Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[Malakandra]

It's only suspicious if Wam is scum, and his last post was pretty damn towny.

Well yes sure, but I think Occam's Razor points to Wam being scum from the drastic shift away after his yeet was brought up.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 2.6

Synchronicity(4): Kary, Chaco, Wam, Malakandra
Malakandra (3): Boom Frog, Fontisian, Synchronicity
Wam (1): Dark Horse
Boomfrog (1): FrozenFlame

Not voting (2): Pythag, Laserguy
Day 2 Ends on Thursday the 17th at 5 PM CST. End of Day Countdown With 11 Alive, it takes 6 votes to eliminate

 

[Wam]

Well yes sure, but I think Occam's Razor points to Wam being scum from the drastic shift away after his yeet was brought up.

What about the resistance sync is getting today?

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy If Wam is scum here, what partners make sense with him?

I think there's really only a couple possibilities that are plausible teams for scum!Wam. One is exactly Mala/Boom/wam with lots of scum theatre at the end. The other is that Boom and Mala are both Town and the scum team is made up of some combination of the remaining members of the somi wagon.
Somitomi(7): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse, Wam, Boomfrog

I don't see Sync and wam ever being buddies. Sync had a solid meta read on Wam at EoD and I can't them bussing on a wishy-washy reason like "I didn't like his read on somi". Both players do not like to bus so I don't really expect to see it from this slot. I'd say probably it would be Chaco/fonti/Wam if anything, but that's mostly because I think Frozen and DH are both Town, not necessarily based on interactions. I think Wam is probably Town though so this is probably a moot point.

LaserGuy what's your read list?

I'll will do this in the evening. Off the top of my head, I have Town on Kary, Dark Horse, Frozen, Pythag, Wam. Uncertain about Mala, Sync, fonti but I'd probably sort them in that order based on my current impressions. Liking Boom for scum. Chaco I think is scum, but his recent play has made me doubt enough that I'm going to review him in full.

LaserGuy I read it, but you’ve never pushed them. You’ve talked about stuff here and there, but for someone who puts out cases I haven’t seen anything sans on me. You talked about synchronicity loosely enough for me to just see it as a scum mate instead of an actual pursuit. Fonti you’ve basically only said its within her range, and that doesn’t mean you’re pushing them as scum. I wanna see some hard stances because right now the only one you’ve taken is on me.

Making cases against multiple people is not productive. But yes, I will post a full reads list later today.

 

[Synchronicity]

0 obviously. It was just a sassy way of saying "why did you choose to phrase things that way?" Usually, when you scum read someone, you still consider they could be town and if you are going to interact with them directly usually ideally you frame it in a way that will get a cooperative response so you can get more info.

Synchronicity The "are you asking Frozen" question wasn't really about that, it was me asking you want you were trying to do, because it looked like you were doing something nonsensical. Boom doesn't seem to have gotten that either, but is pretending he understood what I was saying or something by calling it a reasonable follow up question?

I'm having a hard time grasping what each of you are saying here.

BoomFrog are you saying that you interpreted my post as trying to convince my scumread of other reads, but since I included him as scum I wasn't approaching it in the best way? This seems rather convoluted.

fontisian are you saying that you were asking if I was trying to convince my scumread that he was scum? Because that's what my interpretation was, but you're saying that's not correct?

I like kary’s reasoning for the synchro push, I agree that it’s weird that Synchro is trying to downplay their role in launching the somi wagon.

Could you outline the steps in the case, from point A to point B, that lead to the inference that Synchro is potentially scum. Basically I'd like to understand what you believe to be the scum!motivation behind "not voting Frozen" is.

I'm going to re read it tonight but to me the biggest issue with sync notes is that I feel they have been scrambling to explain what chaco found.

Why haven't you responded to this? Can you walk me through the steps of what it is you believe Chaco found, how it leads to scum synchro, and why the alternative explanation that I've provided is not more sensible.

That scum pairing makes zero sense Synchronicity and is completely outside generally PoE. Support how that makes sense, please.

Cool story bro:

I think it could be Boom + Mala + {Wam/Chaco/Laser}

Potential scum team:
Synchronicity, Laser, Mala/Boom

"Completely outside the PoE" my ass.

I feel like they would make more effort to avoid voting one another if it was SvS...

I think if Wam is scum, it's most likely with Sync

???

Different boards, different styles, no reason to announce to scum "this guy is my hard town read, so you're going to have to shoot him because I'll never yeet him." I followed Sabrar when it mattered at EoD

Different players actually. Wam said the same thing to me. I don't get it;.

