Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[#HBC | Kary]

What does hammering gain us.

Catharsis after 8 years of non-stop nonsense? Drama? Excitement? A rush of blood that makes you feel alive?

I don't think it helps us to hammer him now, but don't tell anyone I said that because I'll lose my #HBC licence.

 

[Chaco]

Chaco you were saying before that you think Laser can only be scum if Xivii is scum.

But do you think that Xivii being scum guarantees Laser scum?

Cause of lasers newest posts. It’s theatre of Synch is scum for sure. Just look at the way it’s presented and the notation of I’m gonna sleep on it and such, then coming back in with a big post retracting vote and saying it could only be fake if such and such and it would be little gain, casting reasonable doubt to it being fake.

Malakandra How so if Fonti is only mentioned in one sides notes and only that once in a place it makes no sense to edit? Explain that and I’ll gladly reconsider, but it makes zero sense otherwise.

 

[Chaco]

I will buy premie and change my name to #hbc Chaco, with permission of Marshy, if this goes through today and we snag thatscum flip

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Cause of lasers newest posts. It’s theatre of Synch is scum for sure. Just look at the way it’s presented and the notation of I’m gonna sleep on it and such, then coming back in with a big post retracting vote and saying it could only be fake if such and such and it would be little gain, casting reasonable doubt to it being fake.

I agree that Laser could elaborate on what he finds townie about the notes. But I sleep on things all the time. I feel like Xivii is more likely scum with someone like BoomFrog who was relatively in the background.

 

[Chaco]

I agree that Laser could elaborate on what he finds townie about the notes. But I sleep on things all the time. I feel like Xivii is more likely scum with someone like BoomFrog who was relatively in the background.

Right but do you announce it?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Right but do you announce it?

I mean I absolutely have done in the past, yeah.

 

[Chaco]

I mean I absolutely have done in the past, yeah.

Fair enough.

 

[Pythag]

Catharsis after 8 years of non-stop nonsense? Drama? Excitement? A rush of blood that makes you feel alive?

I don't think it helps us to hammer him now, but don't tell anyone I said that because I'll lose my #HBC licence.

 

[Synchronicity]

Pythag where you currently read wise

 

[Pythag]

Pythag where you currently read wise

To be honest I’m a bit behind. Things have been....busier than I would have liked

I feel like I’m seeing two very vocal teams form.
Have you responded to Chaco finding your “omega slip”?

mala and FF interaction looks bad, but mala looks worse
Boom essentially posted “I’m scummy”
You were convinced of Town!wam, and yet are still ok with an info lynch of him today.

I think Kary is reading town, although I’m still astonished at the sheer amount of text Kary has put forward.

I’m not impressed with lasers posts but I don’t know if that’s scummy or not. There’s too much meta in general being thrown around that I really don’t know, and if I’m honest I’m probably not going to read the old games at this point.

I know I’m leaving people out, I’m on mobile, aNd just got off work. I hope to read on an actual computer later this evening

 

[Pythag]

ALSO I’m freaking pissed off that Sab died. I need to look at his D1 thoughts again

 

[LaserGuy]

But it wasn't either of them, it was just left and right brain.

The left brain notes are written by bessie. Right are written by Xivii. bessie's writing style in particular is very distinctive (I've also played... mmm... maybe 20 games with her and she's very consistent). The two sets of notes have notably different voices, as do many of their posts in thread. The left/right assignments match well with the personalities of the players. I can't say that I'm positive on every post that they've produced, but I feel I've been able to identify their posts by author in most of them. I think for a lot of practical reasons (differing schedules, for example), it doesn't make sense for them to collaborate on their notes, though I imagine in a lot of cases they are collaborating on individual posts or reads.

What makes you think a slot with twice the brainpower wouldn't put a bit of extra work in?

I think the extra work would probably be more heavily invested in-thread if they were mafia. They have been complaining about not having enough time and putting the time they do have into making fake notes seems impractical. At least, when I'm scum, to the extent that I make notes at all, I make no effort to disguise my agenda because my notes aren't for public consumption... my thoughts are preoccupied with who are likely PRs and what Town drama I can exploit and who the most plausible candidates for misyeets are and who is suspicious of me (see here for an example; contrast here for a town example). I don't see a lot of purpose in making a "pure" set of notes that analyze the game as if I were Town and don't make any reference to my actual goals, unless those notes were created for the express purpose of generating a townslip. So I lean Town on them doing this because I think the former is much more likely than the latter. But if they are a fabrication, there's probably an easy way to check since, I imagine, the notes will probably not be exhaustive for the whole thread:

Chaco , Can you pick a page at random and ask Sync for their notes from it?

