Thoughts on Dragon Quest DLC?...

Improdigal

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#41
No. I think Hero's trailer did a better job at showing the character off. Banjo's trailer was just nostalgia bait.
To be honest, looking at this objectively, you're completely right the Hero's trailer was really well done. I mean it got me hyped for the Hero despite not playing any DQ game myself. Banjo, on the other hand, seemed rather uninteresting to me but I'm not going to attack the people who wanted him in because I can appreciate the fact that many people wanted him. It's sad how much hate the DQ character is getting.
 

ThreeT

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#43
Just hopping on in and giving some impressions,

To me, the trailer for Hero was much more interesting than the one for Banjo. This is mainly because Banjo's moveset didn't seem to have anything really special about him. The hype around him was mostly due to people who wanted him in Smash for over a decade, but since I never played either of the games I didn't really care. It would have been the same for Hero if it wasn't for his interesting use of MP which got me extremely interested in the series. I ended up buying Dragon Quest 8 for the 3ds later that week and ended up loving it. Over 60 hours on the game so far which had made me even more excited to play Hero when he launches. I'm also now prepared for Dragon Quest 11 later in September! Not all people will like Hero, but you have to admit that bringing Dragon Quest to Smash was amazing way of advertising the series to the west.
 

Frizz

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#44
That's pretty much it. Banjo's hype comes from people who played his games beforehand or people who just simply jumped on the Banjo bandwagon despite not playing his games or knowing who he is. As a result, from an outsiders' perspective, he doesn't really have much that makes him stand out or anything.

Hero is different, since he has an MP gimmick combined with a vast majority of spells in his arsenal. I haven't touched a single game of Dragon Quest, but I'm still hyped for Hero regardless. Who cares if he has a sword? Swords are cool. If you can't fight well enough with your bare fists, then using a sword is the next best way to go. That or a gun or blaster or something.

Although I do think Fire Emblem could do better with the "representation", Dragon Quest shouldn't be targeted at for something they didn't cause.

I guess it all comes down to preference. If you like cartoonish characters, Banjo's your guy. If you like "anime" characters, you got Hero. Tensions were high whether it was gonna be either Dragon Quest or Banjo, and we ended up getting both. It's a win-win.
 

Xelrog

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#45
Hero looks cool from a gameplay perspective, but on the opposite extreme, I don't think Banjo being simple is a problem. Far from it in fact. So many new characters recently have been so gimmicky with bars and meters and doodads that a plain old brawler is really refreshing. It's good to have a simple and straightforward character in the mix at least now and then.
 
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Sunredo

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#46
Hero looks cool from a gameplay perspective, but on the opposite extreme, I don't think Banjo being simple is a problem. Far from it in fact. So many new characters recently have been so gimmicky with bars and meters and doodads that a plain old brawler is really refreshing. It's good to have a simple and straightforward character in the mix at least now and then.
I don't find the gimmicks or meters hard to follow at all myself. I mean, :ultjoker:'s gimmick isn't exactly the hardest to get. The bar fills up until it reaches it's peak, at which time Arsene is unleashed until the bar is empty. :ultshulk: can choose and switch to a different art that buffs a specific property while nerfing others. I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't ever get a more straightforward character but to call Banjo refreshing as if we finally got a straightforward character after tons of complex ones feels off to me. :ultpiranha: was straightforward as well was he not? What about :ultridley:?:ultkrool:? Most of Ultimate's roster is made up of brawlers and relatively straightforward characters. Sure there's :ultinkling: and :ultsimon: but nearly everyone else barely has any strings attached. It just seems like (and I don't want to come off as being mean here, this is just what I feel) a consensus that's being spread in an attempt to make Banjo seem more unique in the roster than he actually is. I'm looking forward to him too as I did honestly grow up with the games but to call him refreshing as if we haven't got a character like him in ultimate is stretching it imo.
 
