Up-B out of shield

[choknater]

I'm not a Mario main by any means, but I recently started picking up this character.

He's really quite fast, he can definitely move and link attacks really well. However I find myself having a lot of trouble approaching... probably something you Mario mains don't really have trouble with at all.

So the thing is, I started trying to develop this defensive style with Mario which worked marginally well... Mario seems to work best when he is attacking, but there are certainly those times where he finds himself on the defensive and has to work his way out of onslaughts.

I find up-B out of shield to be very useful because up-B has some AMAZING priority and pretty good range. It starts up pretty much instantly and usually the opponent isn't able to punish you if they are hit far enough successfully.

There's quite a lot of aerial approaches that I've beaten this with, and it really makes opponents kind of second guess their approaches if I use it often...

G&W's bair (!)
Peach's dair
Marth's fair (spaced incorrectly)
Metaknight's fair
JABS

There's a lot more, but those are some possible useful times to use it.

Do you guys remember HugS' Melee Samus and his up-B out of shield? It seems like a really dumb idea at first, but it can be really rewarding if you use it at just the right times... meaning times when any other shield counter (such as shield grab) wouldn't normally work.

Does anyone use this? It's become pretty staple in my Mario game, but the primary reason I use it is because I really suck at approaching with Mario! It's not like I spam it all the time... but hey, when I can use it, why not get some free damage!

 

[vato_break]

I wish i could do this, thing is i have tap jump off so i can't do this.
>_>

 

[HeroMystic]

I also have tap-jump off. I can't combo effectively without it. It's still doable without it, just slightly slower.

But yes, I do Up-B out of shield. Not as much as I'd like to, but it's still good.

EDIT: Oh right, approaching. Use fireballs and follow them, then attack while the opponent is flinched/distracted.

 

[Geou]

Wow, I never thought of trying this against Peach's dair! That attack is so insanely annoying... thanks for the tip, I'll make sure to give it a shot. ^_^

When approaching though, simply spacing your B-Airs or running at them and doing a U-Air in front of them and landing behind them usually works well.

 

[vato_break]

Now we need a list of things mario's up CAN'T go through....
heromystic start working XD

 

[choknater]

you kids need to learn how to uair and utilt with tap jump on LOL

 

[Steel]

I read somewhere mario's up b has invincibility frames. Is that true?

If it is, you people should be abusing this move and have tap jump ON. Marth's up b is invincible on the first 5 frames which is why it's so amazingly awesomely broken.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

I'm not really a fan of having tap jump on, to be doing all that OOS Upb. I just wait untill the move right up on me then UpB. It usually outprioritizes it. GW's Bair, Ike's annoying jab combo, and Marth's dancing blade at times even.. You are left slightly open after you use it at times, might as well wait till they pretty high up so they go a ways while you bounce back from using it.

I use it quite often. Comes out very quick, good priority. Very easy to connect with, so you almost always get every hit in. Gives out decent damage even. At times I find myself using it out of the blue when i'm underneath the opponet on battlefield. It's a quick and unexpected move., If you abuse it (Wisely of course) It messes up you're opponets mindset, because you've been connecting with that. While leaving you open for landing Uairs, maybe even a few Bairs if you're back turned and he dodges to quickly. Punish him fairly easy.

Mario's best played in a very smooth fashion. All his moves just glide together.

 

[choknater]

Yeah, I'm just saying it's a fast and high priority option out of shield if Mario actually IS getting attacked.

This is just an interesting option I found.

If you don't like tap jump, that's just your preference. It has its benefits and it has its limitations.

Anyway, I do like up-B's knockback... It's enough for Mario to not be punished as long as it connects, usually.

Missing a counter attack is the player's own fault.

 

[Oblique]

Up-B out of shield is not very helpful the move almost never kills, unlike Marth's. I don't use it cuz i have tap jump off.

 

[A2ZOMG]

**** you choknator, I've been the guy who's been telling EVERYONE to Up-B out of shield. You sure as hell better give me credit now. I demand cookies.

I read somewhere mario's up b has invincibility frames. Is that true?

If it is, you people should be abusing this move and have tap jump ON. Marth's up b is invincible on the first 5 frames which is why it's so amazingly awesomely broken.

