This fight will be your last! Sub-Zero for Smash!

SuperDoom1

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#1
This thread was once joined with the Scorpion thread, but then the moderators locked it (months after they deleted my semi-jokey older Scorpion thread likely for the big Censorship Yoshi (I'm not kidding, I actually put a giant crudely-drawn Yoshi in that post)) because of being for two separate characters in one thread without a lot of stuff in OP.



Sub-Zero.
While it is the name of a bottle company it's also the name of a character from Mortal Kombat, famous for his attire and fatality. I have a Sub-0 bottle and the first thing I thought of when I saw it in my lunchbox was this character. (Ironically, I despised that bottle.)

Tied with Scorpion for the most popular character in MK (maybe), he has a better chance of getting in than someone like Goro. And seeing how every MK game through Armageddon was on a Nintendo console, he has a better chance of getting in than Solid Snake ever did, and he was in Brawl.

I already hear all the complaints about "BLOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOD! FLIP AND TEAR UP!", so I have an easy solution:
When Mortal Kombat 1 was released back in the day, neither Nintendo nor Sega would tolerate blood and gore in their games. Both ports had their own solution.

The Super Nintendo replaced all blood with sweat. Fatalities...I don't even know.

The Sega Genesis (or Mega Drive overseas...it's not a good commando name) instead took a different route. It omitted all blood/sweat completely. Fatalities...Subby's was just a harsh uppercut instead of the "RIP AND TEAR...the opponent's head off". All others are essentially untouched except maybe Kano's. To get the full experience back, there was an additional screen talking about how "The word "code" has many different definitions.". Inputting the code 'A-B-A-C-A-B-B' re-unlocks the blood.


Supporters:
Sub-Zero Alone: GolisoPower, maybe Irene?
Sub-Zero + Sweat:
Sub-Zero + Code: SuperDoom1


GET OVER HERE!
 
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#2
On your last thread, I said I don’t care which of the two gets in and that a Mortal Kombat character would be nice. But after thinking about it, I thought to myself “Hey, we don’t have many ice characters in Smash Bros, Sub-Zero would totally fit the bill!” So I’ve decided to support Sub-Zero!

Also from your last thread was a question that no one sadly had the time to answer before it locked: Would Sakurai make an original design for Sub-Zero or would he use any of the old designs from past MK games (and/or Injustice 2) for Smash?
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#3
On your last thread, I said I don’t care which of the two gets in and that a Mortal Kombat character would be nice. But after thinking about it, I thought to myself “Hey, we don’t have many ice characters in Smash Bros, Sub-Zero would totally fit the bill!” So I’ve decided to support Sub-Zero!

Also from your last thread was a question that no one sadly had the time to answer before it locked: Would Sakurai make an original design for Sub-Zero or would he use any of the old designs from past MK games (and/or Injustice 2) for Smash?
Honestly, he has multiple designs. I'm guessing whatever is the latest one would be pushed. That said, references to his old costumes seem like a given, but then again, we have stuff like Pac-Man not having a Ms. Pac-Man alt, so...
 

SuperDoom1

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#4
On your last thread, I said I don’t care which of the two gets in and that a Mortal Kombat character would be nice. But after thinking about it, I thought to myself “Hey, we don’t have many ice characters in Smash Bros, Sub-Zero would totally fit the bill!” So I’ve decided to support Sub-Zero!

Also from your last thread was a question that no one sadly had the time to answer before it locked: Would Sakurai make an original design for Sub-Zero or would he use any of the old designs from past MK games (and/or Injustice 2) for Smash?
I'd imagine he'd have at least two alt costumes, MK3 and Saibot.
 

Kevandre

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#6
100% would love Sub-Zero in Smash, and I think Ultimate's DLC is the perfect time to do it. Gimme that ice fighter, gimme that Mortal Kombat representation (MK>SF any day). Absolutely in on this one.
 

