Toon Link Match-up Video and Critique Thread

MJG · Feb 5, 2011

Twinkie said:
A video of Sant's TL playing his oh so favorite matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXaGaSonB58

I miss Sant.

NH Cody · Feb 5, 2011

Great critique MJG. Sure that'll help him

MJG · Feb 5, 2011

I haven't watched the vid yet. I haven't watched any of the vids posted on this page actually.

WindMajor · Feb 5, 2011

It's not like S@nT's around to read the critique anyways. He has no internet in his house, and the internet at his school blocks SWF.

NH Cody · Feb 5, 2011

Twinkie said:
It's not like S@nT's around to read the critique anyways. He has no internet in his house, and the internet at his school blocks SWF.

o__O

Why would his school know anything about swf?? lolol

MJG · Feb 5, 2011

~Quest~ said:
o__O

Why would his school know anything about swf?? lolol

I am assuming that this website is categorized as "Games" and that there is some sort of program like "Websense" or something of that nature that blocks certain wesbite. Social Networks (like Facebook) and other websites are affected by this as well.

Dajayman · Feb 6, 2011

There are so many websites to go around those school blocks but I forgot them all since I graduated high school three years ago.

Ic0slay3r · Feb 6, 2011

Wait isn't S@nt in College?
Also you just need to use a proxy website.

WindMajor · Feb 6, 2011

Ico, yes and yes, but some filters block those proxy sites too.

Anyways, I think S@nT approached way too often. Agree?

Thebest1pj · Feb 6, 2011

Are you really about to critique sants vids when theres like 15 uncriticized matches before his?

WindMajor · Feb 6, 2011

why doesn't pj critique matches himself again, lol?

Thebest1pj · Feb 6, 2011

Cause i only state the obvious and when i do someone talks **** to me even though im just trying to help.

NH Cody · Feb 6, 2011

Yeah I was kinda going for that when I said "great critique MJG" since Sant's the only one who even got a response and it wasn't even a critique.

I've watched most of the videos up to this point. and everybody is making the same mistakes. Basically everybody do this

-stop approaching so much (obvious)
-stop doing things that are dumb and get you punished (example pulling out a bomb/throwing a boomerang when you're right in front of somebody)
-lrn2space
-lrn2mix up more
-don't always throw your bombs in the same patterns, maybe throw a boomerang or something before throwing your bomb (most common problem)
-don't airdodge into your opponent to be killed
-learn to fix your own habits, and capitalize on your opponent's habits (example if they roll into you a lot then just zair --> nair them or something)
-THINK about what you're doing in-game and don't let yourself fall into patterns, mix it up and don't be predictable.

Sant in particular has a problem killing. I've said this before but I'll say it again *sigh*

don't start randomly hyphen smashing to kill. It'll come naturally when mixed in with your usual projectile shenanigans. KEEP YOUR PROJECTILES GOING OMG THIS IS THE SECOND MOST COMMON PROBLEM. Like everybody I've seen just...stops throwing stuff altogether at high percents >__< this is how you pressure people and distract them so you can kill. Or you can go for the "HyRo" and start empty shorthopping, run up to them and shield, then roll read usmash

lol no don't do this.

there's other stuff too I'm seeing, if any of you want more info then talk to me on an xat, or some chat thingy like AIM. It's easier that way.

G-Dub · Feb 7, 2011

shadow1pj said:
Are you really about to critique sants vids when theres like 15 uncriticized matches before his?

Speaking of uncritiqued vids... I have a set posted and would like some tips from some of you guys, like some general gameplay help...

WindMajor · Feb 7, 2011

By any chance, do you want that post to be the post in the front page?

I can't watch vids atm, so if you do, tell me what color your Toon is.

G-Dub · Feb 7, 2011

Twinkie said:
By any chance, do you want that post to be the post in the front page?

I can't watch vids atm, so if you do, tell me what color your Toon is.

Yeah, prolly be easier to find that way.

In those vids i used green TL due to a crappy Dark hack.

WindMajor · Feb 7, 2011

G-Dub said:
Yeah, prolly be easier to find that way.
In those vids i used green TL due to a crappy Dark hack.

Without the hacks, what would your regular tunic color be?

G-Dub · Feb 9, 2011

Twinkie said:
Without the hacks, what would your regular tunic color be?

....green....

