Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[giraffelasergun]

Vote Count 1.2

BoomFrog (4); Kary, Pythag, Chaco, Malakandra
Malakandra (3): Synchronicity, Boomfrog, Dark Horse
Dark Horse (1): Gorf
Kary (1): Sabrar
Chaco (1): FrozenFlame
Synchronicity(1): Somitomi
Gorf(1): Wam

Not Voting (1): LaserGuy

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Day Ends at 5 PM CST on Friday the 11th! Live Countdown to EOD1

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Dark Horse

I think you’re either dumb or scum, trying to reach in whatever sort of depths that you can to get people to make stances and get the ball rolling, or to look like you’re making content now to try and nab a good first impression, which is why when you asked me that I was like yo why are you trying to make me take a stance on effectively nothing? And even now I don’t get your intent

I think this actually makes me lean “dumb” rather than scum on DH.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

#HBC | Dark Horse I don’t think anybody thought of the malakandra wagon as a pressure wagon.

my vote on you was nothing but was my question following it nothing too?

I think you’re either dumb or scum, trying to reach in whatever sort of depths that you can to get people to make stances and get the ball rolling, or to look like you’re making content now to try and nab a good first impression, which is why when you asked me that I was like yo why are you trying to make me take a stance on effectively nothing? And even now I don’t get your intent

Man what is this response.

If anything your question is worse now that you say you don't have strong opinions on malak/boomfrog. You thought it was just an rvs wagon but you were still trying to get wam to scumread people on the wagon?

And for all of this talk you're still not answering my question or really giving any feed back on a lot of the state of the game. I'll ask you a third and final time.

What are your thoughts on things since then?

 

[LaserGuy]

Really? Even after your tutoring in Midnight? I'd think he'd stick to your advice and remain chill.

we were all scum together in midnight ops though you obviously got to play alongside mala WAYYYY longer than I did. My impression of mala was always that of a more chill/laid back style, is your opinion here at all based on what you saw from mala as a mate in midnight ops or is this a deeper meta read?

Let me be a little more specific here. I think Mala-as-scum would think that the townie reaction here to being put at L-2 would be to make some meaningful commentary on the wagon and the people that are on it. I don't think he'd freak out as scum, but I don't think he would just dismiss it entirely either.

 

[Chaco]

To further Mala read, even him questioning me about it supports that he’s wary of me pocketing him from an early town read.

LaserGuy nailed it perfectly.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Its not. Simply marking that it was a tied vote now. But in spirit of being on one wagon, I chose Boom for the above reasons. You’re looking to much at the part that I named when it served no purpose other than a marker that the votes were once again equal.

See this comes off weird to me. Why are you saying I'm "overfocusing" on your deliberate decision to comment on the fact that your vote made the wagons even? You made the choice to highlight that, not me. I was curious as to why you felt it was important to mention "equality." Hence why I said it came off like an optics move, a way to add a vote and pass it off under the consensus building guise of "keeping things equal." Felt like a placating move

It’s moreso highlighting why I thought him asking me to choose between boomfrog and mala was pointless, and then asking what the point of asking me that was. There’s nothing to defend against

I don't think it's fair to say that someone asking to you pick between two slots this early in the game is pointless. no one is expecting you to case a slot but there's nothing wrong with pressuring people into taking stances early. doesn't mean you have to stick with your pick forever but it's forcing you to make a move, and scum hate having to make moves they don't have to. no one was expecting you "defend" against anything, just looking for insight into your rationale

EBWOP:

Yeah, but being a bit contrarian is also fun.

this is so unlike your approach as my mate in vanilla mafia that I'm inclined to just gut townread you for now lmao

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

because I honestly don’t think that anybody with any sort of mafia acumen would wonder about whether 10 vs 3 or 9 vs 4 is better balance wise. If you want to show me a balanced 9 vs 4 setup by all means I’d love to see it. I can’t imagine that not being ridiculously scum favored

this was my initial impression to sabrars question, I really had a hard time imagining a fair game where town has to lynch correctly 4 times to win over the scum only needing 3 mislynches assuming perfect play from both sides and no non-scum nightkills

Chaco have you seen malek react badly to pressure as scum? And no one has a good boomfrog read.

I agree with FF gorf looks defensive.
unvote

vote gorf

fwiw Gorf is generally a more "heated" player so defensiveness from the slot is def to be expected and generally comes off null for me when reading gorf but him being this defensive so early definitely pings a bit for me, just want to provide some meta on one of the slots in this game that I actually have voluminous experience with

I wouldn't really consider the malak wagon to be true rvs because it felt like people were trying to make it into a pressure wagon. At the very least your vote on me seemed like a zero content vote at a time where people were trying to create content. My question was nothing super groundbreaking so I'm surprised by your response.

While you're at it.