Gemini-Gene

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#7
So it looks like MK11 is also coming to the Switch. And with Joker's reveal it opened the door to a bigger list of characters that could be for the DLC pass. While Scorpion has just as much of a chance as Sub-Zero does for Ultimate, I'm going to go with Sub-Zero as a possible DLC newcomer. His ice moves could make for a great move set like spawning ice clones and throwing them at your opponent, creating ice puddles, freezing your opponent, possibly bringing in the Aggressor mechanic from UMK3, and etc.
 

Kevandre

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#8
So it looks like MK11 is also coming to the Switch. And with Joker's reveal it opened the door to a bigger list of characters that could be for the DLC pass. While Scorpion has just as much of a chance as Sub-Zero does for Ultimate, I'm going to go with Sub-Zero as a possible DLC newcomer. His ice moves could make for a great move set like spawning ice clones and throwing them at your opponent, creating ice puddles, freezing your opponent, possibly bringing in the Aggressor mechanic from UMK3, and etc.
I agree, as soon as I saw MK11 was on Switch I was like "Okay this might be happening"
 

7 or 7

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#10
I am definitely a supporter of Bi-Han getting into Smash, out of all the MK characters he deserves it the most in my opinion. Sub-Zero is literally one of the most influential parts of video game history (ESRB). The whole "his games are violent" argument doesn't matter anymore now that Snake is back, like homeboy is out there choking people. I think Sub-Zero would probably use his classic look as Smash is a celebration of video game history, if we got a "P2" look with Liang's MK3 outfit I could die a happy man lol.
 
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#11
Looking back now, this got me thinking:

Do you think Sub-Zero would have M.K. mechanics in Smash? Like, say, his ground attacks can be used in strings like a traditional Mortal Kombat game, and the inputs from that game seem more unique and simple in comparison to Ryu and Ken’s Street Fighter inputs.
 
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7 or 7

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#12
Looking back now, this got me thinking:

Do you think Sub-Zero would have M.K. mechanics in Smash? Like, say, his ground attacks can be used in strings like a traditional Mortal Kombat game, and the inputs from that game seem more unique and simple in comparison to Ryu and Ken’s Street Fighter inputs.
Considering they found a way to add street fighter inputs in Smash I think that it is very possible. I feel like Bi-Han would play a little defensive, using ice traps kind of like Snake but having combo starters that you can use when you see an opening.
 
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#13
Maybe Sub-Zero’s Classic mode would be a reference to the seven-man roster and arcade ladder of the first Mortal Kombat game? It would work similarly to Ryu’s (Stamina 1v1 on Omega). Stage 1 would be Little Mac, representing Johnny Cage, Stage 2 would be Zero Suit Samus as Sonya Blade, Stage 3, Robin as Raiden, Stage 4, Mega Man as Kano (Couldn’t think of a better fighter), Stage 5, Ken as Liu Kang, Stage 6, Roy as Scorpion (Couldn’t think of a better fighter) and Final Boss would be Dracula representing Shang Tsung.

Alright, guys, I’ve crafted a moveset for Sub-Zero. Enjoy!:

Playstyle: Sub-Zero is a defensive character oriented around luring opponents into his range. His specials are all about trapping his opponents in ice and leaving them open for combos, and his ground normals are unique and can be strung together for combos. However, his throws are not special in terms of damage and by themselves, his normals don’t deal much damage, as a reflection of his more defensive personality. Mobile characters like Sonic and Jigglypuff can easily maneuver around Sub-Zero’s traps and attack him just as easily because of it. He is also heavy and his ground movement is slow, making him easy to hit.

Unique Mechanic: Some of Sub-Zero’s grounded normals can be used in combo strings, which are listed before his specials. Also similarly to Ryu and Ken, Sub-Zero can use inputs from his home series to enhance his specials, but unlike those of the Street Fighters, the Mortal Kombatant’s inputs are more simplistic. Similarly to Ryu and Ken, Sub-Zero constantly faces his opponent in one-on-one matches.

