Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Avokha]

A good Robin will easily prove the character's mid-tier chops any day of the week, they DO have potential. They're just too gimmicky and scattered to get their **** together for high tier. Durability limits options, the command grab is worthless, your range is kinda meh, etc etc. That said, when you play a Robin that KNOWS their character, they can give you a special kind of hell in a lot of MU's. Slow characters and characters weaker to projectiles in general get skinned by Robin, thus there's no way they could be considered low tier. They're a viable counterpick in too many MU's. Ganon for example loses the Robin MU pretty noticeably.

Robin is one of the more technical zoners, you can't just spam B and win exchanges in neutral. Robin is kind of like a bizarre mix of Ness, a sword character and Samus.

As a solo Robin main, I find this post truly enlightened. Enjoy your like

 

[Arthur97]

Might be boring, but if we're getting RE, Chris all the way. His pummel can be the boulder punch!

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I don't care for a very large majority of popular character picks nowadays. Smash's roster is so bloody big already, adding even more non-Nintendo franchises to the mix just sounds overwhelming. In fact I'd rather the roster get some fat trimmed before people start rapid-firing all this new stuff in.

 

[The DanMan051]

In direct opposition of the above It's painfully ironic that legitimately major and well-known characters in modern gaming get ignored or outright mocked by much of the Smash community while comparatively obscure picks get propped up to no end, invariably leading to disappointment when those obscure characters don't make it in.

Conversely, any more recent character gets written off as soulless marketing; ignoring any gameplay factors and instead wasting time trying to gatekeep/assign labels.

I'd think Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta, Joker, and most likely Erdrick would've taught people by now what to expect out of DLC-- yet the speculation chamber is obsessed with everything but what's right in front of them.

It's almost poetic, really.

 

[Arthur97]

In direct opposition of the above It's painfully ironic that legitimately major and well-known characters in modern gaming get ignored or outright mocked by much of the Smash community while comparatively obscure picks get propped up to no end, invariably leading to disappointment when those obscure characters don't make it in.

Conversely, any more recent character gets written off as soulless marketing; ignoring any gameplay factors and instead wasting time trying to gatekeep/assign labels.

I'd think Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta, Joker, and most likely Erdrick would've taught people by now what to expect out of DLC-- yet the speculation chamber is obsessed with everything but what's right in front of them.

It's almost poetic, really.

You mean to expect shameless marketing? I think most of us do.

Seriously, the idea is to stop having Smash lose its identity.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

Who tf is Erdrick?

 

[Deleted member]

In direct opposition of the above It's painfully ironic that legitimately major and well-known characters in modern gaming get ignored or outright mocked by much of the Smash community while comparatively obscure picks get propped up to no end, invariably leading to disappointment when those obscure characters don't make it in.

Conversely, any more recent character gets written off as soulless marketing; ignoring any gameplay factors and instead wasting time trying to gatekeep/assign labels.

I'd think Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta, Joker, and most likely Erdrick would've taught people by now what to expect out of DLC-- yet the speculation chamber is obsessed with everything but what's right in front of them.

It's almost poetic, really.

I find it strange as well honestly, but what can you do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Different tastes for different people and some people find attachment to characters they grew up with, and in some cases is just that a few people also like to keep the series a bit more Nintendo focused or have some really strange checklists about what type of characters they want to join Smash.

A lot of the times it is also a sense of community and involvement with a character that is popular with the community in general. Plus some other times is just that people get interested in some of these franchises by seeing them praised by personalities they like. Which can be good when it leads to people discover a new series (a few have been saved from being forgotten) and bad when it leads to bandwagoning in opinions of games people haven't tried. In the worst cases, a few great games can be seen as overrated and dismissed which is something that sadly happens a lot with FFVII.

It it difficult to say as well given that people forget that Sakurai is from another generation, country and culture that is quite different from most people browsing Smashboards or the community in general. So his vision of what characters are important or what characters he would like to see in drastically changes a lot. One point that osby brought in another thread is that people like to downplay on Erdrick a lot since they don't know him but propose characters that are probably equally or more obscure to the general public which is hilarious.

