Toon Link General Information Discussion Thread

[WindMajor]

Toon Link's crawl even had that cute little sound effect in Wind Waker, why can't he crawl? ;_;

 

[Xarreno]

I'd prefer it to be the Deku Leaf if it's not the boomerang. The Skull Hammer would be cool, but Kirby's already got that covered for us, and the Deku Leaf opens up possibilities that he's yet to have, while still being a fair trade for an important projectile.

That's where I fall on this as well, except I think the both of those items wouldn't be in Toon Link's favor.

Tbh, the skull hammer would just be a "strong attack" and wouldn't add to his projectile arsenal. Same goes for the Deku leaf. You would be potentially removing a decent special for one that does absolutely no damage and pushes things away. The only benefit would be being able fly back to the stage as a glide.

Actually, that could be cool, and now that I think about it, what about the Gust Jar? It could be used as a spacing tool to push and pull your opponents while offering some aerial knockback for recovering. Heck, even the Wind Waker itself could've pulled this off since it controls the wind.

Any one of these items would be better for utility and once the boomerang is gone, then it would have been more appropriate to angle T. Links arrows. So then everyone wins!

About the key factors to Toon Link that make him stand out from Link. Yes, they missed target for what would clearly represent WW. Imo, T. Link should have appeared like link did, since that's how he exits dungeons and Link should have materialized just like TP. Although, I agree it would be much flashier to show up with the King of the Red Lions or crashing in from a launch.

The biggest things though, was the fact that he didn't have his Outset clothes or crawling. Another item that could represent the game is the Grapple Hook. That could've been used instead of the hookshot. Speaking of grabs, it would be hard to lift large characters too, so it would've been a nice touch if he was wearing the power bracelets.

Missed opportunities:
-Outset Clothing
-Crawling
-Different Specials or FS
-Intro Stance
-Taunts

 

[Pacack]

Hey, Toon Link fans! I'm working on a project that you might have heard of called Project: Thank You Sakurai! (If you haven't heard of it, you should check it out.) and I'm currently doing a poll to determine which characters should be on the virtual card that we're making for him. I would appreciate it if you guys would check it out here and vote for who you like. The only lock for the card for LoZ right now is Link himself, and Zelda (who is really close to breaking into lock territory), Ganondorf, and Toon Link are all also on the poll and need some support (Toon Link especially needs help). I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to tell me your thoughts

 

[ACDC]

When young link became toon link, I lost interest in him. Not because of his new looks, but rather that he didn't have the same feeling to him when you tried to use the same tactics. His arrows were slightly worse and his boomerang went from one of the most damaging forward b moves of the game (16 or 17 dmg if done properly if I remember) to one of the most insignificant, low knockback low damage moves. This time around I'm hoping toon link will be given emphasis on projectiles as we already have link who's focusing on physical strength and recovery with his new zair.

 

[Morbi]

With characters like Dedede being much more emotive, I would expect Toon Link to get the same treatment. I always thought that his stagnant expressions in Brawl were bothersome given extensive source material pertaining to his facial expressions. Hopefully that changes and Sakurai can invigorate him with personality.

 

[Gugge]

One of his taunts should be him waving to the screen and yell "come on!" Like he does in Wind waker.

 

[Curious Villager]

I thought Toon Link looked pretty emotive already in Brawl. Though I certainly wouldn't be opposed to some more facial expressions. Toon Link is a pretty expressive kid, so I'd like to see him shine in that regard as well.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

I noticed an addition to one of Toon Link's taunts in Pac-Man's trailer.

Now it produces a fairy (as seen in The Wind Waker) to float around him. What was once a blank stare is now... looking at something.

 

[samsparta21]

I noticed an addition to one of Toon Link's taunts in Pac-Man's trailer.

Now it produces a fairy (as seen in The Wind Waker) to float around him. What was once a blank stare is now... looking at something.

I wonder if that was intended in Brawl, but they didn't have time.

 

[Curious Villager]

I noticed an addition to one of Toon Link's taunts in Pac-Man's trailer.

Now it produces a fairy (as seen in The Wind Waker) to float around him. What was once a blank stare is now... looking at something.

Oh gosh this is such a lovely little addition. I did notice Toon Link looking at something, but I never really bothered to take a closer look. Great find! Hope you don't mind if I put this into my sig.

"Inb4 Toon Link is now even more of a clone since he has a taunt that also brings out a fairy!"

I wonder if that was intended in Brawl, but they didn't have time.

I suppose that could have been a possibility now that I think about it. Toon Link was a last minute addition in Brawl after all and that Taunt did look a bit weird as if it was quickly rushed in but with this it makes a whole lot more sense now.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

@ Curious Villager No worries. Now that you bring up similarities to Link, Toon Link doesn't have the new dash attack and backwards roll he does, right? I recall Toon Link using the same ol' dash attack in the Smash Brothers Direct in April, but have no sight if his backwards roll has been updated along with Link.