You had no urgency. This may be hard to follow for some people because Somi flipped town, but Boom should have felt like his scumreads were trying to save Somi there and reacted, and instead he ****ed around talking about wagons that we didn't have time to do, and absconded all responsibility for his vote to me, Sabrar and Syn.

Vote: Boomfrog

I agree with a lot of this. BoomFrog hates voting with his scumreads.

I've listed a number of them. Particularly the post where he did the somi point analysis and ended up voting him despite ending on the plus side.

Ironically, the only posts that have really pinged as townie are these recent ones where Chaco believes he's caught you in a slip.

I agree that Laser could elaborate on what he finds townie about the notes. But I sleep on things all the time. I feel like Xivii is more likely scum with someone like BoomFrog who was relatively in the background.

Hopefully this is answered in my comments above to Mala, but if there's more detail you want, please ask.

 

[Synchronicity]

Was your solitary, unexplained vote on me more important than pressuring a scum frozen?

Yes, I was focused on you at that point. I don't get what's so hard to comprehend about this. I wasn't "laying the groundwork for voting Frozen," I was rereading, thought it was strange that Frozen announced his vote plans in #35, and questioned him about it. His answer from that line of questioning ultimately ended up being fine. I caught up, made a case on you, and then it was deadline. Somi finally busted out his reads at the last minute and I was scum pinged by them as they didn't seem to be trying to sort people, and that's where my vote landed Then the somi wagon picked up and it became either wam or somi and since it's a plurality, voters are incentivised to remain on-wagon near the end of day if there is a competing wagon they don't agree with, as switching at that point

 

[Synchronicity]

Pythag yes that was addressed. I'll pull back now so you/Boom/etc. can get caught up.

 

[Synchronicity]

hen the somi wagon picked up and it became either wam or somi and since it's a plurality, voters are incentivised to remain on-wagon near the end of day if there is a competing wagon they don't agree with, as switching at that point [just makes the other wagon the lynch choice].

 

[Chaco]

Yeah LaserGuy , the point I was trying to make when I asked the left and right brain message was for him to answer that it was Xivii and then follow up with when had xivii ever been behind 10 pages in a game.

Synchronicity as soon as you see this give me both brains notes for D1 EoD

 

[BoomFrog]

Jesse Louise... I've found I have to read on my phone to squeeze in time to play mafia, which means keeping quotes on my phone, which means edits are a hassle, so the order of this might be dis.

During the night phase my take was “Malak is town unless wam is scum with him” but I don’t see why scum!mala would then start the day phase by pushing for wam and backing down on FF and not the other way around,

I don't get why wam's alignment affects your read of Mala. Scummates!Mala fakes indecision and would have voted Somi (but I denied that chance). scum!Mala with two townie wagons just fakes indecision either way. Wam's alignment is a non-factor in addressing if Mala's indecision was sincere.

boom had the perfect excuse to pull that vote considering he relieved you of all of that stress.

Disagree, I think I played sub-optimally. If Mala is scum having to keep faking the stress could have lead to a slip. I should have left the stress on Mala to see what happened, but I was trying to quickly analyze too many things and just kept my assumption that Mala was town.

The Kary sandwich post itself is... pretty bad. Kary has kind of already gone through this and explained why most of this does not pass musterd.

FTFY

BoomFrog
Why haven't you interacted with Synchronicity this game? You were quite concerned about reading Xivii in particular since SS, and yet I don't see you making any attempt to sort the slot.

Xivii and I came to an understanding last game that we need to give each other space to work D1. I also don't have high hopes of reading either Bessie or Xivii through interacting with them. I've presumed all that is still true with the Syncronicity. Also, I was basically absent for the middle of D1 and did interact at EoD. Also, also, I just really really want them to be town. Two of my best Mafia buds merged into one being, there's zero chance I'd yeet them D1. Lastly, they've put out plenty of content without prompting. I don't need to interact directly with people to get a read of them.

BoomFrog (weird it's only tagging if I do it twice) why did you like this post?

Are you trying to convince Frozen?

I liked it because I agreed with the line of thinking. Your post said "Frozen, you are scum" Fonti's follow up was a natural question that I also wanted answered.

