Theoretically developing a ruleset designed around customs + equipment being legal.

[Prawn]

Where does one begin? In your mind are there any moves or equipment that should be out right banned?

This isn't to discuss why these things shouldn't be legal as a whole, it's assuming that they are.

Should someone be held to a set for an entire tournament? Or should the players double blind equipment and moves before every game?

Should equipment have to balance the stats out or should we allow stats to be changed to the players wants?

 

[SilverhandX]

I'm really not sure what would make equipment work. I haven't seen any custom moves that I'd have a problem with, I think it'd be fine if they were all legal, the only issue there is tournaments having them unlocked. As far as equipment goes, the stats on items seem to be somewhat random, and once you get higher end equipment there are some pretty ridiculous results if you go all in on one stat.

 

[Cheezy23]

If equipment were legal, I'd say any equipment that makes you do anything out of the ordinary I.E exploding on perfect blocks or healing after attacking, or any equipment that gives any items at the start should be banned. Otherwise, I'd say maybe just make it so you can only have a total stat boost of 150 or something so it's an even playing field.

Custom moves are different, because while they have different properties, they don't have as many variables in terms of stats, and if an opponent uses the same set, you can still counter them. I'd like to think that they're all balanced, but if people are finding on overpowered, I wouldn't see a problem with banning it, I think it makes it better than banning a character as a whole.

 

[san.]

I think equipment can be feasible by allowing only 1 piece of equipment and capping positive stat gains at an arbitrary number like +50 and a ratio of stat gains:losses of no greater than 2:1 without abilities and 1:2 with an them. This cuts out excessive RNG grind for miniscule advantages.

Many abilities are way too strong when stacked with anything else, but aren't that overpowering by themselves, especially for gimmicky defensive boosts. I think that once more than 1 piece of equipment is allowed, you have to ban and regulate many more broken aspects.

Only a few abilities are plain broken by themselves such as damage/defense multipliers and critical hits being so much more objectively better than everything else. Gimmicky stuff are mostly useless without ability stacking.

 

[Prawn]

I think equipment can be feasible by allowing only 1 piece of equipment and capping positive stat gains at an arbitrary number like +50 and a ratio of stat gains:losses of no greater than 2:1 without abilities and 1:2 with an them. This cuts out excessive RNG grind for miniscule advantages.

Many abilities are way too strong when stacked with anything else, but aren't that overpowering by themselves, especially for gimmicky defensive boosts. I think that once more than 1 piece of equipment is allowed, you have to ban and regulate many more broken aspects.

Only a few abilities are plain broken by themselves such as damage/defense multipliers and critical hits being so much more objectively better than everything else. Gimmicky stuff are mostly useless without ability stacking.

One piece of equipment only is a really cool idea I haven't heard before.

 

[Prawn]

Currently looking to attain a venue so that I could host a tournament with one equipment and custom moves legal. I feel strongly that we may be writing all of this off too early and that stuff like landing lag cancels could make the game go in an entirely new and more exciting direction.


Think it's important to remember that at a time items were legal in melee, and that every game is different and anything that could potentially make the game more exciting and interesting is worth looking into.

I've been farming for equipment a lot in my spare time and I really think the limit of one piece of equipment could work. I realize people who haven't taken time to find good equipment are at a disadvantage but I just want to try out this format to see if they gameplay is any more or less exciting

 

[Balgorxz]

just make easy rules for the first tournaments, I now I will since I'll be hosting some in my country.
example
only 2 available builds
every character in my wii u has 2 possible builds SLSP characters (smooth lander + super speed badge) and SLSP+ characters (smooth lander + rare speed badge) depending if someone wants to sacrifice some power for speed, anyways so far everything seems ok here.

 

[Prawn]

I feel like the gimmicky equipment isn't good on it's own(like San said) if someone wants to heal after every ko be my guest.

Still a lot of logistics to figure out for sure though

 

[Terotrous]

Honestly, I think the only way to run an Equipment tournament is anything goes. No matter what you do, it's going to be shenanigans. Might as well at least give the highest possible chance for people to find counters.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Smooth Lander seems to be a piece of equipment a lot of people want, and is automatically unlocked once you've gotten all custom moves. It would be pretty easy to have a Smooth Lander meta with a cap of +40-50 in terms of cumulative boosts. I'm not sure how everything else would work out, but that seems to be a quick and easy way to get started with an equipment meta.

 

[Prawn]

Honestly, I think the only way to run an Equipment tournament is anything goes. No matter what you do, it's going to be shenanigans. Might as well at least give the highest possible chance for people to find counters.

This is how I feel

 

[Quillion]

Hey, we choose stages AND characters as counterpicks. Why can't we do that for custom? We just let both players play vanilla at first, and then the loser gets to pick a custom build for counter.

 

[Cosmo!]

Honestly, I think the only way to run an Equipment tournament is anything goes. No matter what you do, it's going to be shenanigans. Might as well at least give the highest possible chance for people to find counters.

Yeah I think if customs+equipment is on you might as well go all out and let it rock. I haven't seen any meta developed for this type of gameplay other than some funny shenanigans like having a ton of speed on Sonic. But as for actually winning and creating powerful characters I think nobody has really tested this enough.

