Toon Link AT's Thread: A Vast New Sea to Explore! [In Progress]

[Deleted member]

I thought that was implied lol, and I mentioned before but if you combine that with what I found, you can punish Sheiks for fthrowing you so you dont get combo'd.

 

[Deleted member]

UH SO I THINK I FOUND INVINCIBOMBING
KINDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAMzZkxVnM&feature=youtu.be

 

[deech]

UH SO I THINK I FOUND INVINCIBOMBING
KINDA

Interesting...?
Not really invincibombing, but a glitch to have an extra bomb after a throw? I'm kind of confused as to how that played out.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah...not sure how to emulate it lol

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

UH SO I THINK I FOUND INVINCIBOMBING
KINDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAMzZkxVnM&feature=youtu.be

Mota found this ages ago, once again, in the Toon Link thread.

 

[Deleted member]

Mota found this ages ago, once again, in the Toon Link thread.

Link?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Toon Link
http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-link.324207/page-14#post-17720891

 

[Blueye]

Toon Link
http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-link.324207/page-14#post-17720891

Any more discoveries that are in that thread? might as well port them over here to have a nice comprehensive list of everything. The invicibomb 'glitch' looks like a glitch that happens during a bomb fake out and only with some special frames (after bomb hit and before the aerial comes out).

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

There's probably a bunch of stuff that I won't remember until the memory is triggered. That sounds more like a job for the TC to do anyway, because well, that's the point of this thread, isn't it?
Going off my past knowledge and based on what I've seen, the glitch occurs because there is a very small amount of time after the explosion hitbox and animation of the bomb is triggered when the bomb itself is actually still present, and if you manage to catch the bomb in any way during this very small time window (it could be like one frame), then you get this glitch. It's like a phoenix bomb, a bomb that is re-born out of the fire and ashes of it's own death.
Actually, that's what I'm going to call it from now on. The Phoenix Bomb.

Would anyone like me to name anything else? Your children perhaps?

 

[deech]

I'm just here to ask a technical question about AT practicality:

Is it even worth learning the IZAC > BLC if I can just do a dash > turn > momentum sh > bfo > aerial > blc? Feels a lot more fluid in my opinion and more realistic/practical?

Are there any uses where izac would be more ideal?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

OoS or if you don't want to waste time with the RAR plus the throw. It's just faster, that's all.
Of course if you have the time, you're absolutely right and may as well do it that way as it would be easier. Utilising one of the three main types of BFO will no doubt be the more common way to use a BLC.

 

[Turbopasta]

Thanks for making this thread. I played lots of TL in Brawl and PM but I never looked into these bomb tricks until now. I didn't know about JC throw and BFO at all, and I can safely say I'm going to be using those alot in the future. BFOing the bomb back and forth probably isn't smart but it is an effective post-kill taunt.

 

[Xmark]

UH SO I THINK I FOUND INVINCIBOMBING
KINDA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAMzZkxVnM&feature=youtu.be

I think i've done some like that or similar the other day. not sure how but still pretty cool. and may I say that mario was getting smacked!! loool like damn bro, straight stylin' on em. xD

 

[Yackabean]

Zan taking toon link notes off me with the double up tilt to pivot grab xD that was like my signature move to people who drop down from up tilt strings in brawl

But yeah we need a name for this bomb duplicating / cloning stuff. Any good recommendations, i'll get adding some of these new discoveries soon when I have computer access, sorry it's been such a slow week and a bit for fixing and updating the thread guys.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It's not a duplication or a clone bomb. It's the exact same bomb. It just doesn't disappear the very moment it 'explodes'. Hence the name I suggested.

 

[PRGN]

No worries.
Anyone tried this one:
Shorthop+airdodge -> Footstool -> (Bomb Throw) -> ??? -> ???

 

[Yackabean]

No worries.
Anyone tried this one:
Shorthop+airdodge -> Footstool -> (Bomb Throw) -> ??? -> ???

Seems kind of like a legit mix up for airdodging in to someone actually. Can't really follow up the bomb though but It is interesting to note.

 

[Yackabean]

This is indeed something you can do with the bomb lag cancel. It is not listed on its own with the bomb lag cancel but it is mentioned in the Dair Stall. So the bomb Lag Cancel can also be used as Bomb hitstun cancel

Should actually put credit to reminding me to put this in to the thread, thanks.

Edit: Alright just finished making a few adjustments. Slowly and steadily this thread is coming a long. Thanks for bearing with me folks, make sure to keep this active and discussing!

