Bloodcross
Smash Champion
get da *** away from mah twitch dirty ass *****
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Toon Link Match-up Video and Critique Thread
- Thread starter ShadowTl
- Start date
southpaw
Smash Apprentice
wow your toon links movement is actually really impressive imo. One giant bad habit you have is telegraphing your zairs with airdodge (rising sh airdodge>zair) and if you just pay attention to that it would get you punished a lot less, cuz once ppl see u airdodge they know ur only option now is to zair which can be easily blocked and punished.I'll leave this here and see what you guys can tell me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyGw7qp1bs&hd=1
stock1
u attempt to fight against snakes tilts (trying to grab/spotdodge/jab). dont do it, just get out of that position it will only lead to dmg on ur end. idk how that snake bair landed, i feel like u could ibombed before it hit you... wutever
stock2
cant believe u daired at snake like that, uair prolly would killed. bomb>zair>dsmash was sexy. unfortunate use of dj is unfortunate.
stock3
snake proved to u that going super low at the ledge is dangerous with that uair punish. ur follow up at snake offstage was kool. lost ur momentum by being stuck on the ledge, remember the simple ledgejump to dj is a nice option to get over most chars ledge traps. snakes fsmash is godlike
zFlashyStyle
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 126
- NNID
- T-Type
Thank you Southpaw for the tips! I'll try my best to fix those mistakes 
OniTheWolf
Smash Journeyman
If I could get some of these matches looked at, that would be great! I feel like I have hit a plateau as a far as skill goes, and I still have a lot of little habits that upper level players are easily taking advantage of. I see some of these, like the way I air-dodge, use double jumps, or the noticeable pattern in my bomb usage, but it is really hard for me to adjust/break those habits mid-match. These matches are prime examples of such things occurring.
vs. MVD (I still think I have a bit of trouble with the Snake MU, still a bit too impatient)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DtLaNt_2UM
vs. DFEAR (I clearly do not know this MU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKq-Gq4zzFo
vs. True Blue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxjO6A3g4VE
Thanks in advance guys!
vs. MVD (I still think I have a bit of trouble with the Snake MU, still a bit too impatient)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DtLaNt_2UM
vs. DFEAR (I clearly do not know this MU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKq-Gq4zzFo
vs. True Blue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxjO6A3g4VE
Thanks in advance guys!
Colin Cavanaugh
Smash Rookie
Hey I saw you were a profffesional in FL! I also live in FL and I am still a below average smasher I was wondering if we could do a brawl online together, maybe I can learn something from you
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
Hey fellow Toonys. I have a video I would like critiqued. It is doubles but I want you to critique me as if it were singles.
Here it is. TOON DOUBLES
Thanks guys.
Here it is. TOON DOUBLES
Thanks guys.
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
Work STUPID LINK!!! hope this link works. If it doesn't can You all tell me what went wrong. This time I saved the link's url and pasted it here.
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southpaw
Smash Apprentice
uhh doubles lol. well in general in doubles you want to stick as close to your teamate as possible, this can be tough as its dependant on ur own synergy for the most part. but toon link does not want to stay too far away as to let his partner get 2v1'd since even tho we have range, we still need to be kinda close to be of use. game1 ur ike died offstage for unknown reasons. uhhh in general if ur partner is on the ledge u wanna help apply some sort of pressure to give him a chance to get onstage for free. TL only needs to be around half stage to achieve this thanks to projectiles.
as for facing 1v2s as TL, ur kinda dead. IMO ur job as TL is to be a stock tank and to give ur partner an extra stock so TL never has to fight the 1v2. Not to say its not impossible to win them but toon link is not great at facing it. Can't really give too many tips for 1v2s, you just gotta be safe and extremely opportunistic and hope ur opponents make mistakes that you can act upon.
u cp'd halberd game2 and ur teammate went falco....riiiiiiight. I'm not gunna try to say too much about teammates for toon link. But with mk in the game TL/MK is really the only viable team. TL/wario or TL/gnw can be ok subs in this metagame.
uhhh end of game2, u know of TL's dsmash gimmick right? Id assume u knew about and thats why u went to the ledge in the first place but was suprised u didnt go for it at all lol. Its kinda not that great buts its all we got.
