Thoughts on Ike, Chrom, and Awakening

[Aninymouse]

I think it's no secret that I'm a big fan of Ike. I've generally stayed away from discussing this topic in particular: how Awakening made me feel (and still makes me feel, at times) about the Ike vs. Chrom hype. In fact, I haven't seen many people address it at length at all (at least, from a pro-Ike viewpoint). I suppose that, before Ike's reveal, tensions were high between the Ike and Chrom camps, even though they never did have to be at odds with one another; and so, it didn't get debated much.

Well, it was this thread that helped me distill my feelings about the topic, and brought to memory a lot of the reasons I didn't care for certain aspects of Awakening. Allow me to quote our own moderator, ---, from that same thread:

Am kinda embarrassed to be saying this, but honesty one of the primary reasons I just can't get into Awakening was Path of Radiance as a whole and Smash.

Granted I like the sheer amount of depth that FE13 has and I'd never not recommend someone play it, but everything else I felt that past FE games had done a lot better; as well as the direction towards more fan service turned me away from a once respectable anime styled game, which are rare to begin with. To see it suddenly be getting the reviews, sales, and praise that other games in the series never got, was just plain upsetting to me as a diehard fan who owns every game bar FE6; not that I don't want to see the series do well.

Smash in particular was a sore spot for me with everyone suddenly changing boats from having Roy and Ike back to having Chrom. Though the biggest offense for me was how people compared Chrom to Ike, while there is some truth based on concept designs, both are radically different from one another. Seeing people, even some Ike mains, say just give his moveset to Chrom was a major sore spot. I think objectively (sorry) Ike is the better character of the two in every way, and to see people treat him as someone forgettable both in and out of his series flat out hurt.

With both his, and to a lesser extent, Lucario's, confirmation the last real big worry I had for this game's roster has lifted. Granted there are still characters I want to see return and would be bummed if they didn't return, but Ike was the one that I would have thrown a fanboy fit over. Overall though, Ike's return has lifted one of the many dark clouds over speculation for this game and I couldn't be happier.

On the subject of FE: Awakening, yes, I think the fanservice levels were off the charts for a FE game. Compared to other franchises, it probably looks tame by comparison, granted. Marriages have been done before in FE games, so romance is not the issue. I feel it has more to do with the overall character design being very intentional about sex appeal. Some characters, like Aversa, don't even wear clothes so much as they have body paint as their main covering. Tharja sports a thong bikini and a sheer bodysuit as her standard battle attire. Cherche wears a very conservative suit of armor in-game, but her promotional artwork has her back turned to the viewer, revealing that her armor has a plunging open back, from her shoulders all the way down to the top of her butt. The back of her tunic is also a miniskirt that barely covers her rear quarters. So in Cherche's case, they took an otherwise modest character design and turned it into something kinky for the purpose of sex appeal. Her back isn't even in view through normal gameplay, but it is her promotional artwork that has her turned around. There are countless other small touches for other characters that are unnecessary or handled in an exploitative manner: Tiki has the huge cleavage, sure, but she also has slits up her dress above her hip, and her garter belts (which most female characters have in this game); Lissa's corset and German bar maid top; Nowi's entire character trope, as a barely-clothed 1,000-year-old lolicon (it's almost self-parodying, if it wasn't so sad), which is pretty uncomfortable for me, if you consider that the roots of this character type are rooted deeply in animated child porn; Olivia's half-bare ass.

There's a lot of sexy clothing, yes, but also, some character classes even move in enticing ways; the way the female Trickster class shake their hips in the idle animation comes to mind. You almost expect the Dancer class to be a sensual character, sure, but should the other female classes also be this way?

Yeah, it's mostly tame. No, it doesn't ruin the game for me. But I'd be lying if I said I wanted more of that in the future. I think FE has always had attractive female characters, though they were once very cartoony. That's not it. It's the fact that the female form was definitely exploited in Awakening to make the game more enticing. Every other anime-styled RPG that comes out of Japan has strong sexual overtones these days, it seerms. I kind of enjoyed that Fire Emblem has tended to be the exception in that regard. It's not to say that sex is the enemy. No, but we are awash in a sea of sexual exploitation and over-saturation in America. And although the last time I was in Japan was in 2004, Japan certainly has its own problems with handling sex in a respectful and healthy manner that I can only assume have intensified since then.

**********

It took me a year to finally break down and buy FE:A. When I first saw the blatant exploitation in the promotional artwork, I decided not to buy it. But... boredom got the better of me. It's a good game, I've come to find out, but not for the same reasons that PoR or RD were good, per se.

How does this relate to characters in Smash? Well, for one thing, it's a small part of why I was never very enthused about Chrom's possible inclusion, and especially offended that people wanted Chrom to replace Ike. There is also the fact that Chrom has a lot - much more than Marth - of visual similarities to Ike. Also, in my opinion, Chrom's character is not inspiring or especially praiseworthy. Chrom behaves much like a warrior figurehead, with the hard decisions all being made for him throughout the story - mostly by Avatar/Robin, but also by the other rulers and local leaders he surrounds himself with.

***********

So what's the point, right? Am I here just to trash talk on Awakening? No. I do have some concerns with the direction Awakening took, but I still consider myself a Fire Emblem fan. My hope is that people who maybe were introduced to Fire Emblem by way of Awakening can come to understand the viewpoint of the more long-time fans who came to understand Fire Emblem through the other games. In fact, there are a LOT of things I do love about Awakening, and there are some incredibly well-done characters as well, like Lucina and Gregor. Heck, I hope Awakening fans will check out Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn sometime.

If Chrom makes it into Smash, will I be upset? No. I might get a bit miffed if a scantily-clad female fanservice character is put in, but that's not nearly as likely, so I don't feel I have much to worry about, there. No, in fact I have a lot of hope that Sakurai will pull off a character like Chrom, or Robin, or whoever, with aplomb. If he can make a character as iconic and well-liked as Captain Falcon out of literally nothing, he can certainly manage another FE character. I do have some concerns with the animations Chrom has in Awakening (such as the prevalence of jumping attacks), but who knows! Maybe that will be the thing that sets Chrom apart, if he makes it.

No... I just wanted to share some thoughts. Maybe spark some conversation. The one thing I didn't do much of was to build a positive case for Ike and his games, so in closing, here's the love letter that Fatmanonice composed, which echoes some of my feelings about Ike nicely:

When I first created this thread, I intended to post a memory of each new character as they were revealed but that would have taken way too long, especially now that we already have 30 characters. With E3 roughly two weeks away, I've decided to revisit this idea but, instead of each character, I'm going to try to tackle each franchise. With Ike being shown off on Friday, I've decided to start off with Fire Emblem.

