Turbo controllers - why are they illegal?

[Luigimitsu]

Just wanted to see what the consensus is on turbo controllers, mainly because I know that Melee players do controller mods to make shield dropping, waveshining etc easier. If this stuff is legal in the Melee community, why are turbo controllers banned? (Or are they? I never tried using one at an event). It in no way makes you a better player, it just means you don't have to have situations where it's live or die if you don't mash fast enough.

Mashing with Luigi is ridiculously hard (14x a second), I can only do it by using 2 buttons as B (Y and B) and alternating between them with my thumb. In fact using a turbo controller might be more difficult because in certain situations I'd have to be really fast with turning turbo on before doing down b, but I'll find out when I try it out.

So maybe these controller should be legal considering that they are designed for Smash? I'm going to order one and try it out anyway, it would be amazing to rise with down b without a jump with 100% success rate.

The controller - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Smash-Bros-Controller-Nintendo/dp/B00ND0E604

Inb4 gitgud/learn2mash lol

If this controller is out of the question I'll just stick to my current 2 button method.. I don't know how some of you mash so fast with 1 button, I can't figure out this vibr.ate technique (maybe I need to hit the gym?)

 

[GwJ]

Turbo controllers (and controllers that simulate inputs) allow you to perform inputs not humanly possible. If you need to mash a certain speed, learn to do it.

 

[Luigimitsu]

That doesn't break the game in any way though, and there are no techniques in Smash 4 that require button mashing speeds which aren't humanly possible, Luigi's is just very very tiring and difficult to pull off. Personally I think it should be legal since all that will change is consistency in Luigi players, nothing unfair will happen.

It's not that I don't think I can learn to do it consistently, it's more that I see it as a waste of time/effort and feel like turbo controllers should be legal as they don't do any damage or change the game in an unfair way.

 

[GwJ]

In that case, why not just bind macros to your controller so you don't have to learn to perfect pivot? It's humanly possible, but man is it just a waste of time/effort when a turbo controller can do it for me.

 

[Luigimitsu]

I rarely ever see people actually use perfect pivot though, since it's so difficult to do with 100% consistency on top of actually utilizing it. If they could design a controller to do that, why not? You could actually do "Bidou" more easily with this controller actually because of the extra shoulder button, making perfect pivots easier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH528Pdh1Rk

Although if the supply is short or expensive it would be unfair. However the battle pad is an official controller.

What if I wanted to use this controller because of the shoulder buttons, will it be banned because it has a turbo button on it? If I was to learn this "bidou" technique, I would definitely use this since it has the same button layout as a gamecube controller.

*goes away to test bidou*

 

[atreyujames]

The controller you're pointing out is not an "official" controller. It is a 3rd party controller made by Hori that has a licencing agreement to use nintendo characters. What you might not realize as well is that the controller requires a WiiMote and uses the nunchuck port.

I'm not gonna say don't get one if you want to (hell, I own one as it makes grinding for customs using the Ganondorf Target Blast method possible) but them not being allowed at tournaments is 100% the right choice.

Besides just mashing for moves like the 3 Tornados, it makes mashing out of grabs optimal as well. It wouldn't disrupt any other inputs either because you could map the 4th shoulder button to special. The reason it isn't allowed is because it physically changes the number of inputs necessary in an unfair advantage to the player with the controller. Instead of requiring +10 inputs to complete the desired action all you need to do is press one button. There is no controller mod that is accepted that changes the base number of inputs required for an action, only the ease in which that action is completed.

 

[Luigimitsu]

Well I read "officially licensed" and I thought that means it's pretty much official, just made by a 3rd party company for Nintendo. Yeah, I knew that it acts as a classic controller and plugs into the wiiremote, but people play in tournament with wiiremote control setups already, just gotta make sure you always have charged batteries haha. It's fair enough though if no one agrees with my points, I guess I just have to learn how to mash consistently. Custom unlocking was one of the bonus points of getting this controller for me (even though I'll never use them), but do you have to keep the turbo button held down to use it?

The shoulder buttons are nice as well, but can I even use this controller for that with the turbo button there? Lol, I'd be too tempted to use it. It's nice to be able to shorthop with shoulder buttons, have a Z button that's not awful, and have an extra button as well. I just don't like how A, B, X and Y feel compared to the original controller (and the joysticks).

 

[-ACE-]

There's no official consensus that notching controllers is legal in melee. During the Genesis 3 stream crimson blur said the major TO's he spoke to all wanted it banned. There's a big controversial thread on it in melee discussion (posted by user "Massive"). So the people doing it are only doing because their local TO doesn't care, or they're flying under the radar (the entire movement of notching controllers sort of is/was sadly). I personally think anyone that values an actual competitive setting, believes tournaments should test skill and skill alone, and has given the issue ample thought, should want them banned. But I'm not here to debate.

Turbo? Goodness. No comment.

 

[Luigimitsu]

Interesting, I thought it was generally accepted, so all these people who make these special Melee controller mods are wasting time and peoples money. I even have a notched controller, but it doesn't make much difference with waveshining angles imo since you don't have time to line up with notches when doing the inputs, you have to be pretty fast, it's probably useful for shield dropping though.

My opinion is still the opposite though, I feel like people shouldn't care how inputs are performed. The mental aspect of the game matters much more, and it's not like any custom controller will make you anywhere near Westballz level of techskill. Anyone has the ability to go and make these mods as well.