 

[Curious Villager]

@ Curious Villager No worries. Now that you bring up similarities to Link, Toon Link doesn't have the new dash attack and backwards roll he does, right? I recall Toon Link using the same ol' dash attack in the Smash Brothers Direct in April, but have no sight if his backwards roll has been updated along with Link.

I'm not sure, I haven't really payed that much attention to be honest. But he probably still has his old Brawl dash attack which is fine as that can still differentiate him from Link, even if most changes goes towards him and not Toon Link, Toon Link still gets differentiated from it.

I should look at more gameplay footage though.

 

[Banjodorf]

Have we got any confirmation on his Final Smash yet? Please don't be Triforce Slash...

 

[Curious Villager]

Nope, His dash attack is unchanged compared to Link though so that's good for those who care I guess.

 

[Blackrider213]

For those of you interested, Toon Link is available to play on the 3DS during the Smashfest at Best Buy. It'd be nice to get some testing done hopefully and get to confirm any differences between Link and Toon Link.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Toon Link's actual move set is unchanged from brawl, I didn't get a chance to test his final smash though. Some of the mechanics of his moves are different though

Toon Link's back air now does good damage, but can't combo. Coincidentally the down air for Toon Link spikes at the beginning of the move (or something like that), the neutral air was virtually the same but might have combo system, the up air is useful and I think you might be able to cancel it, and the forward air kills and does a lot of damage.

As for the ground game, the down smash is faster on both sides, the forwards smash feels the exact same (but with more power), and the up smash covers more range. The A-A-A combo auto locks and works fantastically. The forward tilt is really good and sets up a chase game. The down tilt wasn't too useful from what I know, but it did decent damage and came out faster. The up tilt is a combo machine. I landed it multiple times in a row (combo) three or four different times, and I could follow it up with an aerial really well. Oh, and Toon Link's dashing attack did more damage and came out faster and did quite a bit of knockback.

I didn't try Toon Link's grabs, but his projectiles are the same, except I think the bow aims farther from the get go. I almost got the Smash Ball, but my brother beat me to it (and missed).

Overall I think he's pretty good, and his off the stage game will be great. I think he will be an incredible stage defender.

 

[Johnknight1]

Nope, His dash attack is unchanged compared to Link though so that's good for those who care I guess.

It has more range.
[collapse="My Toon Link Impressions"]-First off, I never thought Smash 3DS would be there, thus I never thought I would play them.
-Having said that, when I was handed the 3DS XL by the Nintendo rep, I nearly cried because I knew I finally got a chance to play Toon Link.
-If you know anything about me, you know Toon Link is my favorite video game character, and from 2005 on I supported him full-heartily for Brawl. I ran threads from GameSpot, IGN, GameFAQs, SWF, and lots of smaller sites about him, making movesets, skillsets, and plastyle explanations about how he'd work. Then Brawl happened, and he was better than I hoped, and the only character I seriously played. I knew he'd be a great playable character, but MAN did he have potential.
-So yeah, I didn't expect him back in Smash 4 after Brawl because I'd figure we'd get a new child Link. Then The Wind Waker HD happened, and I got another 2 rounds at him!
-That said I'm a bit disappointed he didn't get a new A-A-A, but it is a bit different, while still functional. It's still a good move.
-The forward tilt felt longer and more useful. I think you can follow up with attacks with it.
-The down tilt was faster, but it seems kinda useless in a way because the air game isn't as good, and it puts the foe in the air. If the air game gets good, maybe you can do a follow up aerial with it. Still, you can do down tilt to up tilt.
-Up tilt is beastly. I could do 3 or 4 in a row on Marth if he was right above me. I think you could setup a lot of aerial "finishers", a up smash finish (I did that and it was great), a classic up B in the air (or ground), or a grab chase.
-neutral Air is mostly the same.
-back Air does more damage, but it has more after lag. It doesn't kill, but the damage and range keeps it relevant.
-Didn't use the z-Air as an attack, but it went pretty far and it's a tether. I tried it in the training mode before a Smash 3DS match.
-up Air kills and does decent damage. It's got slightly less lag than Brawl, but it's quite a bit for the game. Other than that it's the same.
-down Air goes down proportionally (per the game speed) just as fast as it did in Brawl. At the beginning of the move it spikes, just like Link's down Air.
-Up Smash doesn't kill from what I could tell.
-Down air covers more range but doesn't have the whip around effect. I only used it once, however.
-Forward Smash kills early and often. You can still cancel it halfway into the move, which is a fantastic asset.
-Neutral B starts out firing farther. I didn't try to Quickdraw it.
-Down B is basically the same.
-Side B is fairly similar too, except it comes back quicker.
-The Up B goes slightly less high and I don't think it KO's. It might, but I don't know for sure since I missed the top of the move.
-Overall Toon Link felt the same but with more ground game focus, less aerial focus, and his B moves aren't as necessary. I imagine he'll be a great cleanup character when defending the stage, he'll get surprisingly early KO's, and he'll be a combo machine in the ground. He felt fantastic (and DISTINCT) to play as.
-Toon Link has way more offense but he feel a lot lighter.[/collapse]
-I got a 5 fTilt into a fully charged up B into a golden hammer zero to KO combo on my brother's Marth, haha!!!

