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Turning low tier characters into competitive fighters! V2

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
Well not a rant but rather a discussion where we put our ideas of how to turn the weak characters into better fighters, with changes in the moveset or their atributes, as well as balancing the stronger ones An example and my new idea. Remember I made a thread like this some time ago? Why not give another shot it was really fun

For Example:

Link

-Regular combo: 4 sword slashes like you can do in Twilight Princess. Also the final one ends with a powerful thrust if you just press A but if you do it quickly he does Illusion Stab.

-Forward Smash: Jump Strike (Twilight Princess Move), he does a fast sidewards slash if the opponent is hit it is paralized a little moment, then a powerful blow agains the ground that unleashes a shockwave. If hit by the shockwave the opponent is knocked backwards, if hit by the sword (the sweetspot) the knockback is huge.

-Forwar Aerial: Link slashes downwards and then kicks frontally and slashes downwards again. The slashes have a spike effect if hits the opponent's head or shoulders.

-Up Aerial: Make a small shockwave around the thrust for coverage and give it more power.

-Down Aerial: (Ending blow) Increase greatily the falling speed but not as much as Toon Link's, with a small shockwave that makes the opponent flinch if they are near but not hit, so he can have more time to recover. If misses the lag is a problem.

Specials Change:

Neutral Special - Subweapon: It can be Gale Boomerang, Hero's Bow (Shots fully charged arrows but with reduced knockback and damage, but increased range) or Bombs. If you press B twice quickly a "shing" sound is heard and Link shines a little. That mean the subweapon changed.

Side Special - Helm Splitter (Twilight Princes Move): Can be charged like Ike's Quick Draw. Link jumps spinning his blade, like a wheel. If charged a little spins once and covers a little horizontal distance, a little more the Master Sword glows golden and link jumps spinning twice covering a greater distance. If fully charged the glow is blue and link spins three times. Opponents caught in this attack are sightly knocked back depending where hit. If hit when the blade goes up they go up, fornt they go backwards and down a meteor smash. However the knock back isn't that great, better as a recovery move or damage builder. Also Link gains super armor when he is midair if he at least charged one stage the attack.

Up Special - Spin Attack: Can be charged like Lucario's Aura Sphere. Up to three stages, first a single spin around with good kncokback, second a double spin unleashing a golden wave that has better damage and knockback, and third a Blue and wider wave with better damge but the same knockback as the second stage. Until he starts spinning Link has super armor. The movement midair depends on how much charged the move was before used. Also when charging Link can move around but very slowly (Like in Ocarina of Time)

Down Special - Mortal Draw (Twilight Princess Move, combined with Back Slice) Counter Move. Link quickly sheaths the Master Sword for a moment and then unsheaths it. If he is attacked when the sword is sheathed he will instantly move behind the opponent and turn around as he unsheathes the Master Sword and deals a powerful blow to the opponent from the back. It has a base damage of 10% but no damage bonus, returns exactly the same damage he should have received, but with better knockback.

Other changes:

-Much faster (As fast as Toon Link and Toon Link is as fast as Marth)
-Higher Jumping (Like Mario's jump height)
-Clawshot miss has much less recovery lag
-Never lowers shield, not when standing, iddling or running, only when taunting, holding something, jumping and attacking, making him very well defended against projectiles.
-Spin Slash charged and Midair deflects projectiles with the energy wave and has good priority.
-Helm Splitter covers his horrid recovery.
-Deals less damage overall.

Well that's to make a change for Link. .



Ganondorf will do later. Have ideas

Captain Falcon same as Ganon
 

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
Yeah that's why I put V2 in the title (Version 2) The other was closed due to inactivity so I restarted it.
 

Shred_kid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
66
Location
Princeton
All you have to do to improve link is fix his recovery and take some lag off of his attacks and you're set.
 

~Cyn~

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
19
Location
San Diego, CA
(imo - puts up fire proof wooden shield)

Ganon requires waaaay more predicting than your average C.Falcon...

Since Forward B seems to be a popular combat... (I think?)

While Falcon has the ability to utilize jab cancels into preferred moves, along with the guts to intercept no matter how far the opponent is knocked back into the air.

in short, one uses alot of mind reading, the other has "balls of steel".

though on the Link thing...
pretty much know your basic stuff (Mind reading, Spacing, and general Link strategies, along with weaknesses) and your good to go...
 

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
That's kind of the definition of spam... repeatedly posting something.
Woah, woah, hey nobody is being offended or anything here. Is on topic and besides people are taking part on it, if I keep doing this when nobody replies would be spamming.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
Woah, woah, hey nobody is being offended or anything here. Is on topic and besides people are taking part on it, if I keep doing this when nobody replies would be spamming.
Quoth the great Wiki:

"Spam is the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums."

Is this needed? Yeah, I didn't think so.
 

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
Quoth the great Wiki:

"Spam is the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums."

