There should be no more Smash games until something brand new is introduced

[MiniSara]

Am I the only one who felt that Smash 4 felt repetetive? I grew up with Brawl, but I've seen some of 64 and Melee as well. Melee was the huge graphical upgrade and Brawl was basically Melee filled with a lot more content.

Brawl felt complete to me. Smash 4 didn't really introduce anything new except 8 player matches. And honestly, how often do you manage to gather 7 friends to play with at the same place? This might be more common in Japan, but in the west I doubt many 8 player matches have taken place.

Also, the cut back on the graphics in order to have 8 players on screen at the same time. Smash 4 is one of the few Wii U games that runs at 1080p in 60fps. In order to achieve this, you can tell that the polygon count is very low, both for backgrounds and characters. Sure it's HD and the textures are better than Brawl, but the graphical difference is not even close to the difference between 64 and Melee. The character models in Smash 4 basically look the same as in Brawl, save for sharper textures and HD resolution.

The Smash Tour was a disaster. Compared to the meaty Subspace Emissary, Smash Tour was like a shallow party game and didn't take long to grow tired of. So in this sense, Smash 4 even felt like a step back from Brawl.

Also, Brawl had a huge amount of newly remixed music. Smash 4 largely just reused Brawl's musical assets.

It's very good they haven't released any Smash game on Switch. What would they do with it? More characters to make it even more unbalanced than Smash 4? Unless they come up with a brand new way to play Smash, I think we all had enough now, right? The greatest improvement between Brawl and Smash 4 was the online play. Brawl's online play practically didn't work, while Smash 4's online play mostly works like a charm.

Do you agree with me on this? Or do you want more Smash games, even if the only difference will be more characters (with worse balance) and better graphics?

 

[Frihetsanka]

Brawl felt complete to me.

I liked Brawl. When I got Smash Wii U I liked it so much more than Brawl and in a few months I had played more Smash Wii U than I had Brawl. I think Smash 4 is a much better paced game, with better balance, more interesting character, and better gameplay overall.

Smash 4 didn't really introduce anything new except 8 player matches.

The best entry in a series is often not the most original, but the one that best refines the gameplay. Super Mario World is fundamentally very similar to Super Mario Bros. 3, and Super Mario Bros. 3 is fairly similar to the original Super Mario Bros., yet both games are regarded as some of the best 2D platformers of all time. Smash Wii U introduced 16-21 new characters (depending if you count Lucina/Dark Pit/Miis), which greatly increased character variety (granted, three characters were dropped from Brawl).

And honestly, how often do you manage to gather 7 friends to play with at the same place? This might be more common in Japan, but in the west I doubt many 8 player matches have taken place.

You only really need to gather 4 friends in order to benefit (5 player). Granted, that probably doesn't happen very often either, but it's fun when it does.

The character models in Smash 4 basically look the same as in Brawl, save for sharper textures and HD resolution.

I'd say it looks better than Brawl, at least. Does it look great? No, definitely not, but it's fine. People still play Melee which looks a lot worse, after all. Graphics in fighting games aren't that important.

The Smash Tour was a disaster. Compared to the meaty Subspace Emissary, Smash Tour was like a shallow party game and didn't take long to grow tired of. So in this sense, Smash 4 even felt like a step back from Brawl.

I didn't like Subspace Emissary personally, so I don't really care much. The only really cool single player modes are, in my opinion, events, and Melee had the best events (and Adventure Mode in Melee was fun for a while, as were Break the Targets in Melee).

Also, Brawl had a huge amount of newly remixed music. Smash 4 largely just reused Brawl's musical assets.

How often do you really have time to listen to the music while playing Smash though? I suppose if you're watching other people play you could, but otherwise it might just distract you from the gameplay. Even then, you're wrong, Smash 4 added a great deal of new music, both remixes and original versions of the tracks.

More characters to make it even more unbalanced than Smash 4?

