TL Up-Smash?

[TheFast]

Where did you hear that? if the game remembers only the last 9 than there is no way after 9 moves are used that it would remember that you have used that move? Im not saying, im wondering.

 

[iRjOn]

it will cause the move stale is different from the move atomatically diminishing from one use
like it remembering the move losing % apon the hit of it

 

[VietGeek]

Where are you guys getting these results that support your statements from? I mean we're in 2009 and we still don't have a definitive answer on how stale moves work or what?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yup 9 is correct indeed. And sasuke I dont think that happens. I know u can fully refresh any move u want a long as u erase it from the stale moves list by doing 9 more attacks. Correct me If im wrong.

@ Fast- The OP is so wrong u cant spam usmash at high levels of play. U'll get ur butt handed to u.

 

[Sosuke]

Nu u cnt cuz eye did da testing and read da threads lololol
No but really, I know this for a factzzz.
It doesn't fully replenish knock back of damage. One of the two.


You can spam Usmash if your that much better then your opponent. <_<
Its just a dumb thing to do.

 

[TheFast]

Iunno i have been going to more tournies lately and it doesnt seem to be good on most characters but there does seem to be a few choice characters that have trouble against TL's Up-smash. Namely Characters like Yoshi, and Sonic. But yah im starting to see in any instanst that you could upsmash for purely damage you could just like up-tilt or somehting.

 

[iRjOn]

Where are you guys getting these results that support your statements from? I mean we're in 2009 and we still don't have a definitive answer on how stale moves work or what?

Huh?
Yea its a thread dunno where it is I forgot.
Find it :\
also I messed around with it and came to the conclusion...
Its not absolute but I figure yall trust my word enough.
Right? >.>

 

[Hue]

Also, you cannever "fully" refresh a move in when you use it.
Its just a tad weaker if you've already used it once, regardless of how many moves you used after that.

So you're saying that if you use Up Smash at the beginning of a stock, it will stay stale until you die, no matter how many other attacks you do? If you are, you're wrong. The game remembers the previous 9 moves you successfully land. Knockback and damage are decayed/refreshed simultaneously.

 

[Sosuke]

Well uhh I just said that it doesn't FULLY REFRESH one of the two. I don't remember which one, but it doesn't F-U-L-L-Y refresh one.
Cuz you know, I already stated the rest of what you said in a previous post.


=)
So there. Idk how much more obvious I can make this.
But if it isn't significant enough to matter, w/e.
Facts are facts.

 

[TheFast]

I think its this.
Ive herd both of these terms are they different?
Diminished Moves
Stales Moves
If they are not the same they could be what Sasukes talking about.

 

[iRjOn]

I think its this.
Ive herd both of these terms are they different?
Diminished Moves
Stales Moves
If they are not the same they could be what Sasukes talking about.

They are kinda different

What I got them to be was
Diminished-less % apon hit

Stale- Less knock back.


@Hue
Sasuke didn't mean that.
Its just that you can never fully refresh a move.
That means after you use it once its wont knockback like it did the frist time.
No matter what.
Even if you get off the stale moves list.

 

[Hue]

They are kinda different

What I got them to be was
Diminished-less % apon hit

Stale- Less knock back.


@Hue
Sasuke didn't mean that.
Its just that you can never fully refresh a move.
That means after you use it once its wont knockback like it did the frist time.
No matter what.
Even if you get off the stale moves list.

Oh I see, I misunderstood what he was saying. Does dying "fully refresh" moves?

 

[iRjOn]

Oh I see, I misunderstood what he was saying. Does dying "fully refresh" moves?

Yea it does
Forgot to say thats the only way lol

 

[VietGeek]

But what Sasuke is saying doesn't make sense.

If they are different why is the code in Brawl+ not attribute to that? Instead it lets you modify the ratio for all stale move negation, as well as percent.

Which would mean they're related, not independent as suggested here.

Stale Move Ratio Modifier 6 lines (spunit262)

06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3DCCCCCD
3DB851EC 3DA3D70A
3D8F5C29 3D75C28F
3D4CCCCD 3D23D70A
3CF5C28F 3CA3D70A

Brawl's default
***Individually mods stale move values
3/4 power stale system
06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3D8CCCCD
3D6E147B 3D63D70A
3D428F5C 3D35C28F
3CF851EB 3CE3D70A
3C8CCCCC 3C63D70A

1/2 power stale system

06FC0988 00000028
3D4CCCCD 3D4CCCCD
3D23D70A 3D23D70A
3CF5C28F 3CF5C28F
3CA3D70A 3CA3D70A
3C23D70A 3C23D70A


__________________________________________________
Stale Move Ratio Modifier (EXPLANATION)

Brawl's default

06FC0988 00000028 Code initiation line (must be here)
fresh 3D4CCCCD 1 3DCCCCCD---- 5%(Fresh bonus when not in queue), 0.1
2 3DB851EC 3 3DA3D70A ---- 0.09, 0.08
4 3D8F5C29 5 3D75C28F----- 0.07, 0.06
6 3D4CCCCD 7 3D23D70A----- 0.05, 0.04
8 3CF5C28F 9 3CA3D70A ----0.03, 0.02

