Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I feel like Sabrar is doing more/I agree more with the direction he's taking. He took me seriously when I talked about tvt fighting. While you both defended Chaco, he stuck his neck out more. He pushed on Laser. He's calling Boom out right now for not talking about Wam. With you, you've defended Chaco, and shaded me and Frozen a bunch?

If somi is a wolf, I'm not even sure you look better than him. Sure, you've had somi in your scumteams and you're hoping on now, but the wagon is already taking off without you. And while Sabrar could be scum trying to stop it, iirc, he was very willing to bus when push came to shove in Sumting Mafia.

Tbf, I desperately need to go over both of your isos again, but I don't have the time.

I guess I can agree with you about sabrar being more active than me, he's one of my top town reads for a reason, but I feel like too much of your scumread is based on the fact that you have ideas about how I should play even though you've never seen me play before. Just because I haven't been splattering my thoughts across the thread doesn't mean that gears haven't been turning

And I don't really care that the somi wagon took off without me because I was far more concerned with pushing frozen until like 10 minutes ago

 

[LaserGuy]

Did LaserGuy never explain his revote of Chaco? I feel like the Chaco wagon sucks and probably had scum on it.

I posted a giant case last night. Page 16ish.

 

[somitomi]

somitomi I'm not locked in here. You talking about your progressions on Frozen and Laser would be very helpful.

Also, maybe talk about your read on me? You have me as one of your top town, and that just doesn't fit with you not knowing about Frozen townreading me. His read should have been something that factored both into your read on me and your read on him, but it clearly hasn't.

Ah, hell.
I've been sitting here for the last 30 minutes trying to collect my thoughts and came up fairly dry. Uuugh. Whatever, this is all I got:
LaserGuy's case on Chaco was kind of hogwash, which I find unusual for Laser, he's usually more thorough in my recollection. I've seen town!Laser being super-confident in his case and it turning out completely wrong.
Frozen

I'm sorry, but you used this same reasoning to scumread Xivii and BoomFrog in Completely Vanilla. I don't buy it. Explain why LaserGuy is scummy.

Well I'm sorry, I thought the goal as mafia was to imitate how I'd play as town to the best of my ability.
I kinda knew this was coming.

 

[Synchronicity]

Responses to stuff from page 16. Spoiled because it's not important and I don't want to add a big post to the thread right now.

Spoiler

Kary
Already getting ahead of yourself. Frozen and Chaco were in the same pile because they both seemed to be moving the game forward, doing things, being pro-town, but I hadn't seen anything that confidently put them into the town pile. They were mechanically townie but didn't feel town.

No, you specifically said they were in the town pile (bolded below) and implied that you simply had reservations from the quoted posts:

I have Chaco and Frozen in the same pile so I can't really vibe with your list lmao

Also Pythag just seems completely average Pythag, and therefore null. I have him in the same pile as somi and Wam

Started in the town pile now we're having some reservations.

These both rubbed me the wrong ways.

Let me live in my illusion that I do. Lol.

oh **** maybe you're just outplaying me by tone shifting just like I did from midnight ops to vanilla mafia

I would explain more but I gotta go right now.

The reason I pinged that post was because Chaco's reaction to being challenged about his read his ability to read Boom was to defer and laugh. He was exactly as you say, giving in. That felt like scum quickly giving up on an idea that wasn't popular.

Ok but that's not scummy at all. If everyone in there mother who has experience with Boom is telling you that you're wrong about being able to read him. That's a natural reaction.

I thought Chaco was townreading Boom because he was treating Boom like he was town, or talking to him in a ways that implied he was town. To me the epitome of this comes in #134 where Chaco seems to be more justifying Boom's "correct" read on him than having any doubts about Boom's intentions.

I agree with this, but it's not relevant to the point in time that Chaco made the "let me live in my illusion" post.

Chaco started doing the points system for no reason. The fact that you admit he could have manipulated the points, but think that he didn't, proves my argument. He can just as easily be manipulating the points to go away from his conclusion, so that he comes across as more townie; having doubts, etc.

No, not with he went about it. It was too off-the-cuff.

It's also very telling that you think me changing my read over time about Chaco/Frozen is inherently scummy, but when Chaco says one thing but draws a different conclusion, you think that makes him super townie.

They are different. His was in the same post he was doing his analysis, so unlikely a mistake. Yours came off as a misplace in your progression over time.

