Top Qualities of a Good Player

[Alou]

Idea came to me while reading a thread someone else made about how to tell if they are good.

What type of qualities do you think are essential for being good at SSBB?

For me, I like creativity. Seeing someone able to kill another person in a different way is interesting and shows they take the time to find new things in the game.

Discuss?

 

[Andromeda]

Well, it's definately not technical skill.

 

[cwjalex]

The ability to win is the only attribute of a good player.

 

[Shaman]

not so Cwjalex, thats the attribute of an accomplished player,
if i can use an analogy, Snooker players don't really stack up against competitive pool players, but I think no one would argue that a Snooker player is unskilled, they simply apply a different skill set to different ends.

that said, i think this is a dumb topic, no matter what kind of discussion arises, it will all be arbitrary rubbish, and will likely result in someone flaming someone else. please try to think about the consequences of a poor thread before you post it.

 

[SharkAttack]

Evading and Detecting Predictability

Not being predictable. If your opponent knows what your going to do than your going to have a hard time landing and dodging hits. A great player has several different methods of attacking along with dodging based on posisioning. Also, a great player detects their oponents predictable patterns if there are some and then capitalize on their mistakes.

 

[Angewomon]

In my opinion, patience, nerves of steel, sense of improvisation and a bit of luck.

 

[cwjalex]

In my opinion, patience, nerves of steel, sense of improvisation and a bit of luck.

How does "luck" make a player good?

 

[Alou]

How does "luck" make a player good?

It doesn't 'make' them good it 'helps' them be good. I believe that is what he was saying. And luck is always something nice to have.

 

[Gonzoyo]

This is a very silly thread. I agree with unpredictability being a key aspect, however.

 

[mangodurban]

they have to wave dash, l cancel every move, and constantly try to kill people at 20% with either fox's shine, marth f or b air to d air spike, falco down air, or well, thats all there is, constantly trying to gimp, thats what makes a game competitive. Because everyone knows its not competitive if you cant gimp kill everyone you play. That means i have to actually play smash, omg, play smash? i cant spam? what? I cant un even the game by canceling really powerful moves? ahh i suck now. i suck. No wait, brawl suck! yeah thats it, thats why i loose alot now, because brawl sucks, not because ill I know how to do is glitches.

 

[Agent 47]

someone who can perform under pressure and turn bad situations around or tilt the odds in their favor.

 

[Pabs]

Good reflexes, awareness, knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice. An all around smart player is a good player. That should be obvious though, no thread necessary

 

[LouisLeGros]

Having a good RV?

 

[Mew2King]

**** them by a lot

win

use hitboxes well

 

[Doc Chronic]

someone who is able to assess and react to a situation on the fly

 

[Repulse X]

Someone who wins alot more than they lose

 

[rove]

I say just basically having the ability to not get tricked by peoples mind games and overseeing a move before it happens

 

[cwjalex]

dammit rove, now that you edited your post I have to edit mine because it makes no sense now... and now I have to say something else or it's a pointless post...

I guess I'll just repeat my first answer...

The ability to win is the only attribute of a good player....but more specifically...

-being able to change your approach when you keep getting punished for it

-spacing yourself well

-taunting when your opponent does something stupid

 

[Browny]

The ability to win to win is the only attribute of a good player.

I sometimes play as olimar in 1vs1. i spam pikmin and constant smash attacks the entire game, and win pretty much every time. does that make me a good player? hell no. cheap tactics like chain grabbing, spamming and only using the same tier wh*red character like TL or wolf for every single match people play doesnt make them good at all.

perfect example at my uni game club, one guy there wins A LOT as marth and another as snake. They will be hard pressed to lose more than 1 match in a 2 hour session. A new guy joins up, and manages to beat them almost every time AS RANDOM. obviously the new guy is far better than the other 2, but does this make the other 2 still good players? they can still win as other characters but thier skill is severely diminished when the game is slightly changed.