I'm 100% guilty of the bolded, I jumped on the early mala RVS wagon with RVS rationale but I was also being opportunistic in that I saw it as an early opportunity to see what coalition would form on the wagon and what would form on any competing wagon

Regardless, A tied wagon is much more interesting from my perspective.

why? a tied wagon is an extremely boring gamestate unless both wagons are L-1. Tied wagons are one of the most "stable" gamestates in a plurality lynch ruleset. If the two frontrunners are tied, you're actually in a position to no lynch if deadline hits. Imbalanced gamestates are far more interesting, what makes you think tied wagons are?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

this is so unlike your approach as my mate in vanilla mafia that I'm inclined to just gut townread you for now lmao

oh **** maybe you're just outplaying me by tone shifting just like I did from midnight ops to vanilla mafia

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Meta question are 4 votes at RVS normal on here?

Wam Wam if you had to choose right now who’s vote on malakandra is the scummiest and why?

yea I wanted to know if he had any thoughts on scumminess on a wagon that seemed abnormal to him

idk if dumb or scum but I’ll go ahead and tell you I’m ignoring your question about my thoughts on the game as it stands for now outright, so don’t wet yourself worrying about it

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I would have preferred to follow up on that without your intervention, thank you very much.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Vote: Gorf we move

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

everyones a pipe hittin HBC homie till the HBC comes for you

Unvote: Chaco
Vote: Gorf

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I don't think it's fair to say that someone asking to you pick between two slots this early in the game is pointless. no one is expecting you to case a slot but there's nothing wrong with pressuring people into taking stances early. doesn't mean you have to stick with your pick forever but it's forcing you to make a move, and scum hate having to make moves they don't have to. no one was expecting you "defend" against anything, just looking for insight into your rationale

I still don’t understand how my tone was defensive at all, it was in not understanding why DH chose to ask me, seemingly randomly, about my stance on An RVS shenanigan. My knee jerk reaction was that he was scum tryna cash in on easy content, and I still think that can be it, but I can see how it’s dumb town, just like his vote on me above. Really dumb, can’t honestly say if it’s scummy or not at this point. I actually DO think there’s something wrong with randomly asking for people’s thoughts or stances on things, its baby content and it’s easy for scum to do that instead of actually tryna get their hands dirty.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that everyone scumreads me and my scum meta is that everyone townreads me so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

 

[Chaco]

Just commentary, #HBC | FrozeηFlame . Nothing more. You trying to sort me here though makes me want to say you’re town leaning here versus openly approaching me the last two games.

Not really seeing Gorf defensiveness, seeing more bluntness.

 

[Wam]

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that everyone scumreads me and my scum meta is that everyone townreads me so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

Yeah as someone with a similar meta at one point I have used the same defence as scum several times. My vote is now serious.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that people don’t understand when I say something as a joke and take dumb things I say seriously and my scum meta is that everybody understands when I say something as a joke and don’t take dumb things I say seriously so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

 

[somitomi]

@xkcd players don’t worry, my town meta is that people don’t understand when I say something as a joke and take dumb things I say seriously and my scum meta is that everybody understands when I say something as a joke and don’t take dumb things I say seriously so it should be clear what side you guys should fall to

 

[Sabrar]

the fact that DH asks this followup question and not Kary made me do a double take. when literally thought it was DH who told pythag to pick a wagon and then followed up with the why. interesting confluence in interest between these two slots on pythag's rationale, if one of these slots flips scum this is an interesting connection to look at

they've had little to no interaction in thread yet, which is unsurprising considering the game has been open for under 24 hours. as far as I can see they have not meaningfully interacted at all such that they'd have any reason to be buddying each other at this point. this is not a slam dunk by any means but I found it to be a very surprising page 1 connection that I wanted people to take note of. Kary pushes pythag to make a move, DH comes in immediately after with the natural followup question which could readily be explained by scum chat coordination to poke at pythag early. not at all saying thats what happened, obviously it could be two townies looking to pressure the same slot and DH just was able to intuit what the point of forcing pythag to choose is was but it just pinged as too much to be purely coincidental

Incorrect reasoning. By the same token you should also make the same connection whenever a third person jumps in to a double sided conversation. Like you yourself did and was apparently proud of it.
I would actually love if people would show restraint when others are having a conversation and are interested in untainted opionions, but that basically never happens and you can't claim that one such instance is more sus than the others.

because I honestly don’t think that anybody with any sort of mafia acumen would wonder about whether 10 vs 3 or 9 vs 4 is better balance wise. If you want to show me a balanced 9 vs 4 setup by all means I’d love to see it. I can’t imagine that not being ridiculously scum favored

I have participated in a 9-3-3-1 game where town lynched correctly 4 times in a row and a single mislynch on D5 was enough for a scum victory.​

Just because it's not the most balanced doesn't mean that at one point it won't make an appearance.​

If the two frontrunners are tied, you're actually in a position to no lynch if deadline hits.

