UnderUsed Metagame Guide

[Terywj [태리]]

'Cuz the banner totally matches the theme.

I said I would attempt to work on a public guide on the UU Metagame for the Pokemon Center, and I would like your help. I know Silent Verse and Megalomaniac play UU extensively, so we can work together. We can basically work our way through this, adding to the OP as we go along. Discussions / suggestions are welcome.

Outline
I. Introduction
- BL Pokemon

II. Leads
- Examples
- How to deal

III. Sweepers
- Examples
- How to deal

IV. Walls
- Examples
- How to deal

V. Supporters
- Examples
- How to deal

VI. Threat List
- Offensive Threats
- Defensive Threats

VII. Playstyles
- HeavyOffense
- BulkyOffense
- Balance
- Stall
- Weather Teams

• Rain

• Sun

• Hail

• Sandstorm

VIII. Theme Teams
- Rain
- Sun
- Hail
- Sandstorm

IX. Conclusion

-Terywj

 

[mood4food77]

i know everything

so i'll help

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So I'll take ideas for how we'll present the actual guide, like an outline or something.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

A Guide to Making UU Teams:

Fire-type (Moltres or Arcanine)
Water-type (Milotic or Azumarill)
Venasaur
Registeel
Mismagius
Raikou

 

[SilentVerse]

I can easily do a threat list for this, with a listing of the top 10 threats offensively, defensively, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have many ideas for the format as of now.

@annoying: fail. lrn2UU.

Sadly, quite a few UU teams admittedly do have a basic structure like that, though after talking with the people at the top of the leaderboard, it has become apparent that just using a simple team like that doesn't allow you to do really well in UU. It might get you further, but generally, you're going to need a good idea of what you're doing, and the concept has to actually be good, such as, basing a sweep around a solid core of Moltres, Froslass, and Swellow.

 

[mood4food77]

welll

it would be accurate to say that:
Froslass/Uxie/Ambipom are what you're probably going to lead with

 

[Wave⁂]

@annoying: fail. lrn2UU.

I'm working on it >_>

 

[SilentVerse]

welll

it would be accurate to say that:
Froslass/Uxie/Ambipom are what you're probably going to lead with

Generally yes, though depending on what you're actually aiming for (for example- a hail team or a rain team) you can switch the leads around. Omastar leads, Cloyster leads, are arguably better for setting up spikes in Stall team IMO, as ProLass isn't that bulky(though I suppose it reduces the need for another spinblocker).

 

[supermarth64]

UU version of OU competitive battling thing.

Just the mons part.

 

[mood4food77]

i looked at UU leads from Jan 10, those 3 pokes make up 30% of all UU leads

it's quite crazy

 

[SilentVerse]

The thing is, they're easily the best leads in UU. You don't really have much that compares.

 

[supermarth64]

That and they sorta Rock-Paper-Scissors each other.

Ambipom > Froslass > Uxie > Ambipom.

It's arguable though.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I was really hoping that lass would get bumped up to BL...

In UU I think the general team-building philosophy is to just make sure to either base your team around status or setup. Water/Fire/Grass is nice defensively and gives you a nice cookie-cutter team (yeah arcanine/venusaur/azumarill is boring but it's still relatively solid by itself). Pokemon like DDFeraligatr and Altaria aren't as common as they used to be but entire teams can be built around eliminating the other team's milotic/venusaur/tangrowth/registeel/etc. as UU has a less balanced set of checks to setup pokemon, especially speed boosters. Some particularly threatening ones including things like mismagius, moltres, feraligatr, and even stuff like absol (who can only really be stopped by will-o-wisp, technitop, and hariyama). I think a nice, unique UU team would go like this:

Ambipom (fake out lead)
Absol (SD/sucker punch/psycho cut/baton pass)
Venusaur (scarfed revenger)
Spiritomb (burn support, defensive resttalker)
Chansey (rocks+special wall)
Blaziken (comes in on will-o-wisp for free, benefits greatly from +2 atk, can be mixed or pure physical)

 

[SilentVerse]

You know, I think I faced one just like that the other day...

The problem with UU is that basically, you have a basic layout for your team, for whatever you're team is. For example, Heavy Offense teams are going to revolve around Froslass, Moltres, and probably Swellow. The thing is, Moltres is such a good sweeper that you really can't compare it to other sweepers and is probably the BEST choice for a special sweeper. Froslass is the BEST choice for spiking and etc. Due to this, it's hard to be "original" in UU because there are so many things that you have to specify a niche to use. Water/Fire/Grass is indeed a great combination, hence why it's used on so many teams, and is considered the best defensive combination in UU. But due to this, many people have used a variant of this combo, and is used so much that it has almost become necessary to have at least two of them on your team.