 

[EternalCrusade]

dont be predictable, have good timing, dont camp dont spam =_=, need to have good reaction time...oh and of course, you must recover! O_O

 

[RizardoLawless]

You have to never get hit, and you have to never miss

also camping

 

[cwjalex]

djbrownv,

If you can beat good players while doing those things then yes, it makes you a good player.

Also, your perfect example makes absolutely no sense at all.

EDIT: lol the first time I typed "to win to win"

 

[KevinM]

The only thing i got out of that was DJbrownV is a scrub who baws about people playing to win.

 

[The Executive]

Win. To elaborate, learn and adapt. Do not use a fixed playstyle, because your opponents are not fixed AI loops. Do not fear losing, you have to study someone who's better than you to improve against them, and how better to do that?

 

[Marie_54]

Good players fight for their friends...



Cheap jokes aside-

Unpredictability, finding a use for each move like little technical things that might help, can put up a good defense and still kill a lot and most importantly-

knows what the hell is going on.

 

[zaf]

the traits of a really good player is

predicting the obvious
- if someone is doing the same thing too often a smart player will catch on very fast and counter

style/creativity
-you have to be able to play well and different from everyone else so that you can catch your opponent off guard

mind games
- one of the best examples of a mind game is when i use toon link and smash forward and miss, i usually wait to do the second swipe to lure the opponent in. Next time it happens i might not even do the second swipe. I am always changing up the 2nd swipe on the forward smash to keep my opponent on the edge

overall intelligence of all characters
-someone who knows how characters move. You cant just hop into a battle and not know a single thing about your opponent. best way i practice this is i play on random and use a lot of people so i can know how they play so i can counter them.

H AND D
- haha, heart and determination, when the battle is not in your favor, don't give up and show them who's the real smash champ. whipping out some new moves and just dont give up

these all show the traits of a true champion.

 

[The Executive]

the traits of a really good player is

predicting the obvious
- if someone is doing the same thing too often a smart player will catch on very fast and counter

style/creativity
-you have to be able to play well and different from everyone else so that you can catch your opponent off guard

mind games
- one of the best examples of a mind game is when i use toon link and smash forward and miss, i usually wait to do the second swipe to lure the opponent in. Next time it happens i might not even do the second swipe. I am always changing up the 2nd swipe on the forward smash to keep my opponent on the edge

overall intelligence of all characters
-someone who knows how characters move. You cant just hop into a battle and not know a single thing about your opponent. best way i practice this is i play on random and use a lot of people so i can know how they play so i can counter them.

H AND D
- haha, heart and determination, when the battle is not in your favor, don't give up and show them who's the real smash champ. whipping out some new moves and just dont give up

these all show the traits of a true champion.

The ability to Falcon Punch in real life qualifies you by default.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

**** them by a lot

winl

WoW.. no homo.

Loss.


On that note...


Seeing that there are more there is more than one level to every game in the world..

1st comes the technical skill.. this ALLOWS you to perform combos, and such.. and understanding the concepts and physics of a game.. [occasionally a player (like M2K)] comes along and skews the idea of what tech skill is.. and is basically so blindly technical that even if they had no "mindgames" they would still be capable of winning... [note how good M2K is at Brawl.. a game where Mindgames>Tech Skill...

No Johns.

2nd comes the first level of mindgames.. these allow you to predict EXACTLY where and what your opponent will be doing.. this allows you to predict...

you know what they say.. in a game of chess you've already won if you can see 10 moves ahead in a game... well.... smash is a game of chess [once you have tech skill.. assuming that every "pro" is already technical.. thus mindgames come into play]

3rd step comes to join us now.. this is the Mindgames [within] mindgames.. these are mindgames that are developed after you have gone through steps 1 and 2.. you understand what your opponent is going to do.. but you also assume that you know what you know.. so they do SOMETHING ELSE. The 3rd step is where alot of Semi-Pros hit their "brick wall" so to speak.. they can predict like in step 2, but cannot get past the players that PREDICT THE PREDICTING.