Smash 4 is, by far, the most balanced official Smash game. Brawl was a mess when it comes to balance, Melee was pretty much limited to the top 6-8 if you wanted to be competitive, and 64 is pretty centered around the top 3 or so as well.

Do you agree with me on this? Or do you want more Smash games, even if the only difference will be more characters (with worse balance) and better graphics?

I'd be fine if they mostly kept Smash 4 mechanics and changed the roster, yes. However, so far they haven't done so. The gameplay differences between Brawl and Smash 4 are pretty significant. Smash 4 has different ledge mechanics, it has rage, more hitstun, chain-grabs have been removed, the overall pace of the game is much faster than in Brawl (but slower than in Melee), and let's not forget that several characters had their movesets altered (poor ).

I personally think Smash 4 is a vast improvement over the previous titles, and I hope that the next game will be even better. I mostly care about multiplayer 1v1 with no items on, I should add.

 

[MiniSara]

I liked Brawl. When I got Smash Wii U I liked it so much more than Brawl and in a few months I had played more Smash Wii U than I had Brawl. I think Smash 4 is a much better paced game, with better balance, more interesting character, and better gameplay overall.

I would agree it's slightly better at everything, except how Smash 4 sexualized Samus's body (something that Brawl didn't). But my point was that it's not that much better if you look at content and such.

The best entry in a series is often not the most original, but the one that best refines the gameplay. Super Mario World is fundamentally very similar to Super Mario Bros. 3, and Super Mario Bros. 3 is fairly similar to the original Super Mario Bros., yet both games are regarded as some of the best 2D platformers of all time. Smash Wii U introduced 16-21 new characters (depending if you count Lucina/Dark Pit/Miis), which greatly increased character variety (granted, three characters were dropped from Brawl).

SMB3 introduced the world map and all of Mario's different powers, that was a huge change and the reason why SMB3 is so much more fun than SMB. SMW introduced Yoshi and secret exits, ghost houses and the P switches. The reason these two games are held in such high regard is because of the new features they introduced, not because the stage design was so much better than in SMB (because it wasn't). For example, the cover of SMB3 is dedicated to show off Mario's NEW flight ability.

You only really need to gather 4 friends in order to benefit (5 player). Granted, that probably doesn't happen very often either, but it's fun when it does.

Sure it's fun, but it never happens. Online is the way to go today, not local multiplayer.

I'd say it looks better than Brawl, at least. Does it look great? No, definitely not, but it's fine. People still play Melee which looks a lot worse, after all. Graphics in fighting games aren't that important.

Sure. Still, I couldn't help but feel disappointed when I first saw Smash 4. It was like Brawl HD with new textures, and together with very similar content, this made the game feel like deja vu to me.

I didn't like Subspace Emissary personally, so I don't really care much. The only really cool single player modes are, in my opinion, events, and Melee had the best events (and Adventure Mode in Melee was fun for a while, as were Break the Targets in Melee).

Fair enough, we just have different opinions here.

How often do you really have time to listen to the music while playing Smash though? I suppose if you're watching other people play you could, but otherwise it might just distract you from the gameplay. Even then, you're wrong, Smash 4 added a great deal of new music, both remixes and original versions of the tracks.

I listen to it all the time! The right track can get my blood boiling, the "meh" track can make me lose concentration. And Smash 4 added very few brand new remixes or songs compared to Brawl.

Smash 4 is, by far, the most balanced official Smash game. Brawl was a mess when it comes to balance, Melee was pretty much limited to the top 6-8 if you wanted to be competitive, and 64 is pretty centered around the top 3 or so as well.

Was Brawl really that much of a mess if you just banned Meta Knight? Also, Smash 4 relies too much on zoning/reach. If you play like a coward (which you are rewarded for doing) and just keep zoning your opponent, all the Fire Emblem characters have great advantages because of the long reach and quick draw (very few frames before their attack hit after being executed).