It has invul frames on startup so says Teh_spammerer, as he beat Bowser's Firebreath with it out of shield. I have also discovered that it can beat the Mach Tornado, and boss says he's done this a number of times. On Battlefield, Up-angled Up-B can land on top platform. I bet that this attack is really good against ZSS's 1 frame Jab too.

Up-B out of shield is really good. It's somewhat unsafe, but used intelligently along with fireball camping, it can make Mario annoyingly hard to approach.

 

[Matador]

Yeah, A2ZOMG made a thread about this a few weeks back telling us about the invincibility frames near the beginning of the attack. The knockback at the end and the more horizontal angle makes it about as useful as Marth's, just not really as a KO move.

The main approaches with Mario are:

SH Dair - Mainly because of the priority. Lasts longer than a spotdodge, autocancels, and you can DI out of grab range behind them if they begin blocking it. Outprioritizes a pretty good number of projectiles as well.

SH/Full jump fireball -> w/e - I usually follow this up with a grab or SH Nair but it really depends on the situation. If you read your opponent well, and know that reflex leads them to usually put up their shield after the fireball hitstun, grab or space an Fsmash if you think they'll drop the shield before it hits. If they sidestep, punish the ending lag. Just remember to follow behind the fireball so that you can be there to take advantage of the hitstun. Generally the safest approach.

Space an aerial - All of Mario's aerials autocancel (Fair fullhopped) and most can be done twice in one SH. Space a Bair out of shieldgrab range and follow up with a jab -> grab/Dsmash. There's a little creativity involved, but you generally find out which aerials you want to rely on and feel safer with. Remember that Mario's stutterstepped Fsmash has ridiculous range itself, just don't use when it's needed fresh.

 

[Matt07]

Eh, I usually don't like to Up B, mainly because if I screw up, I will get severly punished. But I should start trying to implement this in my meta-game.

Hmm...not to get too off topic, but does Mario's up B have the strongest stage spike in the game? Like I've K.O'd people at 0% before . Also if you know your not going to grab the edge, and still have your Cape left, go for it and use up B, I did like a 'sacrifical K.O' type thing.

 

[HeroMystic]

I prefer having Tap Jump off. My fingers are too shaky, and if I'm in an adrenaline rush, the discipline to tilt the analog stick is completely gone. Having tap jump on is not an option for me at all.

I can afford to lose an OOS tactic for better offensive ability, which is far more important.

Now we need a list of things mario's up CAN'T go through....
heromystic start working XD

I'm too lazy. =|

 

[Matador]

I prefer having Tap Jump off. My fingers are too shaky, and if I'm in an adrenaline rush, the discipline to tilt the analog stick is completely gone. Having tap jump on is not an option for me at all.

I can afford to lose an OOS tactic for better offensive ability, which is far more important.

vs MK or G&W, you may need to rethink that. Especially if they're scrubby.

 

[HeroMystic]

I've beaten scrubby MKs and G&W before. I just punish and out-think them faster than they do.

And I've never fought great MKs and G&W's before, so we'll have to see on that one. =/

 

[GHNeko]

Woo. Another OOS tactic I need to master into second nature. Gotta do it with marth, and now Mario. Great. At least I can do better against MKs now. :D

Also, Tap Jump ON ftw. Learn2meleecontrols

 

[choknater]

Well then, I give credit to A2ZOMG for supporting this tactic before me.

I only just barely started using Mario, and I just noticed that this move would be useful in that situation.

 

[ThatGuy]

I have tap jump off because it's much more useful for DI. With Brawl's reduced hitstun, trying to Smash DI WILL result in me using my second jump for absolutely no reason. At least I could get away with it in Melee because I would get comboed into hard hits .

 

[BoTastic!]

Guys, you can still use this techinque with the tap jump off.

Tap the jump button while sheilding then immediately push up B. Its takes a lot more skill than with the tap jump on actually.. But its a lot harder.

 

[Matador]

Guys, you can still use this techinque with the tap jump off.

Tap the jump button while sheilding then immediately push up B. Its takes a lot more skill than with the tap jump on actually.. But its a lot harder.

Can you still do it during MK's tornado or G&W's Bair with tapjump on?

 

[HeroMystic]

As long as it's doable I'll practice with it, cause I totally suck *** with Mario with tap jump on.

Learn2meleecontrols

It was also easier in Melee, because the controls were more stiff. Brawl's controls are a lot more sensitive, which is why I magically lose my 2nd jumps when recovering.