Also, not to be nit picky, but all those Pokes you mentioned can get beat by Haze Milotic (which was used a lot during the Duck season, and I doubt it has died off too much yet).

 

[mood4food77]

i was about to ask why espeon doesn't get much use in UU then i realized alakazam is there

 

[kirbyraeg]

You know, I think I faced one just like that the other day...

The problem with UU is that basically, you have a basic layout for your team, for whatever you're team is. For example, Heavy Offense teams are going to revolve around Froslass, Moltres, and probably Swellow. The thing is, Moltres is such a good sweeper that you really can't compare it to other sweepers and is probably the BEST choice for a special sweeper. Froslass is the BEST choice for spiking and etc. Due to this, it's hard to be "original" in UU because there are so many things that you have to specify a niche to use. Water/Fire/Grass is indeed a great combination, hence why it's used on so many teams, and is considered the best defensive combination in UU. But due to this, many people have used a variant of this combo, and is used so much that it has almost become necessary to have at least two of them on your team.

Also, not to be nit picky, but all those Pokes you mentioned can get beat by Haze Milotic (which was used a lot during the Duck season, and I doubt it has died off too much yet).

The thing with the stuff I posted is that it would waltz through a lot of UU relatively safely. Milotic is a solid check to pretty much everything on here, but it would get overwhelmed by either a +2 Blaziken (if setup goes optimally and blaziken gets a free switch-in on will-o-wisp) or Venusaur's Leaf Storm from something like a mixed scarf set. I'm more of a theorymon specialist though, frankly. Playing ladder games just to see if you can make a good team isn't as fun as thinking about possibilities for fun/unusual stuff to test That specific team example is more just about showing a different side of UU than basically what annoying posted, the cookie-cutter UU team.

You're definitely right about how there are pokemon in UU that are by far the best fits for their roles though. It's present to a degree in OU as well, mostly in the way of sweepers (why wouldn't you use a lucario/mence/whatever), but OU is a whole different ballgame.

 

[Gates]

A Guide to Making UU Teams:

Fire-type (Moltres or Arcanine)
Water-type (Milotic or Azumarill)
Venasaur
Registeel
Mismagius
Raikou

I lol'd.

welll

it would be accurate to say that:
Froslass/Uxie/Ambipom are what you're probably going to lead with

Yeah pretty much. Once in a while you'll see something random like Moltres or Hariyama but those are pretty rare.

Also, what's everyone's opinion on a Rapid Spin Hitmonlee?

 

[mood4food77]

hitmontop is better
technician and better defenses make it a much better spinner
it's not that hitmonlee is bad, just hitmontop spins better

 

[Pink Reaper]

There's been a striking lack of Hitmontop in this thread.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, when I started getting back into UU I was really surprised how much more of a difference spinners make than in OU.

So this thread needs moar Hitmontop, Donphan, Blastoise, Cloyster, etc.

 

[SilentVerse]

The thing with the stuff I posted is that it would waltz through a lot of UU relatively safely. Milotic is a solid check to pretty much everything on here, but it would get overwhelmed by either a +2 Blaziken (if setup goes optimally and blaziken gets a free switch-in on will-o-wisp) or Venusaur's Leaf Storm from something like a mixed scarf set. I'm more of a theorymon specialist though, frankly. Playing ladder games just to see if you can make a good team isn't as fun as thinking about possibilities for fun/unusual stuff to test That specific team example is more just about showing a different side of UU than basically what annoying posted, the cookie-cutter UU team.

You're definitely right about how there are pokemon in UU that are by far the best fits for their roles though. It's present to a degree in OU as well, mostly in the way of sweepers (why wouldn't you use a lucario/mence/whatever), but OU is a whole different ballgame.

Yeah, I'll admit that Blaziken could easily rip through Milotic after a SD, which is why SD Blaziken is such a threat, despite not being particularly common. About the Scarf Venusaur though, Milotic still can actually survive if it is specially defensive (which people should be running in fear of Moltres), and just Recover stall. Heh, it's nice to see someone theorymonning in UU though. I usually just test stuff on the ladder, so I don't usually think up too many new things.