When you put it into perspective, nor Joker nor Bayo come from relatively big franchises (Ultimate pretty much outsold the Persona subseries and Bayonetta series already) but they are good additions nonetheless and people should feel more confident regarding some of the smaller series chances. At the same time, people shouldn't also look into the community choices as 100% guaranteed considering polls can be deceptive (I feel that the characters and series added in Ultimate had good standings in the actual ballot).

There are quite a lot of inconic franchises not only from Japan but from the West that sadly don't get enough love like: Dig Dug, Resident Evil in general, Tomb Raider (which was a cultural phenomenon back in the 90s and still continues), Gordon Freeman, Crash and Spyro, Arthur from Ghosts and Goblins, Monster Hunter, Ezio or AC in general, SNK in general, Dark Souls, and I can go on and on and on. I hope one day people can speculate more about these series in the context of Smash.

 

[Arthur97]

I find it strange as well honestly, but what can you do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Different tastes for different people and some people find attachment to characters they grew up with, and in some cases is just that a few people also like to keep the series a bit more Nintendo focused or have some really strange checklists about what type of characters they want to join Smash.

A lot of the times it is also a sense of community and involvement with a character that is popular with the community in general. Plus some other times is just that people get interested in some of these franchises by seeing them praised by personalities they like. Which can be good when it leads to people discover a new series (a few have been saved from being forgotten) and bad when it leads to bandwagoning in opinions of games people haven't tried. In the worst cases, a few great games can be seen as overrated and dismissed which is something that sadly happens a lot with FFVII.

It it difficult to say as well given that people forget that Sakurai is from another generation, country and culture that is quite different from most people browsing Smashboards or the community in general. So his vision of what characters are important or what characters he would like to see in drastically changes a lot. One point that osby brought in another thread is that people like to downplay on Erdrick a lot since they don't know him but propose characters that are probably equally or more obscure to the general public which is hilarious.

When you put it into perspective, nor Joker nor Bayo come from relatively big franchises (Ultimate pretty much outsold the Persona subseries and Bayonetta series already) but they are good additions nonetheless and people should feel more confident regarding some of the smaller series chances. At the same time, people shouldn't also look into the community choices as 100% guaranteed considering polls can be deceptive (I feel that the characters and series added in Ultimate had goo standings in the actual ballot).

There are quite a lot of inconic franchises not only from Japan but from the West that sadly don't get enough love like: Dig Dug, Resident Evil in general, Tomb Raider (which was a cultural phenomenon back in the 90s and still continues), Gordon Freeman, Crash and Spyro, Arthur from Ghosts and Goblins, Monster Hunter, Ezio or AC in general, SNK in general, Dark Souls, and I can go on and on and on. I hope one day people can speculate more about these series in the context of Smash.

Okay, but what defines good? You are talking as if you are objectively right and these smaller third parties are a good idea. You are no more right than those that oppose these entries.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, but what defines good? You are talking as if you are objectively right and these smaller third parties are a good idea. You are no more right than those that oppose these entries.

I'm saying that a lot of these franchises give flavor to smash, and that it just means that people should be more confident when talking about them as they demonstrate that size doesn't really matter to get in. I think that these are good additions considering both series have good story with Nintendo (SMT more than Persona in the case of Joker), are character types that are quite unique even when compared to other third-parties, and they can bring something really cool gameplay wise. Plus if we're going to complain about characters coming from small series, a lot of the fanbase favorites here don't really have much ground to stand on.

 

[Wiinner159]

To add to the this character thing, personally I don't really care who gets in anymore. I got who I wanted and quite frankly am just content seeing some new faces around. Piranha Plant was hilarious to me on announcement and I quite enjoy it's inclusion and while at the time I hadn't even played his game, Joker I was at least interested to see how he'd play (still waiting on that unfortunately). Sure I can say I'd prefer one character getting in over another but at this point it's like picking ice cream flavors for me, one you may like better than the rest but at the end of the day they're all pretty good, or at least have some aspect to them that you can enjoy.