When I first saw Marth in Melee, I actually thought he was a Castlevania character for some weird reason and for a short time I couldn't figure out if Marth was a boy or a girl. I remember a lot of people complained about him and Roy at first because it felt like "Nintendo was scraping the bottom of the barrel for new characters" but by the end of 2002 there was a ton of demand for Fire Emblem to be released in other regions. Eventually those people got their wish and the first international FE was released in 2003 to a lot of acclaim. I was hesitant to get it though. I wasn't really into strategy games and it looked boring so it was a franchise that I avoided.

Fast forward a couple of years to the days of Brawl speculation and there was demand for Lyn and Ike everywhere. I didn't really get it because it was a franchise that I knew nothing about. Ike's reveal was probably one of the most memorable for Brawl for me though. It had been roughly 15 months after the first trailer and we had yet to see any new newcomers since then. E3 2007 was largely a huge disappointment for Smash fans because there wasn't hardly any new news despite many people expecting there to be a huge blowout of info. People were beginning to suspect that Wario, Pit, ZSS, and Metaknight were the only newcomers in the starting roster and some people believed it because Melee's only had five newcomers (Bowser, Peach, Ice Climbers, Zelda, and Sheik). People were expecting a few more veterans before the game came out but then, all of a sudden, we got Ike. Needless to say, people went nuts. People who cared nothing about Fire Emblem went nuts. It was a great time and it kicked off the string of newcomer reveals that lasted the next three months. Lyn was revealed as an AT about a month and half later and the most memorable thing about that was that there was a girl on Nsider who so devastated abut the news that she threatened to commit suicide for several days until she finally calmed down.

Fast forward to Brawl's release. I came to hate Ike very quickly. It seemed like everybody used him and online was stuffed with people who were completely god awful with him who did little more than spam smash attacks. To me, he was the ultimate noob character and I had little respect for most people who played as him. Fast forward about a year later to my first college summer away from home. Living in a college town where nearly a third of the population up and leaves when classes are not in session, summer jobs are hard to come by and I was unemployed until August. Needless to say, I had a lot of free time on my hands and that summer I dedicated my time to playing Nintendo franchises I had never touched before. I went to Game pawn shops all over the place and picked up a ton of games that I had simply overlooked in the past. One of those was Fire Emblem for the GBA and, after playing it, I was hooked on the franchise. I went out and bought Sacred Stones after beating FE probably three times back to back and did the same with it. Then I decided that I finally wanted to give Ike's first game, Path of Radiance, a shot but I had a hard time finding in pawn shops and it typically ran for more than a hundred bucks on eBay. Luckily, on of my old friends from high school had the game and he let me borrow it. Soon, my whole opinion of Ike changed.

I will say that, without a doubt, Ike is easily the most compelling character the FE franchise has ever produced and, arguably, one of the best characters Nintendo has ever created. I think his story is amazing and really inspiring overall. To those of you not familiar with it, Ike was the son of a famous vigilante named Greil who was the leader of a group called the Greil Mercenaries. They made a good living dealing with local crime until one day war broke out and it was decided that mercenaries were now illegal, leading the local kingdom to aggressively pursue them. They flee to find sanctuary in another kingdom but, in the process, Greil is killed trying to protect his clan by a man known as the Black Knight. Ike then is made leader of the Greil Mercenaries but things are off to a rocky start. He hardly knows what he's doing, huge mistakes are made, and some members outright leave. Throughout the rest of the game, he struggles through his "Famous Father" complex and learns his own strengths as a leader, which is mostly his people skills and sense of empathy. He goes from a kid who utterly lacks self confidence to the leader of a massive army that includes soldiers from just about every nationality in his world.

This is why Ike came to be one of the characters that I wanted to see return the most because I felt like his story spoke to me. I too have a wildly successful father who I question if I'll ever live up to and have spent my time in college trying to carve out my own niche, bit by bit. Like Ike, I have had a lot of set backs and I have come to find that one of my biggest strengths is being able to connect with other people. I think Ike represents a struggle that most of us go through which is why I feel he's such a likable character. He starts off as pathetic but turns into someone that, even as a fictional character, you respect. Since playing PoR, FE has become one of my favorite Nintendo franchises. As said, I find it funny how things turned out because I avoided it for nearly six years because I didn't think I'd like it and then one of the characters I liked least in Brawl eventually became not only one of my favorite Smash characters but one of my favorite video game characters.

And here is Rhys' excellent post on Ike, as well:

I agree. I have played both portions of Path of Radiance and completed Radiant Dawn and most certainly share your view on Ike. Shockingly, him and Fox have fairly similar personalities, so similar in fact that if I had played PoR or RD first, I may have written that post about Ike instead.

Ike and Fox McCloud both share a strong sense of empathy and compassion for those close to them, and their childhood friends. In Ike's case, he's protective of Soren, Mist and others (though I can't remember if Soren is a childhood friend of his or not) and shows consistent compassion for those in need, but does not have a lust to kill the Black Knight, despite his feelings towards him. Ike is shown to have excellent decision making to preserve his army and also pursue what will stop the onslaught faster, rather than simply going to take out Zelgius immediately in Radiant Dawn.

Similarly, Fox shows empathy and respect for his wingmates (especially during Peppy's sacrifice during Assault) and will do anything to assist them. But he also expresses the authoritative discipline that Ike has, also seen in the ending of Assault, where instead of sobbing over the losses experienced in the Aparoid Invasion (General Pepper, Peppy Hare, ROB and Star Wolf) he immediately orders his team to move onward, in order to save the Lylat System from being corrupted by the Aparoids. Keeping in mind that Peppy is Fox's remaining link to his Father. While Star Fox games have more of a cheesy dialogue and direction than the Fire Emblem games, the elements are there.

Ike, like Fox, will not hesitate to take revenge on the Black Knight once he gets his chance in Radiant Dawn, but he doesn't endanger his team to take revenge, he does it alone. Fox McCloud has the help of Falco, Slippy and Peppy to get into the depths of Venom to Andross, but Fox fights him alone, likely for his own closure and to avoid his wingmates getting killed by Andross. I think this adds a sort of depth and "real" part of their characters; they still feel they need to take revenge, but are capable of controlling it. It makes them both more believable characters. It's also worth noting that Ike and Fox are some of the only Nintendo protagonists to remain humble, but are extremely confident in their capabilities, but are never shown to be overwhelmingly arrogant and/or egotistical (Samus might apply here, but I haven't really played the Metroid games).

