Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[Malakandra]

Chaco what do you think the general PoE is.

Wam you started out the day on FF, but I don't think I've seen you follow up on anything you mentioned yet. Has your opinion changed?

 

[Wam]

What leads you to believe Mala is new?

I am interested to see your response to Chaco on why you thought I was new, I don't remember mentioning it this game yet. Wam

This from the sign up thread.

I'm very worried lol. I think people think I'm good now but I still have no clue how to play town

On the plus side maybe we can have a try two of our scumteam from Midnight ops!

 

[Wam]

Chaco what do you think the general PoE is.

Wam you started out the day on FF, but I don't think I've seen you follow up on anything you mentioned yet. Has your opinion changed?

I keep going back and forth live. Havent had a chance to review yet.

 

[Malakandra]

This from the sign up thread.

ah, forgot about that lol. Fair enough.

 

[Malakandra]

Also wow how did I predict the scumteam ahead of time!

 

[fontisian]

I also want to know the reasoning behind this post. Because to me this is a naked attempt to pocket Malakandra and serves no other purpose.

The answer is in the post. He was looking for guidance, I instinctively respond to that.

fontisian you STILL didn't answer my #945

And I have one more question; why no attempt to break up my push on Sync today?
Does that mean I have a good push now or did you just give up on trying to steer me altogether?

You didn't react well last time and I'm not as strong on Syn, yes. Note that I waited on breaking up your fight with Chaco until I felt comfortable townreading both of you.

 

[fontisian]

fontisian

Can you explain the progression below

Again, the progression is in the post. I'll add that I think vibe reads on Mala are less likely to be accurate than content based things, and all the reasons to townread him are vibe based.

 

[fontisian]

I think posts like that suggest it can't be Boom + Wam. Boom doesn't seem to care very much which waggon he ends on.
I think if Wam is scum, it's most likely with Sync and fonti. But from the Sabrar kill I just feel like it's WIFOM and Wam is probably town at this point.

I think there's a decent chance Boom felt called out by Sabrar on leaning towards voting Somi or Wam, so he overcompensated in voting Wam and staying there longer than he had to, and that's also why they shot Sabrar.

 

[BoomFrog]

fontisian You missed my question about who you thought was going to be NKed N1. Can you answer it?

And, should I stop liking your posts? I just view it as a way to be like "yep, that makes sense" without clogging up the thread.

 

[fontisian]

fontisian You missed my question about who you thought was going to be NKed N1. Can you answer it?

And, should I stop liking your posts? I just view it as a way to be like "yep, that makes sense" without clogging up the thread.

I didn't really think about it? Maybe me or Syn.

Uh, the post liking kind of freaks me out.

 

[Chaco]

Boom always likes posts. It’s not alignment indicative. Scan through vanilla and midnight you’ll see liked by BoomFrog a lot

 

[BoomFrog]

BoomFrog What’s your scum team thoughts? If you posted it already my b, I’m multi tabbing pages back.

Let's see where we're at:

Town
Pythag
Kary
Chaco
Dark Horse

Probably town but I'm going to make myself crazy about it all game
Synchronicity
Fontisian

Suspicious
Wam
LaserGuy

Scummy
Frozen Flame
Malakandra

I need to look back at D1 to see if I think FF-Mala is possible, but from memory I think Mala's push on FF was strong enough that they aren't buddies.

FrozenFlame and Fonti have been so blatantly coordinated. It's getting close to Too Buddy to Be Buddies but I think scum!Fonti might be the type to go for that and Frozen would defer to Fonti's plans. I'd rather yeet Frozen before Fonti no matter what though, because I kinda agree with Frozen's point that scum!Fonti wouldn't defend town!Frozen so hard, and I doubt town!Frozen would be bamboozled so quickly and so completely.


Mala-wam-Fonti - Team I'm thinking about most toDay and seems plausible. Mala's early push on wam to distance after the EoD1 optics. A start of day push is very unlikely to lead to a yeet and Fonti would know that.

Mala-wam-Laser - I was seriously considering this before now, but in processing to make this post I realize Laser joined the wam wagon quite late and sat on it too calmly for this to be right. Maybe Laser was confident that Mala would be the deciding vote. Still unlikely.
Mala-Laser-Fonti - I don't think scum!Mala would start the day with a hard push on town!wam. That would just look really bad later.

Fonti-FF-Laser - Plausible
Fonti-FF-wam - Plausible
Sync-Wam-Laser - Plausible. Sync's flip flop on wam isn't going to go anywhere early D2, and they have plenty of time to decide back to trusting wam.