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I tried quick drawing, or more acurately shda-ing, and couldn't. I'm not sure if the timing is more precise this game or if it's simply impossible.

The quote in my post was John BTW.

 

[Curious Villager]

It has more range.
[collapse="My Toon Link Impressions"]-First off, I never thought Smash 3DS would be there, thus I never thought I would play them.
-Having said that, when I was handed the 3DS XL by the Nintendo rep, I nearly cried because I knew I finally got a chance to play Toon Link.
-If you know anything about me, you know Toon Link is my favorite video game character, and from 2005 on I supported him full-heartily for Brawl. I ran threads from GameSpot, IGN, GameFAQs, SWF, and lots of smaller sites about him, making movesets, skillsets, and plastyle explanations about how he'd work. Then Brawl happened, and he was better than I hoped, and the only character I seriously played. I knew he'd be a great playable character, but MAN did he have potential.
-So yeah, I didn't expect him back in Smash 4 after Brawl because I'd figure we'd get a new child Link. Then The Wind Waker HD happened, and I got another 2 rounds at him!
-That said I'm a bit disappointed he didn't get a new A-A-A, but it is a bit different, while still functional. It's still a good move.
-The forward tilt felt longer and more useful. I think you can follow up with attacks with it.
-The down tilt was faster, but it seems kinda useless in a way because the air game isn't as good, and it puts the foe in the air. If the air game gets good, maybe you can do a follow up aerial with it. Still, you can do down tilt to up tilt.
-Up tilt is beastly. I could do 3 or 4 in a row on Marth if he was right above me. I think you could setup a lot of aerial "finishers", a up smash finish (I did that and it was great), a classic up B in the air (or ground), or a grab chase.
-neutral Air is mostly the same.
-back Air does more damage, but it has more after lag. It doesn't kill, but the damage and range keeps it relevant.
-Didn't use the z-Air as an attack, but it went pretty far and it's a tether. I tried it in the training mode before a Smash 3DS match.
-up Air kills and does decent damage. It's got slightly less lag than Brawl, but it's quite a bit for the game. Other than that it's the same.
-down Air goes down proportionally (per the game speed) just as fast as it did in Brawl. At the beginning of the move it spikes, just like Link's down Air.
-Up Smash doesn't kill from what I could tell.
-Down air covers more range but doesn't have the whip around effect. I only used it once, however.
-Forward Smash kills early and often. You can still cancel it halfway into the move, which is a fantastic asset.
-Neutral B starts out firing farther. I didn't try to Quickdraw it.
-Down B is basically the same.
-Side B is fairly similar too, except it comes back quicker.
-The Up B goes slightly less high and I don't think it KO's. It might, but I don't know for sure since I missed the top of the move.
-Overall Toon Link felt the same but with more ground game focus, less aerial focus, and his B moves aren't as necessary. I imagine he'll be a great cleanup character when defending the stage, he'll get surprisingly early KO's, and he'll be a combo machine in the ground. He felt fantastic (and DISTINCT) to play as.
-Toon Link has way more offense but he feel a lot lighter.[/collapse]
-I got a 5 fTilt into a fully charged up B into a golden hammer zero to KO combo on my brother's Marth, haha!!!

I meant that it wasn't a jump slash from what I've seen but that's great to hear.

I would like to hear some more impressions from some other Toon Link players as well. (I'm not talking in terms of his moveset and all but more about his overall gameplay) Do you feel that he has been buffed or nerved compared to Brawl?

 

[Scamper52596]

I meant that it wasn't a jump slash from what I've seen but that's great to hear.

I would like to hear some more impressions from some other Toon Link players as well. (I'm not talking in terms of his moveset and all but more about his overall gameplay) Do you feel that he has been buffed or nerved compared to Brawl?

Definitely buffed compared to Brawl. He felt better to use. His side dodging is quicker, he retracts his hook shot faster if he misses a grab, his Down Air Sword Thrust that used to bounce off of someone when his sword hit before pogoing one more time now just plows through everyone, which causes more knockback. Imagine if you were able to just hit all three of your opponents with the Down Air Sword Thrust sending them all flying in different directions. His arrows fly farther when just tapping the special button, which will probably be a good way to stop some opponents from rushing. Also his spin attack is just as good as ever, and it looks cooler. I definitely like the tweaks they gave to Toon Link. Hopefully his ability to move quickly and dish out many projectiles will help him to stand up for himself as a worthy fighter.