Most of what I've written are doubles things and u seem to want "singles" advice. This can be hard to write about since its doubles, but for the most part. You have a horrible habit of just running upsmashing ppls block at high percent, and praying that they die. This will lead to you get punished extremely easily and losing stocks. Also be more aware of what you're opponent is thinking. There were times where u thought they would attack you and defensively used an attack, when they just walked away from you to support their teammate. Awareness in general is an important skill. Thats about it, just try not to get hit. By that I mean don't do something that will get you hit for free, make your opponent have to actually have read your move to be able to actually land a hit.
as for facing 1v2s as TL, ur kinda dead. IMO ur job as TL is to be a stock tank and to give ur partner an extra stock so TL never has to fight the 1v2. Not to say its not impossible to win them but toon link is not great at facing it. Can't really give too many tips for 1v2s, you just gotta be safe and extremely opportunistic and hope ur opponents make mistakes that you can act upon.
u cp'd halberd game2 and ur teammate went falco....riiiiiiight. I'm not gunna try to say too much about teammates for toon link. But with mk in the game TL/MK is really the only viable team. TL/wario or TL/gnw can be ok subs in this metagame.
uhhh end of game2, u know of TL's dsmash gimmick right? Id assume u knew about and thats why u went to the ledge in the first place but was suprised u didnt go for it at all lol. Its kinda not that great buts its all we got.
Most of what I've written are doubles things and u seem to want "singles" advice. This can be hard to write about since its doubles, but for the most part. You have a horrible habit of just running upsmashing ppls block at high percent, and praying that they die. This will lead to you get punished extremely easily and losing stocks. Also be more aware of what you're opponent is thinking. There were times where u thought they would attack you and defensively used an attack, when they just walked away from you to support their teammate. Awareness in general is an important skill. Thats about it, just try not to get hit. By that I mean don't do something that will get you hit for free, make your opponent have to actually have read your move to be able to actually land a hit.
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
Thank you for the advice, I will try to fix the bad habits for doubles. I would have given a singles vid but none of those were recorded. Also, I wouldn't have been so dumb with upsmash but the tv's lag was pretty bad.
The gimmick you are talking about is the one that the bomb cancels out your dsmash for a ohko, right?
The gimmick you are talking about is the one that the bomb cancels out your dsmash for a ohko, right?
southpaw
Smash Apprentice
using a bomb is impractical, all chars under 20% will get sent horizontal after being dsmashed, chars like falco, marth, olimar....maybe that mario. are put in a horrible position and might die from a simple ledgehog afterwards
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
@
OniTheWolf
Since no one else will critique, I will. You can take it or leave it.
MVD
Your goal is to layer the projectiles onto him imo. Don't shoot arrows at him from a long distance, it will just be shielded. Only do that when its a mindgame or maybe even a recovery thing in some instances. You kept airdodging then zair, don't do that unless you just did an attack or you negate the quickness of the zair. I think you used a little too much bombs in the match-up and not enough of your other tools. This is stuff you probably already know now, but whatever. Hope it helped. By the way, I liked your use of momentum shift arrows(can't remember terms, sorry), I think they are useful..
I watched the True Blue match, you did fine.(he was Sonic right, I might not remember the tags, watched your videos a while ago)
DFear
Alright, 15 seconds or so in, he pulls two naners right in front you, insta throw the one closest to you down. When he has an ADHD wall on you, he shouldn't have an ADHD wall on you, throw rang or shoot arrow. Respect Diddy, don't get too close, wild animal after all. The whole reason why he beat you up badly was that you didn't know how to control them naners as TL. Be smart about putting a bomb in your hand, think ahead of things, you might need to catch a naner. Get a friend(or cpu) and play a match with items set to 'med' and have bananna be the only item, that will teach you the item play.
Hope this helps. I'm still kinda new to the scene and learning things(well, we all are).