 

[Yackabean]

Sorry I haven't had time to edit and update things recently guys. I'm waiting on a computer and I shouldn't have to wait much longer.

I have been thinking in recent terms of the 1.0.4 patch, should I even bother include BLC if it is gone or give it some sort of separate section for version differences?

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry I haven't had time to edit and update things recently guys. I'm waiting on a computer and I shouldn't have to wait much longer.

I have been thinking in recent terms of the 1.0.4 patch, should I even bother include BLC if it is gone or give it some sort of separate section for version differences?

It's probably not a good idea to take it out entirely. Having a separate section for version differences would probably be better.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@ Yackabean : I was going to have a separate section in the smash dictionary listing all the jargon that was patched out, so if you're worried about people going back, reading old threads/posts and not knowing what 'BLC' is all about and why they can't do it, then I should have that covered. Just send them over to my place. Of course, it's up to you if you want to do the same.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yo, I've been slowly using Toon Link without BLC and I think he will still be viable. I might have overreacted lol.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So I've been thinking, is there actually as much point in doing an invincibomb any more? I mean let's just step back and think about it for a moment. The one thing it has going for it is being better at avoiding getting hit. Like, that's the one time we should be using it now. This is because it's almost always going to be a better idea to simply throw the bomb at them at point-blank range. Simply throwing it is slower initially, sure, but then it's way quicker afterwards (pretty much guaranteeing a follow-up) and we don't get hit by the blast any more in that situation. Not to mention that airdodging now has this lag issue.
I know I must be missing something else. I have to think pros as well as and cons here. Ok, so invincibomb you can cancel into an attack earlier, but it's limited to a Zair. (But then why not just Z-drop and have all your options immediately?) I'd also imagine that doing an invinvibomb would actually be even safer now in that the z-dropped bomb that lingers around after the airdodge will still hit people only now it won't hit us.
Even so, I can't shake this nagging feeling that point-blank throws will probably be our go-to option now, and invincibomb will be relegated to 'I messed up, get me out of this situation'.
I'd say it's better at landing because the z-drop means the bomb will stay out as a deterrent for longer, but then you've got that stupid airdodge landing lag, so simply z-dropping would be better in this situation.
Invincibomb got a nerf when airdodging was given a nerf, and throwing the bomb at point-blank range got a buff. What now?

 

[Yackabean]

@ Fox Is Openly Deceptive : The coolest thing about throwing bombs at point blank range is we can grab them at low percents now. For iBomb I agree, the whole airdodge issue is too much, if they get hit by the bomb we're not affected and can use an ariel. Problem is catching bombs is piss easy now to other foes so the can easily catch it the moment we z-drop it giving them a free ariel option and our bomb to throw back and put us in shield pressure. Z-dropping in general is bad now...

The reason BLC improved Toon Link defensively was his option to fast fall zair with a bomb and still be safe with a bomb in hand. Normal zair kinda leaves us open if people shield it now and with BLC being supossedly gone it's going to make our landing options the worse it has ever been. Toon had bad landing options in brawl but my god he will suffer after this patch.

About making BLC a dictionary term, I am all fine for this after it is truly confirmed it is gone.

@ TLMSheikant : yes BLC to some point has been exaggerated as his only tool. toon is sill somewhat usable but after this patch we'll all see how crippled and slow our camping and shield pressure game is. It made toon link keep up with the high tiers. Without it, he's as mediocre as shulk's metagame just now. ANd trust me shulk is not a good mediocre.

 

[PRGN]

Not really an advanced tech, but worth mentioning:

While messing around and I found that this would make a pretty decent combo-starter with
many possible followups:

While holding bomb:
SHorthop Instant BombThrow (Down-Special) >> {anything}

You can do it while dashing, out of shield, or after shorthop airdodge or whenever.
The coolest thing is that you can just keep holding 'down' on the circlepad
and just quickly slide from 'Y (jump)' to 'B (special)' >> followed by any move, N-air works great.
When hitting from close range, you're opponent will get sucked towards you btw.

Normally when throwing with 'A', you would JC throw when timed wrong.
With this you don't have to worry about that, and it also just gives toonlink a lot more control
over his bombs.

 

[deech]

Not really an advanced tech, but worth mentioning:

While messing around and I found that this would make a pretty decent combo-starter with
many possible followups:

While holding bomb:
SHorthop Instant BombThrow (Down-Special) >> {anything}

You can do it while dashing, out of shield, or after shorthop airdodge or whenever.
The coolest thing is that you can just keep holding 'down' on the circlepad
and just quickly slide from 'Y (jump)' to 'B (special)' >> followed by any move, N-air works great.
When hitting from close range, you're opponent will get sucked towards you btw.

