*Toon Link*

[IrisKong]

As I was saying in the MU board, we need to get things going and try to be an active environment with the new tier list. We now have more motivation than ever to prove that pit is Legit. I am going to try my best to help with MU threads, try to post positive remarks. The way I am doing it is once a week i will post 3 seperate threads for different characters from different tiers. we are starting with a,b,c tier because MK is a tired discussion, first will be Snake, D3 and Tink, please help me out guys!


=====TOON LINK=====

Tink is a cool character, under rated as well, his projectile spam along with his great air game and Zair spacing make him a tricky subject, we arent out on this yet though, we can span to!

Pit pros/cons?

Tink pros/cons

Stages to strike/ban?

lets go guys, VICTORY CAN BE OURS!

 

[Tetsion]

I think this match up is in our favor 55/45

The reason I believe this is that, even though Tink has good aerial combat, we still out range him. Pit has two reflector's , not only that we can easily Back air him if we time it right on the ledge because of his "Chain grab" - hah also we can reflect his up B if timed right as well. We have the tools to stop toon link, I think staying on the ground is a good idea, and slowly approach don't just run in. That is because, his aerials will probably punish you if you try to approach too fast.

Tink will probably try to aerial so do a shield > grab or ps roll away hit with arrow (for once i think you should roll, even though that's usually bad) his ground game is slower than our's I believe or at least I havn't fought a good enough Tink on the ground. If he uses his projectiles attempt to side B them, if possible. It gives you time to approach and they have to shield the arrow/boomerang or avoid it.

stages.. to go with Tink is probably Lylat cruise and Final D. I say Lylat because of the way the stage tilts, not many people mess up normally. With the stage constantly moving if Tink is off by a little, he will go over the stage.. and boom he is punished.

We can just glide under it or Up B, close to the edge and we are good.

 

[MJG]

At best this is 50/50 for you guys.

Your reflector's honestly isn't that big of a deal for toonlink. TL just have to be smart about projectile spam (Zair will go through your Angel Ring). To be honest, TL won't have to run away from pit and rely on projectiles the entire time to do any decent damage.

I agree with the Back air part only a little because, this should not be happening to toonlinks ALL the time unless they are being predictable with their recovery methods (actually, most toonlinks will throw a boomerang towards the ledge anyways, so unless your already off stage, we still shouldn't get stage spiked by Bair or any aerial that often) >_>. The only reliable thing that has harassed me off stage has been Pit's Arrows. If toonlink has to use Up B, hold onto the ledge and just drop off and use Up B again to grab the ledge. It will push the TL player away from the ledge.

A good toonlink will NEVER roll. I don't know no where that came from. His roll is SO incredibly bad.

I agree with Lylat being good vs TL. It screws up our timing as well (not that big of a deal though).

Try not to be stuck in a position to have to use Up B. We have a easier time hitting you out of it with all of our tools.

When its time to kill, I think we might actually have the edge for once. Other than your F Smash and Back Air, I can't think of any reliable kill moves for pit vs TL. TLs can also SDI the F Smash (Our floaty-ness aids us a bit). Oh..I Forgot about glide attack as well.

As far as stages go, Delfino and Halberd would be your best bet against us. Frigate is a decent stage as well for pit. Lylat and Yoshi's are good starters to play on against TL. You will be killing earlier than us on Yoshi's Island.

One of TLs best friends in this MU will be Zair. It out ranges everything pit has (It even stops arrows).

Arrow looping is not an issue. Its so easy not to get hit by them >_>

Wingdashing can cancel out all projectiles except bombs (they will still be pushed back by pit's Up B though)

If you exploit a TLs habit of Spot dodging after an approach (or anything), punish him with a down smash.

Watch gliding back onto the stage. Toonlink can jump above you and Dair you from above (not offstage lol), or he can Up smash you (you can stop the Up Smash easier though if you angle your gliding descent and use your glide attack in time).

We can punish your dash attack with an Up Smash

Toonlink is too floaty for a Forward throw CG. We can DI down and zair or just nair...so get ready to powershield...chances of you regrabbing us still is slim to none. So maybe Forward throw to Dash attack? Or even forward throw to a shutter step F Smash (that is so sexy XD)

-On Platforms/Ledges, it is good to execute F smash because even if we shield the first hit, the second hit WILL hit toonlink and i hate that it happens but your F smash pushes us just far enough to where the second hit can reach us and we will lose our shield because we no longer have any ground below us.