TLMSheikant · Feb 13, 2011

I got some friendly replays against rated the other day. Kewk has them. Ive actually been practicing brawl now lmao. I need to stop making mistakes. The day I stop making mistakes I'll be able to beat snakes >_>.

S@nT (lost to 2 snakes in 4 consecutive tournaments fml)

PD- hi mjg. hi twink. hi to all tls.

WindMajor · Feb 13, 2011

You won't be able to stop all mistakes, just reduce them.

And sheikant omg you're back stay with us for your 3000th post

TLMSheikant · Feb 13, 2011

Sure.

And yeah, I was watching that vid of me vs rated in yoshis island and I was so furious every time I made a mistake. (which btw, were a lot) Like, approaching, counterpicking Yoshis island, getting utilted, not counting my bomb right, not counting snake's grenades right, boomeranging from up close) The first mistake was CP'ing Yoshis island. I know Rated hates that stage but I also hate it. Because camping there, for me, feels weird. The slopes dont let me rqs (or bbq w/e u wanna call it) The platform is dumb, there's little space to move, etc. Gah, I suck lol.

NH Cody · Feb 14, 2011

TLMSheikant said:
I got some friendly replays against rated the other day. Kewk has them. Ive actually been practicing brawl now lmao. I need to stop making mistakes. The day I stop making mistakes I'll be able to beat snakes >_>.

S@nT (lost to 2 snakes in 4 consecutive tournaments fml)

Welcome to my world >_> go to a tourney in New England. You think you have a lot of snakes to deal with in PR?

HA.

MJG · Feb 17, 2011

Hyro · Feb 18, 2011

First off yeah I'm gonna critique mjgizzle and nobody else because with him I can actually give tips and a lot of the other people it's like....play brawl better lol

annnyyywayys

pros

first match vs oli first stock you baired him...i was like I would boomerang right now...then you did...then i was like i would up b for the kill....then you did LOL good **** thats why i like your playstyle. its fun but you do the gay camping too.

I like that you do **** that shows you know toon link inside out. the dash attacks by the ledge for example. and the boomerangs after the bombs. And when you crossover their shield with an ibomb and then bair.

apparently uthrow too good lol

Ok now for the bad stuff

How do beat a havok but lose to a domo?

no offense domo. havok's just better than you, you're terrible at brawl, your fat and you prolly didnt have a valentine

critique time

first, in general, you need to work platforms better. To get off a platform, don't walk off and then fast fall. Run off and hit diagonal, then airdodge. You'll fast fall immediatley and you'll hit the ground during your airdodge so that you can buffer anything. Practice that a ****load, it works with about every character. You'll be 10x better at brawl. Speed is sooo important. Another thing you can do is with your bairs. When you land on a platform with a bair, don't hesitate. You know it autocancels, so immediately drop from the platform and fastfall a bair to the ground. It gets out a ton of hitboxes fast as hell

Stop fairing from the edge...it's so unsafe. It takes an hour lol. Press back and nair. It's so much faster and safer. I guess sometimes fair is okay. But like 90% nair 10% fair.

Someone told me this before but I noticed you could do it too. There were a lot of times you coulda upaired domo. For the kill or for a combo after you baired him. Use it more.

I would chain cancel more sparingly cuz the less you use it the more it confuses them. I like saving it for when you're sure an mk's about to drop off the edge and put out a nair/dair.

notice at higher percents you finish your jab cancels. aka its safer and means theirs no chance for error. aka do it all the time

vs mk when you're recovering, another option, when you see him coming offstage to attack you, you can airdodge to bait him in, then zair him. it's random as hell and it'll let you recover. situational, but so is everythign else we do. you'll recognize it when you see it now that you know

And thennn when you're falling from the sky vs mk, instead of throwing a bomb down, you can drop it and move behind it. That way it goes slower and it creates a wall he can't pass. Go on the opposite side of that slow falling bomb and you can do w/e you want...like pull another and throw it at his valentineless ***

damn i was hoping you'd make fino ragequit the last match with a dsmash gimp lol

now i feel like playing brawl...but instead ima go to sleep and wake up for class in the morning. i know im lame.

NearZzz · Feb 18, 2011

Hyro said:
no offense domo. havok's just better than you, you're terrible at brawl, your fat and you prolly didnt have a valentine

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, HyRo2gud y

MJG · Feb 18, 2011

Hyro said:
First off yeah I'm gonna critique mjgizzle and nobody else because with him I can actually give tips and a lot of the other people it's like....play brawl better lol

annnyyywayys

pros

first match vs oli first stock you baired him...i was like I would boomerang right now...then you did...then i was like i would up b for the kill....then you did LOL good **** thats why i like your playstyle. its fun but you do the gay camping too.

