Triangle-jumping against marth?

[shuall]

Triangle-jumping (my definition, I think this is right): air-dodging above the ground into the ground, with some time in the air-dodge intangibility state. Looks like a really crappy wavedash.

The downsides are twofold: 1. not as far as a wavedash, and 2. has wd lag, so not as fast as dash dancing. However, the intangibility frames are why I like it. I started originally with triangle-jumping through bad marths trying to edgeguard me with fsmash/shieldbreaker. Eventually, I realized I can also get through their dtilts. I'm using it to feign going in the air for a sh fair over the marth dtilt, but quickly air-dodge throught marth's dtilt and get a jab, etc in. Also, when I notice them sh fairing, I triangle-jump through the first one leaving me right underneath them, so I can cc the second fair (or shield the reflex dair) and get a jab/grab/etc in.

I'm treating it as a spotdodge with variable intangibility time, that also allows for a little bit of spacing, so I would only use it as much as I use a spotdodge (sparingly, with a read), but I feel like it can lead to a lot more.

Obviously fails when the marth starts spacing dtilts/fairs outside triangle-jumping range, but that means they're giving me more space to keep up a blizzard wall.

It feels like this is bad, but I'm willing to keep spamming it until the marths I play really catch on and teach me why where it's bad. Until then, any thoughts?

 

[cupofwater]

I asked Wobbles on stream for marth advice a while ago and this sounds like what he responded with. He seemed to think it was super good and it doesn't seem like something many marths would expect. It might feel like its bad to you because its just a super scrubby wavedash and it certainly seemed bad when Wobbles said it, but I feel like it is a great way to get in on marth.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

There are cases where jump -> AD down and in can let you punish things you can't punishing by rolling or shielding, at least when facing forward. Samus' ftilt is one such example; I haven't done frame-by-frame breakdowns for anything else. Something kind of similar is using downward air-dodges when descending to dodge and potentially punish attempts to punish your landing; it's a very Brawl-esque use of air-dodges that I've applied a good amount with good results.

 

[shuall]

There are cases where jump -> AD down and in can let you punish things you can't punishing by rolling or shielding, at least when facing forward. Samus' ftilt is one such example; I haven't done frame-by-frame breakdowns for anything else. Something kind of similar is using downward air-dodges when descending to dodge and potentially punish attempts to punish your landing; it's a very Brawl-esque use of air-dodges that I've applied a good amount with good results.

I've been thinking of trying it in between samus missiles. I don't know if AD more horizontal towards the samus puts me too close with not enough time to react to a second missile, so AD straight down might give me enough time in between missiles. Something to do after midterms.