Morning Mafia is the best way to wake up lol. I've been waking up and immediately reading the thread while eating breakfast for the last few game days. Actually helps my mind get into gear faster.

It helps me get up too: "Chaco said WHAT!?...OH NO HE DI-INT dafjkhadfjhadkflae;ial"

sorry this is confusing, what I'm trying to say is how much of this is based on me? I know part of your laser is I havent interacted with him, is boom similar because of my read of him?

No, it was individual.

Why would I be spearheading Mala right now in this scenario?

You seem to be under the impression that you were going to end up as one of the end of day wagons. Mala was under the impression that Wam should be yeeted. If you guys thought it was highly likely you or wam would be yeeted today, it makes sense for you all to hard distance each other. That being said, I'm not necessarily sold on this.

I have no idea it was on xkcd. Bessie? Synchronicity

You were scum in Werewolf on Wall Street and B99, both of which are in the archive. Did you play in any games after Texas Hold'em?

but the point of the operation was to test whether you had the notes readily available and see if your processing was consistent. While I wouldn't normally ask for someone's private notes, you voluntarily entered them into evidence.

I already explained this:

Playing post notes from page X is against the spirit, not posting notes themselves.

Why did you ask this?

Because of the 0% thing, how they've been playing around each other, the timing of their posts last night, and the alignment of their reads.

 

[Malakandra]

What about the resistance sync is getting today?

Its not the same thing. That was at EoD with a huge shift pretty darn close to last second. Its like middle of the day here with stuff just developing. I'm actually surprised the Synch wagon was a viable wagon today, I thought they'd defend themself alot better than they have.

The main resistance is the counterwagon on me, and the few others I guess. I can't really draw a lot of conclusions till closer to the yeet. I think would know that its a while before EoD, any shift can happen and theres no real reason to get super defensive right now.

 

[fontisian]

Well yes sure, but I think Occam's Razor points to Wam being scum from the drastic shift away after his yeet was brought up.

You're still just going in circles. Why is that the simplest explanation? Why can't it just be town yeeting town or scum trying to make town look suspiciiua.

 

[Chaco]

I laughed at that so hard Synchronicity

 

[fontisian]

Synchronicity Right, sorry, sometimes I forget I'm not playing with people who get me. Uh, so your post was addressed to Frozen and seemed to just be telling him he's scum, which doesn't make sense for town!you to do, so by pointing out that it made no sense I was asking for the actual purpose. Basically, it was a "why did you make this post?"

Does Bessie tunnel more as scum or town?

 

[Chaco]

Laser is definitely inside the PoE, I was more referring to Mala and Boom together.

 

[Synchronicity]

Nope, I've already talked about this to great extent. You really are just throwing things at me hoping they stick huh?

Having talked about it already doesn't make the discrepancy go away. You had Boom at the top of your read list and Wam at the bottom of your readlist. Yet one of your reasons for having Boom as your top read is because "if we yeet Wam and for some reason he flips town." This indicates that the way you are reading people is not internally consistent, rather your reads are pick-and-choose.

This is true and why I'm not as solid on Boom. However, this to me in the only scenario in which the boom vote switch is sus, which makes it totally predicated on Wam flip. Which is another reason he is near top of my do not yeet, because if we yeet Wam and for some reason he flips town, I'm more sure on it not being boom.

Another reason he is near the top of my do not yeet = the following is why Boom is at the top of my do not yeet
If we Yeet Wam and FOR SOME REASON he flips town = it's DOUBTFUL that wam will flip town, but on the off chance that he does

It doesn't make sense. You think there is a low chance Wam will flip town, but your reason for having Boom at the top of your reads is based on the idea of Wam being town!

LaserGuy address this.

 

[Malakandra]

You're still just going in circles. Why is that the simplest explanation? Why can't it just be town yeeting town or scum trying to make town look suspiciiua.

Because if Wam is town, then they don't need to make or support a big shift onto the Somi wagon, they can just let him be yeeted and not have to worry about. However, you see people like Synch, who literally in their post before they Vote Somi said FoS Wam, jump onto Somi, when it would make more sense to go with your read and take the easy excuse of Sabrar told me to put my vote where my mouth is. Instead we wake up to Sabrar dead. Simplest solution to all this is Wam was scum and had his scum buddies save him last moment and they killed Sabrar because he would have been onto them.

 

[fontisian]

Y'all are focusing so much on finding teams. It's Day 2 and we don't even have scumflip, let's just yeet the scummiest person.

