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UnderUsed Metagame Guide

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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They first tried Gallade, Raikou, and Froslass for testing...and Gallade was voted out of UU for good.

Honchkrow went along with him.

This was before the ducks (Cresselia and Porygon Z) were dropped.

-Terywj
 

SilentVerse

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Okay, should I wait until the voting ends before I finish up the offensive threats? I'm a bit busy today working on my upper req summaries, and we don't have long before voting. It would be more convienient to do it all at once than having to revise it again after I finish it.

Also, here's my current positions on the suspects:

Dugtrio-UU. The only reason why it was nominated was because of bandwagons. It's not very powerful and can be dealt with by equipped Shed Shell onto some things.

Moltres-Closer to UU than BL. Stealth Rock really cripples it, and it becomes rather easy to defeat if you can keep the rocks up. It is ridiculously powerful though, so I'm unsure on it's placement as of now.

Raikou-BL?- It's pretty powerful with LO, and it's bulky enough most of the time. Registeel, one of its "hard counters" can't switch in much, so Raikou can just wear away at it.

Froslass-Closer to BL than UU-It sets up spikes easily and can act as a spinblocker as well. It's also really fast for UU, and when abused, makes it incredibly easy to get spikes up.

Froslass is probably getting the boot, Raikou and Moltres might, and Dugtrio is most likely not.
 

UltiMario

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Raikou will probably be voted BL to save it another suspect test in which it is going to be voted BL in anyways when it gets Aura Sphere.

:V
 

Terywj [태리]

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Yeah Silent Verse, just go ahead and work with the current UU Suspect stuff first before working on the offensive threats. It makes more sense.

I believe Raikou, Froslass and Moltres should be BL, while Dugtrio stays in UU. Although it'll probably end up being Raikou and Moltres in BL and Froslass and Dugtrio in UU.

Raikou will probably be voted BL to save it another suspect test in which it is going to be voted BL in anyways when it gets Aura Sphere.

:V
Also, this.

-Terywj
 

Gates

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I agree with Raikou being BL (Aura Sphere means that he has very few remaining counters in UU) but I disagree with Froslass and Moltres.

Most of the reason Moltres is able to thrive in UU is because Rapid Spinners are many and are quite good in the metagame so there are plenty of openings to set up rocks. Indeed, UU has 7 viable spinners in the metagame (though I guess you could say Hitmonlee doesn't count since it's rarely used as a spinner which would make it 6) and only 5 spinblocking ghosts (though you could make the argument that nobody really uses Drifblim and take it down to 4). Compare this to OU - 3 Rapid Spinners (arguably 2 since Tentacruel is rarely used) and 7 spinblockers (arguably 6 since Dusknoir is rarely used). The ratios of viable spinners to viable spinblockers in both formats are:

OU - 2:6
UU - 6:4

So as you can see, rocks will be on the field a much larger percentage of the time in OU than in UU. Another disadvantage Moltres has is his low defenses and his weaknesses besides rock. Now, 90/90/85 is by no means bad but when talking about OU and not UU you start to wonder if it really is good enough. In addition to that, Moltres' water weakness means that it can get wrecked by a multitude of OU mainstays like Gyarados, Vaporeon, Suicune, Starmie, Latias, etc. the list goes on. His electric weakness is a bane too as it makes him weak to Gengar, Jolteon, Zapdos, and Rotom-A, the latter of whom is one of the most common pokemon in the format. And really, any attack that he doesn't resist can deal a lot of damage to him since he'll be losing half his health by switching in anyway.

Now you could say "Gates, blah blah Yanmega is BL blah blah more weaknesses blah blah worse stats blah blah why didn't you vote for him blah blah". The key difference between the two of them is that Yanmega has two of the best abilities in the game - Speed Boost and Tinted Lens. Speed Boost means that after 6 turns Yanmega will outspeed everything without a priority move. Tinted Lens effectively negates the opponent's resistances to his otherwise weak bug attacks. Both of these help it immensely in sweeping. Does Moltres have such an ability? No. Instead he has Pressure, a move reserved mostly for pokemon who can stall well. However, Moltres cannot stall well unless he has Wish support or something, so his ability is counter-intuitive to what he usually wants to do: sweep.

Likewise, Froslass is not quite BL material either. Yes, she's one of the best leads in UU. Yes, she can also spinblock and serve as a non-lead supporter. Yes, she's decently bulky by UU standards. But by OU standards she is not a great lead by any means. For starters, her gameplan would generally be to Taunt, set up spikes, and then Destiny Bond something to get rid of it and herself. This is reasonable but consider the outcome. Spikes is best when you have multiple layers of it on the field. Spikes can't hit as many pokemon in OU as Stealth Rock so in order to spread the same amount of damage you must compensate with several layers of it. Froslass will need 4 turns total before she can die - 1 to taunt their lead, 3 to set up spikes fully. Given most of the common OU leads, she won't be able to do this.