Jab: Sub-Zero does the Quick Slice string from his Cryomancer variation, which consists of him jabbing twice with his furthermost hand then slashing downwards with an ice sword. The player can cancel out of the second hit with other specials for added damage. The sword swing brings an effect unique to Sub-Zero, the stagger, which forces the opponent to take a few steps backwards on hit.

F-tilt: Sub-Zero slams his elbow downwards. This isn’t anything special, but can be used as a start for a few strings.

U-tilt: Sub-Zero kicks upwards, similarly to the first hit in his string ‘Chill Out’ from Injustice 2.

D-tilt: Sub-Zero performs a sweeping kick. This can be used to trip opponents, similarly to Pichu’s F-tilt.

Dash Attack: Sub-Zero uses his signature Slide move. This causes Sub-Zero to go forward in a burst of speed for the distance of a Battlefield platform before abruptly ending. Opponents hit are knocked upwards behind Sub-Zero, making it a good cross-up tool. If the player does :GCL::GCR::GCA:, Sub-Zero can follow up the slide with a burst of ice that can be used as a kill move.

Grab: A normal grab.

Pummel: A knee to the gut.

F-throw: Sub-Zero goes behind the opponent and stabs them with an ice sword before jumping out from the side of the screen. He will then jump from the other side and punch them in the face, ending the throw.

D-throw: Sub-Zero creates a bed of ice spikes behind the opponent and pushes them onto it before jumping atop them, sending them flying. Based on the Ice Bed fatality from MKX. This can be used to cover some distance similarly to Ken’s Hell Wheel.

B-throw: The same as F-throw, but instead he turns them around before stabbing them.

U-throw: Sub-Zero slashes an Ice sword twice before slashing upwards.

N-air: Sub-Zero creates an arcing slash around him with an ice sword. This is inspired by his Forward-medium attack from the games.

F-air: Sub-Zero shoots his foot out in front of him.

D-air: Sub-Zero plummets downwards with a large ice Hammer in hand. This has a meteor strike. If he hits the ground with this, there will be an ice burst that damages both sides on impact.

B-air: Sub-Zero kicks behind himself.

U-air: Sub-Zero swipes two ice daggers above himself.

Side Smash: Sub-Zero forms an ice hammer and charges before swinging it over himself and smashing it into the ground, breaking it.

Up Smash: Sub-Zero crouches downwards and charges before releasing an uppercut. At the start and end of the move, there’s far less knockback than in the middle, but is great for combos.

Down Smash: Sub-Zero charged with ice before smashing his palms together, creating a burst of ice that damages in front and behind.

Strings: Sub-Zero’s combo strings are a part of his playstyle, and are unique to him. Each string is three buttons long and deals some decent damage. Jab in-and-of-itself is a string, but there are more advanced strings that can be done:

  • Side-tilt, Jab: Sub-Zero performs the elbow smash before following up with a spinning backhand. Does some decent damage overall.
  • Jab, Jab, Down-tilt: Same as jab, but Sub-Zero kicks the opponent’s legs, causing them to trip.
  • Jab, Down-tilt, Down-tilt: Starts off like jab does, but hits downwards twice and is good for killing.
  • Side-tilt, Jab, Grab: Same as Side-tilt + Jab, but finishes off with Sub-Zero throwing the opponent behind him. This can be good for cross-ups and is a decent kill move.
Neutral B: Ice Ball: Functioning similarly to a one-handed Hadouken, the ice ball is used as a means of zoning. While a decent projectile by itself, Sub-Zero can use :GCD::GCR::GCA: to enhance the Ice Ball and allow it to freeze the opponent on impact. Unlike normal freezing, the opponents don’t get sent flying after getting frozen, but are encased in ice and completely ceased in movement, whether they’re on the ground or on the air. They can mash out of it, but until then, they are left open for attack.

Side B: Polar Puncture: A command grab that has Sub-Zero stab the opponent with an ice dagger three times before smashing two of them into the opponent. By using :GCD::GCL::GCR::GCA:, you can enhance it to freeze on impact. If Sub-Zero lands the normal version, it will stagger the opponent, but the move will have terrible end lag.