 

[Chaco]

You're still just going in circles. Why is that the simplest explanation? Why can't it just be town yeeting town or scum trying to make town look suspiciiua.

I’m starting to understand the pursuit of Mala here. But I think Mala just doesn’t understand what he’s saying here, he’s contradicting himself and putting forth the most convoluted answer as the simplest and thinking all scum would be on Somi’s lynch. His reads list is pretty consistent with this. I think he’s just fell into a logical hole. He still doesn’t seem scum to me.

 

[fontisian]

Because if Wam is town, then they don't need to make or support a big shift onto the Somi wagon, they can just let him be yeeted and not have to worry about. However, you see people like Synch, who literally in their post before they Vote Somi said FoS Wam, jump onto Somi, when it would make more sense to go with your read and take the easy excuse of Sabrar told me to put my vote where my mouth is. Instead we wake up to Sabrar dead. Simplest solution to all this is Wam was scum and had his scum buddies save him last moment and they killed Sabrar because he would have been onto them.

And what if Syn is just town? What if we're looking at like Boom/Laser/Dark Horse or something?

 

[Malakandra]

Having talked about it already doesn't make the discrepancy go away. You had Boom at the top of your read list and Wam at the bottom of your readlist. Yet one of your reasons for having Boom as your top read is because "if we yeet Wam and for some reason he flips town." This indicates that the way you are reading people is not internally consistent, rather your reads are pick-and-choose.



Another reason he is near the top of my do not yeet = the following is why Boom is at the top of my do not yeet
If we Yeet Wam and FOR SOME REASON he flips town = it's DOUBTFUL that wam will flip town, but on the off chance that he does

It doesn't make sense. You think there is a low chance Wam will flip town, but your reason for having Boom at the top of your reads is based on the idea of Wam being town!

LaserGuy address this.

For the love of god just look at the top of "reads list" Does it say reads? No. It says YEET I'm not willing to yeet boom today because the only scenario I see in which he is scum is if Wam flips scum so the only reason I'd yeet him is for Wam to flip scum and we can't have two flips in one day.

 

[fontisian]

I’m starting to understand the pursuit of Mala here. But I think Mala just doesn’t understand what he’s saying here, he’s contradicting himself and putting forth the most convoluted answer as the simplest and thinking all scum would be on Somi’s lynch. His reads list is pretty consistent with this. I think he’s just fell into a logical hole. He still doesn’t seem scum to me.

This is literally what I thought Mala was doing when he "didn't get" my Frozen case in Midnight Ops.

 

[Chaco]

Y'all are focusing so much on finding teams. It's Day 2 and we don't even have scumflip, let's just yeet the scummiest person.

Join me on Synchro. I get the two for one, Fonti and Frozen. I’ll settle out of court for laser though.

 

[Chaco]

This is literally what I thought Mala was doing when he "didn't get" my Frozen case in Midnight Ops.

I need to reference that then.

 

[Chaco]

To add a question to that though Fonti, Mala pinged me on that after everything else because I realized he was disingenuous and his emotions that should’ve been showing were not. How do you feel his tone is here with what he’s saying?

 

[fontisian]

Mala doesn't get why his conclusion doesn't make sense because he doesn't want to get it.

 

[fontisian]

To add a question to that though Fonti, Mala pinged me on that after everything else because I realized he was disingenuous and his emotions that should’ve been showing were not. How do you feel his tone is here with what he’s saying?

I don't know. His tone seems fine, except for the "don't hammer!" thing?

 

[Chaco]

Malakandra Question for you: Do you think all scum were on Somi’s yeet? It seems that is the case. If so, can you tell me why you think that. And why it wouldn’t be an opposite case of where someone who tried to go the other route is scum? Why does wam have to be scum upon Somi’s townflip. Look at midnight D2?, the opposing wagons were Rajam and Boom, iirc. Both were town.

 

[Malakandra]

And what if Syn is just town? What if we're looking at like Boom/Laser/Dark Horse or something?

Then why do they kill Sabrar if both laser and Boom joined the Wam wagon and I don't recall Dark Horse saying anything about wanting to yeet Wam before. And Syn isn't town. I absolutely refuse to believe it. If a Giraffe said he was IC in the thread right now I wouldn't believe it.

 

[Chaco]

Like #1256 seems legitimately frustrated to me, and feeling that’s he’s being misconstrued

 

[Malakandra]

Malakandra Question for you: Do you think all scum were on Somi’s yeet? It seems that is the case. If so, can you tell me why you think that. And why it wouldn’t be an opposite case of where someone who tried to go the other route is scum? Why does wam have to be scum upon Somi’s townflip. Look at midnight D2?, the opposing wagons were Rajam and Boom, iirc. Both were town.