I like that you do **** that shows you know toon link inside out. the dash attacks by the ledge for example. and the boomerangs after the bombs. And when you crossover their shield with an ibomb and then bair.

apparently uthrow too good lol

Ok now for the bad stuff

How do beat a havok but lose to a domo?

no offense domo. havok's just better than you, you're terrible at brawl, your fat and you prolly didnt have a valentine

critique time

first, in general, you need to work platforms better. To get off a platform, don't walk off and then fast fall. Run off and hit diagonal, then airdodge. You'll fast fall immediatley and you'll hit the ground during your airdodge so that you can buffer anything. Practice that a ****load, it works with about every character. You'll be 10x better at brawl. Speed is sooo important. Another thing you can do is with your bairs. When you land on a platform with a bair, don't hesitate. You know it autocancels, so immediately drop from the platform and fastfall a bair to the ground. It gets out a ton of hitboxes fast as hell

Stop fairing from the edge...it's so unsafe. It takes an hour lol. Press back and nair. It's so much faster and safer. I guess sometimes fair is okay. But like 90% nair 10% fair.

Someone told me this before but I noticed you could do it too. There were a lot of times you coulda upaired domo. For the kill or for a combo after you baired him. Use it more.

I would chain cancel more sparingly cuz the less you use it the more it confuses them. I like saving it for when you're sure an mk's about to drop off the edge and put out a nair/dair.

notice at higher percents you finish your jab cancels. aka its safer and means theirs no chance for error. aka do it all the time

vs mk when you're recovering, another option, when you see him coming offstage to attack you, you can airdodge to bait him in, then zair him. it's random as hell and it'll let you recover. situational, but so is everythign else we do. you'll recognize it when you see it now that you know

And thennn when you're falling from the sky vs mk, instead of throwing a bomb down, you can drop it and move behind it. That way it goes slower and it creates a wall he can't pass. Go on the opposite side of that slow falling bomb and you can do w/e you want...like pull another and throw it at his valentineless ***

damn i was hoping you'd make fino ragequit the last match with a dsmash gimp lol

now i feel like playing brawl...but instead ima go to sleep and wake up for class in the morning. i know im lame.

Haha thanks. I need to work on my ledge options..I like the ones that I use now, although, I agree with needing to use more nair and less fair. I stopped using nair back in like early '10 because I kept dair'ing instead of nair'ing off of the ledge.

Fixing that will just give me something to work on at least lol. I haven't played brawl outside of tourney play since Oh Snap 6 though

. My SD card is messed up and I have to use a USB Loader and my SD card to load brawl since my disc reader is broken and i don't have a wii mote.

But yea, ill make good use of all of that. Thank you sir.

Dajayman · Feb 18, 2011

MJG's music hacks are too good. You should consider sharing them.

Death Arcana · Feb 18, 2011

dajayman's avi's are too good

Hyro · Feb 18, 2011

yeah back instead of down if you don't want to accidentally dair

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster · Feb 21, 2011

Game 1 vs. Domo: Just a thought at 3:40,6:00, 6:30,7:07, and 7:09; I think you can shield/powershield MK's glide attack, and punish with jump-canceled upsmash oos. I know I see Olimar mains shield glide attack and punish with upsmash oos, so I'm thinking it could work the same for Toon Link. I see you running away from MK's glide most of the time (I can see why when you tried to challenge it at 1:00,1:27, 2:38, 3:41 and such), so I suppose that's usually the best option.

MJG · Feb 21, 2011

AeroLink_the_SoulMaster said:
Game 1 vs. Domo: Just a thought at 3:40,6:00, 6:30,7:07, and 7:09; I think you can shield/powershield MK's glide attack, and punish with jump-canceled upsmash oos. I know I see Olimar mains shield glide attack and punish with upsmash oos, so I'm thinking it could work the same for Toon Link. I see you running away from MK's glide most of the time (I can see why when you tried to challenge it at 1:00,1:27, 2:38, 3:41 and such), so I suppose that's usually the best option.

Hmmm...I have thought about learning to JC Up Smash several times but everyone keeps telling me that I should use tap jump if I plan on doing so, which I don't use at all.