My mashing is looking promising atm, but there are times where I rely on it and it doesn't work, then it makes me salty lol.

 

[JohnnyB]

There's no official consensus that notching controllers is legal in melee. During the Genesis 3 stream crimson blur said the major TO's he spoke to all wanted it banned. There's a big controversial thread on it in melee discussion (posted by user "Massive"). So the people doing it are only doing because their local TO doesn't care, or they're flying under the radar (the entire movement of notching controllers sort of is/was sadly). I personally think anyone that values an actual competitive setting, believes tournaments should test skill and skill alone, and has given the issue ample thought, should want them banned. But I'm not here to debate.

Turbo? Goodness. No comment.

How would you feel if somebody modded a gc controller to have paddles on the back to use face button inputs? What if it was a mass produced pad and not a mod?

Do you also think removing Springs from shoulder buttons is wrong?

I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything I'm genuinely curious. In many other competitive games, mods and custom controllers are considered acceptable as long as there are no macros, turbo, or anything else that emulates multiple inputs with a single button press. The smash scene seems to take any mods as sacrilege.

 

[Luigimitsu]

How would you feel if somebody modded a gc controller to have paddles on the back to use face button inputs? What if it was a mass produced pad and not a mod?

Do you also think removing Springs from shoulder buttons is wrong?

I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything I'm genuinely curious. In many other competitive games, mods and custom controllers are considered acceptable as long as there are no macros, turbo, or anything else that emulates multiple inputs with a single button press. The smash scene seems to take any mods as sacrilege.

Might as well just say that broken in controllers are also unfair since it's not how the controller came right out of the box right? Lol all jokes aside, it's basically the custom move argument all over again, where it only makes sense to either have them on or off, there's no in between. I suppose turbo could be seen differently, but I don't see why.. they both serve the same purpose, they make an action or technique easier to input, although turbo makes a much bigger impact. The good thing about doing it manually to me is that it's impressive to other players and entertaining to know that someone is mashing that fast lol. It's satisfying to pull it off, but annoying when you fail it during crucial moments.

 

[-ACE-]

How would you feel if somebody modded a gc controller to have paddles on the back to use face button inputs? What if it was a mass produced pad and not a mod?

Do you also think removing Springs from shoulder buttons is wrong?

I'm not trying to be obtuse or anything I'm genuinely curious. In many other competitive games, mods and custom controllers are considered acceptable as long as there are no macros, turbo, or anything else that emulates multiple inputs with a single button press. The smash scene seems to take any mods as sacrilege.

I stated I'm not trying to debate. Find the thread if you're curious.

 

[JohnnyB]

I stated I'm not trying to debate. Find the thread if you're curious.

Yeah I'm not looking for a debate either. I was asking you specifically because you seem to be rational and level headed about it.

I guess I'll just slog my way through that thread =/

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I'm not looking for a debate either. I was asking you specifically because you seem to be rational and level headed about it.

I guess I'll just slog my way through that thread =/

Sorry, I'd be inviting too much opposition and I don't feel like defending my stance so much anymore.

 

[JohnnyB]

Sorry, I'd be inviting too much opposition and I don't feel like defending my stance so much anymore.

It's cool. You were literally the first one to reply to that thread anyway so i got what i wanted.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Brent Bruthaa]

I do think it would be cool to use this controller to use the Luigi Cyclone more easily.
I do own this controller and although this discussion is over, I can tell you a couple of things about it before going to buy one.

With it you can get out of grabs/roots inhumanly fast. That alone is kinda unfair to deal with.
And the thumb sticks on it suck pretty bad. You try to do something and your character does another. After a couple of games I was reaching back for my gamecube controller and only use it again when I feel like a bit of fun.

It has a luigi theme too which is it's plus :D So yeah.

 

[Luigimitsu]

I do think it would be cool to use this controller to use the Luigi Cyclone more easily.
I do own this controller and although this discussion is over, I can tell you a couple of things about it before going to buy one.

With it you can get out of grabs/roots inhumanly fast. That alone is kinda unfair to deal with.
And the thumb sticks on it suck pretty bad. You try to do something and your character does another. After a couple of games I was reaching back for my gamecube controller and only use it again when I feel like a bit of fun.

It has a luigi theme too which is it's plus :D So yeah.

Yeah I'm finding it to be the same, I often get miss inputs with the joysticks or dash when trying to do simple turn arounds. The turbo is really fun though, it's a good way to get a taste of what it's like to be a supreme masher or to just know exactly how high Luigi can go. I guess if you're able to mash successfully with down b, if you do that while getting grabbed it would be just as efficient, maybe I should stop spinning the joystick and do that instead to mash out.

 

[AndreaTheGamer20]

Let me have a word here. A turbo controller is no way cheating or hacking - it doesn't break the game code in any way, it just presses buttons in a super efficient manner or speed, the one that a regular gamer like myself won't be able to do. I may do it one time out of ten, so why waste time on it even? If my turbo controller will do it for me and I can enjoy the game. Why I wasn't sure about macros before is cuz I thought they were hard to program, but the newest generation ones like this one are a piece of cake. With my older turbo ps4 remote, it was literally a rocket science to programm one single macro, I felt fooled, it was like instead of learning how to smash the buttons in my games better, I had to sit down with my comp and program that thing! But after my friend got one and there was no comp or extra app required to assign macros, I immediately ordered one too, and it's amazing to say the least.