Let me look at Midnight and do some homework, I've got a class in 40 minutes and I was planning on getting my HW done before I got caught up and I think I'm a little too heated at this moment in time.

 

[fontisian]

Then why do they kill Sabrar if both laser and Boom joined the Wam wagon and I don't recall Dark Horse saying anything about wanting to yeet Wam before. And Syn isn't town. I absolutely refuse to believe it. If a Giraffe said he was IC in the thread right now I wouldn't believe it.

Because it makes Wam and the Somi voters look bad. Or because they thought he was pr. Or because he seemed suspicious of Laser. There a ton of reasons scum make kills.

 

[Chaco]

Because it makes Wam and the Somi voters look bad. Or because they thought he was pr. Or because he seemed suspicious of Laser. There a ton of reasons scum make kills.

And hardly ever is it right trying to decipher what motivation it is. Look at me trying to do NK analysis in Vanilla, Malakandra , I was so far off base and missed the obvious of why they did it: Cause Osie was on FF.

 

[Synchronicity]

For the love of god just look at the top of "reads list" Does it say reads? No. It says YEET I'm not willing to yeet boom today because the only scenario I see in which he is scum is if Wam flips scum so the only reason I'd yeet him is for Wam to flip scum and we can't have two flips in one day.

It doesn't matter whether it says Read List, Yeet List, or Feet List, the point is the same: If you think Boom is only town if Wam is scum it doesn't make sense for your read on Boom to be based on the idea of Wam flipping town.

Especially when you're doing the exact opposite with my slot:

When they FoS Wam, they thought it was fine since it seemed the Chaco and FF wagons were gonna stay up, then Sabrar changed things and they had to scramble. They knew Sabrar was going to point out the weirdness today, so they killed him.

Xivii famously doesn't buss, and was doing everything he could to save his teammate.

Voting Wam out here gives us so much info, and us likely to hit scum.

Vote: Wam

You're so sure that Wam is going to flip scum, that you're willing to lynch ME from it. Your whole case on me is based on Wam being scum. So if you think scum!wam leads to scum Boom, why is he in the sacred "Don't Yeet" while I am not?

 

[LaserGuy]

Because if Wam is town, then they don't need to make or support a big shift onto the Somi wagon, they can just let him be yeeted and not have to worry about. However, you see people like Synch, who literally in their post before they Vote Somi said FoS Wam, jump onto Somi, when it would make more sense to go with your read and take the easy excuse of Sabrar told me to put my vote where my mouth is. Instead we wake up to Sabrar dead. Simplest solution to all this is Wam was scum and had his scum buddies save him last moment and they killed Sabrar because he would have been onto them.

You have causality backwards. Somi wagon came before wam's did. If anything, both somi and wam are both counterwagons to Chaco or Frozen. Here's the last couple of VCs:

1.8
Fontisian (2): Wam, Dark Horse
Chaco (2): Kary, LaserGuy
FrozenFlame (2):, BoomFrog, Sabrar
Wam (2): FrozenFlame, Malakandra
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

1.9
Chaco (4): Kary, LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (3): BoomFrog, Sabrar, Malakandra
Wam (2): FrozenFlame, Malakandra
Fontisian (1): Dark Horse
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

1.10
Chaco (4): Kary, LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (4): BoomFrog, Sabrar, Malakandra, Dark Horse
Wam (1): FrozenFlame,
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

The abrupt swing to somi/wam begins here.

1.11
Somitomi(5): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse
Chaco (3): , LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
Wam (3): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary
FrozenFlame (2): BoomFrog, Malakandra,

1.12
Somitomi(5): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse
Wam (5): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary, BoomFrog, LaserGuy
Chaco (2): Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (1): Malakandra,

1.14
Somitomi(7): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse, Wam, Boomfrog
Wam (5): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary, LaserGuy, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (1): Malakandra,

 

[BoomFrog]

LaserGuy You've got the 1.9 correction VC as your 1.10. The actual 1.10 is after Sabrar votes wam.

Vote Count 1.10

Chaco (4): Kary, LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (3): BoomFrog, Malakandra, Dark Horse
Wam (2): FrozenFlame, Sabrar
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

Not Voting (1): Pythag

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Day Ends at 5 PM CST on Friday the 11th, a little under 2.5 hrs from this post! Live Countdown to EOD1

Pythag immediately follows and it's 3 on wam. Then Sync and Fonti go for Somi, FF sheeps on and DH jumps on.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Request Replacement

I'm really sorry I have to do this, but things recently came up that will make it very difficult for me to give this game the attention it deserves. Hope the rest of the game goes well for everyone involved.