And I'm happy I could make your view on Fox a little more positive. Not many people that play him actually enjoy his character the way I do, and usually play him simply because he's top tier in Melee and arguably one of the best characters (tier wise) across all three games. I have always liked Ike after playing his games, and he's the reason I love Fire Emblem the way I do now.

 

[FlareHabanero]

My main question is why people actually thought Chrom could replace Ike successfully, because Chrom is pretty obviously the inferior choice.

 

[DMurr]

What a great read, @ Aninymouse , combining your thoughts with the other guys. Ike is my favorite character in Smash Bros., and I was so worried that he wouldn't return. I always thought he would make it back, and that it made the most sense. I don't necessarily identify with the character or backstory of Ike, but he is the purest example of what I love in video games -- what draws me to the career in the field. Roy in Melee got me into Fire Emblem. Ike and the story and art style of Path of Radiance solidified my career goals.

I've never thought about or noticed anything about Awakening and the treatment of females. There are other characters in previous FE games that had similar treatment, but I don't think I saw much of the promotional content. I didn't notice it in the characters because they're mostly childish and doll-looking. But I loved Awakening overall. I thought they did (almost) everything right, at least in regards to my interests.

 

[Shadow Ganon]

My main question is why people actually thought Chrom could replace Ike successfully, because Chrom is pretty obviously the inferior choice.

A lot of people are not familiar with Fire Emblem apart from the Smash series. To them, they just look at the way Fire Emblem was represented in the past. In Melee, we had Marth and Roy. When Brawl came around, we found out we got to keep Marth but instead of Roy, we got Ike. So it is a safe bet to say that in Smash 4 we will again keep Marth but this time get a different FE rep in place of Ike. Once Marth was confirmed, then there was just the speculation of who to replace Ike and with Awakening being the most recent that was the first place to look. There are plenty of characters from that game that stand out but Chrom was, again, the safest bet. It really had nothing to do with whether one was superior to another. Most people just wanted to follow that pattern. Now with Ike confirmed, the main question is whether we are getting a third rep and again whether it will be a character from Awakening. In my opinion, I believe we will definitely get an Awakening character though don't think it should be Chrom. I agree with OP that Sakurai can definitely pull off a unique Chrom set but to me an even more unique character is Robin (the player's character in Awakening). We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[FlareHabanero]

A lot of people are not familiar with Fire Emblem apart from the Smash series. To them, they just look at the way Fire Emblem was represented in the past. In Melee, we had Marth and Roy. When Brawl came around, we found out we got to keep Marth but instead of Roy, we got Ike. So it is a safe bet to say that in Smash 4 we will again keep Marth but this time get a different FE rep in place of Ike. Once Marth was confirmed, then there was just the speculation of who to replace Ike and with Awakening being the most recent that was the first place to look. There are plenty of characters from that game that stand out but Chrom was, again, the safest bet. It really had nothing to do with whether one was superior to another. Most people just wanted to follow that pattern. Now with Ike confirmed, the main question is whether we are getting a third rep and again whether it will be a character from Awakening. In my opinion, I believe we will definitely get an Awakening character though don't think it should be Chrom. I agree with OP that Sakurai can definitely pull off a unique Chrom set but to me an even more unique character is Robin (the player's character in Awakening). We'll just have to wait and see.

Well considering that Roy was a piece of **** clone version of Marth that wasn't even intended to be on the roster to begin with and because of that people wanted Roy off the roster, it shouldn't of been a surprise Roy would of been pushed aside for a better choice. Which brings up a point I want to make is that you can't make a pattern over one event, and said event being a very notable justification. Which is why I cannot stomach the belief that Chrom would replace Ike for absolutely no reason whatsoever, because doing that would of been a very big step backwards. We got the perfect foil to Marth, the burly powerful mercenary to contrast the pretty fast prince. Which is more important then you think, because it does show a sign of diversity with the concept of toying with foils. It's like, say Sol Badguy and Ky Kiske in concept. So to see that get removed in favor of a less popular character that would of easily been a lot less original wouldn't be the right decision at all, just for the sake of repeating a past event minus any justifications.

Remember, people, there never was a pattern to begin with. By definition a pattern should at least be considered if it happened at least three times. Like for example, just saying red isn't a pattern, but saying red green red green would be. Which is why Roy being removed in favor of Ike isn't much of a pattern, but more like shifting game design to better diversify the roster. It's why that the majority of characters that were scrapped between Melee and Brawl were filler that wasn't well received. It's a pretty basic game design philosophy, which confuses me as to why people don't understand.

 

[DraginHikari]

Well considering that Roy was a piece of **** clone version of Marth that wasn't even intended to be on the roster to begin with and because of that people wanted Roy off the roster, it shouldn't of been a surprise Roy would of been pushed aside for a better choice. Which brings up a point I want to make is that you can't make a pattern over one event, and said event being a very notable justification. Which is why I cannot stomach the belief that Chrom would replace Ike for absolutely no reason whatsoever, because doing that would of been a very big step backwards. We got the perfect foil to Marth, the burly powerful mercenary to contrast the pretty fast prince. Which is more important then you think, because it does show a sign of diversity with the concept of toying with foils. It's like, say Sol Badguy and Ky Kiske in concept. So to see that get removed in favor of a less popular character that would of easily been a lot less original wouldn't be the right decision at all, just for the sake of repeating a past event minus any justifications.

Remember, people, there never was a pattern to begin with. By definition a pattern should at least be considered if it happened at least three times. Like for example, just saying red isn't a pattern, but saying red green red green would be. Which is why Roy being removed in favor of Ike isn't much of a pattern, but more like shifting game design to better diversify the roster. It's why that the majority of characters that were scrapped between Melee and Brawl were filler that wasn't well received. It's a pretty basic game design philosophy, which confuses me as to why people don't understand.

It true there was no clear pattern given we only had one example to go off of, however, it was a possibility and possibility no one could really prove or disapprove prior to Ike's reveal and the same thing happened before Marth's reveal as well. The fact we as the most devoted fan base to the series mean we have a tenacity to overly analyzing anything and everything using what evidence we have even if it isn't the most statistical or scientific method of reviewing a situation. That's just the way things like this work.