Up B: Ice Port: A teleport move similar to Zelda’s or Mewtwo’s. However, that’s when used in the air. When used on the ground, Sub-Zero will teleport to one of three locations on the platform he’s standing on: behind the opponent, at the edge of the platform, or at the other end based on whether or not you tilt the joystick in a horizontal direction. This is the only special that doesn’t use M.K. inputs.

Down B: Ice Clone: This has different functions based on whether or not Sub-Zero is airborne. On the ground Sub-Zero jumps backwards and creates an ice clone. This ice clone serves many purposes: it can tank a physical hit from an opponent to freeze them and block enemy projectiles. Sub-Zero can also use Down Smash near the clone to increase range or use grab on it to throw it as a projectile. However, the ice clone is temporary. Using it in the air will have Sub-Zero leave behind a static airborne clone while propelling himself backwards. The airborne variant can be used for recovery if under the right circumstances. By using :GCD::GCL::GCA:, Sub-Zero can create both grounded and airborne clones while jumping backwards. The downside is that the clones last for 10 seconds, and 7 seconds when using the input version.

Final Smash: X-Ray Move: Sub-Zero slides forward and strikes any opponent in a line. He will then jam his hand into the opponent’s torso, grabbing and squishing a rainbow-colored orb of energy inside of them, before pulling it out, creating a giant ice spike from the rainbow energy and jamming it into them, sending them flying. Sub-Zero can summon other Lin Kuei members equivalent to the number of characters hit, who will do the same. If the player holds down after activating, the Final Smash transforms into a counter with increased damage. If the opponent doesn’t trigger the counter, Sub-Zero can dash cancel out of it for increased mobility.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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#16
Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead. :)
 

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#19
Not like Mortal Kombat is banned there like it was in Australia at a certain point. It’s just kinda niche there, but so are plenty other series whose characters we support for Smash, and with MK11 coming to Switch on top of that, it’s reasonable for MK to get some upsurge in support now.
 
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#21
I admit, I'm still more inclined to get Scorpion in first, however, Sub Zero would still make a fantastic fighter in his own right. Best case scenario would be to get both so they could face off against Ryu and Ken, but I'll be happy to get either one.

Also, I guess I'm in the minority for preferring Kaui Liang over his big brother.
 

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#22
What would be the best kind of special moveset for Sub-Zero to have? It’s easier to think of for Scorpion, but for Subby it seems tricky to decide what freeze moves to have among four specials, given all the variants of freeze moves he has. Ground freeze (making the opponent slippery), ice clone, above/diagonal freeze blasts, etc. Would say the slide kick ought to be his side special or something though for sure.
 

Tetrin

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#23
Sub Zero, albeit less iconic, would probably be a lot more interesting a character than Scorpion. I'd love it if he was included, add me to the support list.
 
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#24
I wanna bring this back alive with a question:

How much of MK11 do you guys think will be in Smash if Subby does get in? I mean, the Fatal Blow is great Final Smash material if you take out the blood, and the Krushing Blows seem pretty unique enough.
 

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#25
I think Sub Zero is a huge sleeper pick. I'm actually starting to think he's very likely. I haven't updated my signature in a while, but at this point I'm predicting him as fighter pass 5. Never played Mortal Kombat, but that's my 2 cents.
 

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#26
Add me to the list of supporters. Sub-Zero along with Scorpion ARE gaming icons. And Sub-Zero's been a favorite of mine since I was a kid. No matter how unlikely, I'll support his inclusion.

I do think the biggest hurdle is getting him in since Japan doesn't care much for Mortal Kombat. In terms of Violence, Snake and Bayo come from violent games and were toned down just fine. So was Sub-Zero, if you count the SNES version of the first game.
 

TheFVguy

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#27
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1119269664637325312
So, Nintendo themselves decided to post a poll on who's the best ninja Scorpion or Sub-Zero. This might be nothing, but it's still kind of surprising that Nintendo themselves are tweeting this. I might be overthinking this, but it still something worth considering.
I'm fine with either Sub or Scorp to be in the game honestly.
 