Apparently I should be voting Fonti now that I've disproven my wam-laser team. I'm reluctant to since Fonti objectively seems very townie, and town!Fonti is such an asset. And premptively, fontisian , no I am not waiting for Syncro's approval before I move my vote. I just need more time to think about this.

 

[BoomFrog]

Uh, the post liking kind of freaks me out.

Temptation to like post, nigh... overwhelming...

 

[Malakandra]

Temptation to like post, nigh... overwhelming...

forgive me father for I succumbed

 

[Synchronicity]

LaserGuy what's your read list?

 

[BoomFrog]

I think there's a decent chance Boom felt called out by Sabrar on leaning towards voting Somi or Wam, so he overcompensated in voting Wam and staying there longer than he had to, and that's also why they shot Sabrar.

Pssst. I stayed on wam a long time because I had RL obligations. As I said already. XKCDian honor forbids lying about RL interference in a game.

 

[Malakandra]

in class, I see your post boom. Though theres not really anything I can reply too.

 

[Synchronicity]

Mala-wam-Laser - I was seriously considering this before now, but in processing to make this post I realize Laser joined the wam wagon quite late and sat on it too calmly for this to be right. Maybe Laser was confident that Mala would be the deciding vote. Still unlikely.

Considering that Laser bussed Frozen with nothing but "K," I don't get this.

 

[Chaco]

Let's see where we're at:

Town
Pythag
Kary
Chaco
Dark Horse

Probably town but I'm going to make myself crazy about it all game
Synchronicity
Fontisian

Suspicious
Wam
LaserGuy

Scummy
Frozen Flame
Malakandra

I need to look back at D1 to see if I think FF-Mala is possible, but from memory I think Mala's push on FF was strong enough that they aren't buddies.

FrozenFlame and Fonti have been so blatantly coordinated. It's getting close to Too Buddy to Be Buddies but I think scum!Fonti might be the type to go for that and Frozen would defer to Fonti's plans. I'd rather yeet Frozen before Fonti no matter what though, because I kinda agree with Frozen's point that scum!Fonti wouldn't defend town!Frozen so hard, and I doubt town!Frozen would be bamboozled so quickly and so completely.


Mala-wam-Fonti - Team I'm thinking about most toDay and seems plausible. Mala's early push on wam to distance after the EoD1 optics. A start of day push is very unlikely to lead to a yeet and Fonti would know that.

Mala-wam-Laser - I was seriously considering this before now, but in processing to make this post I realize Laser joined the wam wagon quite late and sat on it too calmly for this to be right. Maybe Laser was confident that Mala would be the deciding vote. Still unlikely.
Mala-Laser-Fonti - I don't think scum!Mala would start the day with a hard push on town!wam. That would just look really bad later.

Fonti-FF-Laser - Plausible
Fonti-FF-wam - Plausible
Sync-Wam-Laser - Plausible. Sync's flip flop on wam isn't going to go anywhere early D2, and they have plenty of time to decide back to trusting wam.

Apparently I should be voting Fonti now that I've disproven my wam-laser team. I'm reluctant to since Fonti objectively seems very townie, and town!Fonti is such an asset. And premptively, fontisian , no I am not waiting for Syncro's approval before I move my vote. I just need more time to think about this.

This is the biggest difference I’ve seen yet in PoE. Generally speaking it seems Laser, Mala, Synch, yourself, and Wam at the bottom.

I’ve gotta look back and see if your pairings are possible. I don’t think FF and Wam can be paired, but I might be wrong, from both ends.

I agree that Fonti/FF is to blatant.

Laser and Wam would be to blatant as well, imo.

I’m not getting scummy vibes off of Fonti, seems very similar to midnight play. What you you seeing I’m not?

Why is Pythag top town?

 

[Chaco]

I’m really bothered by the fact you didn’t mention anything on Synch and Laser, Boom. Lasers given plenty of back and forth movement there, and you list them as a potential, but only commentate on Sync’s flip flop of Wam.

 

[Chaco]

As much as you love to figure out Xivii too, you don’t mention anything on them. That’s really not feeling right to me.

 

[Chaco]

Hear me out here: Boom, Synch, Laser scumteam. Sabrar naturally dies because he’s obv town and most familiar with all of them. He 100% becomes the play because he can figure them out fastest.

 

[Chaco]

Synchs been hedging Kary for a ML all game as well. Xivii knows his best approach is to pocket me because I drive myself nuts figuring him out anyways, and they rip Laser wide open for distance and pushing a case that’s easily torn apart on me all while staying consistent within his meta.

