Top 3 Advanced Techniques you'd like to see returning in smash 4 and not Returning

[Renegade TX2000]

You can name more if you like or just name the few you want, I'm just curious on a lot of peoples opinions on this.

Returning AT's

1. L canceling

2. Dash Dance Melee Version "I mean tripping is removed now"

3. Dacus from brawl, or canceling dash attacks into a smash.

Screw top 3 i need a few more!

4. Perfect Shielding to reflect projectiles like from melee.

5. Glide tossing.


AT's that should never come back

1. Ledge hogging, cause i'm an ike main

2. go back to the 1st one I mentioned.

 

[edde]

wavedash and l cancel. neither will happen

 

[Dark Phazon]

wavedash and l cancel. neither will happen

L Cancel could but not Wavedash...

 

[DakotaBonez]

How could you forget the three basic ATs!?!

Fast Falling, Short Hopping and Teching (Breakfall/Ukemi/whatever ya call it)

 

[GreatGonzales]

L canceling and wave dashing of course. Fast falling would also be great...else l canceling would be less useful.

Can't really think of any advanced techniques that SHOULDN'T make it into smash 4. Why simplify the gameplay when it could be deliciously complex?

 

[Renegade TX2000]

L canceling and wave dashing of course. Fast falling would also be great...else l canceling would be less useful.

Can't really think of any advanced techniques that SHOULDN'T make it into smash 4. Why simplify the gameplay when it could be deliciously complex?

Yea, just add them all in. Only one that won't get in would be wave dashing though.

That would be the real question, if all the AT's came back but wave dashing, would melee players MAIN the new smash? or still prefer melee?

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

"Advanced techniques" are almost completely irrelevant in a vacuum outside of any physics and characters.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Oh look! Another Melee vs Brawl thread!

Or if it isn't now, it will; be a bunch of posts after me. This subject talking about ATs has already been brought up MANY times on this forum, I'd recommend posting about them in one of those topics and having this merged to avoid another possible giant debate.

 

[GreatGonzales]

Yea, just add them all in. Only one that won't get in would be wave dashing though.

That would be the real question, if all the AT's came back but wave dashing, would melee players MAIN the new smash? or still prefer melee?

Hmm, sorry but why not wave dashing? It's an additional mobility option, therefore creates richer gameplay options at high level. You see that sort of thing in a lot of fighting games, but I think it's especially important for such a spatially conscious game as smash.

I suppose it's a moot point, though - haven't they already confirmed that air dodges are the same as in brawl?

 

[Ulevo]

Oh look! Another Melee vs Brawl thread!

Or if it isn't now, it will; be a bunch of posts after me. This subject talking about ATs has already been brought up MANY times on this forum, I'd recommend posting about them in one of those topics and having this merged to avoid another possible giant debate.

You know, you're provoking the very thing you seek to prevent.

Why don't you let people just speak their minds.

 

[grizby2]

retuning:
perfect shielding
short hopping
AND TRIPPING (caused by a move )

not returning:
horrible grab releases
chain grabs
transcendent hit box priority

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

retuning:
perfect shielding
short hopping
AND TRIPPING (caused by a move )

I agree, tripping should be an advanced technique, and it should replace L-Cancelling. When you press L as you land on the ground, it makes you trip instead of taking the character out of the landing animation.

 

[Renji64]

The more AT"s the better. But L canceling at least would be fine and shouldn't cause problems.

 

[nat pagle]

Ones I want to return:

1.) L-Cancelling. No reason it shouldn't be here and it's not "glitchy" in a sense.
2.) Teching. Again, no sense in it not being here.
3.) Short Hopping. Heck, CPU Fox in Melee uses it.

Ones I do not want to return:

1.) Wavedashing. We all know Sakurai probably doesn't like it. And it feels more like a "glitchy" move exploiting the physics.
2.) Chain Grabs. Who wants to get grabbed over and over again and practically lose 3/4 of your stock?
3.) Infinites.

 

[NessOnett]

Things that should return: Everything from Melee

Things that should be scrapped: Everything from Brawl(including 'using Metaknight'...obviously an advanced technique since all the pros do it).

 

[grandmaster192]

1.)L-Cancel
2.)Dash Dance
3.)Jump Cancel

 

[Morbi]

I want L-Canceling to return. I want Chain Grabbing to die in a ditch. Other than that? I don't really care. I would be interested in seeing new ATs being implemented in the game.

 

[DRM4R10]

L-cancel so we can SHFFL
Wavedashing, I mean seriously it's so versatile and an efficient way of edge hogging
and dash dancing, but that's already announced so DACUS.

 

[TreK]

My top three favorite Smash ATs :
1- Melee Dash Dance
2- Brawl Platform Cancel
3- Brawl wavebouncing
Honorable mentions :
-Brawl : dodge dropping, glide tossing
-Melee : wavedash, waveland

My bottom three least favorite Smash ATs :
1- Planking (both games)
2- Brawl chain grabs/infinites/jab locks
3- Melee L cancel
Dishonorable mentions :
-Brawl : DACUS (looks weird as ****), sharking
-Melee : Crouch cancel, jump cancelled grab

 

[himemiya]

The ones I want t return
1.dacus
2.glide-toss
3.powershield canceling

 

[himemiya]

The ones I want t return
1.dacus
2.glide-toss
3.powershield canceling

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Doesn't anybody want a new game? Personally, I hope Smash 4 isn't an amalgam of things people liked from previous games.

All old ATs gone, and a host of new ones, please.

 

[DRM4R10]

Doesn't anybody want a new game? Personally, I hope Smash 4 isn't an amalgam of things people liked from previous games.

All old ATs gone, and a host of new ones, please.

why can't the new game not replace ATs, and add new ones on top of it?