 

[Xelrog]

You mean to expect shameless marketing? I think most of us do.

Seriously, the idea is to stop having Smash lose its identity.

The identity of Smash is as the greatest video game crossover in history. The fact that it was only Nintendo characters was always an unwanted limitation, not an ideal. It was something that was once forced by licensing issues and a lack of corporate cooperation. Limiting the game to Nintendo characters was at no point a conscious artistic choice. It was something we settled for, for lack of what was out of reach.

 

[Arthur97]

I'm saying that a lot of these franchises give flavor to smash, and that it just means that people should be more confident when talking about them as they demonstrate that size doesn't really matter to get in. I think that these are good additions considering both series have good story with Nintendo (SMT more than Persona in the case of Joker), are character types that are quite unique even when compared to other third-parties, and they can bring something really cool gameplay wise. Plus if we're going to complain about characters coming from small series, a lot of the fanbase favorites here don't really have much ground to stand on.

Small Nintendo series.

The identity of Smash is as the greatest video game crossover in history. The fact that it was only Nintendo characters was always an unwanted limitation, not an ideal. It was something that was once forced by licensing issues and a lack of corporate cooperation. Limiting the game to Nintendo characters was at no point a conscious artistic choice. It was something we settled for, for lack of what was out of reach.

That was never the intent. You think 64 or Melee was meant to be a great video game crossover? Or even Brawl? For crying out loud, base 4 had the third parties very much segregated. To say it was always the intent to be gaming all stars is just plain ignorant.

 

[Xelrog]

You think 64 or Melee was meant to be a great video game crossover?

I'm more saying that that's why people bought it and that's why people continue to enjoy it. It's what the fans expect, and Nintendo knows it.

Ryu is not in Smash to sell Street Fighter. Ryu is in Smash so that people can see Ryu fight Mario.

 

[Arthur97]

I'm more saying that that's why people bought it and that's why people continue to enjoy it. It's what the fans expect, and Nintendo knows it.

Ryu is not in Smash to sell Street Fighter. Ryu is in Smash so that people can see Ryu fight Mario.

Ryu is probably here cause Sakurai wanted him.

 

[Deleted member]

Small Nintendo series.

That was never the intent. You think 64 or Melee was meant to be a great video game crossover? Or even Brawl? For crying out loud, base 4 had the third parties very much segregated. To say it was always the intent to be gaming all stars is just plain ignorant.

Only thing I can say to you is that things change. Its a shame that not every series from Nintendo can be represented, I would personally would love more Xenoblade but also love the new characters they add from third party series. Cloud was pretty much an impossible dream, given that I always wanted to see Cloud and Link fight each other.

 

[The DanMan051]

You think 64 or Melee was meant to be a great video game crossover?

64 was a minimilstic passion project and Melee had a rushed development (and both Sonic and Snake would've debuted there if it hadn't been rushed).

Smash is a big crossover and people like that; Nintendo got all their classic A-listers out of the way in Melee, so expanding with more recent characters and 3rd parties only makes sense.

To say it was always the intent to be gaming all stars is just plain ignorant.

That doesn't really matter at this point because Sakurai explicitly said that's what it is during Smash 4's DLC support.

Small Nintendo series.

What 1st party series getting regular physical releases doesn't have a character already?
There's an ebb and flow; some series fall by the wayside, others gain popularity, and yet others take their place.
10 years ago Golden Sun was getting a new game, FE was super niche, Metroid was still (pardon the pun) in it's prime, and Xenoblade only existed as "Monado: Sword of Creation" and wouldn't be out in Japan for another year.

Now? Golden Sun hasn't had a game since Dark Dawn, FE is a new profitmaker for Nintendo, Metroid has only had a spinoff and remake with a new mainline installment sitting around in development hell, Xenoblade is an established series with 3 games to it's name, and we've got the sudden explosion of Splatoon.