 

[Curious Villager]

Definitely buffed compared to Brawl. He felt better to use. His side dodging is quicker, he retracts his hook shot faster if he misses a grab, his Down Air Sword Thrust that used to bounce off of someone when his sword hit before pogoing one more time now just plows through everyone, which causes more knockback. Imagine if you were able to just hit all three of your opponents with the Down Air Sword Thrust sending them all flying in different directions. His arrows fly farther when just tapping the special button, which will probably be a good way to stop some opponents from rushing. Also his spin attack is just as good as ever, and it looks cooler. I definitely like the tweaks they gave to Toon Link. Hopefully his ability to move quickly and dish out many projectiles will help him to stand up for himself as a worthy fighter.

That's definitely good to hear. Can't wait to play as him again in the new games.

 

[Johnknight1]

So I read in a thread yesterday by someone (the guy with the Mewtwo avatar) who is a respectable member, and according to him, Toon Link has the same Final Smash as in Brawl.

I tried quick drawing, or more acurately shda-ing, and couldn't. I'm not sure if the timing is more precise this game or if it's simply impossible.

The quote in my post was John BTW.

LMAO I didn't even realize that!

I would like to hear some more impressions from some other Toon Link players as well. (I'm not talking in terms of his moveset and all but more about his overall gameplay) Do you feel that he has been buffed or nerved compared to Brawl?

I don't mean to sound dominant and like the only one talking (I want to hear other opinions too!), but I felt the game physics and new engine really effected more change than anything.

His up B recovery is worse, yeah, but his z-Air goes pretty far, so I don't think he loses too much steam there. With the less sideways DI and his recovery (and recovery options) being among the best, I think that helps him versus the rest of the roster. Oh, and Toon Link also feels like he's lighter, and obviously in the new engine where KO's happen earlier, he gets KO'd early (so avoid those KO moves).

For offense his projectiles felt a lot less useful, but they still can serve a purpose. His aerial game isn't as strong for racking up damage, but he has some GOOD knockout moves in the air now. Oh, and his neutral and ground game is also really good, despite the fact he has a tether grab (although that's not as crappy anymore; WE CAN GRAB WITH TOON LINK NOW GAIS!!!). His combos are fantastic. They (mostly ground) combos Toon Link has would make Link and Young Link in Melee jealous.

Overall Toon Link felt much better than in Brawl to play as, and balance-wise he felt like he's moved up compared to the rest of the roster.

However, I must say a lot of the roster looked to have been "bumped up" from Brawl. I say this because we only have 4 of the top 10 on the Brawl tiers playable in the demos (those 4 being Olimar, Marth, Pikachu, and ZSS), and how most of the veterans returning reside in the lowest parts of the Brawl tier list (we have 5 of the 8 in the Hyrule tier).

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't mean to sound dominant and like the only one talking (I want to hear other opinions too!), but I felt the game physics and new engine really effected more change than anything.

His up B recovery is worse, yeah, but his z-Air goes pretty far, so I don't think he loses too much steam there. With the less sideways DI and his recovery (and recovery options) being among the best, I think that helps him versus the rest of the roster. Oh, and Toon Link also feels like he's lighter, and obviously in the new engine where KO's happen earlier, he gets KO'd early (so avoid those KO moves).

For offense his projectiles felt a lot less useful, but they still can serve a purpose. His aerial game isn't as strong for racking up damage, but he has some GOOD knockout moves in the air now. Oh, and his neutral and ground game is also really good, despite the fact he has a tether grab (although that's not as crappy anymore; WE CAN GRAB WITH TOON LINK NOW GAIS!!!). His combos are fantastic. They (mostly ground) combos Toon Link has would make Link and Young Link in Melee jealous.

Overall Toon Link felt much better than in Brawl to play as, and balance-wise he felt like he's moved up compared to the rest of the roster.

However, I must say a lot of the roster looked to have been "bumped up" from Brawl. I say this because we only have 4 of the top 10 on the Brawl tiers playable in the demos (those 4 being Olimar, Marth, Pikachu, and ZSS), and how most of the veterans returning reside in the lowest parts of the Brawl tier list (we have 5 of the 8 in the Hyrule tier).

No it's okay, I love hearing more about how Toon Link has been getting on gameplay wise instead of people complaining about how his up special isn't the Deku Leaf and whatnot for the millionth time. This is very interesting information and makes me pretty curious to see how he could possibly end up in the final product.

Thanks for telling me more about it JohnKnight1.

Also this may be a little trivial, but did you check his taunts as well? Did you see his updated Fairy taunt he apparently now has?

 

[Johnknight1]

No it's okay, I love hearing more about how Toon Link has been getting on gameplay wise instead of people complaining about how his up special isn't the Deku Leaf and whatnot. This is very interesting information and makes me pretty curious to see how he could possibly end up in the final product.

Thanks for telling me more about it JohnKnight1.

