Unraveling Timeline Shenannigans

[FirestormNeos]

Playing Pokemon XD, I started to imagine what a crossover between all of the core (remakes instead of originals) and side series (ie the orre games) would look like story-wise. Part of that involves figuring out what everyone's age is to eachother. Here are a few things that have me in a snag:

1) I don't know whether ORAS+FRLG takes place at the same time as Colosseum or XD
2) I don't know how many years it is between DPPt+HGSS and BW
3) I don't know how many years it is between B2W2 and XY

I was wondering how one would go about deducing what the answers to these questions might be. Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's some more confusion for ya.

ORAS and XY are actually a different continuity from the third to fifth gen games. Specifically one where the King of the Poke-Franks magical nuke lead to the discovery of Mega Evoluion and Team Magma/Aqua were smart enough to grab the correct orb. So there's three different time-lines.

Original Timeline: Pokemon are still so ill-understood there really is only 250 of them and no-one knew Pokemon came from eggs. Watch Pokemon Origins and see how different the world it presents feels to the one we know now.
Advanced Timeline: Pokemon have been around for a while, are known to come from eggs (look at the difference in Elm's dialogue from the original Gold/Silver to the Remakes [from EGGS? That's new! to All that Taros Honkey for an egg?])
Mega Timeline: People discovered you can harvest infinity energy from Pokemon and use special stone to temporarily Mega Evolve them.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Here's some more confusion for ya.

ORAS and XY are actually a different continuity from the third to fifth gen games. Specifically one where the King of the Poke-Franks magical nuke lead to the discovery of Mega Evoluion and Team Magma/Aqua were smart enough to grab the correct orb. So there's three different time-lines.

Original Timeline: Pokemon are still so ill-understood there really is only 250 of them and no-one knew Pokemon came from eggs. Watch Pokemon Origins and see how different the world it presents feels to the one we know now.
Advanced Timeline: Pokemon have been around for a while, are known to come from eggs (look at the difference in Elm's dialogue from the original Gold/Silver to the Remakes [from EGGS? That's new! to All that Taros Honkey for an egg?])
Mega Timeline: People discovered you can harvest infinity energy from Pokemon and use special stone to temporarily Mega Evolve them.

"Borrowed" from this Bulbapedia page:

A male Pokémon Breeder in the Magenta Plaza Pokémon Center mentions Team Plasma "making news a while back in the Unova region".

You sure Gens 4 and 5 aren't canon in the Mega timeline?

 

[Firus]

"Borrowed" from this Bulbapedia page:

You sure Gens 4 and 5 aren't canon in the Mega timeline?

It's technically possible for Unova to exist in that timeline without the events that we have witnessed in Unova existing in that timeline. After all, Hoenn exists in two separate timelines. It doesn't necessarily make sense to assume that that's referencing a second, as-of-yet unseen Unova with no other evidence, but I don't think the existence of that mention deconfirms anything.

Also, when we (in theory) get remakes for gen 4 and 5, I assume Megas will exist there, and those will therefore logically be the canon existence of those events within this timeline. Though I'm unsure what that would mean for HG/SS, as I would imagine we won't be getting second remakes of gen 2, at least not for a while.

 

[finalark]

From what I can tell, @ Guybrush20X6 seems to have the right idea. From what I remember about the various narratives we have three different continuities:

* Original continuity: The concept of Pokemon seems to be relatively new, real-world places are name dropped, scientists are constantly discovering new things about these portable abominations. This is RBY/GS timeline, when Elm looses his ****ing mind over an egg. Interestingly, this timeline is the most science oriented of the three, foregoing the mysticism explored in later games. Technically, RS (but not E) could probably fit somewhere in here. Probably going something like this: RBY -> GSC ->RS. I feel like most of the oddities about this timeline is due to Game Freak not fully knowing what direction they wanted to take the series.

* Advanced continuity: Cribbing the name that Guybrush coined, this seems to contain RSE through BW2, with FRLG and HGSS replacing the original gen 1 and 2 games. In this timeline, Pokemon have been around longer than humans have, the legionaries are closer to gods than super powerful Pokemon (although you could argue that GSC started this trend) and human society has been built entirely around Pokemon, creatures that we very thoroughly understand. Not only that, but references to real world places are almost non-existent, establishing the Pokemon world as being its own thing rather than an alternate version of Earth.

* Mega continuity: The one started in XY. Aside from setting the events of gen 3 some time after XY, thus making RSE non-canon, there's no reason why FRLG, HGSS, DPP and BW/BW2 couldn't fit in with this timeline. It would probably go something like this: FRLG -> HGSS DPP <->BW/BW2 (these two are basically interchangeable) -> XY -> ORAS. The reason why I say this is because in XY Mega Evolution is a new thing, and in ORAS characters are still exploring the possibilities and origins of the phenomenon.