Yes, I argue against the possibility of the Ike's return in the past mostly because the fact that people were either refusing to accept any possibility that Ike could possibly not returning or being replaced was a distinct possibility with no evidence to suggest one way or another, it was no different for me on those that absolutely thought Ike was going to be replaced by Chrom. I do not believe in absolution in absence of evidence especially with the Fire Emblem series especially given it's nature as a series with revolving characters that often differ from game to game, anything is really possible. It wasn't me hating on Ike returning, it was just simply that there was no evidence support his return or his removal.

I understand your view point in regards to the logic that was presented with the issue and though I cannot entirely agree that Chrom would have been a giant step backwards I can definitely respect that view. I'm just not sure your past posts towards Chrom have displayed this well and has been lost in what appears to be your sheer dislike of the character.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I think Awakening, overall, was a weaker game than those of the Radiant Saga. The majority of it's characters very much had cookie cutter Anime personalities, the story was weak and spread itself far too thin and the difficulty was babified. The only thing that Awakening had over the Raidant Saga was DLC, children characters, reclassing, the Tactician class and support conversations (Radiant Dawn did a bad job on those).

The story shortcomings of Awakening are very disappointing, especially in a game that is so story-driven. The game starts out interestingly enough with that "Premonition" chapter, but immediately after that you are exposed to some of the cheapest, soap opera writing available: a mysterious character with amnesia appears! That pretty much set the tone for the rest of the game. Chrom learns nothing from his encounter with Mad King Gangrel and the war with Plegia and completely disregards his sister's dying wish to rush headlong into another war with Valm. Then there's the whole Valmese war, which was just unexciting and unmemorable. In the midst of the war with Valm, Chrom almost loses one of the gems necessary to activate the Fire Emblem and defeat Grima because of Basilio. Keep in mind that Lucina traveled through time to stop that specific event from happening and she waits until about a day before it was set to happen to tell anyone. She was there at least a year. Then we have the whole "use the fire Emblem to seal the evil dragon" thing that was a total rehash of the original Fire Emblem's plot.

Perhaps it is just because this game after Radiant Dawn that I chastise the story so much. Radiant Dawn truly sold the warring nations plotline. The battles in that game were really just enormous; Awakening's battles were so small scale in comparison that it was lackluster. Among the warring armies, friends faced friends, brother faced brother; there was the whole Yen'fay Say'ri thing in Awakening, but that was just so weak. The fire emblem in the Radiant Saga (Lehran's Medallion) was just a more interesting emblem than Awakening's reused one. The heron laguz that attended it, the senators that enslaved/killed them, the goddess within; everything about it was more interesting. The Chaos V. Order theme in the last section of the game was honestly some of the best writing I've seen in a video game (it completely did away with any cliched notions on that).

Radiant Dawn did have a larger amount of chapters (42) for it's story than Awakening (27), so I can't blame it for feeling rushed in comparison. And Awakening did what it needed to do for the series (make it more accessible through simpler character and easier gameplay), so I'm not mad about or anything.

And I can't deny bias on my part, Radiant Dawn is one of my favorite games of all time. I've play through once a year since I got it in '07 (the only game other games I've done that with is OoT).

As for my thoughts on Ike and Chrom, I prefer Ike.

My problem with Chrom is lack of development (as I touched on briefly with my previous rant about Awakening's story), he just sort doesn't heed his sister's advice and sort of fades into a secondary character after her death. Chrom has personality certainly and it isn't even a bad one, it's just the very generic personality of Shounen protagonist (Chrom could easily be Ichigo in wig, minus the powers). That is a likable personality, just nothing to make him stand out.

Ike's personality certainly wasn't bombastic either, but Ike grew in Path of Radiance and in Radiant Dawn, so greater attachments were formed to his plight. There's something to be said about Ike as an everyman, starting out as the son of mercenary and working his way up to commander of an army. Whereas Chrom was introduced as Prince of Ylisse and commander of an army (more or less). Ike has to come to terms with losing his father whilst living in his father's shadow and dealing with the many secrets his father kept from him (many of which involve the reasons for the various wars Ike must help put an end to). Overall Ike and the Radiant Saga were both written and designed better than Awakening. Radiant Dawn was not for newbies to Fire Emblem; it's difficulty was punishing. (A friend of mine tried to play it from my recommendation and couldn't continue because most of his units died. I should have told him Medium was more like Hard for that game). It wasn't very accessible, so I can see why it didn't sell to well.

In terms of Chrom for Smash Bros, my thoughts are as follows:

Sakurai has created movesets out of nothing many, many times, so there is little doubt in my mind that he could make Chrom a completely unique character. However, I don't think his inclusion alongside the like of Marth and Ike represents the Fire Emblem series well. Fire Emblem is so much more then men with swords; it's Dragons, children wielding incredibly powerful spells, Assassins, hardworking farm women turned Lancers, Chimera, Archers, Axe wielding tanks of men effortlessly holding the line, Bards, Mages with hidden knives, Dancers and the like. There is entirely too much going on in Fire Emblem for the majority of the populace to know it only as "swordsmen." If Chrom were to get in alongside another type of unit, that would be fine. But I doubt FE will get two newcomers this time around.

Excuse the wall of text; I felt it an appropriate reply to OP's wall.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why are there so many idiots so sure that the butt baby of Marth and Ike will be unique?
Also, why does everything think Sakurai actually develops the game instead of, you know, the actual developers?

 

[DraginHikari]

Excuse the wall of text; I felt it an appropriate reply to OP's wall.

I do agree with a number of things you said here. The sad thing though is a good story like the one told in the Radiant Games only went so far. Much of the issues we find problematic were a result of the condition the series was in which probably lead to many of the decisions that were made during Awakening development. Since the series was going pretty down hill after Radiant Dawn with the following games sells less and less even in Japan where the series was always pretty well liked.

Why are there so many idiots so sure that the butt baby of Marth and Ike will be unique?
Also, why does everything think Sakurai actually develops the game instead of, you know, the actual developers?

Why do you insist on resorting to hostile wording and tenacity when bring up things you don't like? That's why I don't entirely understand. It's one thing to have negative opinions of a character. Your issue with people who want Chrom is pretty adversary and unnecessary.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Why are there so many idiots so sure that the butt baby of Marth and Ike will be unique?
Also, why does everything think Sakurai actually develops the game instead of, you know, the actual developers?

I think it's more that Chrom can be unique, not that he would be.

As for Sakurai developing the game, he does do a lot of the work. He personally balances the characters, enters the frame data and stats for each character. It isn't a crazy thought the game's lead developer is developing the game.