I'd be fine if they mostly kept Smash 4 mechanics and changed the roster, yes. However, so far they haven't done so. The gameplay differences between Brawl and Smash 4 are pretty significant. Smash 4 has different ledge mechanics, it has rage, more hitstun, chain-grabs have been removed, the overall pace of the game is much faster than in Brawl (but slower than in Melee), and let's not forget that several characters had their movesets altered (poor ).

Perhaps our different viewpoints is because you're a pro at this game and note small details, while I'm not a pro and I don't think more hitstun and such is worthy of a brand new sequel. Just update the current game with stuff like that. Plus Dedede is still deadly, but not because of chain grabs.

I personally think Smash 4 is a vast improvement over the previous titles, and I hope that the next game will be even better. I mostly care about multiplayer 1v1 with no items on, I should add.

Yeah, exactly. You're a pro player, that's why you pay so much attention to small details.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I for one think Smash 4 was a huge improvement. With 66 characters, 55 stages, the absence of random tripping, etc... there's enough content here to keep me coming back. But that's not to say the three predecessors are wallflowers since I play Melee and Brawl just as often (though I haven't played the original one for a while now).

I'd like for there to be another Smash game, to be honest. I merely delectate in playing multiplayer with Pokèballs and Assist Trophies myself. Also I like learning about the games' more complex nuances.

Edit: I've been ruminating over this for a while and I think there should not be another Smash game inasmuch as Smash 4 has been released on two different consoles and also since it has quite a massive selection of stages, characters, etc. But I still love Smash anyway. With that said, let's see what happens from here...

 

[HerbsnSpices910]

I disagree.

Smash 64 was the original game - the concept of a percentage-based platformer-fighting game was brand new, but the game was still rough around the edges.

Melee fixed 64's shortcomings and was basically Sakurai's initial vision of the game with extensive combat options. Super glitchy though owing to a short development period.

Brawl improved the 1 Player experience but introduced poorly received mechanics such as overall slower movement and tripping etc. Basically a more casual experience overall.

3DS/WiiU fixed these issues without returning to the (beautiful) glitchfest we call Melee and removed mechanics such as edgehogging, re-introduced mechanics such as pivoting and is overall a much better experience aesthetically due to better character sizing and just being more colourful. They essentially fine-tuned everything fed back to them after Brawl's release.

The best way to improve artistically is to take what you've done before and build on it. That's pretty much exactly what has happened up until now.

Musically, SSB4 does exactly the same thing. It takes what it had and brings back the best of it and adds even more - twice as much actually. The full OST is like 16 hours long - that's A LOT of fantastic music. It's not like we're being short-changed there.

Also, SSB4 is without a doubt the single most balanced Smash game you can buy.

Melee will always be my favourite game just because of it's charm, soul and aura. But in terms of content and quality, the Smash games just keep improving.

 

[origamiscienceguy]

I hope they give the local multiplayer experience of SSB4, compined with the solo/coop experience of Brawl, and drastically ovrerhaul the online experience.

 

[MercuryPenny]

Was Brawl really that much of a mess if you just banned Meta Knight?

you still have to deal with the ice climbers (yay for chaingrab infinites!), and even then the game's balance is significantly worse than melee. characters who can't camp or control the stage as well as olimar, falco, and snake and characters who don't have the explosive offense and inescapable "combos" of falco, marth, dedede, diddy kong can't keep up. characters also lived easily until 150% and it took forever to get there unless your character had an easy 40% chaingrab or an infinite, which the vast majority of characters don't have.

though, to be honest, when smash 4 came out it was literally just brawl 2.0 with the absolutely abysmal balancing problems, utterly pathetic shieldstun, and ridiculous jank everywhere. the game is definitely a lot better after the 2 years of balance patches

 

[tricksta616]

Brawl felt complete to me. Smash 4 didn't really introduce anything new except 8 player matches. And honestly, how often do you manage to gather 7 friends to play with at the same place? This might be more common in Japan, but in the west I doubt many 8 player matches have taken place.​