Adding 3rd party characters gets more people interested/excited and gets more money for Nintendo, pretty much as a rule of thumb-- it's a win-win. And characters being added to promote upcoming games isn't the end of the world and shouldn't be your primary reason for disliking them.

It's amazing that the game that added Ridley and K. Rool is still catching **** for it's roster and is being accused of losing it's identity. ...Almost like the fandom is fickle and not even worth listening to; the vocal minority gets thrown a steak and complains that isn't a 9-course meal with all their preferred side dishes.



Anyways, unpopular opinion meta edition: with the amount of discussion and debate that's gone on in this thread, it's pretty well moved away from it's initial purpose and would be better posited as such-- a discussion/debate thread.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I didn't mean for my statement to start a chain .-. was just stating my unpopular opinion for the thread. I try to keep my expectations realistic in spite of that.

 

[osby]

You mean to expect shameless marketing? I think most of us do.

Seriously, the idea is to stop having Smash lose its identity.

Smash's identity is being a shameless marketing ploy, though. That's why we had nice franchises like Mother along with giants like Pokemon and Super Mario.

 

[Idon]

Smash's identity is being a shameless marketing ploy, though. That's why we had nice franchises like Mother along with giants like Pokemon and Super Mario.

Mother was still relevant up till Brawl. Now games like GnW or IC or DH definitely weren't.

 

[Deleted member]

Not necessarily about Ultimate, but I think Melee looks far worse then Brawl does.

 

[Arthur97]

I mean, yeah, graphically, Melee is really old. I also don't like how stiff the animations look.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

One could argue that in terms of competitive viability, Brawl is the worst, due to how heavily imbalanced its roster balancing is (Meta Knight is too good, while Ganondorf is too atrocious). And of course, stale-move negation in Brawl is awful, since it really hurts the fighters who have very limited KO move options, and is even involved with infinite chain-grabs for certain match-ups.

I can't say much about Ultimate's competitive viability though, since future updates are still to come.

 

[osby]

One could argue that in terms of competitive viability, Brawl is the worst, due to how heavily imbalanced its roster balancing is (Meta Knight is too good, while Ganondorf is too atrocious). And of course, stale-move negation in Brawl is awful, since it really hurts the fighters who have very limited KO move options, and is even involved with infinite chain-grabs for certain match-ups.

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion by any means.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't think this is an unpopular opinion by any means.

It's not? Well, at least it's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that.

 

[The DanMan051]

I didn't mean for my statement to start a chain .-. was just stating my unpopular opinion for the thread. I try to keep my expectations realistic in spite of that.

It's fine; I was just being cheeky and pointing out how what I was about to say was almost the inverse of what you were saying.

 

[TheDuke54]

You're allowed to post your opinion here, it's cool bro. I don't care for a lot of the line-ups either. Not everyone is going to like who makes it in or doesn't. I'd like to see Banjo Kazooie in, because that was my favorite game of my childhood, but chances of him getting in are super slim.

 

[Xelrog]

I'd like to see Banjo Kazooie in, because that was my favorite game of my childhood, but chances of him getting in are super slim.

Why do you think that? I would say he's one of the most likely candidates. He's actually a relevant character to video game history with huge fan demand, not an obscure nobody from a Nintendo game five people have played.

I think Doom Marine, Crash, Spyro, Steve, Banjo or Master Chief (equally likely) are all in extremely good spots in terms of odds of getting in. They have fan demand and major historical significance. The only thing Banjo's lacking compared to the rest is promotional value, unless Micro is sitting on another Banjo game under everyone's noses.

 

[The DanMan051]

Why do you think that? I would say he's one of the most likely candidates. He's actually a relevant character to video game history with huge fan demand, not an obscure nobody from a Nintendo game five people have played.

I think Doom Marine, Crash, Spyro, Steve, Banjo or Master Chief (equally likely) are all in extremely good spots in terms of odds of getting in. They have fan demand and major historical significance. The only thing Banjo's lacking compared to the rest is promotional value, unless Micro is sitting on another Banjo game under everyone's noses.