You will openly admit to being behind and struggling to keep up, but if I miss a piece of context then I'm scummy?

Yes, I'm behind because I'm reading deeply. That being said, it's fair if we simply have different approaches to this.

Everything else you've addressed in this post is fair. I don't need any responses to these. On the whole you've dismantled my case.

Synchronicity at what point did Chaco first ping you as town, and why? Please quote a specific post.

I'll come back to this later. Trying to catch up and deadline looming.


Laser

Synchronicity I'm disappointed you stopped splitting your analysis when I commented on it.

It was a smart hypothesis but premature conclusion. We were never split. We always intended to mix metaphors with normal speak and transition into primarily normal. It was just coincidence that left brain was the one that began normal speaking first.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Synchronicity]

I do want an answer to this though:

Mala

Synchronicity

That case really isn't the best work I've ever seen, kinda disappointing ngl. You seem to have some inaccuracies, which strikes me as odd for what I expected of this slot. I'm not sure if its just you two struggling to come together, or if its scum motivated at this point. But yes I also count the posts in between when Kary said Chaco and Frozen were in the same boat, and when he made the read list. There's definitely a good amount of Frozen posts that could be seen as alignment content in between those. I agree that them being on nearly opposite sides of the spectrum after that is a bit odd.

Most of the topping stuff is ok, but its also not enough to sell me on the case as a whole. I'd like to hear your explanation for why you had the number of Frozen posts completely wrong, its very confusing to me because I don't think getting things wrong in a case is something you would do as any alignment.

Obviously I was counting in between the time Kary actually made the case and his read list.. What are these other "inaccuracies" you speak of?

Also Synchronicity is there any point to me waiting for you to get to the rest of my questions about what some things in your earlier big post meant?

There is not, but I'll invite you to the hydra chat post-game. Why is this important to you?

 

[fontisian]

Yo, what if Somi and Mala both said "inaccuracies" about Syn's case because they were talking about it in scumchat?

 

[Synchronicity]

also inaccuracies

What are the other "inaccuracies"?

 

[Synchronicity]

Yo, what if Somi and Mala both said "inaccuracies" about Syn's case because they were talking about it in scumchat?

oh hello :3

 

[Sabrar]

I'd also be down for a spicy LG flash yeet if people I think are townie agree with me.

I'm always happy to yeet Laser but I don't think it would be the best idea right now.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

**** it

Vote: Somi

Could also swing fonti now. Fonti could be scum trying to egg on a town!FF. My gut says that two scumbuds wouldn't be too blatant like that

please go read fonti eviscerating me D1 in midnight ops and tell me again with a straight face that fonti tries to pocket me in any universe

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

There is ****ing resistance on wam. There is none on somi. Where is your usual mantra?

I really don't want to be refreshing this game for the next hour and a half.

I think Wam is a much better elim than somi, and Chaco might be better than somi as well. If somi flips up green I feel like we learn nothing.

My spicy picks would be fonti or synchro at this point, but I'd rather reach a consensus I can get behind than shoot myself in the foot trying to be clever.

Vote: Wam

F it. I gtg and am not sure I'll be here for deadline. I trust Sabrar slightly more the Fonti.

Vote Wam

I really don't like the look of the somi wagon at all. Wam is not my first choice but I can live with it.

Vote wam

oh the irony

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Sabrar what's your take on all this resistance melting away last minute?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

please go read fonti eviscerating me D1 in midnight ops and tell me again with a straight face that fonti tries to pocket me in any universe

I don't see how these are mutually exclusive. Especially when it seems like you're buying it now.

 

[Synchronicity]

Mala, somi, and Laser are all looking bad right now.

 

[Sabrar]

Are you going to defend Somi, Sabrar ?

Sorry, missed this among the flurry of posts. I'm not going to defend anyone to the point of actually campaigning for it. I have my own views which may or may not be right, I'm not going to force them on anyone.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 1.12

Somitomi(5): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse
Wam (5): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary, BoomFrog, LaserGuy
Chaco (2): Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (1): Malakandra,

Deadline is in a little under 70 minutes from this post. With 13 alive, it takes seven to reach majority.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I don't see how these are mutually exclusive. Especially when it seems like you're buying it now.