BoomFrog why did you like this? Fonti is more than capable of playing in this way. She plays and thinks nearly identically to Xivii as scum. She came into the game hard town reading Frozen in order to alleviate pressure from him, knowing that her voice would carry influence due to her accurate read of him in Midnight.

I agreed with what Fonti was saying. Although mostly because I think Gorf and FF' early interactions didn't feel like SvS. You have cast doubt though, so maybe I need to reread that.

This is a really good point

I also agree with this.

Lack of nested quotes make this awkward, but I'm surprised you agree with DH for the reasons I have above in response to DH.

I also want to say that Sabrar's logic was faulty here: if X then Y does not imply that Y being true means X is true.

Left brain should know that if your conclusion is based on the assumption that Sabrar doesn't understand basic logic then check your assumptions.

I'm going to cut these up. Next chunk of responses coming soon.

 

[Chaco]

Unvote
Vote FrozenFlame

Don't like #60 and the doubling down in #86 that ignores the context entirely.

I think this has run its course. I asked the mod obviously.

PoE says scum-team is {Kary, FrozenFlame, wam}. Good game, go next.

What new reads will a somi lynch give you?

Some people are very much against a wam lynch. If wam flips scum that's very telling. If as you say nobody defends somi then in what world will that lynch give you more info?

This is pretty much where sabrar was looking

 

[Chaco]

I quoted two wrong ones...

Laser, Wam, FF, Kary was who all he mentioned

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yes, I was focused on you at that point. I don't get what's so hard to comprehend about this. I wasn't "laying the groundwork for voting Frozen," I was rereading, thought it was strange that Frozen announced his vote plans in #35, and questioned him about it. His answer from that line of questioning ultimately ended up being fine. I caught up, made a case on you, and then it was deadline. Somi finally busted out his reads at the last minute and I was scum pinged by them as they didn't seem to be trying to sort people, and that's where my vote landed Then the somi wagon picked up and it became either wam or somi and since it's a plurality, voters are incentivised to remain on-wagon near the end of day if there is a competing wagon they don't agree with, as switching at that point

The somi waggon picked up BECAUSE of you. You didn't even hesitate in following fonti's vote.

This. Somi is just lining up MLs, not actually trying to figure things out. As Dark Horse said, his reads are exactly the same as the beginning. No progression.

And you agree with Dark Horse's reasons for disliking somi, even though Dark Horse VOTED FOR FROZEN in the same post.

Maybe I could forgive some of this if you didn't start Day 2 saying:

Frozen is obvscum obvscum. It's actually pretty silly that we didn't yeet him yesterday looking back on it. Frozen has been TMI reading people all over the place. Such as his TMI town read of somi early on and his backtrack.

Vote: Frozen

So how am I meant to understand this?

You would rather just rather kill a weaker player? You cared more about saving Wam than killing frozen? You're just obvious scum?

Because all you've told me so far is that you want to ignore this issue and you think it's fine for you to pick and choose your reads to fit the situation.

 

[BoomFrog]

If you're not up to date, then why decide to take matters into your own hands? Did you scumread Mala at end of Day 1?

What reasoning from Synchro did you agree with?

Frankly, because in a crisis I assume I'm the most competent decision maker and try to take over. If I scum read Mala I would have tested him more. The problem was I town read him, but it was clear that he had no idea what he was doing so I dismissed him from the equation. Also, I enjoyed the drama of it.

Why should I not be voting for you then?

Good question, and if I wasn't already town reading you so hard I'd ask you to answer it for yourself. However, my point was that my EoD vote was neutral at best without a healthy dose of wine.

To be fair to myself, I'm not townreading you, I'd call it a town lean.

I seemed awfully high on the list for a town lean.

Then theres some weird crap going on

At the start of D1 if you'd asked me to guess who would be yeeted I'd have guessed wam, FF or Somi (or Gorf if you'd asked me after page 1). The "something strange" whether wam is scum or not is that there are several scum who are playing a strong townie game. This should already be obviously to you.

Are you scumreading mala for anything other than his townread on you?

Yes, basically beyond townie tone (which is discounted weight for Mala) I haven't seen any really townie pings from him. The only real push was FF. Basically, I've got too many town leans so I'm raising the bar and Mala has fallen below it.

I think you rub me the wrong way (alignment wise) in general.