 

[_R@bid_]

Keep DACUS, RAR, character specific ATs like DJC and shellshifting, wavebouncing, teching, short hopping, fastfalling, glide tossing + aerial version too, just like in PM, and wavelands. Cut l-canceling, infinites, and chain grabs.

 

[nessokman]

There is no point in bringing back wavedashing...... I want tripping! Lolzzzzzz

actually I was running past someone charching an attack and tripped past them right before they attacked.....FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Crouch Cancel, Dash Dance, Jump Cancel, Wave Bounce, Power Shield, tripping attacks, waveland/dash, platform cancel.

 

[Ghostbone]

L-cancelling is stupid, just halve everyone's landing lag.

Anyway, DACUS and DACG should return, B-reversing should return (and PLEEEASE let me b-reverse final smashes because it's dumb that you can't), Platform cancelling (Maybe even on all platforms, not just moving ones) should return, Glide tossing should return but make it a more standardised distance for everyone (TL going nowhere and DK moving across the entire screen is silly), RAR should also return.
Melee dash dancing would be nice also

/I'm not classifying anything shown on the dojo as an AT, which includes short hops/fast falling/ukemi/shield angling, but yes basic game mechanics like those should return

 

[Commando]

Why won't wave dashing come back?

 

[Ulevo]

Doesn't anybody want a new game? Personally, I hope Smash 4 isn't an amalgam of things people liked from previous games.

All old ATs gone, and a host of new ones, please.

Statements like this amuse me because they lack analysis and foresight.

The only reason you're on this website in the first place is because you enjoy Smash, yet you fail to recognize what has made people come to enjoy Smash so much. Most likely because of yet again a misunderstanding of the context around advanced technique.

I'd like to play a Smash Bros. game, thanks. Not something parading around with its title.

 

[[Corn]]

Returning AT's

1. Perfect Shields reflect projectiles

2. Dacus or smashing during a dash

3. Grabbing the ledge when not facing it directly


AT's that should never come back

1. L-canceling

2. Footstool/Hobble infinite's

3. Attacking whilst gliding right before landing cancels lag

 

[rawrimamonster]

Mechanics that don't blow in general, and a "not floaty **** casual catered" game. That pretty much covers everything all at once.

 

[Lemonwater]

Yes:
-Power shielding
-Reverse aerial rush
-Teching

No:
-Practical infinites or other unpunishables that are not very situational
-Footstooling
-Wavedashing

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Statements like this amuse me because they lack analysis and foresight.

The only reason you're on this website in the first place is because you enjoy Smash, yet you fail to recognize what has made people come to enjoy Smash so much. Most likely because of yet again a misunderstanding of the context around advanced technique.

I'd like to play a Smash Bros. game, thanks. Not something parading around with its title.

Really, Ulevo? Again? Is your thirst for bickering never slaked?

 

[PrincessAzula]

I want to return:
L-Cancelling
Dash Dancing
Glide Tossing

I don't want to return:
Wavedashing
Footstooling
Metaknight

 

[Uffe]

L-canceling (Like most people here have already stated)
Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR)
Pivot Grabbing
Glide Tossing

Please, none of that grab releasing crap.

 

[Double Helix]

So not quite an AT...but the number 1 thing that should stay...
light shielding

as for the rest...returning:
l-cancelling
Melee air-dodge

things that should go
crouch cancelling...why should I be punished for hitting you really?
brawl's edge-grabbing

seriously...light shielding rocks and **** crouch cancelling lol

 

[Ulevo]

I don't want to return:
Metaknight

As a competitive tourney goer, I am upset and offended by this comment. I spent a lot of hard work and time in to mastering the advanced technique known as Meta Knight. Such accomplishments I owe in large part to helpful informative sources, like this one.

On a more serious note, I'm surprised how many people say they want L-Cancelling back, despite how vocal certain groups are about its inclusion being meaningless.

 

[Double Helix]

@Ulevo: L-cancelling alone allows so much depth to the game. Not missing allows for amazing follow-ups and missing causes punishes. There is a lot more too it than that, but it basically adds more to the game than it looks like, because it isn't completely ridiculous like Z-cancelling, but without it the decision-making process is very different. Also you get to use cool moves like Link's dair and Bowser's bair. Seriously, who could hate those moves?

 

[Ulevo]

@Ulevo: L-cancelling alone allows so much depth to the game. Not missing allows for amazing follow-ups and missing causes punishes. There is a lot more too it than that, but it basically adds more to the game than it looks like, because it isn't completely ridiculous like Z-cancelling, but without it the decision-making process is very different. Also you get to use cool moves like Link's dair and Bowser's bair. Seriously, who could hate those moves?

The proposed arguments against L-Cancelling are that it in fact adds no depth to the game strategically, since it is always optimal to L-Cancel aerial attacks. There is never a point where you shouldn't. So why not simply halve all the characters aerial lag and call it a day? And to this effect, they are right.

I do believe however there is another benefit to adding L-Canceling in that doesn't have to do with depth or decision making that still allows for it to add to the experience. I don't see people ever argue my position though in favor of its inclusion, so its interesting to see so many people wanting it to return.

 

[Double Helix]

Might I ask what this other benefit is? I mean, I get the proposed argument for those who want to take it out, but I still feel like it adds depth. It allows for a punish game for going in too deep. I mean sure, you could just halve the landing lag, but if L-cancelling was unknown, then people wouldn't go for the flashy and risky stuff that is part of the metagame. I feel like having the ability to punish your opponent in a game with pressure like Melee adds depth based on the same argument they have for L-cancelling not adding depth. It is all in the presentation of information I guess. Thanks for the viewpoint of others that I missed out on (my noob is showing again x.x).