OniTheWolf
Since no one else will critique, I will. You can take it or leave it.
MVD
Your goal is to layer the projectiles onto him imo. Don't shoot arrows at him from a long distance, it will just be shielded. Only do that when its a mindgame or maybe even a recovery thing in some instances. You kept airdodging then zair, don't do that unless you just did an attack or you negate the quickness of the zair. I think you used a little too much bombs in the match-up and not enough of your other tools. This is stuff you probably already know now, but whatever. Hope it helped. By the way, I liked your use of momentum shift arrows(can't remember terms, sorry), I think they are useful..
I watched the True Blue match, you did fine.(he was Sonic right, I might not remember the tags, watched your videos a while ago)
DFear
Alright, 15 seconds or so in, he pulls two naners right in front you, insta throw the one closest to you down. When he has an ADHD wall on you, he shouldn't have an ADHD wall on you, throw rang or shoot arrow. Respect Diddy, don't get too close, wild animal after all. The whole reason why he beat you up badly was that you didn't know how to control them naners as TL. Be smart about putting a bomb in your hand, think ahead of things, you might need to catch a naner. Get a friend(or cpu) and play a match with items set to 'med' and have bananna be the only item, that will teach you the item play.
Hope this helps. I'm still kinda new to the scene and learning things(well, we all are).
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@
OniTheWolf
wow you can see ALL THE RUST in that video. i demand a rematch.
dang playing the item game vs diddy is a whole different match. but zach is right oni.
the one with the better item control (including control of tl bombs) will set the pace of the match in this particular match-up.
keep in mind however majority of diddy players will have an exceptional level of knowledge about banana/general item play, you can be creative, however id recommend using bananas as a way to secure a checkmate or punish situation.
-------
tips against banana play imho:
instant toss on shield as a form of pressure, instant toss in general is good, dont air dodge catch youll get ****d up by peanuts/fair/another banana/etc, tho if you plan on air dodge catching mix-up between air dodge z drops/zair/bomb drops into airdodge catch bananas - creativity to cover options, air dodge is just too risky in these type of situations tho. if a diddy is plucking a banana, attack the diddy first he has quite some lag plucking a banana, secure the banana when available. even a boomerang/arrow will suffice, any dmg is good dmg, any lead is a good lead.
use banana as a back-up option to get out of situations, cover what would be punishable into something manageable with a banana. a practicable example would be a soft glidetoss/jumptoss banana up in the air into a semi-punishable approach like grab or nair/zair KNOWING that the banana will fall down eventually, use this knowledge as a basis for counter-psychology play (does the diddy wanna punish me, does he have an obsession to catch all bananas, is the banana good enough distraction, will the banana save me from a punish, etc.) .
manage what you and your opponent can do based on the time it takes for the banana to drop.
remember that bananas are tools, use them how you see fit. if the tool is in the way then put it aside, or throw it away (use it to see how a diddy reacts to all situations in how u use the banana) (these "habits" are the most exploitable as majority of the time its under muscle memory and most players have difficulty adjusting quickly)
i can tell you MUCH MUCH MORE in person next tourney ill be at with u
-------
on to snake
one reason its difficult to fight snake is he has control of where the grenade is.
he can drop them manually while all other character projectiles cannot. imagine u throwing a banana at diddy and the diddy makes u drop the banana instantly LOL IT BE SO BUSTED...aka grenade busted :\
this matchup i can imagine be insanely campy, like i said before tho any dmg is good dmg. get in what you can not what you need, any aggressive wants can easily backfire into LOADS of %/stock loss.
OniTheWolf
wow you can see ALL THE RUST in that video. i demand a rematch.
dang playing the item game vs diddy is a whole different match. but zach is right oni.
the one with the better item control (including control of tl bombs) will set the pace of the match in this particular match-up.
keep in mind however majority of diddy players will have an exceptional level of knowledge about banana/general item play, you can be creative, however id recommend using bananas as a way to secure a checkmate or punish situation.