 

[FirestormNeos]

From what I can tell, @ Guybrush20X6 seems to have the right idea. From what I remember about the various narratives we have three different continuities:

* Original continuity: The concept of Pokemon seems to be relatively new, real-world places are name dropped, scientists are constantly discovering new things about these portable abominations. This is RBY/GS timeline, when Elm looses his ****ing mind over an egg. Interestingly, this timeline is the most science oriented of the three, foregoing the mysticism explored in later games. Technically, RS (but not E) could probably fit somewhere in here. Probably going something like this: RBY -> GSC ->RS. I feel like most of the oddities about this timeline is due to Game Freak not fully knowing what direction they wanted to take the series.

* Advanced continuity: Cribbing the name that Guybrush coined, this seems to contain RSE through BW2, with FRLG and HGSS replacing the original gen 1 and 2 games. In this timeline, Pokemon have been around longer than humans have, the legionaries are closer to gods than super powerful Pokemon (although you could argue that GSC started this trend) and human society has been built entirely around Pokemon, creatures that we very thoroughly understand. Not only that, but references to real world places are almost non-existent, establishing the Pokemon world as being its own thing rather than an alternate version of Earth.

* Mega continuity: The one started in XY. Aside from setting the events of gen 3 some time after XY, thus making RSE non-canon, there's no reason why FRLG, HGSS, DPP and BW/BW2 couldn't fit in with this timeline. It would probably go something like this: FRLG -> HGSS DPP <->BW/BW2 (these two are basically interchangeable) -> XY -> ORAS. The reason why I say this is because in XY Mega Evolution is a new thing, and in ORAS characters are still exploring the possibilities and origins of the phenomenon.

Thank you for clarifying.

So, that brings me back to my original question: assuming Coli, XD, FRLG, HGSS, PPPT, and BW/BW2 fit in with XY and ORAS in the Mega Timeline, when would everything fit?

 

[finalark]

Thank you for clarifying.

So, that brings me back to my original question: assuming Coli, XD, FRLG, HGSS, PPPT, and BW/BW2 fit in with XY and ORAS in the Mega Timeline, when would everything fit?

The events are Coli and XD are so divorced from everything else that's going on in the series that you can pretty much put them wherever you want, only XD has to come after Coli for obvious reasons.

DPP goes after HGSS, since there's an NPC in that game who used to be part of Team Rocket but left to peruse a normal life after they collapsed. BW/BW2 and DDP are ultimately interchangeable, however. Neither game references one another and there's no real reason why one can't happen before the other. Except that in all instances BW2 has to occur after BW because sequel.

So, the mega evo timeline probably looks something like this:

FRLG -> HGSS -> DPPT -> BW -> BW2 -> X/Y -> ORAS

Again, Coli and XD can be placed wherever you want. I'd like to think of them in their own separate continuity.

 

[FirestormNeos]

The events are Coli and XD are so divorced from everything else that's going on in the series that you can pretty much put them wherever you want, only XD has to come after Coli for obvious reasons.

DPP goes after HGSS, since there's an NPC in that game who used to be part of Team Rocket but left to peruse a normal life after they collapsed. BW/BW2 and DDP are ultimately interchangeable, however. Neither game references one another and there's no real reason why one can't happen before the other. Except that in all instances BW2 has to occur after BW because sequel.

So, the mega evo timeline probably looks something like this:

FRLG -> HGSS -> DPPT -> BW -> BW2 -> X/Y -> ORAS

Again, Coli and XD can be placed wherever you want. I'd like to think of them in their own separate continuity.

A Team Plasma Grunt in BW1 mentions Team Galactic failing for the same reasons as Team Rocket, so I'd suspect it takes place after.

According to one of the Plasma Grunts in N's Castle, "Team Galactic and Team Rocket drew too much attention to themselves. That's why their plans were thwarted."

Also, this was taken from the Icirrus City page:

The lone Team Rocket Grunt who stole the Machine Part from the Kanto Power Plant in Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal, HeartGold, and SoulSilver is revealed to live here, as he can be found in a house with his wife and son that can only be accessed during the winter. He says that while he had planned to revive Team Rocket, soon after returning home he fell in love and then married. His wife gives away a RageCandyBar, and says that RageCandyBars bring the family together, like his teammates from his old job.

In Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, the house is inhabited by a couple consisting of a former Team Magma Grunt and a former Team Aqua Grunt.

Was this what you meant by DPPt's reference to a former Team Rocket Member? Also, I distinctly recognize there being a couple between Team Aqua and Magma from ORAS. Wouldn't that put ORAS before BW2? Heck, a model of a then-unfinished Royal Unova can be found at the Oceanic Museum.