Also this may be a little trivial, but did you check his taunts as well? Did you see the Fairy taunt he apparently now has?

The Deku Leaf is the worst idea ever. Why would anyone want a character with high tier recovery to have a better one like that=??? That'd be broken.

As for the taunts, I tried the other 2 taunts, and they're the same, except I think a few sound effects sound different.

Also, this may sound insignificant, but Toon Link's movements are super crisp, his animations are well done, oh, and his facial reactions are great. When he crashed against the screen when my brother KO'd me I lol'd so hard.

BTW, I conferred with my brother, and if we play Smash 3DS, we're testing out how Marth's down air and Toon Link's down air work. We want to see if both spike/meteor smash, as well as potentially "bounce" people off the ground like Mario's forward air now does.

I will also now be sure to test all the taunts as well.

 

[Scamper52596]

So I read in a thread yesterday by someone (the guy with the Mewtwo avatar) who is a respectable member, and according to him, Toon Link has the same Final Smash as in Brawl.

LMAO I didn't even realize that!

I don't mean to sound dominant and like the only one talking (I want to hear other opinions too!), but I felt the game physics and new engine really effected more change than anything.

His up B recovery is worse, yeah, but his z-Air goes pretty far, so I don't think he loses too much steam there. With the less sideways DI and his recovery (and recovery options) being among the best, I think that helps him versus the rest of the roster. Oh, and Toon Link also feels like he's lighter, and obviously in the new engine where KO's happen earlier, he gets KO'd early (so avoid those KO moves).

For offense his projectiles felt a lot less useful, but they still can serve a purpose. His aerial game isn't as strong for racking up damage, but he has some GOOD knockout moves in the air now. Oh, and his neutral and ground game is also really good, despite the fact he has a tether grab (although that's not as crappy anymore; WE CAN GRAB WITH TOON LINK NOW GAIS!!!). His combos are fantastic. They (mostly ground) combos Toon Link has would make Link and Young Link in Melee jealous.

Overall Toon Link felt much better than in Brawl to play as, and balance-wise he felt like he's moved up compared to the rest of the roster.

However, I must say a lot of the roster looked to have been "bumped up" from Brawl. I say this because we only have 4 of the top 10 on the Brawl tiers playable in the demos (those 4 being Olimar, Marth, Pikachu, and ZSS), and how most of the veterans returning reside in the lowest parts of the Brawl tier list (we have 5 of the 8 in the Hyrule tier).

I'm just a little curious as to why you believe his projectiles felt a little less useful. Could you possibly go into a little more detail about that?

 

[LunchPolice]

Thanks for the impressions you guys! My brother mains Toon Link so it's nice to see what I'm up against. > : D

 

[Johnknight1]

I CAN CONFIRM THAT TOON LINK'S DOWN AIR DOES SPIKE!!!

I tested it out thrice, and it worked each time.

It also bounces foes at a certain percentages, although I don't knock if you can tech out of it.

Also, Z-Air, Forward Air, and Neutral Air all have ZERO, I repeat ZERO landing lag (but down air, kinda up air, and especially back air have landing lag). You can do so many combos.

Oh, and the fTilt does have some grab and chase follow up potential, and if you footsie right, you can get a pretty safe attempt at a nAir. If you go in just high enough and space, I think most if not all characters can't grab you. Unless they time out better than you with a dodge roll or running, you can get a safe hit in. Worst case scenario if you don't get owned at being timed out is you hit a shield and push them back. Even then you can still followup with ground or aerial attacks with more offense since the nAir is lagless, and unless you are SUPER SLOW to react, you won't get punished as a result of this (unless it's a 2v1, but that's your fault for that happening, lol!).

I also found out you can aim the boomerang like in Brawl a bit. They got vertically upwards at a potentially extremely high degree. They also never go below a certain threshold. I also think there's chance they might track opponents, but that's a guess that's probably wrong (but I felt it work mentioning).

However, the boomerang does stun quite a lot. It feels like Link's 64 boomerang. I only tested this the 1st time you used it; I wish I could test multiple usages with the stale moves negation (which is 8 moves [of any move] before refreshing BTW).

As for proof of the stun of the boomerang, I have a story for it. On Arena Ferox during a match with my brother (who again used Marth), my boomerang turned around at an angle he and I weren't expected, hit him, and I immediately went for a forward air that lead to a combo ending with me KO'ing him at roughly 83% with a forward smash.

The combo went side B (coming back) > forward Air (no lag cancel because I was too high for that) > up Tilit (okay this was a read rather than a true combo, but everything else was a true combos) > up Tilt > up Tilt > Z-air (lag cancel) > forward Smash (double hit variation) > KO > The stare taunt (now with a FAIRY!).

Holy crap that combo was SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD!!! It felt amazing to perform. The 4 or 5 people watching it were utterly shocked, including people who didn't know how I did any of that. My brother told me afterwards he thought my Toon Link there played like 64 Link, lmao!!!