Green=Number in stale queue

So stale moves are:
Fresh (105%), 100%, 90%, 80%....20%

To make your own values use this
Hex converter

example:
10%=.1=3DCCCCCD

DO NOT EXCEED A FLOAT VALUE OF 0.1

As you see, both values of knockback and % degrading are joined in this code where you direct modify percentage of decrease from overuse. The code that completely removes knockback & % loss is a one liner, meaning they're like...sharing the same address.

You can see both are accounted for in the stale move critique. But their degration ratios are different, that's all, but they share the same address since the first line directs where to edit what.

So...I'm seriously confused. =/

Although if what you're saying is true Sasuke, Sakurai sucks.

 

[iRjOn]

But what Sasuke is saying doesn't make sense.

If they are different why is the code in Brawl+ not attribute to that? Instead it lets you modify the ratio for all stale move negation, as well as percent.

Which would mean they're related, not independent as suggested here.



As you see, both values of knockback and % degrading are joined in this code where you direct modify percentage of decrease from overuse. The code that completely removes knockback & % loss is a one liner, meaning they're like...sharing the same address.

You can see both are accounted for in the stale move critique. But their degration ratios are different, that's all, but they share the same address since the first line directs where to edit what.

So...I'm seriously confused. =/

Although if what you're saying is true Sasuke, Sakurai sucks.

They are related...just that we use different words to refer to different parts.

Whats so confusing VG?
I'm not getting you...
You're confuzzling me >.>

 

[TheFast]

Veit it says 105% fresh maybe if you use it once and it goes dow to 100% than 100% is the cap after you use it.

 

[VietGeek]

lol maybe Fast...maybe.

Wha'ts confusing is if they're the same thing why would both not be either fresh together or stale together if the values that affect them are both identical?

If attack A stales and diminishes, but both values get affected at the same time when used, why would that not be the case in reverse when being "unstaled."

Of course fast might have just answered that.

Sakurai, I hate you.

 

[Ice_smash]

I think there's a lot of misinformation going on in this thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

Here Colin details the "stale move multiplier" used to calculate damage. Nowhere does he mention anything about a move being unable to be "fully" refreshed. If the move is in the stale move queue (which remembers nine entries), the multiplier is 1-s; if not, it's simply 1.05. Read the thread for more information.

Edit: On topic, I think that It's never good to spam up smash because it isn't particularly easy to land and will be punished. However, at low percents, I'll use it to punish my opponent's mistakes because it can often lead into other attacks (on fast fallers, perhaps even another usmash). By the time the opponent is at high percent, usmash will be refreshed so that you can kill with it.

 

[TheFast]

So I did some test. TL upsmash kills Captain Falcon at 120% (no DI) when never used. When used 9 times than used Toon Links jabs 9 times or more Toon Links upsmash killed at 120%. Soz.......

Doing more testing cuz its between 115-120 they might be like 2% difference.

EDIT: They both Kill Capptain Falcon At 117%, no DI. Not on training mode because training doesnt active stale moves.

 

[VietGeek]

See Sasuke...

it's your eyes playing tricks with you again.

Your eyes.

Your eyes.

Your eyes Sasuke.

 

[iRjOn]

The stale moves list holds 9 DIFFERENT moves...
If its on the stales moves list it cant knock one off...

 

[TheFast]

They dont have to be diffenent move Iron. By my results I "fully" refreshed a move in 9 jab attacks.
I did all the damage with jabs till 117% upsmash killed. 116% did not kill.
I did 9 upsmashs than did the rest in jabs till 117%. Upsmash and it killed.

 

[Sosuke]

I hope your not using training mode Fast.


I stick to my theory. D=

 

[iRjOn]

They dont have to be diffenent move Iron. By my results I "fully" refreshed a move in 9 jab attacks.
I did all the damage with jabs till 117% upsmash killed. 116% did not kill.
I did 9 upsmashs than did the rest in jabs till 117%. Upsmash and it killed.

Yes it does
:D

 

[VietGeek]

Yes it does
:D

If repeated moves don't count more than 1 on the stale list, how does anything diminish? <_<

 

[iRjOn]

dunno...that alway confused me
But I found out it doesn't really help to know...
:\

Because its wierd in training mode the knock back will decrease but the damage remains the same.
:\

But just cause KILL move staled killed him at the same % with no DI doesn't mean it regained full knock back.
Stale moves only really become noticeable with DI any way.

 

[TheFast]

@Sasuke:
Im not using training mode i already said this >___<