4th and Final step.. Predicting the prediction of the prediction's prediction... Did i lose you?

Excellent..

For example- [assume we are still playing melee due to more Adv techs, ie more options]

A Fox player is approaching a Peach on FD. The Peach notes that the Fox player is experienced and knows that it is quite likely that a chaingrab is coming.. so the Peach player can also assume that the Fox [since he knows the matchup] will probably attempt to camp, and force the Peach to become aggressive... however since the Peach knows the Fox is expecting this, the Peach might decide to pull a turnip.. giving the Peach player options on the approach.. but then the Fox player assumes the Peach player is going to want to approach based on the assumption that the Fox WILL camp so he approaches at a time which he believes the Peach to pulling a turnip.. [the experienced player will listen for controller sounds to justify his timing/feeling of when to approach].

So you see.. Were just went completely full circle.. the Fox still approached the Peach, and is still in contension to be chaingrabbed, but he did it in the assumption that the Peach knew he WOULD camp...

So..

TechSkill-->BasicMindgames-->MindgameMindgames-->MindgameTheMindgame'sMindgame.

Thats basically what makes a professional smasher.

Good Day Sirs.

 

[3transfat]

Good hand eye coordination.
Problem solving skills.
Ability to stay calm.
Asian.
Being particularly lucky.

 

[RyjinX]

Plays well under pressure.
Can adapt to multiple situations(Any matchup)
A bit of luck.

Melee: Pick Marth, Fox, Falco, or Shiek
Brawl: Ike or Marth.

Jokes aside: Ingenuity is also a good quality.

 

[D13]

Ability to adapt to many situations.
Good at predicting.
Can intimidate and psyche out the opponent.

 

[cwjalex]

ChozenOne, m2k is NOT blindly technical. Are you and I even thinking of the same m2k? I don't know how good he is at brawl, but I'm sure he is still very good. The reason he may not seem as good as in melee is because brawl is a much simpler game so that it closes the gap between newbs and pros. It has nothing to do with his lack of mindgames. The fact that he can directly run up to another pro and connect fox's up smash shows he's not all about tech skill.

Comparing smash to chess = crappy comparison

Your whole example of Fox v Peach on FD is over analyzed and ********. Furthermore, I highly doubt listening to the controller sounds will make that much of a difference in regards to timing and feeling.

I'm glad you can so easily disregard the thoughts of a pro smasher's opinion of what makes a good player in favor of your opinions.

 

[Kensou]

David Sirlin, a game designer a tournament player of fighting games already wrote a book about that, maybe some of you already are familiar with it, you can read the book online and many articles about comtetitive play on http://www.sirlin.net

He says these should be the traits of the best player:

• Familiarity with tournaments & Deep knowledge of the game at hand
• Love of the game
• Mental Toughness
• Mental attitude toward winning, losing, improving
• Technical skill (usually dexterity)
• Adaptability
• Knowledge/ability in other games of that genre
• Yomi (ability to read your oponent's mind)
• Appraisal

All of these obviously fall into Smash bros as well.
You can read more about it on his book that he made available online www.sirlin.net/ptw

 

[House M.D.]

don't main yoshi (sorry thread starter, but had to take a jab at my least favorite character. it's a good thread!)

seriously, having experience and knowledge (of what tactics work and when) are two important and time-consuming barriers to climb.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

ChozenOne, m2k is NOT blindly technical. Are you and I even thinking of the same m2k? I don't know how good he is at brawl, but I'm sure he is still very good. The reason he may not seem as good as in melee is because brawl is a much simpler game so that it closes the gap between newbs and pros. It has nothing to do with his lack of mindgames. The fact that he can directly run up to another pro and connect fox's up smash shows he's not all about tech skill.

Comparing smash to chess = crappy comparison

Your whole example of Fox v Peach on FD is over analyzed and ********. Furthermore, I highly doubt listening to the controller sounds will make that much of a difference in regards to timing and feeling.