Oh, and about the Z-air... it goes pretty far. It covers a lot of ground, like I'd say 30% of Battlefield. It retracts and comes back like it does in The Wind Waker (none of the "falling chain" effects), and it has maybe twice the miss lag of a non-tether grab. Also, all of Toon Link's grab throws function the same way, minus having good followups (like a lot of the cast). But yeah, use Z-air at long ranges. It's a risk-free attack if you're far away, since it has that essentially automatic Z-air lag cancelling (which is INSANE!!).

I tested out the bombs (useful for zoning) and bow & arrows (useful for walls if you time right; remember, you can't short hop with them unless you want major lag!), and I did find some use for them. However, those look like something that if they remain relatively the same (I think they will), they will be something that the competitive Toon Link community will need to figure out how to use as a secondary part of the moveset.

So far, Toon Link's dominant aerial lagless moves and ground game are really the key.

Sorry if this was a long read, but I got a lot more in this time. I only got 1 match in, but I did about 2 minutes of the training stage to test data on stale-moves negation and that other stale move-like thing (I'm bad with these things' names), spikes, bounces, physics, reactions, etc.

A lot of the reactions are very similar to Brawl, but unlike Brawl, almost everything combos (except the bAir, down B, and neutral B, which in Brawl was where most of the Toon Link combos stem from [directly or indirectly], lmao!), the moves that have upwards knockback moves that are supposed to KO send foes higher (too bad the roofs are too high for that to consistently work), and the horizontal knockback moves that are supposed to KO do that any time without the stale-moves negation (with stale-moves negation sans the fSmash they don't really work).

But yeah, always remember the stale-moves negation count is 8. Just use 8 of any move to cancel it, just like in Brawl (I hope I'm not getting the stale-moves negation name mixed up with that other similar thing that is slipping my mind right now).

Anyways, sorry if this ran on forever, but I hope it was informative. I'm just really excited for Toon Link, and I think you should be too!

I'm just a little curious as to why you believe his projectiles felt a little less useful. Could you possibly go into a little more detail about that?

Projectiles aren't as useful in Smash WiiU or 3DS. They aren't as dominant because that brand of campy style no longer works since like you can't short hop projectile fire as a useful means of offense.

 

[Scamper52596]

I CAN CONFIRM THAT TOON LINK'S DOWN AIR DOES SPIKE!!!

I tested it out thrice, and it worked each time.

It also bounces foes at a certain percentages, although I don't knock if you can tech out of it.

Also, Z-Air, Forward Air, and Neutral Air all have ZERO, I repeat ZERO landing lag (but down air, kinda up air, and especially back air have landing lag). You can do so many combos.

Oh, and the fTilt does have some grab and chase follow up potential, and if you footsie right, you can get a pretty safe attempt at a nAir. If you go in just high enough and space, I think most if not all characters can't grab you. Unless they time out better than you with a dodge roll or running, you can get a safe hit in. Worst case scenario if you don't get owned at being timed out is you hit a shield and push them back. Even then you can still followup with ground or aerial attacks with more offense since the nAir is lagless, and unless you are SUPER SLOW to react, you won't get punished as a result of this (unless it's a 2v1, but that's your fault for that happening, lol!).

I also found out you can aim the boomerang like in Brawl a bit. They got vertically upwards at a potentially extremely high degree. They also never go below a certain threshold. I also think there's chance they might track opponents, but that's a guess that's probably wrong (but I felt it work mentioning).

However, the boomerang does stun quite a lot. It feels like Link's 64 boomerang. I only tested this the 1st time you used it; I wish I could test multiple usages with the stale moves negation (which is 8 moves [of any move] before refreshing BTW).

As for proof of the stun of the boomerang, I have a story for it. On Arena Ferox during a match with my brother (who again used Marth), my boomerang turned around at an angle he and I weren't expected, hit him, and I immediately went for a forward air that lead to a combo ending with me KO'ing him at roughly 83% with a forward smash.

The combo went side B (coming back) > fAir (no lag cancel because I was too high for that) > fTilit (okay this was a read rather than a true combo, but everything else was a true combos) > fTilt > fTilt > Z-air (lag cancel) > fSmash (double hit variation) > KO > The stare taunt (now with a FAIRY!).

Holy crap that combo was SOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD!!! It felt amazing to perform. The 4 or 5 people watching it were utterly shocked, including people who didn't know how I did any of that. My brother told me afterwards he thought my Toon Link there played like 64 Link, lmao!!!

Oh, and about the Z-air... it goes pretty far. It covers a lot of ground, like I'd say 30% of Battlefield. It retracts and comes back like it does in The Wind Waker (none of the "falling chain" effects), and it has maybe twice the miss lag of a non-tether grab. Also, all of Toon Link's grab throws function the same way, minus having good followups (like a lot of the cast). But yeah, use Z-air at long ranges. It's a risk-free attack if you're far away, since it has that essentially automatic Z-air lag cancelling (which is INSANE!!).