@Spinner Discussion: Rapid Spin Hitmonlee could work I guess, but as mood4food said, Hitmontop would generally outclass it, boasting higher defenses, and Intimidate.

Froslass is a huge reason for a spinner in UU, as it can easily get spikes up without you being able to spin them away, and when spikes get up, prepared to get swept by Moltres, Blaziken, Raikou, and UU's plethora of powerful sweepers. I would say Hitmontop and Donphan are probably the best spinners from experience, as they can both be ridiculously bulky physically. Cloyster is a little lackluster as a spinner due to it's SR weakness, though it makes a great spike lead, and Blastoise is sorta a combination of a spinner and a bulky water, except it doesn't do both jobs as well.

 

[mood4food77]

i thought venasaur ran sword dance and power whip?

 

[SilentVerse]

He's talking about Scarf Venusaur. SD Venusaur is a lot more common though.

 

[kirbyraeg]

The best spinner in UU is kabutops as an anti-lead

OK really though, I'd say hitmontop is the best spinner as he has a nice combination of bulk (especially on the special side) and the ability to also spin while running technitop and becoming a nice offensive force at the same time.

if something like froslass is setting up spikes later in the game though in my opinion it's better to just bring out a pokemon that resists ice that can throw out a powerful hit or set up to deal with whatever comes in (kabutops again can sponge hits and set up rain/SD for itself while definitely scaring off froslass with the threat of stone edge, azumarill can come in and fire off a cb waterfall or put up a sub, relicanth can run rock polish and go for a sweep with LO or lum while scaring it off with head smash, etc.). I know the strategy of dual spinblocking is relatively uncommon, but dual spinning is even more uncommon...but in theory it would work the best (running kabutops as a rapid spin anti-lead and foresight hitmontop to beat dumb crap like spiritomb), then running bulkier pokemon who benefit from not having their health slashed every time they come in like slowbro as well as stuff like moltres/altaria who obviously like not having sr up on the field.

Speaking of that, is this a set idea that might be workable in UU?

Spiritomb @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpAtk
Bold Nature
Calm Mind
Taunt
Rest/Pain Split/Shadow Ball
Dark Pulse/HP Fighting

Taunt would keep you from getting phazed and dealing with switch-ins who would try to set up or taunt you themselves like drapion. With spiritomb's bulk helped by CM, you would be safe to spam taunt expecting a switch or just setting up further or attacking the switch-in. The potential advantage of this is that you can catch a hitmontop as it switches in with taunt, rendering it completely useless. Lack of recovery is a problem, but it could run rest if it needed to. Pain split is secondary, but taunt would force switches and give it time to recover with it. It could also go for coverage and the recovery problem could be fixed by pairing it with a support clefable (or even a bulky drummer to threaten from both the physical and special side) and slowbro to spread paralysis and tank fighting hits. That could be lots of fun =D

Again, haze milotic would be a problem...but only if you didn't taunt it as it switched in. A lot of things that traditionally run toxic (bulky waters, bulky grass types, etc.) would also be directly lured into slowbro's thunder wave, meaning that they would all be easily taunted and set up on/stalled out via pressure so that sounds like a nice theorymon set to me

 

[mood4food77]

i used mindtomb in OU play back in the day, it worked great, but you'll want 2 attacks on there, replace either taunt or pain split (don't use rest, it's not good without sleep talk, this generation hits way too hard to be doing that) with HP fighting, i know it doesn't sound good but shadow ball/dark pulse are not good attacks on their own, they need some help

if you're not using HP fighting, go with dark pulse, it's so a normal type poke can't come in and wall you to hell, if you are, go with shadow ball

 

[SilentVerse]

@Kirbyraeg: I've been finding Dual Blocking more common in UU actually due to Froslass probably wanting a supporting spin-blocker, thanks to its low defenses. But yeah, I agree that throwing something that's threatening against Froslass would probably be the better option instead of a spinner.

That set looks cool, though it would require some prediction on your part (to predict incoming Haze Milotic switches and the like). I might try it out some time.

@mood4food: *coughcrotombcough

Dark Pulse isn't bad as a regular STAB, though it would want some support if there is space. However, with that set, removing a recovery option is a bad idea and getting rid of Taunt removes the purpose of that set, so I would say that you wouldn't need another attacking option.