BREAKING THE STAGES DOWN:

Toonlinks will most likely be counterpicking stages like:
(Toonlink is good on most neutrals to be honest, but the neutrals below are stages where I, personally, would take pit)

-Battlefield (Reduces ability to camp as hard).
-Smashville
-Delfino (its ok..again i wouldnt Counterpick it but we dont have any advantages/disadvantages really, except for the slim chance of spiking pit when the two players are playin it out on the moving platform) This stage is actually pretty good for both players.

Stages for Pit when playing toonlink:
-Frigate
-Halberd: You kill us earlier horizontally. We kill you earlier vertically
-Yoshis Island (If for some reason we are recovering low on this stage and you decide to glide along the ledge, then you can end your glide, grab the ledge, and get a quick kill. Heres a Money Match video that demonstrating this..just watch up start at 20 and end at 30 to see what I am talking about ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnEuhpd2Ac#t=0m27s )----->Old as rocks, but gets the point across.
-Delfino (Look at Description above)
-Lylat (This is by far one of the better stages to play on against a tl user...its annoying.

55:45 TL (50:50 on some stages)

Ill edit this post if I remember anything else.

 

[CTX]

I think this match up is in our favor 55/45

The reason I believe this is that, even though Tink has good aerial combat, we still out range him. Pit has two reflector's , not only that we can easily Back air him if we time it right on the ledge because of his "Chain grab" - hah also we can reflect his up B if timed right as well. We have the tools to stop toon link, I think staying on the ground is a good idea, and slowly approach don't just run in. That is because, his aerials will probably punish you if you try to approach too fast.

Tink will probably try to aerial so do a shield > grab or ps roll away hit with arrow (for once i think you should roll, even though that's usually bad) his ground game is slower than our's I believe or at least I havn't fought a good enough Tink on the ground. If he uses his projectiles attempt to side B them, if possible. It gives you time to approach and they have to shield the arrow/boomerang or avoid it.

stages.. to go with Tink is probably Lylat cruise and Final D. I say Lylat because of the way the stage tilts, not many people mess up normally. With the stage constantly moving if Tink is off by a little, he will go over the stage.. and boom he is punished.

We can just glide under it or Up B, close to the edge and we are good.

Eh, I don't know how much I agree with it being in Pit's favor.

As far as your reflectors, a competent toon link can throw their bombs at the ground in front of you to punish your reflectors. If you get to happy with the side b, or the other reflector move, it will be punish by that, not to mention that can start a b-air string, a footstool to d-air, or if you are at kill percentage we can simply u-air you. Besides, if you get too happy with reflecting any projectile it can get punished with z-air. You aren't falco so the reflector itself isn't something to worry about. Not to mention we can use all three of projectiles in a WIDE variety of ways.

Also, I believe our n-air out ranges all of pit's aerials. I could be wrong on that. Also you don't mention our z-air anywhere in that, which is very hard to believe. Pit's grab range isn't long enough to punish z-air on the block, nor can any of his moves compete with it. Z-air to n-air, z-air to z-air, z-air to grab, etc, etc.

I feel like a lot of your analysis goes on experience against bad toon links.

 

[Thebest1pj]

i agree with ctx and mjg l(lol 3 letter names) AND nair ***** pit like so bad.....................


EPIC post: I PLAYED ADMIRAL PIT THE BEST PIT OF ALL TIME HES SO GOOD HE LOST BY TIMING HIMSELF OUT TRYING TO PLANK EVEN THOUGH I WAS IN THE LEAD

 

[Admiral Pit]

That's stupidity for you. Some TLs are more annoying than I think consider them running away all the time with bombs and simply throwing stuff. You're better off knowing their own style from possible camping to close-combat to switching between such tactics.
And I coulda sworn I made a thread bout this matchup months ago.

 

[Tetsion]

As far as your reflectors, a competent toon link can throw their bombs at the ground in front of you to punish your reflectors.
-----
Only if you spam side B. Down B even if you throw it in front of us, the shield itself blocks the explosion. You have to be above pit in order to do that.
-------

The best thing to do is to stay away from Z-air. It's not impossible to roll behind him or arrow him as he attempts to Z-air you. His hook shot is not as long as Link's I fear Link's more than I fear toon links. I think Toon Link is legit. I don't think it's honestly in his favor or anything though.

mjg brought up good points as well.. quite interesting. I'd say considering i can't vouch for fighting "Pro" toon link's and just from seeing videos of toon link or pit

I'm thinking 50/50. I think it sounds good, I think they cancel each other out, Tink has good air mobility as well. His sword is long enough as well.

Thanks Toon Link guys for putting some info out! ^ ^

@ Admiral, you know there's a new tier list right? Iris is making it considering the current tier list.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Never noticed -_-
And you reminded me bout some of the stuff. Obviously, don't go reflecting bombs, and Z-air has 1 hitbox (opposed to Link's 2 hitboxes), easily shielded when we ain't doing a move. If a TL is approaching towards us with it, a shieldgrab may be possible, but don't count on it much considering how they prefer to space with it.