Boom is the one that’s off the wagon entirely and doesn’t hardly get involved.

Which would fit my previous assumption of the push on me: One defending, one attacking, (and a third that’s uninvolved basically)

 

[Synchronicity]

Chaco you need a townier avatar man.

 

[fontisian]

Temptation to like post, nigh... overwhelming...

Am I a joke to you?

Boom, talk to me about Dark Horse.

 

[BoomFrog]

Considering that Laser bussed Frozen with nothing but "K," I don't get this.

A bit of a different situation since LaserGuy had committed to sheeping you and wasn't able to do much EoD because of RL. I'll have to look back to see if Sabrar was pressuring him but I feel like Laser had options. Maybe he thought wam was a lost cause. I'll think about it.

I’m not getting scummy vibes off of Fonti, seems very similar to midnight play. What you you seeing I’m not?

Yeah, exactly, that's why I'm not pushing them. I get zero scummy vibes from them. But they haven't really pushed others except for Somi at the end so they fit in lots of scum teams.

Why is Pythag top town

Cause.

Alright fine, mostly because of the "I liked Sync's mysterious post" thing. It gave me a hugely townie vibe. And his posts are all just really pure.

I’m really bothered by the fact you didn’t mention anything on Synch and Laser, Boom. Lasers given plenty of back and forth movement there, and you list them as a potential, but only commentate on Sync’s flip flop of Wam.

As far as I recall, Laser's done nothing of significance except push you and vote wam. Which is an excellent smoke screen for scum to hide in a tunnel. He fits in almost any scum team without you or wam in it. And apparently the wam thing is arguable.

As much as you love to figure out Xivii too, you don’t mention anything on them. That’s really not feeling right to me.

Syncro has acted exactly as I expected since pregame. Alright, expect I expected them to keep up the mysterious posting longer, but they feel behind so it's understandable. I lost the game due to obsessing too much over Xivii in vanilla. I'm going to learn from that mistake.

 

[LaserGuy]

Laser's argument that they wouldn't write notes as scum is also just bull****. It's not that hard to fake notes from a town perspective as scum, and it's actually pretty damn useful to do so. How do I know? Here are my notes from the beginning of Sumting Sumting Mafia:

Given the expressed time constraints of the players in question, I don't think that making a huge fake notes list is very practical. It's the worst kind of busywork because it will, for the most part, not even make it into the thread. If they are scum, I would imagine they probably did the minimum needed to make this look like a believable townslip and not much more.

But point taken, some people do have very different approaches to this (though, I think the situation is also different for a replacement where there is more of a need to be caught up and show that you have done so... replacements often produce one or more summary posts showing your work, where such notes would make a lot of sense).

Xivii and Bessie aren't in this game, there is only synchronicity.

I don't really agree with this approach to the slot, despite their comments to the contrary. This is Xivii and bessie working together, and I think that treating them as such is more productive than pretending this is a completely different person. If I can get a good read on the bessie head, then I'll take that even if I find Xivii harder to read.

Sure, thats what you see purpose in. But again, them posting the notes caused you to switch your vote off them and trust them. So you should be able to see how putting in the efforts to make notes can sway town opinion.

I agree. I think it's somewhat more likely that these are just Town notes, but I can't rule out that this is manufactured to appear that way.

Yes I know there are some strong scum players pretending to be town well. I just think that the Somi counterwagon to Wam makes very little sense if Wam is town, so there would have been something strange going on behind the scenes I'm not able to see.

Can you explain why the wagon dynamics require wam to be scum?

did we ever actually get an answer to this?

Yes, I addressed it right after Sabrar made this comment.

late aggro aimed at laser. LG spooked and cosigns an NK on sab hearing **** like this maybe?

Sabrar and I have very different playstyles and often (frequently) get into conflict regardless of our respective alignments. This is very half-hearted compared to usual levels of antagonism between Sabrar and I. Wine, but no, if I were scum, I would not be concerned about this. Doesn't mean I wouldn't consider shooting Sabrar anyway, but that would depend on a lot of other factors.

Yeah, I think Laser clearing them for this is terrible, but it makes me want to kill Laser more than it makes me want to kill Syn.

As I've alluded to above, my reasoning was mostly interested in the tone and the process behind the notes... not specifically "this content looks townie", but rather "I don't see them bothering to do this as scum".

 

[Synchronicity]

Yes. This is true and why I'm not as solid on Boom. However, this to me in the only scenario in which the boom vote switch is sus, which makes it totally predicated on Wam flip. Which is another reason he is near top of my do not yeet, because if we yeet Wam and for some reason he flips town, I'm more sure on it not being boom.