Normally when throwing with 'A', you would JC throw when timed wrong.
With this you don't have to worry about that, and it also just gives toonlink a lot more control
over his bombs.

Thing about this is that it only works against tall characters.
For the most parts, you are going to need to throw the bomb from a further distance or while coming down from your short hop.

I'd still prefer a JC forward throw into a short hop aerial.

 

[PRGN]

Well it's basically also just a much safer way to shorthop and instantly throw a bomb, works on every character.
Since a downB-throw always throws the bomb forward and does not jumpcancel, it makes it
a lot easier to (for example): Dashing towards >> shorthop away + throw bomb forward at the same time,
which can then be followed up by an arrow or Nair-fastfall or anything else.

A Fullhop+DownB -throw can easily lead into a killing F-air or U-air at around 100%

I think hop+DownB -throw can be a nice alternative to JCthrow.
Very easy to execute like JCthrow, and definitely works great
when mixed up with the rest of the spamcake.

 

[Yackabean]

Tempted to add a basic combo list in the thread. Thoughts?

 

[Dr[?}]

Tempted to add a basic combo list in the thread. Thoughts?

i'm all for it

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be interested in seeing a list of combos, too, especially anything that can combo out of the first two hits of TL's jab.

 

[Keytrun]

It looks like it's been a while since the initial post has been updated. Is it fully current with all of the ATs around this forum including the other topics? I'm just trying to get a handle on some of the different ATs. I really like toon link and I'm great at spamming projectiles and landing aerial bomb combos. My problem with him is that landing lag seems really bad.

Edit: Also I wish there was a distinction between what works for 3ds vs Wii U. Does that list work for Wii U?

 

[Blueye]

The bomb Lag cancel does not work anymore for both versions (1.0.4 on the 3DS 'fixed' that) together with some other AT's.

As for combo's, up throw into uair is a good combo on early percents. SH Bomb throw into fair also works really well if you somehow hit them (then shielding it wont really work unless they drop shield to react to it).

 

[Deleted member]

It looks like it's been a while since the initial post has been updated. Is it fully current with all of the ATs around this forum including the other topics? I'm just trying to get a handle on some of the different ATs. I really like toon link and I'm great at spamming projectiles and landing aerial bomb combos. My problem with him is that landing lag seems really bad.

Edit: Also I wish there was a distinction between what works for 3ds vs Wii U. Does that list work for Wii U?

I'm pretty sure all of TL's ATs except his newly discovered "ftilt with a bomb" one (on the Wii U version, pull of a bomb, then press left or right on the cstick while crouching) can be done in both versions. As for whether the OP is fully-updated or not, I'd check myself if my browser didn't keep crashing every time I tried going to a different page on this thread. Last I checked the thread wasn't fully updated, and if it looks like it hasn't been edited in a while then it's probably still out-of-date.

 

[Yackabean]

I really need to update this but I've been super busy with school work and not had much time. I'm barely keeping up posting around the Toon Link boards in general trying to keep my answers short.

Anyway I have a few ideas for a strings + combos section so I'll start planning it out.

 

[Keytrun]

"SH Bomb Throw" ? Is there a place I can find these terms?

 

[Visionary]

Is someone familiar with the Dsmash spike? Playing with a friend who mains Toon Link he managed to spike me downards instead of upwards with his Dsmash. It happened a few times, but we didn't find out how it works. I must say it's pretty insane since it can put people under stage level with very low %

 

[Keytrun]

I did this about a week ago: http://gfycat.com/InfamousCrazyBrocketdeer

Is that what you're referring to? If so the timing has to be pretty perfect I think. Honestly I didn't even mean to do it!

 

[deech]

Is someone familiar with the Dsmash spike? Playing with a friend who mains Toon Link he managed to spike me downards instead of upwards with his Dsmash. It happened a few times, but we didn't find out how it works. I must say it's pretty insane since it can put people under stage level with very low %

First hit of dsmash is supposed to knock them back into second hit for upwards launch, but if it misses, they're thrown horizontally backwards and down.

 

[Keytrun]

First hit of dsmash is supposed to knock them back into second hit for upwards launch, but if it misses, they're thrown horizontally backwards and down.

So any tips for getting it to consistently knock them way off the stage?

 

[Deleted member]

So any tips for getting it to consistently knock them way off the stage?

I heard it only works on a few characters. Also, in my experience, the closer you are to the ledge, the better. For me it's worked the best when I've been about at the spot of the edge where you're at when you do a normal get-up from the ledge or closer.