I'd say smash 4 brought a healthy amount to the table. they fixed most of the janky garbage from brawl, rebalanced it, and added a fat load of more characters, a lot of which have really unique playstyles compared to those in brawl. Also, in my opinion the main thing a new smash game brings to the table is the newcomer roster. Theres a reason there are more smash 5 character predictions threads than smash 5 "new tech" threads, and that's because characters are the perfect mix of hype and meta-influential, and in this regard smash 4 did amazing imo. smash 4 also took the stickers concept from brawl and totally polished it into the customization system. I think custom moves and stats are a ****ing amazing addition, casually, and hopefully competitively one day :'^). I also found the first sentence really funny because I feel the exact opposite. Brawl felt like a hot glitchy mess to me, but I digress.

Also, the cut back on the graphics in order to have 8 players on screen at the same time. Smash 4 is one of the few Wii U games that runs at 1080p in 60fps. In order to achieve this, you can tell that the polygon count is very low, both for backgrounds and characters. Sure it's HD and the textures are better than Brawl, but the graphical difference is not even close to the difference between 64 and Melee. The character models in Smash 4 basically look the same as in Brawl, save for sharper textures and HD resolution.​

I really disagree with this one. The graphics on smash 4 are totally different than brawl stylistically. Sure link and mario are wearing the same costumes but the uncomfortably gritty details in brawl, (the obnoxiously detailed stitching on mario's overalls comes to mind) were traded in for a lighter, more cartoonish approach, and along with the new lighting and coloring, I think it looks wayyy better than brawl, and much more fitting to the series. Also the hit effects look great in smash 4, much more stylized and finished than the gray blobs that brawl put out.

The Smash Tour was a disaster. Compared to the meaty Subspace Emissary, Smash Tour was like a shallow party game and didn't take long to grow tired of. So in this sense, Smash 4 even felt like a step back from Brawl.
Also, Brawl had a huge amount of newly remixed music. Smash 4 largely just reused Brawl's musical assets.​

I totally agree with this point. **** smash tour. the 3ds equivalent is pretty fun, but wouldn't compare to a new subspace emissary mode.

It's very good they haven't released any Smash game on Switch. What would they do with it? More characters to make it even more unbalanced than Smash 4? Unless they come up with a brand new way to play Smash, I think we all had enough now, right?​

Despite disagreeing with you on most points here, I actually wholeheartedly agree with this (which is funny because its the whole point of your post lol) but yeah smash 5 now would suck. they would have to reimplement gamecube controller support, there would be a whole debate about which iteration would be the tournament standard, and the new additions could not possibly be influential enough to warrant what would probably delay the next new generation of smash for a good couple of years. Smash 4 needs some time to settle, and imo the best time to release a new game would be the end of its competitive lifetime, so evo can cycle in a new game, kinda like what happened with sfv but not terrible.

Also idk how to quote posts yet, sorry abt formatting :'^)

 

[Ad3n]

I feel like if Brawl just had a balanced roster it would be a 10x better game

 

[Dawn111]

I feel like if Brawl just had a balanced roster it would be a 10x better game

There's Project M

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EDIT: On topic, I don't think there should be another Smash game either unless there's a completely new mechanic. That said, I so agree with Frihetsanka that Smash 4 is a big improvement over Brawl, because Brawl is easily the most unbalanced Smash game that Nintendo has released, while Smash 4 has a much character variety without having any character that is so dominated. The only things that Smash 4 needs to improve as far as I know is that there should be an option to turn the bad hazards off for all the stages. There's Omega Mode, but it's just the mode that turns all of the stages into Final Destination clones with different themes.

 

[Crystanium]

Oh, boy!

Am I the only one who felt that Smash 4 felt repetetive?

Probably not.

I grew up with Brawl, but I've seen some of 64 and Melee as well.