I tested out the bombs (useful for zoning) and bow & arrows (useful for walls if you time right; remember, you can't short hop with them unless you want major lag!), and I did find some use for them. However, those look like something that if they remain relatively the same (I think they will), they will be something that the competitive Toon Link community will need to figure out how to use as a secondary part of the moveset.

So far, Toon Link's dominant aerial lagless moves and ground game are really the key.

Sorry if this was a long read, but I got a lot more in this time. I only got 1 match in, but I did about 2 minutes of the training stage to test data on stale-moves negation and that other stale move-like thing (I'm bad with these things' names), spikes, bounces, physics, reactions, etc.

A lot of the reactions are very similar to Brawl, but unlike Brawl, almost everything combos (except the bAir, down B, and neutral B, which in Brawl was where most of the Toon Link combos stem from [directly or indirectly], lmao!), the moves that have upwards knockback moves that are supposed to KO send foes higher (too bad the roofs are too high for that to consistently work), and the horizontal knockback moves that are supposed to KO do that any time without the stale-moves negation (with stale-moves negation sans the fSmash they don't really work).

But yeah, always remember the stale-moves negation count is 8. Just use 8 of any move to cancel it, just like in Brawl (I hope I'm not getting the stale-moves negation name mixed up with that other similar thing that is slipping my mind right now).

Anyways, sorry if this ran on forever, but I hope it was informative. I'm just really excited for Toon Link, and I think you should be too!

Projectiles aren't as useful in Smash WiiU or 3DS. They aren't as dominant because that brand of campy style no longer works since like you can't short hop projectile fire as a useful means of offense.

So do you know what happens if you use Toon Link's down air spike over the edge? I didn't try it, but I figured that even if I hit someone with it over the edge of a stage, I'll just plummet to my death due to the fact that I haven't been able to bounce off characters once I land on them. I just plow through them and keep moving down until I hit a solid platform or the stage floor.

 

[Johnknight1]

So do you know what happens if you use Toon Link's down air spike over the edge? I didn't try it, but I figured that even if I hit someone with it over the edge of a stage, I'll just plummet to my death due to the fact that I haven't been able to bounce off characters once I land on them. I just plow through them and keep moving down until I hit a solid platform or the stage floor.

I did it once to a sandbag where I did it at the right end of the stage and I spiked the sandbag but landed on the very edge of the platform.

Regardless, I imagine the falling cancel that was in Brawl exists in Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS. You might additionally may be able to cancel said move with an Up B. It's a shame I didn't test either of those things, and I didn't consider them until I was home.

 

[LunchPolice]

Okay, now I'm a little scared. Toon Link sounds like a beast! I have to wonder if OG Link is a bad choice to fight him with.

 

[Scamper52596]

I did it once to a sandbag where I did it at the right end of the stage and I spiked the sandbag but landed on the very edge of the platform.

Regardless, I imagine the falling cancel that was in Brawl exists in Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS. You might additionally may be able to cancel said move with an Up B. It's a shame I didn't test either of those things, and I didn't consider them until I was home.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions on how Toon Link plays this time around. I'm definitely looking forward to using him when the 3DS version releases later this year.

 

[Johnknight1]

Okay, now I'm a little scared. Toon Link sounds like a beast! I have to wonder if OG Link is a bad choice to fight him with.

Well Link had good mix ups and all, but his ground game and combos were clearly not up to par with Toon Link's. Toon Link still has the better nAir, bAir, fAir, fSmash, and uSmash. Fortunatley for Link he still has that Z-air with BROKEN (aka Smash 64) lag cancelling like Toon Link has.

The only thing that could make Link better is his Gale Boomerang or if his power KO moves were OP. That is barring major changes in balancing after the demos of course. Other than that, Toon Links is a lock for being the better Link, continuing a streak the child Links have had since Melee.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions on how Toon Link plays this time around. I'm definitely looking forward to using him when the 3DS version releases later this year.

We also have to be aware of changes. They may change every attack to have lag cancelling to where every attack has it, more punishes for camping (Toon Link can't do that too well from what I can gather), and give us more mobility on the ground with less commitment.

Although to be fair on the last point, all the Brawl quick movement options still exist. It is just the Melee players don't know them, and complained because they don't just complained because they don't know them. The Brawl players that play the right characters did, and fortunately I knew one of the best Brawl Fox's ever and hung with him most of the time, and he showed me all the cool crap. Of course I knew a lot of it from my time playing Brawl in tournaments from 2008-2009.

Oh, and 64 players will be used to how to combo as well. Really it's the "Melee only" players that will have the biggest adjustments, which is weird, because the "flow" of the game is closest to Melee (although the DI is closest to 64 and the mechanics of how the game function are closest to Brawl).