I see someone didn't read the rules very carefully.

FoS FrozenFlame

 

[#HBC | Kary]

What do you find disappointing?

Is there something impressive or noteworthy that I missed?
We have a 96 hour deadline, to get only about 12 posts in the first 12 hours wasn't exactly an action-packed start.

 

[Wam]

Sabrar why is not reading the rule alignment indicative?

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar why is not reading the rule alignment indicative?

It's the first part that's actually FoS-worthy, I just happened to place it at the end.

 

[LaserGuy]

Cause it’s more pertinent for me to sort Boom quicker. I have a good grasp of BoomFrog, sans ambiguous play at end of Kary’s game, and feel that’s a quick route to a town clear for me/or scum catch from higher pressure entrance. Mala will be easier to read under pressure basically, two wagons diverge and gotta pick one.

What are your impressions of BoomFrog so far?

Some what are your thoughts on these wagons? Is there a crazier one of the two?

Who was this meant to be directed at?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I viewed it similarly to gorf and wasn’t about to try to “yeet” someone who hadn’t posted, so boom was the choice.
Regardless, A tied wagon is much more interesting from my perspective.

So to be clear, nothing stuck out to you before I asked you to pick a waggon?

Sabrar how much do you value what happens in RVS?

 

[Chaco]

LaserGuy Underwhelmed so far. Present but hardly any presence. Best post is the one about your coaching of Mala, but I have a differing opinion on that. Everything else is null. Nothing to really form on them yet from minimal content. Their reaction to wagon is indifference so nothing could be read from it, so L-1 may help. Mala’s reaction was clear cut townie.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

#HBC | Kary Mirrored sentiments, although I have no experience with Bessie but I feel my recent confidence to read Xivii has gone out the window now. I feel this slot will be hard to sort.

So what's your strategy going to be with them? Other than asking me, I mean.

LaserGuy I want to hear why you chose to vote Mala out of the gate.

 

[LaserGuy]

I'm liking Dark Horse's content so far and have a solid Town lean on them at the moment.

Gorf comes across as tonally very hostile. I'm not yet certain if that is just their personality or if that is scum motivated, so I don't think I'm going to move there just yet.

I'm really liking somitomi's "all-snark all-the-time" this game. I also get townie vibes from him.

Btw. before I forget and spend a whole game getting it wrong again, does anyone besides bessie prefer female pronouns?

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar how much do you value what happens in RVS?

Very little. Anything expressed in RVS can be later 'discarded' because it happened during RVS.

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy LaserGuy I want to hear why you chose to vote Mala out of the gate.

We played as scum together in Midnight OPS (along with Frozen). Mala played a very strong game under challenging circumstances and really impressed me.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

We played as scum together in Midnight OPS (along with Frozen). Mala played a very strong game under challenging circumstances and really impressed me.

I guess that is more recent than osie's sumting mafia.

who is NOT "dangerous as mafia" in this playerlist?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Very little. Anything expressed in RVS can be later 'discarded' because it happened during RVS.

Cool, I will ignore your vote then.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Incorrect reasoning. By the same token you should also make the same connection whenever a third person jumps in to a double sided conversation. Like you yourself did and was apparently proud of it.
I would actually love if people would show restraint when others are having a conversation and are interested in untainted opionions, but that basically never happens and you can't claim that one such instance is more sus than the others.

I don't think this tracks at all. All I was pointing out was that Kary pushed pythag to pick between two slots, and then DH asks the predictable followup question of why when I would have instead expected Kary to do it. This is a little bit different than a "third person jumping into a double sided conversation." It's one thing for someone to be posing questions to another slot and then another person jumps in and starts asking their own questions or commenting on the responses given. It's a little more unique of a scenario when one person makes a demand of a slot and then an entirely different slot asks what I would label the natural followup question very quickly after the pressured slot makes the pick that was demanded. I'm just saying in this specific instance it felt possibly coordinated.

I get that you're frustrated that I "tainted" your questioning of gorf but I don't know where this "you just did it yourself and are apparantly proud of it" is coming from. Proud of what? like where are you getting this alleged pride from? I was just impatient and asked for your take on his response before you got around to it yourself

and again I'll reiterate: I didnt not at all say that DH or Kary were suss for the interaction, I was was simply pointing out that it seemed possibly coordinated to me and that people should take note for later if one of the slots flips scum

I have participated in a 9-3-3-1 game where town lynched correctly 4 times in a row and a single mislynch on D5 was enough for a scum victory.​