What do you mean by this?

Boom’s activity and presence is what worries me. I feel they were much more present in Midnight and Vanilla

I don't lurk as scum or town. (Xivii disagrees but I think he's wrong) This game I've posted every time I've caught up with the thread. I've had a very busy week for school and family life, although at this point I think I just need to admit that this is the new normal. Anyway, I'm here to play the game as scum or town, lurking is for cowards. Judge me by how I spend the time that I have.

Vote: Boomfrog

You don't get townie credit for doing this after I called people out on it.

You had no urgency. This may be hard to follow for some people because Somi flipped town, but Boom should have felt like his scumreads were trying to save Somi there and reacted, and instead he ****ed around talking about wagons that we didn't have time to do, and absconded all

So, for context, I had to run an errand between 2-2:30 when deadline was 3:00. Which is why I posted "I don't know if I'll be back for deadline". I wasn't relaxed, I was physically absent. Also, I was trying to find a better 3rd choice because I didn't really like either wagon since they were both easy targets. But I'd skipped several pages so I couldn't just blindly galavant off, charging down a stale read. Which is why I kept trying to get my town reads to talk to me about alternatives.

The thing is, your premise relies on the idea that people yeet someone just because they led a mislynch on someone else, and this is just not true. You and I led the Boom yeet in Midnight and weren't pushed afterward. Same for my DP push in Completely Vanilla. I also hard pushed a Handorin misyeet in Sumting and rode free the next day without any suspicion.

I agree with your conclusion, but for the record your examples suck. In midnight, you were protected by being a mason. In vanilla the lingering distrust lead to the loss in LYLO. In Sumting literally everyone voted for Hando and it didn't feel like you'd lead it.

Honestly this point isn't very good. I took that as just them noting Gorf was the one who made the posts, but knowing Fonti was the slot.

Actually I find it to be a true townie slip, because scum Syncro would have edited for consistency and this feels more real.

 

[BoomFrog]

What reasoning from Synchro did you agree with?

Forgot to answer this bit. The point that scum wam can be much more polished and coherent and this wam dngaf.

 

[Pythag]

Honestly this point isn't very good. I took that as just them noting Gorf was the one who made the posts, but knowing Fonti was the slot.

Do you believe this bad point to be intentionally bad?

 

[Chaco]

BoomFrog im not saying it in a sense that you’re lurking, I feel the real life obligations. I’m just saying less presence means it’s harder to read you. I noticed near the end of Vanilla you got busier as well.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Forgot to answer this bit. The point that scum wam can be much more polished and coherent and this wam dngaf.

What do you make of Wam and Synchro cross-voting today?

 

[BoomFrog]

What do you make of Wam and Synchro cross-voting today?

I'm baffled and concerned. I was just coming back to post about it after digesting the thread for a bit.

Synchronicity What happened to your town!wam read? If wam flips town we get basically no info, as scum had no reason to do anything but try to act like town.

 

[BoomFrog]

Boom should have felt like his scumreads were trying to save Somi there and reacted

I realized I didn't actually answer your main point. I didn't realize that most of the Chaco wagon had jumped to the wam wagon. I was focused on trying to figure out which town read to follow, not which scum read to be repulsed by.

 

[BoomFrog]

Also, fontisian and #HBC | FrozeηFlame Totally feel you about the weight of a reputation.

 

[Chaco]

Wait a minute, BoomFrog why would scumSyncro have edited and that be indicative of a town slip? The whole point I’m making is if it’s fabricated then the accidental use of Fonti in that area would be a scum slip. If it’s edited, it’s null at best. Not a town slip. But I still don’t think it’s likely for the reasons I’ve stated above. It’s in to odd of a slot, it’s not in the “Bin” at the end. It’s super easy to glaze over and miss that, so I think it’s legitimately a slip.

 

[Synchronicity]

@Chaco , Can you pick a page at random and ask Sync for their notes from it?

@Synchronicity as soon as you see this give me both brains notes for D1 EoD

I don't have any. And even if I did, I wouldn't go along with this since I think it's against the spirit of the game. It should never be provable that you have notes or communication. There should always be room for doubt / the idea that they can be fabricated.

That being said, if you believe I'm capable of fabricating the notes I've already provided, then scum!me could just do the same thing here.

I liked it because I agreed with the line of thinking. Your post said "Frozen, you are scum" Fonti's follow up was a natural question that I also wanted answered.