 

[BoTastic!]

Can you still do it during MK's tornado or G&W's Bair with tapjump on?

hmm probably so. I can execute OOS Up B with tap jump. I'll have to do some testing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can you still do it during MK's tornado or G&W's Bair with tapjump on?

Yes, I'm pretty sure you can do that since quite frankly, you're able to let go of the shield and get ***** by those attacks.

However Up-Bing out of shield just cancels the shield and makes you Up-B immediately if you do it right. In ideal scenario, you will be in invul frames before the next hit of those attacks connects and then your hitbox will come out.

The way you do it with Tap Jump off is holding Up and then quickly pressing Jump then B.

 

[HeroMystic]

The way you do it with Tap Jump off is holding Up and then quickly pressing Jump then B.

^This.

Best way to do it is set one of the shoulder buttons to Jump, hopefully the one you don't use to shield with. That's what I got right now and it's much much much better than using the ****able tap jump.

 

[PKNintendo]

DID YOU KNOW!

That Mario's Up B (similar to Luigi's)

has a sweet spot. Use it up Close and it does more damage.

 

[hippiedude92]

I read somewhere mario's up b has invincibility frames. Is that true?

If it is, you people should be abusing this move and have tap jump ON. Marth's up b is invincible on the first 5 frames which is why it's so amazingly awesomely broken.

Marios defensive game is top notch. And yesh it does have the frames like marth's OOS dolphin slash. I just don't see why most mario mains don't use it at all.


Oh use fireballs as approachs. Basically a staple of marios approach g ame.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

UpB Oos should be used a lot more often. I only see Marth, Bowser and DK doing it really often ... but there are other characters, who could make great use of it...MK, GnW, Samus...Mario is surely one of them...

 

[BoTastic!]

I faced samus who did Up B OOS. Its very annoying. It migt do well with peach too.

 

[Big Red]

Or you could set l to jump. Up B OOS is really easy that way.

But I prefer tap jump on so meh...

 

[Genos]

Why do you need to jump before you up B out of shield? Is it faster that way?

 

[HeroMystic]

If you let go of shield, there's a bit of lag due to the animation.

If you jump and Up-B in unision, there's no lag between switch from shield to Up-B at all.

 

[Genos]

Oh, I'll have to try that out then.

 

[choknater]

i'm glad this thread has gotten some good feedback

OOS up b really deserves some apprecation as a mario tactic, i think it can potentially increase his defensive capability to control a match more

he has like, a freaking SUPER FAST, high priority, high range up-b which is why its really good!

 

[iMichael]

Hi Choknater....HI CHOKNATER!!! HEY! CHOKNATER!!!! HELLO CHOKNATER!!!! SUP CHOKNATER!!! ^_^

 

[BoTastic!]

I started using it and it is very very useful. Seriously guys, you need to implement this in your strategy.

 

[HeroMystic]

I hear ya. I used this against a DDD and it made the match really close (****ing U-tilt killed me), but it made him scared to approach me without going for the grab.

Use it and Abuse it.

 

[choknater]

Hi Choknater....HI CHOKNATER!!! HEY! CHOKNATER!!!! HELLO CHOKNATER!!!! SUP CHOKNATER!!! ^_^

LMAO sup dude

 

[Fatmanonice]

I only use it to get edgeguarders off my back or if there's a platform above. From how I see it, it's a lot like Ike's aether, Peach's power bomb, or Link's spin attack, you miss or if your opponent shield's it's pretty much a free hit with any attack.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I only use it to get edgeguarders off my back or if there's a platform above. From how I see it, it's a lot like Ike's aether, Peach's power bomb, or Link's spin attack, you miss or if your opponent shield's it's pretty much a free hit with any attack.

Honestly, this is where I tell you to learn 2 space.

Really, this should be the kind of thing where you should learn the range of this attack and don't use it if you know your opponent isn't in that range. What this attack does is limit the angles from which your opponent can safely approach your from. Pretty much anything right next to you, upwards at a 45% angle, or directly above you isn't safe from this tactic.

What also is nice is nicking your opponent with a reverse Up-B and then landing on a platform like on BF. It doesn't do much damage, but because it's a hit, it stuns your opponent, and counts towards diminishing returns.