Oof. I just realized something about this. Malakandra's case on me was predicated on Wam being scum, so his perception that Boom is town for hammering Somi doesn't make sense.

 

[LaserGuy]

pg29 (last one was 28 btw)

doesn't scum!boom have real motive to just guarantee the misyeet knowing somi is town and if wam is scum? forcing the somi misyeet provides WAY less info to town then being forced to bus wam D1 and giving us a papertrail to parse

I agree with this. Boom waited way too long and seemed way too reluctant to switch for him to be buddies with wam here. The only way I see this pairing working is if they are also both scum with Malakandra.

ultimately I don't think fonti would feel very pressured by me attacking her slot, her only experience playing against me was flashyeeting me at EoD quick and easy essentially just because she said to. this is really the backbone of my reluctance to believe im in scum!fonti's pocket, why would she pick my slot over appealing to essentially any other slot that she would probably feel more threatened by as scum? imo I'm a top candidate for misyeet push to scum!fonti

fonti's slot was in pretty bad shape when she replaced in. I could certainly imagine her priority being trying to defuse the pressure on her slot rather than aggressively pushing against one of her main detractors. fonti is a very strong scum player and I don't think her pocketing you is at all outside her range. I think that's just how she operates. She basically pocketed the entire Town in Sumting Sumting and led Town from misyeet to misyeet without ever attracting any attention (there were outside circumstances that led to her slot being read favorably, but fonti sold it extremely well). I don't actually have a solid enough read on her to be able to say that this is what happened in this game, but I think you are grossly underestimating her.

How is it incorrect?

Maybe this was answered already, but bessie actually is a pretty aggressive player when she's able to keep up with the thread. She often tunnels hard and is very difficult to shake once she's convinced of a scumread.

Where is mala in your reads currently?

Also are you and Frozen claiming masons (please don't hurt me left brain).

Why did you ask this?

Do note the only person that Laser has truthfully pushed this game has been me. 3 man scum team most likely so why are you hellbent on me? When there would be two others if his hypothesis was correct? Showing a complete lack of game solve.

I had scum as you, one of Sync/Boom, and fonti (with an outside chance of wam) and a full explanation of how I arrived at that conclusion back when I made my case on you in #548. I'm guessing you never actually read that post as I've mentioned it several times in various contexts and you seem completely oblivious to its content.

 

[Wam]

I have a slighty convoluted read on sync that has been bouncing round my head.

Based on the post below and the early day 2 content I think a reasonable assumption is that Bessie had a town meta read on me.

I was reading Wam's scum game in Stellaris before I went to bed, and his scum play is much more polished than this I think. He can make his posts pretty if he wants to and his logic is much more self-generated and built in a way as to move the game in a direction he wants.

Town wam always plays in this all-over-the-place idrc I'm not scum and it's day 1 manner.

Now unless things have changed in the year I havent played bessie committed hard to her meta reads.

So if we then look at the development on me it's a very quick switch early day 2 to pushing my lynch. This reads to me like xivii posts.

I have never played a hydra but if the slot is town and one half has a solid town meta read and then other half starts doubting that they pause and message then other half. If the slot is scum they are more likely to see the opening and go for it.

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuy I read it, but you’ve never pushed them. You’ve talked about stuff here and there, but for someone who puts out cases I haven’t seen anything sans on me. You talked about synchronicity loosely enough for me to just see it as a scum mate instead of an actual pursuit. Fonti you’ve basically only said its within her range, and that doesn’t mean you’re pushing them as scum. I wanna see some hard stances because right now the only one you’ve taken is on me.

 

[Chaco]

Synchronicity Xivii do you think that lasers play is matching up to his play in Midnight? Long posts basically not saying much?

 

[Synchronicity]

I'll let you know once I see his current read list.

 

[LaserGuy]

I think it could be Boom + Mala + {Wam/Chaco/Laser}

That scum pairing makes zero sense Synchronicity and is completely outside generally PoE. Support how that makes sense, please.

Can you explain why you feel this is so different from the team you suggested on pg 29 below?

Potential scum team:
Synchronicity, Laser, Mala/Boom

 

[Malakandra]

Oof. I just realized something about this. Malakandra's case on me was predicated on Wam being scum, so his perception that Boom is town for hammering Somi doesn't make sense.

My reserve in Boom is he could have seen my starting to lean towards Wam and switched over, but I'm focusing more on the people who were more obvious in that for now.