Azelf - Outspeeds her, 'nuff said.
Swampert - She can beat Swampert, I'll give her that much. A smart Swampert player won't sacrifice his chance to set up rocks ever just to KO a suicide lead and they'll probably switch out and try to mingdame the Froslass player into making a mistake to give them an opening.
Metagross - Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, can live after Taunt, let's move on.
Aerodactyl - See Azelf. Also has STAB rock attacks.
Jirachi - Can trick her into Taunt or kill her outright with Iron Head.
Infernape - Fire Blast right off the bat helps. I guess you could say that Infernape doesn't have that much of an advantage though.
Roserade - One of the only OU leads Froslass beats outright. She outspeeds it and can kill it easily with Ice Beam.
Tyranitar - The best Froslass counter of anything that doesn't outspeed her imo. Sets up a sandstorm immediately to break Focus Sash and can OHKO with Crunch, Pursuit, Payback, etc. Unlike Hippowdon, TTar is not weak to Ice, giving him a slight edge there.
Ninjask - Who cares.
Gliscor - 4x Ice weakness...yeah...

So out of the top 9 OU leads (Ninjask doesn't count), 5 of them beat her outright, including 4 of the top 5 leads. On top of that, she doesn't set up a very relevant entry hazard and she takes a long time to set it up fully and is useless after that. Not the best supportive pokemon imo.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the topic. Just saying that it's not likely Moltres and Froslass will move up to BL anytime soon.
 

Wave⁂

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Froslass was moved up to OU once, I believe, but then dropped down shortly after.

I should also note that Drifblim will be re-joining NU soon.
 

supermarth64

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Looks like Gates made a whole post forgetting that BL is a ban tier for UU like ubers is a ban tier for OU. How a UU Pokemon performs in OU doesn't affect their BL tiering, only how they perform in UU.
 

Gates

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Oh yeah, I guess I totally ignored that fact lol.

I still don't think they're dominant enough to be bannable in UU. Without Froslass, Ambipom will become the dominant lead and then there'll be a bunch of crap about banning him.
 

Deathfox30

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I can help with hail, my UU hail has topped the Smogon UU board twice. Snover ftw
 

mood4food77

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he'd be gay

he's basically the only reason that hail is viable in OU and that Abomasnow was banned in UU play
 

Wave⁂

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Ooooh, that'd be cool. He'd make a beastly tank with Super Fang / Ice Beam / Protect / Toxic.
 

Wave⁂

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Oh wait, Protect is stupid without Ice Body healing. Brine wins.
 

Gates

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I don't really think this needs to be moved to the Battle Tower. It's more of a fun discussion than a serious one. HAHA IGNORE THIS.
 

Gates

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WHOOPS WRONG THREAD.

Yeah my bad, this totally needs to go in Battle Tower.

I thought this was the "Why doesn't X pokemon have Y attack?" thread.
 

rockem7

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This is probably said somewhere on this thread already, but what is a decent counter for Registeel? My team can manage, but it doesn't have a definite answer to him.
 

SilentVerse

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This is probably said somewhere on this thread already, but what is a decent counter for Registeel? My team can manage, but it doesn't have a definite answer to him.
Dugtrio traps and kills Regi, though it can't switch in. Donphan works pretty well too unless said Registeel has Toxic, and Donphan can Rapid Spin any Rocks that Regi sets up.
 

Gates

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The biggest question of what counters Registeel depends a lot on whether it has Toxic of Thunder Wave. Steelix is immune to both and has STAB Earthquake, so you could always try to do a stall war with him.
 

Terywj [태리]

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The biggest question of what counters Registeel depends a lot on whether it has Toxic of Thunder Wave. Steelix is immune to both and has STAB Earthquake, so you could always try to do a stall war with him.
And then all you need to worry about is Curse / Iron Defense Registeel with Seismic Toss / Earthquake.
 

Gates

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Seismic Toss and Earthquake can both be beaten by Mismaguis, and if she subs up she's immune to TWave and Toxic too.
 

Deathfox30

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Try these sets:


Steelix @ Leftovers
Sassy
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD (Spe IV: 0)

~ Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball
~ Earthquake
~ Roar

It sets up Stealth Rocks on Registeel and threatens it with STAB Earthquake or roaring it away when it tries to Curse.


Mismagius @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe

~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Taunt
~ Pain Split
~ Shadow Ball

This just requires prediction. If you think he will Thunder Wave or Stealth Rock, Taunt, if you think he will Iron Head, use Will-O-Wisp. This sets works great in stall. <3


Hitmonlee @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Limber
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

~ Close Combat
~ Mach Punch
~ Stone Edge/Sucker Punch
~ Earthquake

You can use Adamant or Jolly. Jolly 252 Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee's Close Combat vs 252/0 Careful Registeel: (92.86% - 109.34%) Guaranteed KO with Stealth Rocks. Hitmonlee is also immune to paralysis. Not the best option, but a decent one. At the least, it will dent whatever they switch in. Edit: Nevermind, it has less than a 1% chance to survive. .-.

@ Terywj

My team was: Snover, Milotic, Nidoqueen, Walrein, Froslass, Clefable

Not as good as it could be, but I got bored with it and stopped making changes. I think it peaked at like a little over 1700. I might post the full team sometime, if you want. :3
 
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