 

[kirbyraeg]

The big thing to go with that set would just be paralysis support and recovery if you chose to use shadow ball+hp fighting (which is why slowbro+clefable would work great for that). Ensuring that tomb can get the taunt makes the set that much more effective, as choiced attackers that would be able to beat tomb (band azu waterfall is still a guaranteed 2hko) will be dealt with by slowbro, and that's where the mindgames start! Just because I know double edge from CBazu can 2hko slowbro, I'll start leaving tomb in vs. azu and use pain split to scout the attack. If it's double edge anticipating slowbro, I get free recovery and a free taunt/CM on the switch-in. If it's waterfall/another predictive attack, I recover a lot of health still and go to slowbro or clefable, who gets a free thunder wave/cosmic power/whatever. It's a nice bit of synergy as slowbro also resists the stab fire attacks that could also give spiritomb problems just because of their sheer power and clefable has nice special defense and wish to support spiritomb further.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Someone mentioned Alakazam before, and I also see it quite a lot, since Scarf Leads are actually usable, being able to take a Fake Out from Ambipom, and hit back with Psychic.

Froslass gets punished by Trick/Shadow Ball, and Uxie fears Shadow Ball/Signal Beam.

I'd try it out, but I love Ambipom too much.

-Terywj

 

[kirbyraeg]

The other real problem with alakazam is that it can get pursuited by something like drapion who is neutral to all of zam's attacks excepting hp ground which could be run just for that purpose.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

I really don't see Drapion anywhere in UU. Maybe 10 times since I've started playing, but I'd have to look at the usage.

He'd definetly wreck Alakazam though with a safe switch in and Crunch.

 

[SilentVerse]

Drapion is borderline common in UU. I've seen mostly SD variants (which is kinda sad, as a lot of them just attack my Donphan after a SD, even though it's a really stupid option), though Rest Talk is pretty common as well. Drapion was more common during the Duck season I believe, as it could set up on Cress quite easily, though it is indeed still fairly common.

Oh yeah, Registeel is a terrible Thunder Wave abuser. It's sad how many people still use T-wave on it.

 

[Gates]

TWave on Regi isn't to support him, it's to support the rest of the team. But yeah, Toxic would probably be better in most cases now.

And as far as Pursuiting goes, I've been using TrickCB Spiritomb and it's been working quite well for me.

 

[SilentVerse]

No, but seriously. Registeel lures in ground types like Donphan and Dugtrio, who are immune to T-wave. Toxic is better because it actually allows Regi to cripple walls and things that you would have more trouble with. What does T-wave do? It basically just makes bait for Dugtrio. Sure, Toxic still doesn't do much, but you still cripple Dugtrio in a way, unlike with T-wave.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Thunder Wave is used on Registeel to reach the same Togekiss-esque effect in UU: haxing the nonsense out of your opponent until they die or ragequit.

-Terywj

 

[SilentVerse]

The problem with this is that Registeel will draw out stuff like Dugtrio and Donphan, which still resist T-wave. Toxic simply is better due to this, as you can actually break walls with it, whereas T-wave only stops sweepers, which Registeel shouldn't be having much dificulty dealing with anyways.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah, that was basically the flaw of Thunder Wave on Registeel. And I guess in some extremely paranoid cases where the player really wants 100% accuracy, haha.

-Terywj

 

[kirbyraeg]

We can all just agree that registeel gets ***** by grounds, but thunder wave has more overall utility. Regi should run both and just forget about attacking.

Registeel @ Leftovers
252 hp/100 atk/156 def
impish

iron head
thunder wave
toxic
ice punch

yehhhh that set looks dumb. but i think it would work great as an all-purpose counter set...just because chansey can run sr. :D

 

[Terywj [태리]]

OUTLINE

I. Introduction
- BL Pokemon

II. Leads
- Examples
- How to deal

III. Sweepers
- Examples
- How to deal

IV. Walls
- Examples
- How to deal

V. Supporters
- Examples
- How to deal

VI. Threat List
- Offensive Threats
- Defensive Threats

VII. Playstyles
- HeavyOffense
- BulkyOffense
- Balance
- Stall
- Weather Teams

• Rain

• Sun

• Hail

• Sandstorm

VIII. Theme Teams
- Rain
- Sun
- Hail
- Sandstorm

IX. Conclusion

How does that look for starters?

-Terywj

 

[kirbyraeg]

organization looks great, but I'd emphasize UU rain even more than it is already in this guide, especially how to deal with it... People who read this guide won't have much knowledge of the metagame, and getting swept by rain is no fun.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah I was going to mention it. Rain would be the main spotlight of explanation under Weather-themes. What else should I add to the outline?

-Terywj