I do agree with a number of things you said here. The sad thing though is a good story like the one told in the Radiant Games only went so far. Much of the issues we find problematic were a result of the condition the series was in which probably lead to many of the decisions that were made during Awakening development. Since the series was going pretty down hill after Radiant Dawn with the following games sells less and less even in Japan where the series was always pretty well liked.

Yes, it's sad that they had to weaken the writing and gameplay to save the series. That's one of the reasons I'm not upset with Awakening.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why do you insist on resorting to hostile wording and tenacity when bring up things you don't like? That's why I don't entirely understand. It's one thing to have negative opinions of a character. Your issue with people who want Chrom is pretty adversary and unnecessary.

Stop beating around the bush and just answer the god damn question.

 

[Shadow Ganon]

Well considering that Roy was a piece of **** clone version of Marth that wasn't even intended to be on the roster to begin with and because of that people wanted Roy off the roster, it shouldn't of been a surprise Roy would of been pushed aside for a better choice. Which brings up a point I want to make is that you can't make a pattern over one event, and said event being a very notable justification. Which is why I cannot stomach the belief that Chrom would replace Ike for absolutely no reason whatsoever, because doing that would of been a very big step backwards. We got the perfect foil to Marth, the burly powerful mercenary to contrast the pretty fast prince. Which is more important then you think, because it does show a sign of diversity with the concept of toying with foils. It's like, say Sol Badguy and Ky Kiske in concept. So to see that get removed in favor of a less popular character that would of easily been a lot less original wouldn't be the right decision at all, just for the sake of repeating a past event minus any justifications.

Remember, people, there never was a pattern to begin with. By definition a pattern should at least be considered if it happened at least three times. Like for example, just saying red isn't a pattern, but saying red green red green would be. Which is why Roy being removed in favor of Ike isn't much of a pattern, but more like shifting game design to better diversify the roster. It's why that the majority of characters that were scrapped between Melee and Brawl were filler that wasn't well received. It's a pretty basic game design philosophy, which confuses me as to why people don't understand.

The simple answer: Not everyone thinks how you do. You are correct, a pattern was never truly established when it comes to FE reps. Most people just completed the pattern in their head and went with it not thinking about the impact Roy or Ike had on the Smash. Their thought process is simple: Marth & Roy -> Marth & Ike -> Marth & ???. Hopefully, Ike's confirmation made everyone realize that it won't always be that simple. But then again, everyone knows Sakurai is very unpredictable. Perhaps after the fact, we can analyze his roster decisions and make sense of it but it isn't always easy to see beforehand.

Why are there so many idiots so sure that the butt baby of Marth and Ike will be unique?
Also, why does everything think Sakurai actually develops the game instead of, you know, the actual developers?

I assume that clones are a thing of the past and that whatever FE character is lucky enough to get added in will be unique even if it doesn't look that way from outside of Smash (Like with Chrom). In my opinion, I agree that making Chrom noteworthy will be difficult (He's another blue-haired swordsman to start) but at least in some way he will be different. I'm still rooting for Robin instead. I admit not to know much about how the game's development works but I assume Sakurai has the last say on what gets implemented into the game.

 

[DraginHikari]

Stop beating around the bush and just answer the god damn question.

Again with the hostility, fine if you would like to know where I stand well this is it.

As a rule of thumb I do not make movesets or come up with concepts as I feel as someone who does not design games anything I would do is meaningless speculation, I think that's a better question for those that are more devoted to the character as those in Chrom's thread. To be clear I'm not the largest support of Chrom, just an Awakening Character in general, not necessarily Chrom but any of the three leads including Robin or Lucina would satisfy me in that regards, because my tenacity to not isolated down to individual characters sort of just doesn't make me adequate to debate the merits of Chrom's uniqueness. Do I believe they could give Chrom a unique moveset of some variation, yes. Mostly because of the same general belief they can do that with any character they chose to include. Swordplay archtypes can be varied enough that anything is entirely possible. Yes, I am aware this answer is unlikely to satisfy your question. I have no intention though of shifting my approach on the matter simply because insults have been thrown.

As far as using Sakurai, it's simply a shorthand that most people use to address not only Sakurai but the entire development team. It's just simplifying a more complex corporate situation.

 

[Aninymouse]

Again with the hostility, fine if you would like to know where I stand well this is it.

As a rule of thumb I do not make movesets or come up with concepts as I feel as someone who does not design games anything I would do is meaningless speculation, I think that's a better question for those that are more devoted to the character as those in Chrom's thread. To be clear I'm not the largest support of Chrom, just an Awakening Character in general, not necessarily Chrom but any of the three leads including Robin or Lucina would satisfy me in that regards, because my tenacity to not isolated down to individual characters sort of just doesn't make me adequate to debate the merits of Chrom's uniqueness. Do I believe they could give Chrom a unique moveset of some variation, yes. Mostly because of the same general belief they can do that with any character they chose to include. Swordplay archtypes can be varied enough that anything is entirely possible. Yes, I am aware this answer is unlikely to satisfy your question. I have no intention though of shifting my approach on the matter simply because insults have been thrown.

As far as using Sakurai, it's simply a shorthand that most people use to address not only Sakurai but the entire development team. It's just simplifying a more complex corporate situation.

Well said, friend.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

This!
I know it has nothing to do with the topic but it has to be shared.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

*Equips Flame Shield*

I have only played Awakening. Fully with the DLC characters, but from what I know about the 2 Radiant games, I say that Roy and Ike are superior to Chrom and Lucina. Heck, I think Lyndis would be superior because of how important she is. Chrom seems like a replacement for Marth as does Lucina, and his appearance took them out. Roy just seems important as heck because him and Marth taught America "Hey, this series flipping rocks, so we are here to be bosses and prove it to you!" Chrom seems like a person to tell people "Hey, this series is still going so buy it or else!" The one who introduces is always more important than the one who continuities.

Comment over.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

*Equips Flame Shield*

I have only played Awakening. Fully with the DLC characters, but from what I know about the 2 Radiant games, I say that Roy and Ike are superior to Chrom and Lucina. Heck, I think Lyndis would be superior because of how important she is. Chrom seems like a replacement for Marth as does Lucina, and his appearance took them out. Roy just seems important as heck because him and Marth taught America "Hey, this series flipping rocks, so we are here to be bosses and prove it to you!" Chrom seems like a person to tell people "Hey, this series is still going so buy it or else!" The one who introduces is always more important than the one who continuities.

Comment over.