 

[Tetsion]

It's alright man. You should check it out pit moved up on the tier list.

anyways I think reflecting bombs once in a while is ok. It will catch a toon link player off guard, only to use in a rare occasion when the moment arrives.

Yeah, link's is just better than Tink's I think Tink is awesome. I just now think it's even one isn't better than the other. so 50/50 because Pit can still keep his distance from Tink especially on stages like Final D. Lylat can mess with Tink's options as well.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Never noticed -_-
And you reminded me bout some of the stuff. Obviously, don't go reflecting bombs, and Z-air has 1 hitbox (opposed to Link's 2 hitboxes), easily shielded when we ain't doing a move. If a TL is approaching towards us with it, a shieldgrab may be possible, but don't count on it much considering how they prefer to space with it.

you knew about the tier list you were the first person to make a blog about it on aib wtf lol.......................

also 55:40 tls favor extra 5 is for gay brawl bs

 

[MJG]

Ok...huge edit on my first post. I think I've said everything there is to say on this MU >_>. If not, feel free to input.

 

[demonictoonlink]

God this thread is nothing but Toon Links...

Also I think this is 50-50.

*shot by Tinks*

 

[Admiral Pit]

We know the ratio is 55:45 atm (well it's the majority's opinion) Alas, keeping updated and reviewing does serve its benefits. I dont think I ever done this, but maybe there is a way we can pick up bombs and use our long-sliding glidetoss against em.

 

[pitskeyblade]

My friend is one of the most annoying Tinks I've ever fought. He just short hops into a Zair, lands and does and up smash. A pretty effective strategy (unless you see it coming.) I have a lot of trouble approacing a Zair-happy Tink because the hookshot cancels out arrows, making it harder to camp. If you're at low damage, watch out for Utilt because a competent Tink can hit you easily 3 or more times if you're not careful. I think the best way to try to kill Tink is to get him to a high % and keep a fresh Bair handy. That or gimping, which to me is kinda difficult.

 

[WindMajor]

Nah, 3 or more Utilts isn't right. More like MAX 3 utilts. And that's when they're stale, or when Pit's at low damage. It's normally just one, maybe two, and then we'll follow it up with a Bair. Depending on the spacing, we might try to string another bair or so.

 

[MJG]

My friend is one of the most annoying Tinks I've ever fought. He just short hops into a Zair, lands and does and up smash. A pretty effective strategy (unless you see it coming.) I have a lot of trouble approacing a Zair-happy Tink because the hookshot cancels out arrows, making it harder to camp. If you're at low damage, watch out for Utilt because a competent Tink can hit you easily 3 or more times if you're not careful. I think the best way to try to kill Tink is to get him to a high % and keep a fresh Bair handy. That or gimping, which to me is kinda difficult.

Zair>Up smash is only a legit follow up if 1) toonlink gives up his spacing or 2) you are playing wifi

 

[IrisKong]

Zair>Up smash is only a legit follow up if 1) toonlink gives up his spacing or 2) you are playing wifi

Thats true. Zair will usually be followed up by nair, or maybe a grab for mind games.

As for my input on the matchup...

Arrows? lol

So much spam, both the characters have a difficult time killing I think, although I think pit will have an easier time with landing them than tink. Also, Pit is a little heavier, so he will live a little longer, although tink will probably wrack damage faster. Pit has a better recovery and can go out far for gimps, but Tin has tricks to get back to the stage as well (projectiles, Bair walling back to the stage). Niether character wants to be above the other, becasue both of there Uairs are good (tinks kills, pit wracks damage).Its a very even match up and will most likley come down to counter picks and better spacing. I personally would not take a Tink to Lylat or Halberd (because those are actually my CP's when I play tink -_-) I would probably take tink to FD or BF. Its probably a 50:50 match up.

 

[Thebest1pj]

no ****'t it in tls favor i just played esca friday he agrees

 

[Esca]

This matchup is definately in Toon Link's favor. He's the one character that can outcamp Pit.

 

[Thebest1pj]

This matchup is definately in Toon Link's favor. He's the one character that can outcamp Pit.

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Hmmm... 50:50. Or 45:55 TL, both characters are pretty similar, but Tink has better options than Pit, and tbh TL will be killing you earlier than you will be killing him, TLink simply has more options, and his kill moves are as, or more powerful than yours. You both can camp like beasts, but I think TL outcamps Pit slightly. You both have great aerial games, but TL has better aerials for the most part, plus a Zair.

 

[MJG]

I think its time for you all to wrap this up.