On a scale of 0 to 10 how likely do you think it was that I was trying to convince Frozen that he was scum.

Left brain should know that if your conclusion is based on the assumption that Sabrar doesn't understand basic logic then check your assumptions.

The conclusion isn't based on the assumption that Sabrar doesn't understand basic logic. His understanding of logic is irrelevant the accuracy of an argument. That being said, I was incorrect, his logic was sound, the premise was wrong.

 

[BoomFrog]

why would scumSyncro have edited and that be indicative of a town slip?

I mean, town sync just copies and pastes the chunk of log that has the oddity in it. Scum sync would have made the log with the sole purpose of sharing it and so wouldn't have such an odd discrepancy.

 

[Synchronicity]

Synchronicity Synchronicity What happened to your town!wam read? If wam flips town we get basically no info, as scum had no reason to do anything but try to act like town.

I think his town read of Mala is yucky. And his town read of somi.

Flipping for info isn't always the best, but there are circumstances where it is, and this is one of them.

 

[Chaco]

I mean, town sync just copies and pastes the chunk of log that has the oddity in it. Scum sync would have made the log with the sole purpose of sharing it and so wouldn't have such an odd discrepancy.

Right but it’s such an easy miss, I looked at it twice before I noticed it, and no one else did either. Or didn’t mention it. Idk. Because when a player replaces in you mind meld the two slots and don’t make the separation, that’s why I view it as a slip that they wouldn’t have even realized it.

Synchronicity Okay. That’s fine. But if it’s against spirit why do it in the first place?

 

[Synchronicity]

Synchronicity Okay. That’s fine. But if it’s against spirit why do it in the first place?

Playing post notes from page X is against the spirit, not posting notes themselves.

 

[BoomFrog]

On a scale of 0 to 10 how likely do you think it was that I was trying to convince Frozen that he was scum.

0 obviously. It was just a sassy way of saying "why did you choose to phrase things that way?" Usually, when you scum read someone, you still consider they could be town and if you are going to interact with them directly usually ideally you frame it in a way that will get a cooperative response so you can get more info.

That being said, I was incorrect, his logic was sound, the premise was wrong

So what was Sabrar's premise?

 

[Synchronicity]

For the record I did review my notes when I posted them, and considered changing Fonti back to Gorf for the sake of avoiding this situation, but I figured no one would actually be dense enough to think it was a slip.

So what was Sabrar's premise?

That if Dark Horse is scum then Gorf must be scum.

 

[BoomFrog]

Right but it’s such an easy miss, I looked at it twice before I noticed it, and no one else did either.

Right. Easy to miss when scanning EXISTING notes. Not easy to miss when writing notes. That means the notes really existed before toDay. Either sync made fake notes from day 1 with the intention of posting them for town cred or they are real.

 

[Chaco]

Right. Easy to miss when scanning EXISTING notes. Not easy to miss when writing notes. That means the notes really existed before toDay. Either sync made fake notes from day 1 with the intention of posting them for town cred or they are real.

But it is though. When you’re writing them, and you are going through it why put a “shotgun scum list” in that spot and say Fonti and be reading and say Gorf there. Cause you’re going through the pages as you write them and see Gorf. The whole idea that they go back and edited them in the first place as they are saying is where it debunks what you’re saying. We can agree to disagree but the whole way it’s being presented makes me think it’s likely fabricated, cause I’ve seen every different way from them so far about how it could’ve made it through. It’s addendum upon addendum to why it made it, then it was I realized it but didn’t change it. So idk. It may not be, but its precarious nonetheless. Especially with that being a pivotal point of Laser now townreading them. Seems to hand in hand.

 

[BoomFrog]

For the record I did review my notes when I posted them, and considered changing Fonti back to Gorf for the sake of avoiding this situation, but I figured no one would actually be dense enough to think it was a slip.

Cheers

So why did you originally say it was edited then change to say it was drafted that way because it was written after Fonti replaced?

That if Dark Horse is scum then Gorf must be scum.

Alright, there's a dropped wire somewhere between the three of us in this conversation. I forgot what premise means and assumed I was asking a different question. Please tell me you're not intentionally trying to be obtuse, though. Anyway, if you think you know what evidence Sabrar was using for his reasoning beyond what you already mentioned then let me know.

 

[BoomFrog]

I figured no one would actually be dense enough to think it was a slip.

Also, don't be rude.