One's opinion of Roy changes dramatically when one actually plays FE7 and FE6.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

I can't get over the fact that OP referred to a girls ass as her "rear quarters"

lmao

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I can't get over the fact that OP referred to a girls *** as her "rear quarters"

lmao

I enjoy getting creative with euphemisms, personally. And hindquarters is an actual word at least.

Not one I'd necessarily ascribe to a human being, but it would be funny if I did.

 

[GM_3826]

One's opinion of Roy changes dramatically when one actually plays FE7 and FE6.

As does Marth.
Ike is a pretty interesting character, but the reason everyone loves Marth in Japan is basically because nostalgia. He's worse than a lot of the AWAKENING CHARACTERS. I always felt that Awakening was an amazing change of pace for the series. What I never got was when I went on Serene's Forest, and found that almost everyone who spoke up hated the game. Sure, it's not the best game ever, but there's a reason it was hyped. While Awakening's characters may be a pastiche compared to FE4, FE5, and every game following FE6, they're much better than a lot of what the series has to offer.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

As does Marth.
Ike is a pretty interesting character, but the reason everyone loves Marth in Japan is basically because nostalgia. He's worse than a lot of the AWAKENING CHARACTERS. I always felt that Awakening was an amazing change of pace for the series. What I never got was when I went on Serene's Forest, and found that almost everyone who spoke up hated the game. Sure, it's not the best game ever, but there's a reason it was hyped. While Awakening's characters may be a pastiche compared to FE4, FE5, and every game following FE6, they're much better than a lot of what the series has to offer.

You don't see me this active in the Marth forums, do you?

 

[Aninymouse]

As does Marth.
Ike is a pretty interesting character, but the reason everyone loves Marth in Japan is basically because nostalgia. He's worse than a lot of the AWAKENING CHARACTERS. I always felt that Awakening was an amazing change of pace for the series. What I never got was when I went on Serene's Forest, and found that almost everyone who spoke up hated the game. Sure, it's not the best game ever, but there's a reason it was hyped. While Awakening's characters may be a pastiche compared to FE4, FE5, and every game following FE6, they're much better than a lot of what the series has to offer.

Awakening does have a clutch of excellent characters, I will give you that. It is sad to me that Chrom is not one of them. As far as main characters go, the Avatar and Lucina are much more interesting, personality-wise, and in battle.

I could list my favorites, but it's beside the point of the thread, really. Suffice to say, Awakening is not a bad game. It just irks me at times, is all. I kind of miss the epic battles of RD, for one. The maps in Awakening as so tiny...

 

[Ultima777]

My reaction to when someone said just replace Ike with Chrom and give him Ike`s move set.

 

[Banjodorf]

One's opinion of Roy changes dramatically when one actually plays FE7 and FE6.

Tell me about it. Actually playing FE6 has made me wonder what the hell people are smoking when they act like Chrom is the worst possible character for a third FE rep.

At least when playing Awakening I could get attached to Chrom's character and sympathize with what was going on. I mean it wasn't amazing storytelling, and certainly wasn't as interesting as anything in the masterpiece Tellius saga, (except for that cringe-worthy voice-acting...) but at least I could care about him, and get exposed to everything he had to offer. Still loved Awakening and support Chrom though, especially now that Ike hasn't left.

Whereas Roy is not only the worst piece of **** I've ever seen in terms of a Lord, but completely hollow and uninteresting in every way. Is he not a blue-haired lord? Cool I guess. Ike is blue-haired, and he's the best Lord in the series. I don't see the problem with blue hair.

Seriously. Not only do I not care about Roy at all during the events of FE6, but he gives me very little to work with, and when he tries, comes off as a stereotypical hero, and at worst a gullible idiot. Mind you, I didn't really care for the main characters in FE7 either, so maybe it's just me.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Ike rules. I could go on for a while about how I like him and PoR but it'd just be a retread of previous posts.

As for Chrom & friends and Awakening, they're really just par for the course. Fire Emblem games have always had generic goody heroes and average stories with occasional high moments. I liked the game, I liked Chrom just fine -- boring as he, Robin, and Lucina definitely were. So I think it's less about Chrom and Awakening being the step back some people might see it as and more about Ike and PoR (not RD) being exceptional for the series.

And yes, I most certainly would've been super bitter if Chrom replaced Ike.

Tell me about it. Actually playing FE6 has made me wonder what the hell people are smoking when they act like Chrom is the worst possible character for a third FE rep.

See, this I don't get. Roy's suckiness as a unit is one thing, but his suckiness as a written character is a trait shared with every single FE lead other than Ike. If we're going for a third FE character, we might as well do it based on aesthetics. I'd rather Marth Ike Roy than Marth Ike Marth or Marth Ike Ike. If it weren't for Melee, I'd be hard for Robin.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My reaction to when someone said just replace Ike with Chrom and give him Ike`s move set.

View attachment 14970 or depending on my mood.

I edited this post because of the language in the picture. Let's keep it G rated people!

I still maintain Chrom can be unique ENOUGH from Marth and Ike. I don't see Lucina or Robin happening, so I have confidence something will be done with Chrom to make him unique. I'm just happy Ike got in though, because he's a great character.

 

[Ultima777]

I edited this post because of the language in the picture. Let's keep it G rated people!

I still maintain Chrom can be unique ENOUGH from Marth and Ike. I don't see Lucina or Robin happening, so I have confidence something will be done with Chrom to make him unique. I'm just happy Ike got in though, because he's a great character.

Ah sorry about that. So I am guessing you agree with me that giving him Ike`s move set would`ve been dumb right?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ah sorry about that. So I am guessing you agree with me that giving him Ike`s move set would`ve been dumb right?

Indeed I do. I even agreed with the picture you posted. But I had to sensor it nonetheless.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

"Prepare yourself."

After reading some of the brilliant responses compiled in the OP and some preponderance, Ike has grown a bit closer to me as a character. The way Radiant Dawn is described would make a great avenue to explore his character and universe. He certainly was someone i was counting out for Smash 4. That's why I felt some shock seeing him be revealed. In a sort of "Aw, come on!" way too. Moreso, how he would affect the chances of not just Chrom, but an Awakening character.

