Tomorrow's Patch (15th)

[LancerStaff]

I never said it was impossible. I said it wasn't going to happen.

So that's just a baseless assumption.

 

[Doruge]

So that's just a baseless assumption.

It's an assumption, yes, but it's hardly baseless.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Praying that Diddy gets buffed and Greninja nerfed

 

[LancerStaff]

It's an assumption, yes, but it's hardly baseless.

You realize they nerfed all the popular top tiers in the last patch, right? Basically everybody but the then-sleeper Diddy.

 

[Doruge]

You realize they nerfed all the popular top tiers in the last patch, right? Basically everybody but the then-sleeper Diddy.

I'm strictly talking about a nerf to Diddy's grab combos. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last patch did not nerf any top character's grab game.

 

[ActionShot]

Any part of a character is subject to change, you can't assume just because a character's grab game hasn't been changed before that it can't now. Diddy's biggest controversy is his down throw to up air. It's entirely possibly that a change to his throws could occur since that would address the controversy.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm strictly talking about a nerf to Diddy's grab combos. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last patch did not nerf any top character's grab game.

We didn't have, er, notice, a grab game like Diddy's last time. It's the most obvious thing to change.

And I'm not sure either. But all of a sudden you're not sounding so sure of yourself...

 

[PCHU]

Still holding out for them handing out more buffs than nerfs.

 

[Doruge]

We didn't have, er, notice, a grab game like Diddy's last time. It's the most obvious thing to change.

And I'm not sure either. But all of a sudden you're not sounding so sure of yourself...

I disagree. The most obvious change to Diddy would be a nerf to KBG on u-air, and maybe some damage nerfs to monkey flip or f-air. His combos are only considered "OP" because of u-air's knockback anyway.

 

[LancerStaff]

Still holding out for them handing out more buffs than nerfs.

Rather have nerfs myself. That's what's more likely to happen since Sakurai has to keep two sides of Smash in check.

I disagree. The most obvious change to Diddy would be a nerf to KBG on u-air, and maybe some damage nerfs to monkey flip or f-air. His combos are only considered "OP" because of u-air's knockback anyway.

Isn't the whole problem with Diddy that he can always get a follow-up on Dthrow by reacting to the opponent's DI?

 

[PCHU]

Rather have nerfs myself. That's what's more likely to happen since Sakurai has to keep two sides of Smash in check.



Isn't the whole problem with Diddy that he can always get a follow-up on Dthrow by reacting to the opponent's DI?

Why would you rather have nerfs?
I know that's what's more likely to happen, and even though some matchups make me want to rip my eyes out, I wouldn't want someone else's character toned down so mine could catch up.

 

[Doruge]

Isn't the whole problem with Diddy that he can always get a follow-up on Dthrow by reacting to the opponent's DI?

Plenty of characters have guaranteed follow-ups from a grab. Nothing especially problematic about Diddy's, considering that he can only rarely get a guaranteed KO off of them.

 

[CrazyPerson]

I am kind of back and forth on the nerd/buff.
In general, I would always say to buff lower tiers a bit to make them more competitive to use. I am not a fan of nerfs unless it seems a great majority of people use that one or two characters to secure wins because it is more consistent. Diddy seems to be the most attacked player because of the banana or HooHah thing. I believe this takes skill to time and pull off consistently, as do other moves out there.
However, and I don't have data for or against this, if I took 50 people of equal skill, and had them train 8 hours a day on one character and I took another 50 to practice just Diddy, and most Diddy players win most matches, then it needs to be balanced.
At the end of the day, IMO, a player should be able to take any character and convert to wins based on their skill level, not because a character is easier to win with. Don't know if that all made sense. Just some thoughts.

This is the idea that everyone would like to see implemented. Come tomorrow, there will be 56 characters (I think, that includes Mewtwo and all 3 Mii Fighters). They are close to unique in their moves... there are some semi clones but overall the point stands.

Having that many charecters, and making them all different but equal is something all games with a competitive scene should try to do.... but it will never be achieved perfectly.


Within 24 hours of the patch being released, players will have played the "new" version many more hours than the developers have. They will discover things developers didn't, will come up with tactics the developers don't know... and new balance issues will emerge.

Game companies need to keep trying... but I don't think it is impossible to make this many charecters with different traits, that all wind up being equal.

A friend of mine had the brawl players guide when the game came out. I think Meta Knight was ranked a 6/10...

Yup... I'd say in hindsight that is wrong... players figured out how to use him in ways the developers didn't.

 

[Raijinken]

Plenty of characters have guaranteed follow-ups from a grab. Nothing especially problematic about Diddy's, considering that he can only rarely get a guaranteed KO off of them.

The only thing especially problematic is that most characters can't kill from such followups as reliably.

 

[Doruge]

The only thing especially problematic is that most characters can't kill from such followups as reliably.

True but a nerf to u-air's KBG would fix this. The complete removal of his throw combos as some people are proposing is beyond unnecessary.

 

[LancerStaff]

Why would you rather have nerfs?
I know that's what's more likely to happen, and even though some matchups make me want to rip my eyes out, I wouldn't want someone else's character toned down so mine could catch up.

Because it'd be a lot cleaner. Rather kill a few characters then rehauling most of the roster and having everybody end up same-y.

Plenty of characters have guaranteed follow-ups from a grab. Nothing especially problematic about Diddy's, considering that he can only rarely get a guaranteed KO off of them.

I honestly don't remember the specifics, having virtually no experience against Diddy.

 

[Eisen]

I mean I agree that Diddy/the game would benefit more if his upair killed like 30% later, but you have to admit it isn't hard at all to get a kill with hoo ha. Generally speaking (at least, this is my impression/opinion) being in the air is a bad place to be in this game. Several characters got better off-the-top launchers like Samus, Falcon, ROB, etc... It's fairly easy to manipulate the opponent into running into a hoo-ha despite how much of a staple it's become. I think also the startup on upair could be increased. That ****'s like a shine that kills. I dunno what frame it comes out exactly but it's gotta be below 5. A little much considering how floaty most characters are in this game.

 

[Nuhuh]

So I'm assuming that Nintendo aren't going to be friendly and release concise notes as to what they change like last time in terms of specific character balances etc. Any of you lovely people going to be getting on writing up some community notes? I'm at work tomorrow unfortunately .

please nerf diddy D:

 

[mario123007]

please nerf diddy D:

Seems they did...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

We now have a full list of confirmed changes that have been made in update version 1.0.6, so this thread can pretty much call it quits.

http://smashboards.com/threads/398902/