Nope, I've already talked about this to great extent. You really are just throwing things at me hoping they stick huh?

I don't really agree with this approach to the slot, despite their comments to the contrary. This is Xivii and bessie working together, and I think that treating them as such is more productive than pretending this is a completely different person. If I can get a good read on the bessie head, then I'll take that even if I find Xivii harder to read.

I'm just taking the stance they are taking about themselves.

It's not a 'who,' it's an 'it.' And it is the right side of my brain which intuits and synthesizes, as opposed to my left side which is strictly logical and analytical.

Right brain. I've already made it clear that I have no intention on distinguishing between bessie and Xivii.

Can you explain why the wagon dynamics require wam to be scum?

Not require, but hightly suggest. I did it better in my day 1 post I feel. But basically, Conf town Sabrar notes that alot of people have Wam as scum, and not voting him. So he votes and tells people to put their votes where their mouth is. Then all of a sudden a Somi vote wagon pops up and goes off to counter it and end up winning. That timing is highly suspicious.

 

[Chaco]

Can you explain why you feel this is so different from the team you suggested on pg 29 below?

Boom and Mala can be interchangeable but don’t make sense together imo.

 

[Chaco]

Look at EoD before final votes and tell me Mala makes sense as scum: easy lynches there and Mala wants FF and me back to being wagoned and it seems genuine.

Fontis vote on Somi is better than Synchs, as well as Synch goes to say beginning of day toDay when they retracted he should have pulled off. Fonti’s much more blunt and says I would’ve lynched em anyways.

Synch and Laser are the most likely partners right now. We can work from there. Boom I’m not sold in, but Mala didn’t fit.

Synch over Laser, Laser after Synch.

 

[Chaco]

If

Let's see where we're at:

Town
Pythag
Kary
Chaco
Dark Horse

Probably town but I'm going to make myself crazy about it all game
Synchronicity
Fontisian

Suspicious
Wam
LaserGuy

Scummy
Frozen Flame
Malakandra

I need to look back at D1 to see if I think FF-Mala is possible, but from memory I think Mala's push on FF was strong enough that they aren't buddies.

FrozenFlame and Fonti have been so blatantly coordinated. It's getting close to Too Buddy to Be Buddies but I think scum!Fonti might be the type to go for that and Frozen would defer to Fonti's plans. I'd rather yeet Frozen before Fonti no matter what though, because I kinda agree with Frozen's point that scum!Fonti wouldn't defend town!Frozen so hard, and I doubt town!Frozen would be bamboozled so quickly and so completely.


Mala-wam-Fonti - Team I'm thinking about most toDay and seems plausible. Mala's early push on wam to distance after the EoD1 optics. A start of day push is very unlikely to lead to a yeet and Fonti would know that.

Mala-wam-Laser - I was seriously considering this before now, but in processing to make this post I realize Laser joined the wam wagon quite late and sat on it too calmly for this to be right. Maybe Laser was confident that Mala would be the deciding vote. Still unlikely.
Mala-Laser-Fonti - I don't think scum!Mala would start the day with a hard push on town!wam. That would just look really bad later.

Fonti-FF-Laser - Plausible
Fonti-FF-wam - Plausible
Sync-Wam-Laser - Plausible. Sync's flip flop on wam isn't going to go anywhere early D2, and they have plenty of time to decide back to trusting wam.

Apparently I should be voting Fonti now that I've disproven my wam-laser team. I'm reluctant to since Fonti objectively seems very townie, and town!Fonti is such an asset. And premptively, fontisian , no I am not waiting for Syncro's approval before I move my vote. I just need more time to think about this.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame talk to me about this post. What’s your thoughts here on the reads list and the potential teams beneath

 

[fontisian]

Nope, I've already talked about this to great extent. You really are just throwing things at me hoping they stick huh?



I'm just taking the stance they are taking about themselves.




Not require, but hightly suggest. I did it better in my day 1 post I feel. But basically, Conf town Sabrar notes that alot of people have Wam as scum, and not voting him. So he votes and tells people to put their votes where their mouth is. Then all of a sudden a Somi vote wagon pops up and goes off to counter it and end up winning. That timing is highly suspicious.

It's only suspicious if Wam is scum, and his last post was pretty damn towny.

 

[Malakandra]

I'm just taking the stance they are taking about themselves.

Totally missed your despite their comments to the contrary part, sorry Laser. I really need to focus on one thing at a time. I was more making a joke about that, but I've carried it on long enough, and didn't make it obvious. I'm viewing them as separate people that have come together, similar to how I think you are viewing them.