A key factor in my impression of Chrom is partly due to how I first played Fire Emblem through Awakening. Not to say that I wasn't well aware of Fire Emblem before I played it. I would definitely pick up previous entries in the future, as enlightened as seasoned veterans make it known better. After playing Awakening for a while, you certainly notice many of its flaws pointed out by other posters too. Almost the entire cast embody anime archetypes saves for a token few including Lucina, Robin, and Frederick. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy my bodacious bewbs and butts in my games. But the cheesecake comes in one too many courses here, as the representation of the female cast is sexualized for every flavor and fetish. Hell, i'd argue that Lucina herself was reserved to be developed as that dignified, prog-fem girl. The story and its implications are downplayed from the epic scale battles, endearing characterizations, and grey morality the series has shown capable of. The Magic Trinity and the triad within Anima are removed along with Light being nonexistant. The difficulty isn't scaled accordingly to previous games along with the gameplay being oversimplified for some. Despite these detriments, Awakening puts on a solid performance. I find its gameplay a perfect fine tuning along with its reclassing system. Awakening probably had to make a lot of those decisions for a wider appeal. It was quite successful in that regard. So much so it's went beyond saving a dying franchises to getting a nice profit out of a niche franchise.

I blame how great of an impression Awakening left on me for why I am so attached to Chrom, as well as many others. Chrom may not be the most developed and the way he deals with the events of the story are far from the brightest (I'd also say Awakening has an annoying penchant of focus shifting on multiple characters for different arcs that they can't be defined correctly), he still remains a likable, cool character that you warm up to. He was there from start to finish, taking us neophytes and veterans along the ride. He's has a great shot at being one of the more novel Smash characters. But ultimately, he's borrows between Marth and Ike all the way up to that royal blue ruffet. Sakurai certainly could differentiate Chrom to be unique from the two lords we already have. My moveset's a good example of this.

Face it, with every new Fire Emblem, there's going to be many people, especially those outside the community, compelled to the new main character. What this means when it carries over to Smash 5 remains to be seen. You can certainly support them without resorting to Xeno's bellicose talkdowns nor succumb to dicksucking to the enlightened. You may even convict how myopic I was towards the Chrom support thread because of how I speculate in my mind. When it comes to Smash speculation, I arrange different scenarios. The ones that have more appeal to me will play out more. Lucina's just too visually and combatively redundant to me, even more than Chrom. There's the unique darkhorse, Anna, who would be welcome preferably as a 4th as well as present the series in general. I'm starting to warm up to Robin more since Ike. He/she would represent both Awakening and bring a new weapon style from Fire Emblem Smash has never seen before. Even then, Chrom is still a very viable choice. And I will continue supporting him.

If there's anything to take from Ike's return, it's that we're certainly getting more than two Fire Emblem characters and that Sakurai is truly implementing the roster with uniqueness in mind. Ike's playstyle makes him questionable for a cut. He isn't a dull clone like Roy, who when we got Ike many fell into thinking the two-lord pattern was at play. Clones are a thing of the past. It was evident by who was chosen to cut from Melee. Even Mewtwo, the only cut character with its own uniqueness, didn't come at the right time to be spared. So Sakurai again puts your mind into his smoke and mirrors.

However, what joy Ike brings also comes along with my biggest concern. Smash is a game of numbers. Slots to barter which veterans stay and which newcomers go. All divided between series and their caps. Eventually, there may reach a point where the roster, especially growing out of series like Fire Emblem, becomes oversaturated. Characters like Ike becoming veterans creates attachment to the fans. Just imagine how many characters will come back from Smash 4 and buff up the roster even further. Hopefully he can please everyone staying within 39-45.

 

[Aninymouse]

@ Sarki Soliloquy Yeah, the roster can't keep growing forever. This game may be the biggest the game can get and still keep its high benchmark for quality... maybe. I'm not too worried about the next iteration, though. I haven't even played this one yet!

I'm glad you shared your thoughts. That was a lot of fun to read right before I head off to sleep. I also appreciate that I'm not the only one who saw all the cheesecake, as you put it. Awakening has its flaws, but it's a lot of fun, and the sound and graphical quality is top-notch for a Fire Emblem title. I just wish all the swordsmen and swords...women? didn't all do jump attacks, like, every single time. So many jumping attacks.

I mean... just look at the Black Knight using Eclipse, sometime. Now THAT is a way to use a sword that not only looks convincing, but.... I mean, the Black Knight looks like he is straight up destroying his target. No hope. Every time a swordsman jumps in Awakening, I'm like... Dude, you are leaving yourself WIDE OPEN. But it's a small thing. It really is. It's a personal nitpick. I still love the battles.

My favorite Awakening characters are Gregor, Lucina, Henry, Virion, Vaike, Gaius, Miriel, Olivia, and yes, Chrom. Granted, I'm playing on Normal for my first run through the game and Donnel never got recruited, so I dunno if I'd like him or not. Chrom has his shortcomings, but he's still very likable, and his voice is nice. I haven't met any of the children yet, except for Lucina. I'll probably like a lot of them, especially since their parent's relationships make them feel all the more like a real family. I'm also kinda shocked I ended up liking Olivia so much, considering she starts out in the Dancer class, but she's so modest and humble... it's attractive. Thankfully, the in-battle models aren't too detailed, haha. And MAN, her stats are insane! All I did was give her a couple +2 Strength items and she is EASILY my most overpowered unit, as a Swordmaster. I saw a guy post the idea online: Reclass Olivia to a Myrmidon, promote to Swordmaster for Swordfair, reclass to Dark Flier for Galeforce, reclass to Dancer for ultimate unit of enemy destruction.

 

[Shorts]

My main question is why people actually thought Chrom could replace Ike successfully, because Chrom is pretty obviously the inferior choice.

Who will be in the game as well. Both, nay every Fire Emblem character in smash so far bores me almost entirely. They are flat. I want to see something interesting from this series.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my thoughts.

Heh, I guess Leaping Strike on Chrom really would cement just how much the characters, freaking, jump, with, dem, swords! Perfect nod to rep, amirite?

I'll compile what I think about my favorite Awakening characters here. I don't want to derail the topic.

Spoiler

As far as the Awakening cast goes, Chrom, Robin, Lucina, Frederick, Henry, Olivia, Owain, and Anna are my faves. All of them leave the most memorable impressions out of the cast. I think I don't need to explain Chrom any further.

Robin is a great character to fit yourself into, even if customization is so limited. In FE14, I would love to see a personality customization options that could affect your dialogue, temperament, support compatibility, and maybe the story, if it doesn';t end up making it a derailed mess. Also love the enigma you're touted off as.

Besides being the strong independent woman who don't need no man, Lucina's story is pretty endearing and she's a level-headed, compassionate person as well. Goes to show how female characters can be so cool without showing an inch of skin or needing to be codependent.