Just because it's not the most balanced doesn't mean that at one point it won't make an appearance.​

ok fair but that kind of a game is a bit outside the spectrum of possibilities for the smashboards meta. We've had some really imbalanced games here many, many years ago but at this point the remaining players on smashboards are pretty veteran and we have a review process before anyone hosts a game here. this kind of insane imbalance just isn't realistic for a setup here. now 9v4 as opposed to 10v3 isn't a fringe case argument like your above example but just trying to make the point that Im not surprised that other smashboards vets would be unsure if someone was being serious suggesting a possible 9v4 setup, I had a similar reaction as you can tell by my first question directed at you asking you specifically if you were being serious

I see someone didn't read the rules very carefully.

guilty as charged, I missed the tiebreaker clause, I just saw it was plurality lynch, resigned myself to accepting that this ****ty ruleset is getting more popular than hard majority lynch and not playing to protest will be futile, and then signed up for the game

 

[Chaco]

#HBC | Kary Treat them like an unknown vet. Don’t apply any meta at all. Just focus on tells, interactions, and inflection.

 

[Sabrar]

I don't think this tracks at all. All I was pointing out was that Kary pushed pythag to pick between two slots, and then DH asks the predictable followup question of why when I would have instead expected Kary to do it. This is a little bit different than a "third person jumping into a double sided conversation."

Let's spell it out then.

Scenario 1
Kary asks Pythag to choose between wagons.
Pythag does so.
We don't know at this point whether Kary would follow up on this because people are not obligated to react to everything immediately.
After a short time DH comes in and follows up instead of Kary.

Scenario 2
Sabrar poses a question to Gorf.
Gorf has a reply.
We don't know at this point whether Sabrar would follow up on this because people are not obligated to react to everything immediately.
After a short time FF comes in and follows up instead of Sabrar.

See how they are exactly the same?

I get that you're frustrated that I "tainted" your questioning of gorf but I don't know where this "you just did it yourself and are apparantly proud of it" is coming from. Proud of what? like where are you getting this alleged pride from? I was just impatient and asked for your take on his response before you got around to it yourself

You being proud comes from #90. I asked you not to butt in, you decided to meme.

and again I'll reiterate: I didnt not at all say that DH or Kary were suss for the interaction, I was was simply pointing out that it seemed possibly coordinated to me and that people should take note for later if one of the slots flips scum

And my point has nothing to do with how you presented that connection, it's about how singling out that connection in the first place is illogical.

ok fair but that kind of a game is a bit outside the spectrum of possibilities for the smashboards meta. We've had some really imbalanced games here many, many years ago but at this point the remaining players on smashboards are pretty veteran and we have a review process before anyone hosts a game here.

Aren't you the same FrozenFlame who was 100% sure in Crossover that the mods wouldn't include toxic roles like Survivors and Bombs?

 

[LaserGuy]

I guess that is more recent than osie's sumting mafia.

Yes, it was the game after that one. Link here.

who is NOT "dangerous as mafia" in this playerlist?

About half the players here I don't know at all or at least have never seen play as scum, so I don't really know. My impression is that this a very strong playerlist.

 

[BoomFrog]

Chaco - Is going to go slowly mad

Sabrar - Real Sabrar. I'd been wondering where he'd gone. Nice to finally see him again.

Dark Horse - Aggressive interrogating. I don't agree with his questions but he's leaving a thick paper trail if scum. - likely town

Malakandra - Too cool. But he did like my post calling out Laser for the town read, which means Mala was also sus of the easy town read, so Mala is town.

LaserGuy - Ligit mala analysis, slightly townie

Gorf - Sarcasm shield is slightly townie

Somitomi - Fry with his eyes squinting

Kary - Holding their cards close. But eyes open.

Wam - Minimal content is suspicious, but I'm willing to wait a bit to see what's under the surface.

Synchronicity - Obviously scummy. Policy yeet D2.

Frozen Flame - Hasn't played town in so long he's forgotten how to.

Pythag - Checked out. No reasoning for votes or attempts at reading anyone.

Vote FrozenFlame
Vote Pythag

 

[Chaco]

Why am I going to slowly go mad, BoomFrog ?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yes, it was the game after that one. Link here.

About half the players here I don't know at all or at least have never seen play as scum, so I don't really know. My impression is that this a very strong playerlist.

Okay well I just was surprised that you singled out Mala as dangerous in RVS but I guess it's probably null and just recency bias on your part.

I'm really liking somitomi's "all-snark all-the-time" this game. I also get townie vibes from him.

which posts give you townie vibes?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Is that meant as an ordered list BoomFrog ?
townie > scummy with town at the top?

 

[LaserGuy]

which posts give you townie vibes?

Mostly this bit:

Oh yeah, eliminating someone with zero interactions worked so well for town the last time. Definitely do that again.

I don't think it is particularly like that somitomi makes this kind of comment about his own recent scum game if he's scum again. somitomi's posting in Vanilla was also much more polished than what I'm seeing here.