Brawl isn't a good game, so let's just get that out of the way. It's great that you got into the series anyway.

Melee was the huge graphical upgrade and Brawl was basically Melee filled with a lot more content.

Melee was, for its time. Brawl was nothing like Melee. It was just filled with more content. I did like the Sub-Space Emissary.

Brawl felt complete to me. Smash 4 didn't really introduce anything new except 8 player matches.

It also got rid of tripping. It balanced out what Brawl could only dream of. It offered combos, which was desperately lacking in Brawl. It provided viable characters on the roster, where Brawl and Melee failed. Yes, I find Sm4sh to be better than Melee, and it's not because I hate Melee.

And honestly, how often do you manage to gather 7 friends to play with at the same place?

I'm sure tourney goers can chime in on this question. It doesn't matter to me, though. Making it possible to play with 8 characters on screen isn't the reason I enjoy Sm4sh.

This might be more common in Japan, but in the west I doubt many 8 player matches have taken place.

Oh, that's what you meant. Well, I don't know. You might be right. Not that it matters to the majority of fans, which consist of those who play competitively.

Also, the cut back on the graphics in order to have 8 players on screen at the same time. Smash 4 is one of the few Wii U games that runs at 1080p in 60fps. In order to achieve this, you can tell that the polygon count is very low, both for backgrounds and characters. Sure it's HD and the textures are better than Brawl, but the graphical difference is not even close to the difference between 64 and Melee. The character models in Smash 4 basically look the same as in Brawl, save for sharper textures and HD resolution.

I disagree that Sm4sh character models look basically the same as in Brawl with sharper textures and HD resolution. In fact, Samus would like to have a word with you. I think Link might want to speak to you, too. The changes are subtle to some extent, but I find your assertion baseless. But that's beside the point because graphics don't make a game great, and I'm sure you know this. If you do know this, then your argument is disingenuous. Otherwise, **** Melee.

The Smash Tour was a disaster.

Never played it. Don't care, and I'm willing to bet the majority of competitors don't, either.

Compared to the meaty Subspace Emissary, Smash Tour was like a shallow party game and didn't take long to grow tired of. So in this sense, Smash 4 even felt like a step back from Brawl.

Either you're the same person who made that opinion thread, or you people are coming out of the woodwork to give us all a laugh.

Also, Brawl had a huge amount of newly remixed music. Smash 4 largely just reused Brawl's musical assets.

No one plays Sm4sh to listen to music.

It's very good they haven't released any Smash game on Switch. What would they do with it?

Hopefully nothing, except maybe a few additional buffs for a character like Samus. That'd be nice.

More characters to make it even more unbalanced than Smash 4?

I doubt it, but here's what's interesting. Of all the SSB games, Sm4sh has the most characters on the roster and is the most balanced. I'm sure if Nintendo decided to add maybe two extra characters, they could balance out the characters.

Unless they come up with a brand new way to play Smash, I think we all had enough now, right?

When you make a statement and end it off with a question like "right?", you let out a bit of uncertainty about your position. I disagree with you, obviously. So no, I think you and a minority of players who prefer a game made for casual players are the ones who have had enough. But I suspect the demand for competitive gaming outweighs the demand for casual gaming.

The greatest improvement between Brawl and Smash 4 was the online play. Brawl's online play practically didn't work, while Smash 4's online play mostly works like a charm.

Of course. And they made For Glory, dedicated to players who actually want to fight other players who are also interested in competitive gaming. That's the best thing to receive from a well-known company. It tells us that Nintendo was listening.

Do you agree with me on this? Or do you want more Smash games, even if the only difference will be more characters (with worse balance) and better graphics?

Admittedly, I'd like fewer characters. 50+ is a lot, and I'm sure everyone enjoys the diversity. I do, but I don't play the majority of the roster. I only use Samus, Zamus, and Mario. But that's just my opinion. There's clearly a lot of players out there who enjoy the characters they use, and I'm in no position to take that from them.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

Am I the only one who felt that Smash 4 felt repetetive? I grew up with Brawl, but I've seen some of 64 and Melee as well. Melee was the huge graphical upgrade and Brawl was basically Melee filled with a lot more content.