Frederick seems more nuanced out of the rest of the cast. Not really many stereotypes he exaggerates maybe besides that badass servant guy who always gives their service to their superior's needs. This is even subverted with one of Chrom's supports. Also makes the best tank if you level and reclass him correctly. He's an walking fortress even through midgame. I made him a Wyvern Rider too and it helps him pubstomp lines full of canon fodder!

Henry is just a bro. Such a masochistic, morbid person with a playful heart. I love it! I chuckled when he had all those crows around him and Chrom gets flustered by it! Way more likable than Tharja, who I could just never get around. Why do people just love her so much? Because she's a hottie equipped with a pair of watermelons with the personality commixed of a yandere and a theistic Satanist?

♪ Olivia, she's a really cool dancer! Olivia, bogey to the groove now! ♫ She has a personality that I find very relatable to mine. She has great skill, but is too timid and inconfident to show it. Every moment for her is awkward and jarring. D'awww, that makes me want to cuddle her. Probably gonna S Support her in my Hard run. Being a niche support unit, she and Troubadour Lissa make a brilliant wombo combo. Keep both of them in a good defensive parameter and you can optimize more heals in less turns! I suppose it would take a while grinding her all the way to get enough Attack, Skill, and Speed as a Myrmidon and get her galeforce and that's could mean up to 6X THE TURNS COMBINED!

Owain's theatrical antics and monologue are entertaining (My sword arm twitches.) It's like watching a kid maintain a pretend facade that he's a superhero impunitively while his parents awkwardly play along with it, failing immersion. You probably haven't encountered him yet because you haven't support Lissa to S with a partner to unlock his Paralogue.

Last, but not least, there's the lovely Anna. she's been a pretty reliable unit to stick out a lot of battles. Her Speed, Luck, and Avoid make her dodge a lot of bullets and almost always score an assist. Need a mobile healer who can stand by another unit? Call her! Other than that, her flirty, courteous personality might be why I'm surprisingly compelled to her. She's going to be my wife for my current run. Having her make it into Smash 4 would be icing on the cake. She would link the series to its roots by Ankoku no Ryu no Hikari to Tsrugi/Shadow Dragon to her sparse appearance in the tutorial of Radiant Dawn and over to he debut as a playable character in Awakening. Think about that!

 

[Aninymouse]

Who will be in the game as well. Both, nay every Fire Emblem character in smash so far bores me almost entirely. They are flat. I want to see something interesting from this series.

That's how I used to feel about Marth, before I became a Fire Emblem player.

Not everyone likes every character, though. Like for me, since I never played any of the MOTHER games, Ness and Lucas mean nothing to me, really. They feel boring to me when I plays as them, because I have no emotional attachment to them from which to draw context for their moves and personalities.

That said, I don't think Ness or Lucas need drastic changes. But I sure wouldn't want a third character exactly like them.

That's why I think that whoever ends up being FE character #3 will be very different from Marth and Ike in playstyle, My idea for Chrom is pretty much bonkers, since he'd have to be a promoted unit (Great Lord), but it would be extremely different. Think about what Hilde in Soul Calibur is like:

Shorten up the spear, lengthen up the sword, add a jump attack, and you get the basic idea. Hey, a man can dream, right?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Awakening was a commercial success but it failed the dignity test big time, Fire Emblem have always been one of the most dignified franchises in gaming it didn't follow the trends of "fan service" (it's definitely not a service to the franchise fans though).

 

[DraginHikari]

Awakening was a commercial success but it failed the dignity test big time, Fire Emblem have always been one of the most dignified franchises in gaming it didn't follow the trends of "fan service" (it's definitely not a service to the franchise fans though).

The problem is with dignity is that a company is pretty easy to give it up when they find themselves in a corner and the entire franchise is at risk of becoming the next F-Zero series in Nintendo back IP catalog. The sad reality as much as we were fond of the series, each game was selling less and less even in Japan where the series had always at least been profitiable. It was pretty much, find a way to make this sell or we're not going to continue to fund these games, IS more or less forced to find the way to make the game more appealable to more people then the hardcore FE fanbase, simply that hardcore base was shrinking and shrinking. Unforunately, that type of change in mindset doesn't come without some alienation of the hardcore fanbase.

Admittively, Awakening did handle some of these elements kind of strangely, but they did manage to increase interest in the FE series and make it successful, which does leave them some room where they may be able to try some different things again down the road. As much as we may not like all the changes, it is sometimes a necessary evil.

 

[Frostwraith]

Having played both Awakening and Radiant Dawn, I agree with a lot of points being brought here.

Anyway, I believe that both games have their strong and weak points.

I think the ultimate FE would take cues from both those games. Complex, well-written story like Radiant Dawn, with compelling characters, while having some of the great additions Awakening brought to the series, such as more unit customization and extra content as DLC.

Also, some of the designs in Awakening were completely ridiculous, especially the Armor Knight and General classes.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Having played both Awakening and Radiant Dawn, I agree with a lot of points being brought here.

Anyway, I believe that both games have their strong and weak points.

I think the ultimate FE would take cues from both those games. Complex, well-written story like Radiant Dawn, with compelling characters, while having some of the great additions Awakening brought to the series, such as more unit customization and extra content as DLC.

Also, some of the designs in Awakening were completely ridiculous, especially the Armor Knight and General classes.

Awakening freedom and gameplay elements with Radiant Dawn Story and Aesthetics....now we're talking!

 

[Deleted member 212841]

Also, some of the designs in Awakening were completely ridiculous, especially the Armor Knight and General classes.

Funny you should mention those classes considering they were silly in RD as well. They had tons of armor but a complete helmet-less and vulnerable head.

Assassins were the dumbest Awakening class. I'm not sure how you are supposed to be discreet with massive arm spikes.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Funny you should mention those classes considering they were silly in RD as well. They had tons of armor but a complete helmet-less and vulnerable head.

Assassins were the dumbest Awakening class. I'm not sure how you are supposed to be discreet with massive arm spikes.

How is that silly ? that's a really practical armour

 

[Deleted member 212841]

First image is from PoR.

As for the others I'm not sure. I did a google search to double check my memory and I'm finding helmet-less.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121016014357/fireemblem/images/8/8f/FE10_Brom_Axe_General.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121028150623/fireemblem/images/e/e4/FE10_Marshall_(Gatrie).png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121227142032/fireemblem/images/7/79/FE10_Marshall_(Meg).png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb...blem/images/4/41/FE10_Marshall_(Tauroneo).png

Might have been specific classes in the knight line.