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Unpopular opinion: Yoshi is not high tier. Evidence inside.

The Wall

You PC Bro?!
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Zefwano
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Kill confirm off of grab is already a thing when you're at less than 60 dmg. Above that rage causes down throw to send too high anyways regardless of opponent DI.

Other kill confirms include getting the opponent off stage and reading a 2 frame with a stage spike or fair. Reading recovery in general (imagine characters like fox with linear 1-2 options). Catching unsafe moves with quick kill setups, such as jab 1 after perfect shielding something. Landing an egg when at a mediocre distance can lead to fair spike, up air kill, nair or back air kill depending on stage positioning.

Really Yoshi has a lot to work with, I think the main problem stems from having so many different options and having to choose on the fly rather than certain characters with 1-2 bread and butters that require a lot less thinking.
 

DJlive

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
79
Kill confirm off of grab is already a thing when you're at less than 60 dmg. Above that rage causes down throw to send too high anyways regardless of opponent DI.

Other kill confirms include getting the opponent off stage and reading a 2 frame with a stage spike or fair. Reading recovery in general (imagine characters like fox with linear 1-2 options). Catching unsafe moves with quick kill setups, such as jab 1 after perfect shielding something. Landing an egg when at a mediocre distance can lead to fair spike, up air kill, nair or back air kill depending on stage positioning.

Really Yoshi has a lot to work with, I think the main problem stems from having so many different options and having to choose on the fly rather than certain characters with 1-2 bread and butters that require a lot less thinking.
What are the grab kill confirms that we have?

But I agree. Yoshi is a character of creativity and knowing what is the best follow-up given any situation. It's a strength that makes us not accessible and less consistent. But it should also make us less predictable and more annoying. That said, when all of our options are known to us and when to use it, we might be the Fox of Melee.
 

Cat8752

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
115
Edgeguarding Fox should be no problem but unfortunately for us, most characters' recoveries aren't as bad as his. Covering recovery options with egg effectively is something more Yoshis should do/improve at doing.
 

Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Lack of kill setups just makes him harder to use. Plenty of top players use characyers with lack of kill set ups and do good.

I think Yoshi is mid or low tier as of now but I think hes good enough to be top tier. Reminder he cant really be comboed.

Fair nair and up air are safe on sheild if you know how to space good (which isnt really hard).
Yoshi has so many kill setups. There are so many back air setups. Basically up tilt . If they air dodge your back air kills . If they dontup air will. egg lay into down b kills also. I don't think he is top tier but, definitely good.
 

YoHeKing

Smash Master
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Yoshi has so many kill setups. There are so many back air setups. Basically up tilt . If they air dodge your back air kills . If they dontup air will. egg lay into down b kills also. I don't think he is top tier but, definitely good.
I know he has kill setups and most of those aren't true kill setups. Up tilt up air is a true combo even if they mash air dodge.
 

Matt11111

Semi-Casual Modest Scrub
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There isn't really a certain way to play Yoshi, I hear that people differ a lot on playstyles with him. Do you want to main Yoshi or anything?
Heck no. I literally cannot do well with Yoshi.
 

Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Heck no. I literally cannot do well with Yoshi.
Yoshi is more about setups and "combos". The combos are mostly reads though. You need to use an egg I would say about every 5 seconds to be optimal even more in a lot of situations. If you are struggling with damage just use dair and nair. Also grab> puumel> grab realease> Jab, jab> dash attack can be good.
 

Matt11111

Semi-Casual Modest Scrub
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Mat11111
Yoshi is more about setups and "combos". The combos are mostly reads though. You need to use an egg I would say about every 5 seconds to be optimal even more in a lot of situations. If you are struggling with damage just use dair and nair. Also grab> puumel> grab realease> Jab, jab> dash attack can be good.
Thanks for the tips. I'll try him again this weekend.
 

AAA Battery

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
73
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The thing is, all top tiers have things that are mostly safe on block or pose an HIGH risk on block (i mean, higher risk than killing at 130%+ in average).

Rosalina is mostly safe on block with most of his luma moves + grab.
I stopped reading when you addressed Rosalina as "he".
 

Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Thanks for the tips. I'll try him again this weekend.
Also bro. This goes over all combos including character weight. It is very useful to someone starting out. Just practice B reversing with yoshi. B reverse is very good in a lot of ways. Egg throwing is one of your fancy moves that took me 3 months to functionally utilize. You gotta be patient. Pick a character and just play for a long time. You will be surprised. Threads like the below one can speed the process up though.
http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-combos-traps-and-kill-setups.435754/
 

Mythzotick

Smash Journeyman
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SKY1ice
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One thing that I love about Yoshi in this game is that sometimes I feel like I can autopilot as him due to how much freedom I have and being able to afford making a lot of mistakes. He's got insane aerial mobility, he's floaty but heavy so he can't get comboed as well and won't die anytime soon compared to lighter characters, and can dish out a tremendous amount of damage.

If Yoshi had just ONE throw that was really good or a much better grab, he would be a lot more scary and "possibly" be one of the best characters in the game. He's already a good character, but because of how unorthodox he is and how difficult he "can" be compared to easy pick up and play characters that have a lot of jank to them on top of having a couple of flaws is why Yoshi isn't as popular on a top/high level and doesn't get the results he should get.
 

Pixel_

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
881
Maybe Yoshi's grab release should just be +3 frames for a guaranteed jab
 

Zmac122

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
One thing that I love about Yoshi in this game is that sometimes I feel like I can autopilot as him due to how much freedom I have and being able to afford making a lot of mistakes. He's got insane aerial mobility, he's floaty but heavy so he can't get comboed as well and won't die anytime soon compared to lighter characters, and can dish out a tremendous amount of damage.

If Yoshi had just ONE throw that was really good or a much better grab, he would be a lot more scary and "possibly" be one of the best characters in the game. He's already a good character, but because of how unorthodox he is and how difficult he "can" be compared to easy pick up and play characters that have a lot of jank to them on top of having a couple of flaws is why Yoshi isn't as popular on a top/high level and doesn't get the results he should get.
I agree 100 percent. I feel like when I play yoshi most of my damage is from nair. Which is not garunteed. If you gave yoshi a grab combo he would be so good, but that would never happen. Like even a 50/50 grab would be nice.
 
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