I'm obviously being hyperbolic but seriously, you think FONTI of all the slots in this game would try to pocket me? Why? She had me dead to rights in midnight ops. There's no ****ing way fonti is afraid of town!me if she's scum because she already knows she can convince people to yeet me if she wants. I pose no threat to scum!fonti. In fact, scum!fonti probably thinks I'm a free ****in misyeet. Also I'm pretty sure fonti just doesn't like me as a player generally and she's entitled to that opinion, I get it, my playstyle isn't for everyone, but yeah there's no real possibility in my mind that scum!Fonti puts even an iota of effort into pocketing me when her time is probably much better spent in such a scenario pocketing XKCD power players

obviously I could be getting ****ing snowed here but like seriously it doesnt make any sense that scum!Fonti would literally enter the game replacing gorf, a slot I was going after at the time, and immediately goes to saying I look townier in this game and has been sticking her neck out for me ever since

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

she's lynched me with like zero ****ing effort in midnight ops, guarantee you atleast half this playerlist would turbo yeet me on a moments notice if fonti claimed she soul read me as scum again, why not take that free misyeet as scum?

 

[fontisian]

Chaco
Kary
Frozen Flame
Pythag
Synchronicity (Xivii and Bessie Hydra)

Sabrar

BoomFrog
Malakandra
Dark Horse

Wam
LaserGuy

Somitomi

There has been a lack of town leadership in this game, which means someone who should be leading isn't town. If I die, do not let Laser, Dark Horse, Boom and Sabrar off the hook. Make them work for this.

If we kill Wam, and he flips scum, clear Sabrar. If Somi flips scum, do /not/ clear Dark Horse.

I feel strongly that the five greens are town, and that if you do not yeet them this game we will win. Remember to work with each other and listen to each other.

 

[fontisian]

And no, Syn, I haven't looked at the other game, I'm sorry. I'm rolling with the feels on Frozen, and the feels are that they aren't being manipulative.

 

[Malakandra]

Obviously I was counting in between the time Kary actually made the case and his read list.. What are these other "inaccuracies" you speak of?

Why would you count between then though? That makes no sense. The other one was about Kary not digging into context. I recall seeing a bit of that, and seeing frustration at not getting responses, yet you make it seem like there was none of that at all.

There is not, but I'll invite you to the hydra chat post-game. Why is this important to you?

Just seeing how much your word matters to you. You asked me what I wanted clarification on, I received one of them, the others would help me understand continuity in reads coming from you, and know if you actually intend to help people understand what you were trying to say.

Yo, what if Somi and Mala both said "inaccuracies" about Syn's case because they were talking about it in scumchat?

This is also the reason I said Mindmeld to Somi's other post. you got us.

I'm ok with a somi or Wam yeet at this point? Prefer Wam over Somi if I had too. I really liked Chaco and FF wagons, and really dislike this big shift away from both of those. I feel like its scum lead somewhere, but don't really have the time to get into it right now.

 

[fontisian]

Frozen, I want to clarify, I don't dislike you personally. We're cool.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar what's your take on all this resistance melting away last minute?

No take because I specifically called it out which could influence people and it's not last minute yet.

 

[Malakandra]

obviously I could be getting ****ing snowed here but like seriously it doesnt make any sense that scum!Fonti would literally enter the game replacing gorf, a slot I was going after at the time, and immediately goes to saying I look townier in this game and has been sticking her neck out for me ever since

Just saying that this it totally something I could see Fonti doing. They pretended to be a neap for a whole game.

 

[Sabrar]

There has been a lack of town leadership in this game, which means someone who should be leading isn't town.

Disagree with that, not everyone leads like Ranmaru.

But fonti is town for sure.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ngl frozen I feel like you're letting fonti's play in midnight ops affect your view on him way too much.

For one I was actually scumreading you from the midnight ops spec chat (you can check the receipts if you'd like) before fonti's case. I think fonti's case on you that game was less some master manipulation and more just you not playing your best scum game and getting caught for it.

This is a different game with a different playerlist, I don't think think it's a stretch that fonti could be playing it differently

 

[Malakandra]

**** am I gonna be the deciding vote? Wam and Somi will just self prez. oh god

 

[fontisian]

Just saying that this it totally something I could see Fonti doing. They pretended to be a neap for a whole game.

I didn't actually claim Neap, I replaced in and was locked into the claim already.

Uh, I don't know if Frozen's argument is true? I might just let him die as scum, sure. It depends on what my team needs. I think Frozen buys his argument, and except for the personal malice part, I don't know that it's /wrong/.

 

[fontisian]

**** am I gonna be the deciding vote? Wam and Somi will just self prez. oh god

Kind of towny from Mala.