Here's what I feel about smash 4, It's repetitive because the only fun thing to to is battle, almost exactly like smash 64 (except in smash 64, there was break the targets and board the platforms.) Melee was pretty much the same concept as smash 64, but held a much more balanced roster, fast and quick gameplay, and much more content to fill hours of your time into, like All Star, events, 13 more characters, more stages, extra modes, home run contest, trophies, tourney mode, special smash, etc. Brawl is exactly like melee in a sense, but with much more content, collectibles, and much larger roster and great Subspace story (Adventure mode in a sense), however the gameplay was greatly reduced to something similar to smash 64, but maybe a bit lower. I feel as if Project M fixes that problem of brawl that greatly improves it.

Brawl felt complete to me. Smash 4 didn't really introduce anything new except 8 player matches. And honestly, how often do you manage to gather 7 friends to play with at the same place?

Technically, Melee started the 8-player battles and is powerful enough to run it, but the gamecube only supported 4 controllers, and I don't think they had the LAN port out or it yet to support that option. It became semi-unused, but It's still used in the game for 100 man melee. Smash 4 only had the ability for people to have actual 8-player battles. As for the friend gathering, it's simple (local tournaments).

The Smash Tour was a disaster. Compared to the meaty Subspace Emissary, Smash Tour was like a shallow party game and didn't take long to grow tired of. So in this sense, Smash 4 even felt like a step back from Brawl.

This bugs me so much, and it's not only smash tour! Things I hated were Classic Mode (Wii U), Target Blast, and Street smash with Smash Run on 3DS. They just... Don't work. (3DS classic mode was fine... I did like the option to choose a difficulty path for any intensity instead of a difficulty selection on the past 3 games). Adventure mode would have been great here, but Sakurai ruined it because of how people post the cutscenes for the adventure online. I don't blame him there, however he should expect that all of that WILL happen eventually regardless!

It's very good they haven't released any Smash game on Switch. What would they do with it? More characters to make it even more unbalanced than Smash 4? Unless they come up with a brand new way to play Smash, I think we all had enough now, right? The greatest improvement between Brawl and Smash 4 was the online play. Brawl's online play practically didn't work, while Smash 4's online play mostly works like a charm.

I would like to believe here that if they were to release a new smash game, they need to let go a few. Clones like lucina or Dr. Mario unless they decide to actually DO that like they did for the koopalings. An idea I had if they're gonna over-release more charaters is go the Marvel vs Capcom route and choose more than one character to fight as. (Like, pick both Mario and Mega Man for one fight), but you still have an option to pick only one character or have the second character come in after a set manount of stocks. And make custom moves more accessible and available at the start, give the player more freedom with choices on how to fight their opponent!

Do you agree with me on this? Or do you want more Smash games, even if the only difference will be more characters (with worse balance) and better graphics?

I just want to get this off my chest: Graphics-wise, in smash 4, I like how cartoonish it is, and I feel like it fits within nintendo... However I kind of like how Melee's graphics were realistic-looking, but not too much like brawl. I agree on not releasing one just yet. They should take their time to develop a new well-made smash game that would possibly be as great as melee. heck, I feel like they should make TWO for the switch. One for the switch alone, and one that should release in 2019 specifically. Why 2019? 2019 is the year that marks the 20th anniversary of smash, and I feel like they should attempt to make a combo pack of Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl (maybe updated) all in 1, or Smash 64 and melee in 1. If that is a bit much to handle, I think they should bundle old modes/features/stages/models/menus/sounds/trophies/etc. from the previous versions and place them in the new and release that in 2019. Sorry I got carried away on this piece, but there was nowhere else to express these ideas from what I could find...