The difference between Banjo and the characters you've listed is that he has nothing remotely recent to his name short of being bundled in a port collection (at least Crash and Spyro got full remakes) while he also faces direct competition from two characters within the same company (with the Chief being thoroughly deconfirmed already via the Franchise Director back shortly after Ultimate launched).
The only way I see Banjo getting in is if MS are planning on reviving the property (which, with their developer shopping spree and the next generation on the horizon, isn't impossible); but that's conjecture versus hard facts. The most likely MS character, using what we know, is Steve.

 

[Just a random scrub]

I think Doom Marine, Crash, Spyro, Steve, Banjo or Master Chief (equally likely) are all in extremely good spots in terms of odds of getting in.

Didn't Master Chief get deconfirmed a while back?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

There have been a few occasions where I've heard people asking for Cuphead to be in Smash Bros.. A highly unrealistic chance, considering the drastic art style differences between the two games.

 

[Idon]

Didn't Master Chief get deconfirmed a while back?

Yeah, a director or whatever said no go.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

I feel like Impa would play too similiarily to Shiek. I wouldn't mind Tingle lol, he'd probably be a gag/joke fighter and that'd be fun to mess with. Even if he does creep me out a little.

Also they made PiranahPlant a figther, so maybe they could throw in some underling from Zelda.

Whenever I read about "x character would play too similarly to y character" I actually see "x character is *themed* too similarly to y character". There is absolutely no reason to assume that every ninja-archetype would play the same as Shiek. Greninja is literally in this game. Impa could feasibly be completely different in every way aside from themes and certain visuals. Not saying she would be, but I hope my point got across. Looking similar or being based around a similar character background really doesn't have to dictate a moveset being the same. Sakurai also promised no echo fighters as part of the main DLC (though I admit there might be bonus echo fighters anyways).

 

[UserKev]

Why do you think that? I would say he's one of the most likely candidates. He's actually a relevant character to video game history with huge fan demand, not an obscure nobody from a Nintendo game five people have played.

I think Doom Marine, Crash, Spyro, Steve, Banjo or Master Chief (equally likely) are all in extremely good spots in terms of odds of getting in. They have fan demand and major historical significance. The only thing Banjo's lacking compared to the rest is promotional value, unless Micro is sitting on another Banjo game under everyone's noses.

Spyro's odds are in Crash's favor. He actually has a port to Nintendo Switch that FEELS legit and was timed on point. The Spyro Reignited trilogy still won't increase Spyro's likeliness.

 

[Dee Dude]

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind Incineroar returning for Smash 6.

Whether I liked his inclusion of not, I can’t see him as the kinda character to get cut since he has such a fun and unique play style.

 

[TheDuke54]

Impa is a shiekah who taught Zelda to become Shiek. I feel they would just take the lazy approach and make her a clone instead of really giving her attention.

 

[Opossum]

He's actually a relevant character to video game history with huge fan demand, not an obscure nobody from a Nintendo game five people have played.

Excuse me, but I'll have you know that at least six people have played Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., so Henry Fleming is a borderline shoo-in.

Honestly I'm just really happy it got a remix. Such a shame so few people played that game.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Impa is a shiekah who taught Zelda to become Shiek. I feel they would just take the lazy approach and make her a clone instead of really giving her attention.

I don't think anything they've done in the last two games has been lazy outside of clones, which are meant to be lazy as a way to save time.

 

[Arthur97]

I don't think anything they've done in the last two games has been lazy outside of clones, which are meant to be lazy as a way to save time.

Reusing voice and announcer clips?

 

[TheDuke54]

What about Snake's codec? All of them are just reused. Even Sonic's one still has Brawl mentioned in it. You know they could had at least clipped the Brawl bit out of the voice over, but they didn't even bother to do that.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

Reusing voice and announcer clips?

I mean, yeah, but come on. I meant things that affect gameplay.