If I die, do /not/ take my Mala reads seriously.

 

[Sabrar]

My notes say that Malak has townie tone, Gorf/fonti is town and if Dark Horse is scum then Gorf must be scum which together with the previous must mean that Dark Horse is town as well.

 

[Malakandra]

I didn't actually claim Neap, I replaced in and was locked into the claim already.

Uh, I don't know if Frozen's argument is true? I might just let him die as scum, sure. It depends on what my team needs. I think Frozen buys his argument, and except for the personal malice part, I don't know that it's /wrong/.

fair enough.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

There has been a lack of town leadership in this game, which means someone who should be leading isn't town.

I disagree with this notion. We were all in agreement that the playerlist for this game was very good, and town leaders are usually most prominent in games with uneven skill levels.

 

[BoomFrog]

Vote Count 1.12

Somitomi(5): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse
Wam (5): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary, BoomFrog, LaserGuy
Chaco (2): Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (1): Malakandra,

Deadline is in a little under 70 minutes from this post. With 13 alive, it takes seven to reach majority.

First, I want to thank everyone for actually participating. It's amazing to have a D1 where everyone seriously votes and plays hard.

Second, I'm not very excited about either of these yeets. This is just a short list of the two players who have the most difficulty keeping up with the game

 

[Synchronicity]

I'm obviously being hyperbolic but seriously, you think FONTI of all the slots in this game would try to pocket me? Why? She had me dead to rights in midnight ops. There's no ****ing way fonti is afraid of town!me if she's scum because she already knows she can convince people to yeet me if she wants. I pose no threat to scum!fonti. In fact, scum!fonti probably thinks I'm a free ****in misyeet. Also I'm pretty sure fonti just doesn't like me as a player generally and she's entitled to that opinion, I get it, my playstyle isn't for everyone, but yeah there's no real possibility in my mind that scum!Fonti puts even an iota of effort into pocketing me when her time is probably much better spent in such a scenario pocketing XKCD power players

This doesn't make any sense. There's no reason why scum!Fonti wouldn't town read you if you're town, when town!Fonti scum read you when you were scum. It maintains consistency on her part. If she misyeeted you, people would be looking at her for getting it wrong when she got it so right before. This is obvious.

is comment re: synchro a joke or did you legitimately not know synchro is a bessie/xivii hydra?

You keep asking filler questions like these. Like Boom's doublevote. That's the point I was making about it before. I don't see how anyone could have really thought this wasn't a joke.

Why would you count between then though? That makes no sense. The other one was about Kary not digging into context. I recall seeing a bit of that, and seeing frustration at not getting responses, yet you make it seem like there was none of that at all.

Huh? Can you elaborate? Where was I inaccurate about him not digging into context. And also what do you mean by the underlined?

Just seeing how much your word matters to you. You asked me what I wanted clarification on, I received one of them, the others would help me understand continuity in reads coming from you, and know if you actually intend to help people understand what you were trying to say.

I don't recall ever promising clarification, only asking you what you wanted clarified. Regardless, I don't see how this can possibly be important to you at this point in the game. But sure, if I catch up with enough time before the deadline I'll go back to them.

 

[Sabrar]

Second, I'm not very excited about either of these yeets. This is just a short list of the two players who have the most difficulty keeping up with the game

Who would you be excited about? (besides LG)

 

[Malakandra]

I don't recall ever promising clarification, only asking you what you wanted clarified. Regardless, I don't see how this can possibly be important to you at this point in the game. But sure, if I catch up with enough time before the deadline I'll go back to them.

theres a reason I'm not asking about them now. But at that point the game was quiet, and you had just been on.

 

[Synchronicity]

I was reading Wam's scum game in Stellaris before I went to bed, and his scum play is much more polished than this I think. He can make his posts pretty if he wants to and his logic is much more self-generated and built in a way as to move the game in a direction he wants.

Town wam always plays in this all-over-the-place idrc I'm not scum and it's day 1 manner.

 

[Wam]

unvote
vote somi
self defence L-1

 

[Chaco]

Yes but what was done with that time is my issue, Boom. Somi replied to the same stuff only this entire day phase until now. And still never substantiated reads. Like everyone pushing me was bottom of their list. How are you gonna agree with a push but not anyone driving it? It’s scummy.

 

[Chaco]

Also I am driving home now it’ll take me 30 minutes to get home