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#48
Hero was definitely overshadowed by banjo for me cosnidering Banjo is pretty much a long-held dream come true but i'm still both glad to see dragon quest in smash and am really happy with the way they decided to represent it. and for all the "lol, swordsman" arguments i have to say look at how many characters just punch stuff in smash, it's ignorant to assume all sword characters have to be marth clones just because of the way fire emblem specifically is in smash! It's great to see both a true magic swordsman(robin is just a squishy wizard who uses a sword sometimes) AND an rpg character who has their menu pop up in battle IMO.

Also i agree with you, xelrog i prefer good ol fashion solid kits over putting on meters and such so banjo just being a (hopefully)decent smash character and nothing more is great in my book. You don't need gimmicks to be interesting, you just need a good core moveset. THAT is the most important part to making a good smash character IMO.
 
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Sunredo

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#49
Also i agree with you, xelrog i prefer good ol fashion solid kits over putting on meters and such so banjo just being a (hopefully)decent smash character and nothing more is great in my book. You don't need gimmicks to be interesting, you just need a good core moveset. THAT is the most important part to making a good smash character IMO.
I know you're not directing that at me or anything, but I didn't mean to imply that having a unique mechanic or a meter is what makes smash characters interesting. I'm just saying that having something like a meter or a unique mechanic doesn't increase a characters depth by that alone. Joker, for example, only has the meter to keep track of how long until Arsene comes out and how long Arsene stays.

This next part isn't directed at either of you two cause at this point I'm on a tangent, but I think it's often exaggerated how "gimmicky" some characters like Joker are.

Like, this is what I see:

And this is what I feel like other people see:
Screenshot 2019-07-03 at 12.46.20 AM (1).jpg
 

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#50
To be frank, an MP system was long overdue. And I’m glad it was DQ the one that brought it over to Smash.

Gimicky? Maybe, but I know for a fact that it put more people on board despite not knowing anything about Hero, than driving them away.
I could tell due to various reactions from people who were initially indifferent.


Also, didn’t I hear somewhere that Banjo will have something like a Kazooie feather running out type of gimmick? I haven’t played BK so I’m not sure what they’re talking about. But from what I see, and I admit I understand the sentiment, Banjo seems like a Smash 64 character that never was.
 
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#51
One of banjo's specials is the golden invincibility feather charge which much like the game it originates in appeared to have a feather counter that goes down every time the duo takes a hit during it. and yes, i agree the mp and command list systems are something i've really wanted to see in an rpg character for a long time, it's honestly brilliant and i hope it doesn't disappoint on release.(and from what we've seen it goes hand in hand with their entire kit as resource to draw from and keep track of based on one's own judgement rather than seeming like a crutch)
 
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Xelrog

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#52
I know you're not directing that at me or anything, but I didn't mean to imply that having a unique mechanic or a meter is what makes smash characters interesting. I'm just saying that having something like a meter or a unique mechanic doesn't increase a characters depth by that alone. Joker, for example, only has the meter to keep track of how long until Arsene comes out and how long Arsene stays.

This next part isn't directed at either of you two cause at this point I'm on a tangent, but I think it's often exaggerated how "gimmicky" some characters like Joker are.

Like, this is what I see:

And this is what I feel like other people see:
You're exactly right. That is what other people see.

Giving one character a specific mechanic that no other character in the 80-character roster has is a gimmick. Which I can tolerate, but it's not something I want for every one of the 80 characters because it ends up being a lot to remember and is a real, tangible turnoff for new players. Having a meter/gimmick does not increase a character's depth but it does inherently increase the complexity of the character (which is especially problematic if it's increasing complexity without increasing depth) and, more importantly, the complexity of the game as a whole. A huge part of Smash's selling point is its simplicity compared to other fighters.

That's why in a world of K. Rool's special snowflake armor mechanics and Joker's special "help I'm losing" meter and Hero's RPG menus and Incineroar's self-buff reliance and Inkling's ink, it's nice to have a few characters like Mario, Plant, and Banjo who just freakin' hit stuff. It's nice. That's all.
 
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