Is this needed? Y
With that in mind topics like make your move or almost everything should be closed. Dude, this is to have some fun, we are not bothering anyone here, are we?
 

Skink

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
138
Location
Memphis, TN
-Higher Jumping (Like Mario's jump height)
-Clawshot miss has much less recovery lag
-Never lowers shield, not when standing, iddling or running, only when taunting, holding something, jumping and attacking, making him very well defended against projectiles.
What.

First of all, it's a guy who can't even jump on command compared to a man who's entire persona revolves around jumping. What's wrong with you?

Second off, it's a tether grab, if you could spam it, link would sit there and shoot arrows until he z-aired and then grabbed you. It's fast enough. Compare it to other tether grabs. Zamus's isn't bad and it's slow too.

Third, that shield is obnoxious and good as it is. What makes you think you should get immunity from projectiles? That's not even true to the game.

I like link. I don't support these changes. He needs a better recovery, maybe make spin attack behave like DK up B.
 

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
What.

First of all, it's a guy who can't even jump on command compared to a man who's entire persona revolves around jumping. What's wrong with you?

Second off, it's a tether grab, if you could spam it, link would sit there and shoot arrows until he z-aired and then grabbed you. It's fast enough. Compare it to other tether grabs. Zamus's isn't bad and it's slow too.

Third, that shield is obnoxious and good as it is. What makes you think you should get immunity from projectiles? That's not even true to the game.

I like link. I don't support these changes. He needs a better recovery, maybe make spin attack behave like DK up B.


Well you got a point with jumping, but take in count Mario's Jumps aren't that great (they should be the highests in the game, but are surpassed by fox) Yeah I kind of forgot the Tether part of the Clawshot, so it is good as it is. Well the shield may be bothersome, but projectiles while very helpful aren't the ultimate factor, otherwise guys with reflectors or that can return attacks would be instant winners, so I don't see the huge harm there.

As for the recovery...well that is why I made up the tempest like Helm Splitter.
 

Skink

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
138
Location
Memphis, TN
I guess helm splitter as a horizontal recovery would help a lot, and I like that idea. But I don't really like the idea of giving another character counter. What would you remove for it, anyway? His moves are fairly solid.
 

Rouenne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
85
Well the Quick Draw counter was just...something I would like =P. Maybe it could be replaced with the sub weapon change. Instead of pressing BB you press down B for the sub weapon to change.
 

mariofanpm12

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
997
Location
Louisiana
Link Buffs/Nerfs...

+ Spin Attack gains 25% more altitude in the air
+ Clawshot can Sweetspot edges
+ 10 frames less lag on D-air
+ Gale Boomerang damages foes on its back, but weaker while doing so
+ If Clawshot misses, cut down the lag by half

Mario...

+ F-air always Spikes
+ F-air does 15%
+ N-air does 7-8% after initial hit
+ F-Smash 6-8 frames shorter
+ Slightly more horizontal knockback on B-Throw
+ Slightly more range on N-air and F-Tilt
+ F-Tilt, U-Tilt, and D-Tilt do 9%, 8%, and 6% respectively
+ Fireballs do 6%+
+ FLUDD stays on Mario's back 2 seconds longer
+ Cape does 9% damage
+ Slightly more knockback on D-Smash

Ganondorf

+ U-Tilt Volcano Kick slightly faster (by maybe 10 frames)
+ Running speed equal to Wario, Peach, Snake, Luigi, and Link (they all ahve the same run speed)
+ Jab executes 4 frames faster and has 4 frames less lag
+ F-air doesn't sweetspot, instead always does 17% damage
+ D-air has 8 frames less landing lag
+ Up-B has slightly larger grab radius, does 14-15%, 1.15 percent more knockback
+ All other attacks have 5 frames less start-up lag and 3 frames less end lag
+ Slightly more range on B-air
+ Less knockback on first hit of N-air, more knockback on second hit
+ Slightly higher midair jump


Interesting, no? I'll add more later.
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
I was hoping he would have his parry attack as a counter when I saw they were using his Twilight Princess model. Quick Draw was much more epic though :p

The possibilities they could have done with Link were so awesome but I feel like they really did not want to change him after 2 previous installments of Smash.

I was also hoping for a transformation to Wolf Link, or if not a whenever transformation like Shiek/Zelda or PT, a transformation like Samus/Zamus would have been proper. Using Midna for special attacks the Midna super jumping thing for recovery (I imagine it would work like a tether but instead of grabbing the edge you would leap to the level itself), his normal wolf abilities for his basic A attacks...
Though not the biggest fan of the Wolf Link segments in TP I still think it would have been a nice addition.

To fix his current problems I would just give him a viable recovery really. That's what I think he really needs. A bomb in hand can help but there is still no denying he has as many problems as Olimar, but at least Olimar has more ways to get around his recovery, like purple pikmin, whistle super armor, DI and well placed double jump.
 
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