-------
tips against banana play imho:
instant toss on shield as a form of pressure, instant toss in general is good, dont air dodge catch youll get ****d up by peanuts/fair/another banana/etc, tho if you plan on air dodge catching mix-up between air dodge z drops/zair/bomb drops into airdodge catch bananas - creativity to cover options, air dodge is just too risky in these type of situations tho. if a diddy is plucking a banana, attack the diddy first he has quite some lag plucking a banana, secure the banana when available. even a boomerang/arrow will suffice, any dmg is good dmg, any lead is a good lead.
use banana as a back-up option to get out of situations, cover what would be punishable into something manageable with a banana. a practicable example would be a soft glidetoss/jumptoss banana up in the air into a semi-punishable approach like grab or nair/zair KNOWING that the banana will fall down eventually, use this knowledge as a basis for counter-psychology play (does the diddy wanna punish me, does he have an obsession to catch all bananas, is the banana good enough distraction, will the banana save me from a punish, etc.) .
manage what you and your opponent can do based on the time it takes for the banana to drop.
remember that bananas are tools, use them how you see fit. if the tool is in the way then put it aside, or throw it away (use it to see how a diddy reacts to all situations in how u use the banana) (these "habits" are the most exploitable as majority of the time its under muscle memory and most players have difficulty adjusting quickly)
i can tell you MUCH MUCH MORE in person next tourney ill be at with u
-------
on to snake
one reason its difficult to fight snake is he has control of where the grenade is.
he can drop them manually while all other character projectiles cannot. imagine u throwing a banana at diddy and the diddy makes u drop the banana instantly LOL IT BE SO BUSTED...aka grenade busted :\
this matchup i can imagine be insanely campy, like i said before tho any dmg is good dmg. get in what you can not what you need, any aggressive wants can easily backfire into LOADS of %/stock loss.
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
Everything DFear said. The naners only game I told you about works for you to learn what you can do with naners. It is no replacement to sparring with a real Diddy main :-)
Mr.Random
Smash Ace
What are some bad MUs for Toon Link?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Zach777
Smash Journeyman
You forgot the disclaimer, Dan.
Just because the MU is bad or good does not mean that the actual tourney match will be hard or easy. It depends more on the two players than it does on the MU.
Sorry, that is not exactly what the BBR(Brawl Backroom) would say as their disclaimer. I don't look at ratios I look at details like the match-up discussions generally tell you to do.
@
Mr.Random
That question should have been put in the Toon Link FAQ & Q&A thread. This thread is where you put videos of yourself playing tourney matchs to get critiqued.
Just because the MU is bad or good does not mean that the actual tourney match will be hard or easy. It depends more on the two players than it does on the MU.
Sorry, that is not exactly what the BBR(Brawl Backroom) would say as their disclaimer. I don't look at ratios I look at details like the match-up discussions generally tell you to do.
@
Mr.Random
That question should have been put in the Toon Link FAQ & Q&A thread. This thread is where you put videos of yourself playing tourney matchs to get critiqued.
No~m
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2014
- Messages
- 19
TL main here, I basically only play singles but I have a video of me playing doubles (friendly balanced doubles tourney at my local smash venue). I came 9th the last two singles tournaments I went to at this place and there's another tourney coming up soon (Dynasty Battles 7) that I want to do well in, so I thought I'd ask for a critique!
http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/551180758
My first set starts at 2:48:42 and ends at 3:03:02, tag "NO~M", and the second set I played is from 4:14:13 - 4:22:05. Watch as much or as little as you like, and keep in mind I'm trying to improve at singles - I know my doubles awareness is pretty bad haha
Thanks!
http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/551180758
My first set starts at 2:48:42 and ends at 3:03:02, tag "NO~M", and the second set I played is from 4:14:13 - 4:22:05. Watch as much or as little as you like, and keep in mind I'm trying to improve at singles - I know my doubles awareness is pretty bad haha
Thanks!
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Hey~
Try again~
Try again~
NH Cody
Smash Champion
marth and dedede are even samus shiek fox and lucario are advantageous
he's right with the rest though...............
he's right with the rest though...............