 

[BoomFrog]

Sync seemed genuinely surprised to see Fonti go on, so they are less likely to be mates. Most likely mates are one of Fonti/Sync and DarkHorse (or FF if Fonti is scum).

Malakandra If your world is based on wam = scum, why have you not expressed suspicion of Dark Horse?

 

[BoomFrog]

So why do you think that this is definitely a townslip? Why couldn't they have made the notes earlier, but still be scum?

They could have. It's just evidence that this was either planned far in advance or is genuine. However, since this point Fonti has pointed out the dynamics of a hydra make that harder to judge.

Am I a joke to you?

A Superhero staring at two red buttons; sweating

Boom, talk to me about Dark Horse.

I've just really vibed with a lot of the points that DH has made. They often end up saying what I'm thinking, or at least what makes sense from my imagination of their view. You could probably look through DH's posts and find the ones I liked.... :D That said, the team analysis is pushing me that if you are town they are the most likely slot to reevaluate.

BoomFrog are you saying that you interpreted my post as trying to convince my scumread of other reads, but since I included him as scum I wasn't approaching it in the best way? This seems rather convoluted.

I doubt this will be high value to disect, but I'll humor you as you've humored me. I had two layers of what I'm saying. And amusingly I think the first layer is what Fonti was saying, I just went a step further. First layer is Just a basic "huh?" because I don't see why you'd phrase it the way you did. Then all the rest of what I wrote is about how I think one should address suposed scum.

If a Giraffe said he was IC in the thread right now I wouldn't believe it.

Mafia has taught me to never be that sure of anything that's not proven.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

#HBC | Kary I can't for the life of me understand your obsession with me not voting Frozen. Do you think Frozen is town? If not whey do you think scum!me didn't vote him?

I don't feel like you have spent any time trying to understand it.

I am just repeating myself at this point. You attack strong players like frozen and myself, but when it comes time to eliminate someone, you just take the path of least resistance. You are opportunistic, you prey on weaker players, and demonstrably do not believe your own reads. You're scum.

#HBC | Kary Between Fonti, Mala, Boom: who would be scum that fits your other scumreads?

I don't think Mala is scummy at all, they seem painfully new and obvious town. If you're asking me who is partners with Sync, it feels like Fonti is more likely than Boom just because they were on the same waggon in somi and again now on Mala.

The answer is in the post. He was looking for guidance, I instinctively respond to that.

So you're saying that it is completely NAI from you, and you always try and help new players in every game?

You didn't react well last time and I'm not as strong on Syn, yes. Note that I waited on breaking up your fight with Chaco until I felt comfortable townreading both of you.

Would you vote for Sync today, yes or no?

 

[BoomFrog]

btw, #HBC | Kary Since that EoD thank you post seems to still bother you, I want to explain it's just that the last three games I've played in had several replacements and barely active players and it was just really refreshing to have full participation and made D1 much better then normal.

 

[Chaco]

#HBC | Kary So you think it’s Synch/Laser/Fonti?

 

[Chaco]

Rereading I see that both Mala and Laser suggest that all scum is on Somi wagon. Looking at VCs I just don’t see that, not at this skill level when town has to make a decision anyways and it was obvious that Somi was going to be the one to go when the wagon started to ramp up. Middle ground is where I’d begin looking for scum, and then maybe at the end. But this whole idea that every scum is on that wagon just does not make any sense. They’re not gonna fall in like duckies to make a path clear. Laser I don’t see why you’d even suggest that, Mala is a little less experienced and you can track where he’s stuck in circular logic, but I cannot wrap my head around why you’re presenting that.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

it's my little brother's birthday today so sorry gonna be occupied all night so wont be able to engage in dept with people responding to my posts but I will get to that tomorrow night latest

kary's takes on synch are getting more and more convincing and I much prefer synch to mala lynch throwing my support there

Unvote: Boomfrog
Vote: Synchronicity

booms response to my points against his slot don't make me feel any better, his response essentially just boils down to "what if you're wrong bro" and thats about as non responsive and dismissive as it gets

 

[BoomFrog]

his response essentially just boils down to "what if you're wrong bro"

I.. uh... what?? You and I need a talk when you are free later. You are either scum being ridiculously dismissive or we are miscommunicating.