I'm glad you can so easily disregard the thoughts of a pro smasher's opinion of what makes a good player in favor of your opinions.

Azen is still [probably] the best player on the EastCoast [in regards to smash].. so why can he do it, but M2K is being beaten by far less experienced players?

Also.. you can compare anything to chess... the point of that example was to show that if you know what your opponent is going to do/forcing them to act, you've clearly already won..

And finally... if you were ACTUALLY competitive, and not just a random troll, you would realize that [perhaps not as slow as you read it..] thoughts like that go through, or have gone through pros heads before... experience is important as well.. but that doesn't necessarily make a pro.. it just helps develop tech skill and mindgames.

You sir.. are a fool.

 

[choknater]

Well, it's definately not technical skill.

What ?

 

[cwjalex]

Azen is still [probably] the best player on the EastCoast [in regards to smash].. so why can he do it, but M2K is being beaten by far less experienced players?

Also.. you can compare anything to chess... the point of that example was to show that if you know what your opponent is going to do/forcing them to act, you've clearly already won..

And finally... if you were ACTUALLY competitive, and not just a random troll, you would realize that [perhaps not as slow as you read it..] thoughts like that go through, or have gone through pros heads before... experience is important as well.. but that doesn't necessarily make a pro.. it just helps develop tech skill and mindgames.

You sir.. are a fool.

-If you are talking about Melee, M2K has beaten Azen the last few times they have faced each other in a tournament.

-Also..In smash, knowing what your opponent is going to do/forcing them to act doesn't mean you have "clearly won". Smash, unlike chess, is not turn based and still requires you to be able to physically perform certain actions at a very specific time.

-And finally...I haven't entered a ton of tournaments, but I have entered enough to be placed in the regional power rankings for New England. When I was more competitive I would play with KoreanDJ pretty often. He actually told me the opposite of what you are telling me and that I shouldn't over analyze smash. Seriously man, re-read what you wrote about Fox v Peach.

 

[Tsuteto]

David Sirlin, a game designer a tournament player of fighting games already wrote a book about that, maybe some of you already are familiar with it, you can read the book online and many articles about comtetitive play on http://www.sirlin.net

He says these should be the traits of the best player:

• Familiarity with tournaments & Deep knowledge of the game at hand
• Love of the game
• Mental Toughness
• Mental attitude toward winning, losing, improving
• Technical skill (usually dexterity)
• Adaptability
• Knowledge/ability in other games of that genre
• Yomi (ability to read your oponent's mind)
• Appraisal

All of these obviously fall into Smash bros as well.
You can read more about it on his book that he made available online www.sirlin.net/ptw

Sirlin - Good stuff has been written by him. If people haven't already, read them if you have the time (I still need too XD)

You sir.. are a fool.

I've debated with cwjalex before in another thread on about the same topic. He's not a fool. A little stubborn, but does for the better part know what he's talking about. Readying this last page between you and him, you're losing the battle.



My opinion - Every game has a different quality set for them to be considered good. Those who can't perform technical moves can make up for it in timing. Those who suck in timing make up in mind games. Those who suck at mind games... yeah, don't have a counter for that. But in the end, Brawl still does not have its set set yet. In due time it will, but we're riding too much from the melee when only about half of that can be applied.

Aaaaaand I'm going to stop there, cause it's 2 am, and my thoughts aren't fully coherent to me. That was, enough of, anyway. I'll read more tomorrow.

Oh, and cwj, have there been other games you've been in? Because even from the other thread I swear I've seen your name elsewhere.

 

[theJollity]

Ability to adapt to many situations.
Good at predicting.
Can intimidate and psyche out the opponent.

I agree, especially on "good at predicting." That can actually act as an umbrella for the other two you mentioned: being able to predict an opponents moves gives you an advantage which you can use to intimidate opponents, forcing them to play differently and lose their pattern.

 

[Tsuteto]

Or, you could, you know, where something insane. Like my tiara.