I usually pivot grab the glide or run away (like you said). I got hit with the glide attack more than often but I guess it is time to learn how to JC Up Smash.

Also, olimar's up smash comes out on frame 8 and TLs comes out on frame 11...so it MIGHT be possible and it is something that would definitely help.

Does anyone JC Up smash (anyone that doesn't use tap jump)?

WindMajor · Feb 21, 2011

Yeah. I have Jump set to R. It's like doing an upward glidetoss, except for it's with the other shoulder button. If you're not using a shoulder button for anything, make the switch.

MJG · Feb 21, 2011

My R isn't set to anything.

I guess its time to learn how to do this.

TheJerm · Feb 22, 2011

Actually hyro, your wrong about the fairs. There's a way you can use fair off the ledge and be pretty much unpunishable.

MaskedAvnger · Feb 24, 2011

Critique Please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV3PryrQybs

I know I did all sorts of bad stuff game 1. Game 2 was a little bit better. His diddy always gives me a lot of trouble, I just need to figure out how to do work against him, and diddy kong in general, any advice would be appreciated.

More videos from that weekend coming up (hopefully) soon

G-Dub · Feb 24, 2011

MaskedAvnger said:
Critique Please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV3PryrQybs

I know I did all sorts of bad stuff game 1. Game 2 was a little bit better. His diddy always gives me a lot of trouble, I just need to figure out how to do work against him, and diddy kong in general, any advice would be appreciated.

More videos from that weekend coming up (hopefully) soon

You let him have bannana control the whole match, and when diddy has bannana control, he wins. I also noted the fact that you never fast fall... that really slows down toon links game, and limits the projectile spam. Also, a lil tip for diddy: our dash attack is great in this MU for grabbing his shixx. Other than that, jus keep practicing, and speed your game up.

WindMajor · Feb 25, 2011

Ic0slay3r · Feb 25, 2011

I was able to save some videos too :D

except all mine where in Team.

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JLj6BiDfYE (I used MK, probably the reason why we lost)
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvxLxPuJySA
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCDl-BxYuR0&feature=watch_response

Losers Semi:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJY7C0No7KI&feature=player_embedded ( we won, the replay at the end got f*** up)
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ETfK8k_7wis#at=19
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4K7DsPjOn14#at=52

TLMSheikant · Feb 27, 2011

The last 3 are obviously friendlies lol. (my vids) Btw I changed to red TL now.

MJG · Feb 28, 2011

Red toonlink :o

You circle camp REALLY well

Classic Bomb down throw> Up air kill: Toogood. I learned that TLs Up Tilt clashes with Peach's Forward Smash. Whether you did this intentionally or not, you did a good job of baiting peach's counter attack. Lol @ your Up B kill vs snake.

I thought this was really cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_Jtp1ggCo&t=3m8s

I can't believe how patient Excel is...anyways..
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Winners Finals

Game 1 of WFs: Don't try to force the kill so much. I know that Excel was racking on damage but you just have to be patient.

This mainly goes for game 1 since your spacing was really good throughout the majority of the set but....Excel punished you a lot for your zair usage. Just be careful with your spacing.
Whenever you were recovering vs Excel, you would throw a boomerang towards the stage, which is good but you did it too late. Excel is really good at edgeguarding TL.
Really not too much more to say about WFs. Excel's peach is amazing.

Just remember that you don't have to approach when you are losing. You did a good job of just camping and mixing up but just remember that.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Losers Finals

Try to avoid landing next to snake if you can. If you feel like you have no other choice but to land next to snake, make sure to ibomb , but be careful about its usage.

Use retreating zair and aerials for a majority of the match when fighting snake.

Watch out for all of snakes lingering hitboxes. You got hit by the claymore and C4 a lot during the set. Don't f smash snake. Its "ok" to do so when he is near the ledge but even then, if snake PS' (or even just shields) the first hit, they can f tilt you OoS (if the snake player knows that they can do so). Don't commit to pursuing snake if you are both on the same stock. You can rack up damage easier than snake. Getting inside of snakes zone (Especially for the kill) is what gives snake an edge during that part of the match. Treat snake like DDD in the sense that you want to be at least 2 DDD's away from snake during a majority of the match.

Overall I would say, don't hesitate too much. That is something that I noticed throughout your set. Keep moving and throw out the safe aerials when your opponent gets too close to you.

EDIT: Ill look at your vids later Ice if you want a critique.

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