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#28
What would the music selection for a MK Challenger Pack be like, is the question.

The only music I can think of is the original MK theme, the soundtrack for MKX and a bit of the soundtrack for MK9, but that's pretty much about it. I mean, unless Sakurai and NetherRealm are willing to compose original character themes for the characters, music's a little difficult.
 
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#29
I'm all for Sub Zero, he has always been my character of choice for MK (I started with Trilogy on N64).

I also seem to be one of few who thinks his likelihood is mostly as an echo of Scorpion. Which I actually see as a strong likelihood, if Scorpion gets in.
 

TheFVguy

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#30
I'm all for Sub Zero, he has always been my character of choice for MK (I started with Trilogy on N64).

I also seem to be one of few who thinks his likelihood is mostly as an echo of Scorpion. Which I actually see as a strong likelihood, if Scorpion gets in.
Well, it's confirmed that there will no Echo fighters as DLC, so that's a definitive no. It's either one or the other, personally, I'm for Sub because we already have a bunch of fire-based characters.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#31
Well, it's confirmed that there will no Echo fighters as DLC, so that's a definitive no. It's either one or the other, personally, I'm for Sub because we already have a bunch of fire-based characters.
Not exactly. It's confirmed they won't be part of the Fighter's Pass. Sub-Zero wouldn't get in outside of separate DLC, but only if Scorpion is a member of the FP itself.

...I literally almost typed that as Fire-Pass.
 

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#32
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1119269664637325312
So, Nintendo themselves decided to post a poll on who's the best ninja Scorpion or Sub-Zero. This might be nothing, but it's still kind of surprising that Nintendo themselves are tweeting this. I might be overthinking this, but it still something worth considering.
I'm fine with either Sub or Scorp to be in the game honestly.
That's actually really interesting. It's probably nothing, but it's more than most characters have.
 
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#33
Well, it's confirmed that there will no Echo fighters as DLC, so that's a definitive no. It's either one or the other, personally, I'm for Sub because we already have a bunch of fire-based characters.
It was confirmed that echo fighters don't take up any of the fighter packages.
I hardly think a bonus echo qualifies as the same thing.
 

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#35
What would the music selection for a MK Challenger Pack be like, is the question.

The only music I can think of is the original MK theme, the soundtrack for MKX and a bit of the soundtrack for MK9, but that's pretty much about it. I mean, unless Sakurai and NetherRealm are willing to compose original character themes for the characters, music's a little difficult.
Check MK2 and MK3's soundtracks there's actually some interesting songs there.
 

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#36
I'd rather Sub-Zero get in over Scorpion, with his tagline being, "Sub-Zero breaks the ice!" I'd love to see his Final Smash being a fatality, where he traps the opponents in a block of ice, and then shatters it with one punch. It would be without blood obviously, and if an opponent is over 100%, they die instantly.

The only thing that I think stops a Mortal Kombat character getting in is the fact that MK is no longer sold in Japan. Simply put, if you want to play a recent MK game in Japan, you import. This is because Japan has stricter censorship laws regarding violence, one of which being they cannot show decapitations in video games. On the other hand, it might get the Japanese Smash community interested in the franchise.
 

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#37
I just have a gut feeling that Mortal Kombat will end up in smash. The only obstacle is that many of the games are banned in Japan. However, at this point I don't think anything short of not being a video game character will prevent a character from being in smash. MK is probably the single biggest and most influential video game series not currently in smash. I'm calling it now.
 

UserKev

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#38
I just have a gut feeling that Mortal Kombat will end up in smash. The only obstacle is that many of the games are banned in Japan. However, at this point I don't think anything short of not being a video game character will prevent a character from being in smash. MK is probably the single biggest and most influential video game series not currently in smash. I'm calling it now.
MK discussion is truly the last interesting speculation in Smash.
 

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#39
It does have a proven fanbase in Japan, just y’know, they have to import it due to the ban. Even cameo’d in an anime.
 
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