Oh, and the most important thing the team needs to do: remove buffering. That would give both games have infinite combos galore. I don't want Smash 3DS and WiiU to be another MvC3 or Killer Instinct (the older ones), no offense.

But yeah, this gameplay stuff might sound off topic, but it would be hugely impactful on Toon Link. With buffering I'm sure if I figured out how to use it like I did in Brawl (I've since forgotten), I am POSITIVE I could figure out infinites much like how I figured out combos with Toon Link on Wednesday and Saturday, and I'm sure many of you would. These future upcoming gameplay changes could have a gigantic impact on how the game and thus its' characters work, and Toon Link is chief among them.

 

[Moon Monkey]

 

[Krazy4Krash]

That tether reach, I love it. No slack in the grab is funny, it's like Smash 64 now.

I'd be surprised if the Fire Arrows weren't a customisation option. It seems so obvious to put in...

 

[Curious Villager]

Lol I'm loving how the hookshot works like it did in Smash 64 and the Zelda games again. Also that tether is indeed quite amazing that he can do it from such a distance now.

Also, I'm fairly sure the Fire Arrows as well as the Ice Arrows will be a part of his costumisation.


Edit: Actually speaking of his costumisation. I think/hope he will potentially get these modifications.

Neutral special: Normal Arrows, Fire Arrows, Ice Arrows.
Side special: Normal Boomerang, Fire Boomerang, Ice Boomerang.
Up special: Spin Attack, Great Spin, Hurricane Spin.
Down Special: Normal Bombs, Remote Bombs, Bomb Chu.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

The hurricane spin should definetly be able to make him move around (like in the actual game) I was hoping for that to be his default spin in ground though. ;^;

 

[Shirarisun]

I know it probably won't happen, but I would like Toon Link to use the Four Sword in some way. Maybe as a final smash?

 

[Johnknight1]

Guys I just want you to know, that if you plan on using Toon Link, prepare to spam Z-Air.

Literally it setups combos, KO's, and extends combos like you can't believe. It also can be a defensive move to protect you that still somehow is super offensive.

Literally with that move, there is no reason not to basically be a rundown character, so long as you use it to space yourself from your opponent and don't let yourself be open to grabs (against characters with tether grabs this may be a problem, unless you have faster reaction times than your opponent and you don't get super well read).

 

[Scamper52596]

Guys I just want you to know, that if you plan on using Toon Link, prepare to spam Z-Air.

Literally it setups combos, KO's, and extends combos like you can't believe. It also can be a defensive move to protect you that still somehow is super offensive.

Literally with that move, there is no reason not to basically be a rundown character, so long as you use it to space yourself from your opponent and don't let yourself be open to grabs (against characters with tether grabs this may be a problem, unless you have faster reaction times than your opponent and you don't get super well read).

Good to hear. That was one move I tried in the demo, but unfortunately didn't land a hit. I'll be sure to experiment with it when I get the game.

 

[tetraforce]

Well Link had good mix ups and all, but his ground game and combos were clearly not up to par with Toon Link's. Toon Link still has the better nAir, bAir, fAir, fSmash, and uSmash. Fortunatley for Link he still has that Z-air with BROKEN (aka Smash 64) lag cancelling like Toon Link has.

The only thing that could make Link better is his Gale Boomerang or if his power KO moves were OP. That is barring major changes in balancing after the demos of course. Other than that, Toon Links is a lock for being the better Link, continuing a streak the child Links have had since Melee.

We also have to be aware of changes. They may change every attack to have lag cancelling to where every attack has it, more punishes for camping (Toon Link can't do that too well from what I can gather), and give us more mobility on the ground with less commitment.

Although to be fair on the last point, all the Brawl quick movement options still exist. It is just the Melee players don't know them, and complained because they don't just complained because they don't know them. The Brawl players that play the right characters did, and fortunately I knew one of the best Brawl Fox's ever and hung with him most of the time, and he showed me all the cool crap. Of course I knew a lot of it from my time playing Brawl in tournaments from 2008-2009.

Oh, and 64 players will be used to how to combo as well. Really it's the "Melee only" players that will have the biggest adjustments, which is weird, because the "flow" of the game is closest to Melee (although the DI is closest to 64 and the mechanics of how the game function are closest to Brawl).

Oh, and the most important thing the team needs to do: remove buffering. That would give both games have infinite combos galore. I don't want Smash 3DS and WiiU to be another MvC3 or Killer Instinct (the older ones), no offense.

But yeah, this gameplay stuff might sound off topic, but it would be hugely impactful on Toon Link. With buffering I'm sure if I figured out how to use it like I did in Brawl (I've since forgotten), I am POSITIVE I could figure out infinites much like how I figured out combos with Toon Link on Wednesday and Saturday, and I'm sure many of you would. These future upcoming gameplay changes could have a gigantic impact on how the game and thus its' characters work, and Toon Link is chief among them.

Regular link is rank higher than young link in melee