 

[Revan_23]

The default equipment set up should be this. This set up literally takes 6 minutes to get and is barely noticeable when playing. You get the smooth lander badge when you unlock all custom moves. Everyone gets a default agility badge and protection badge when they first buy the game. All three badges are NOT randomized. It all comes out to be +22 attack -14 defense +7 speed. It's the same for everyone even on different consoles.

http://i.imgur.com/RFzgG4U.jpg

 

[Terotrous]

The default equipment set up should be this. This set up literally takes 6 minutes to get and is barely noticeable when playing. You get the smooth lander badge when you unlock all custom moves. Everyone gets a default agility badge and protection badge when they first buy the game. All three badges are NOT randomized. It all comes out to be +22 attack -14 defense +7 speed. It's the same for everyone even on different consoles.

http://i.imgur.com/RFzgG4U.jpg

That's not "equipment being legal", though. That's "smooth lander being legal while having as little impact on the rest of the game as possible", which is really more of a different topic.

 

[DunnoBro]

Another idea: Aren't there other set equipment drops via events, and accomplishments with set stat effects?

I think just those being legal is a valid route too. We'd also have a smaller, easier to work with pool and bans would be easier to see.

 

[popsofctown]

I still think copying Sealed from MtG is the best way to implement an equipment tournament. Everyone plays a little bit of single player at the beginning of the tournament, and the equipment they get from that is registered as the only equipment they can use for the rest of the tournament. No one feels compelled to grind before the tournament because they aren't allowed to use anything they get before the tournament.

You'd probably want a couple TO dses to implement that. You can download everyone's setups to one or two dses, and then upload those from the dses to every setup. Takes a bit of time but then you're set for the rest of the tournament.

 

[T0MMY]

Where does one begin?

Well, I wrote a guide with a lot of what I've dug up in my years of competitive musings which cover the foundation of all things competitive in Smash, so have a go at it:
http://smashboards.com/guides/competitive-philosophy-for-super-smash-bros.91/

 

[guedes the brawler]

i think enforcing a cap on how much you could get on each stat and banning certain abilities like spawing with items, invincibilty shenanigans and such... is what i'd do

 

[Gatoray]

I have always agreed with what @ Cosmo! and @ Terotrous are saying. If you are going to do a tournament with equipment + customs, it has to be an unadulterated crapshoot of anything goes. However, I don't think having an in-person tournament with equipment is viable, I think we should save this format for online tournaments. I have an idea for a way an online equipment tournament could run:

• Register online using a form that allows the player to pre-register 6 to 8 custom builds, these can be for 1 character or split across several characters (This cuts down on the time it takes for someone to make their builds in-person during the tournament).
• Upon starting the tournament, the list of builds will be released for everyone to see. The list should number the builds attached to each entrant for easy reference.
• When starting a game, the first pick is a double blind. Before entering the game both players must communicate their chosen character and build number (that corresponds to the number on the spreadsheet) to the opponent. This allows each player to know what they're getting into before they start.
• The winner of that match can choose to switch their build and must communicate their build to the opponent. Then the loser can counterpick their build and must also communicate the build number. Loser picks stage.
• Sudden death may or may not be played out, since some equipment bonuses cater to sudden death. This may encourage stalling though, so probably not.
• Any players that are found to be using builds that are unregistered or giving false information about the builds they are using will be DQed and permanently banned from any future tournaments. A lot of what makes this work relies on the honor system, and violators will not be tolerated.

I'm open to suggestions/critique.

 

[Balgorxz]

I have always agreed with what @ Cosmo! and @ Terotrous are saying. If you are going to do a tournament with equipment + customs, it has to be an unadulterated crapshoot of anything goes. However, I don't think having an in-person tournament with equipment is viable, I think we should save this format for online tournaments. I have an idea for a way an online equipment tournament could run:

• Register online using a form that allows the player to pre-register 6 to 8 custom builds, these can be for 1 character or split across several characters (This cuts down on the time it takes for someone to make their builds in-person during the tournament).
• Upon starting the tournament, the list of builds will be released for everyone to see. The list should number the builds attached to each entrant for easy reference.
• When starting a game, the first pick is a double blind. Before entering the game both players must communicate their chosen character and build number (that corresponds to the number on the spreadsheet) to the opponent. This allows each player to know what they're getting into before they start.
• The winner of that match can choose to switch their build and must communicate their build to the opponent. Then the loser can counterpick their build and must also communicate the build number. Loser picks stage.
• Sudden death may or may not be played out, since some equipment bonuses cater to sudden death. This may encourage stalling though, so probably not.
• Any players that are found to be using builds that are unregistered or giving false information about the builds they are using will be DQed and permanently banned from any future tournaments. A lot of what makes this work relies on the honor system, and violators will not be tolerated.

I'm open to suggestions/critique.

6 - 8 customs builds are too much for global equipments builds, I'd start with 4 builds at most.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

I'm very much in favor of "anything goes", and that means I think exploding perfect shield and home run bats are A okay.

The only way I think this would be reasonable is to have best of 5 to give people a realistic chance to get a read on their opponent, as well as restrictions to the number of builds you are allowed to bring in to a match up. I personally would keep it very low (say, 2) so by the 3rd match you've had ample opportunity to read your opponent.

 

[Gatoray]

6 - 8 customs builds are too much for global equipments builds, I'd start with 4 builds at most.

What do you mean by "global equipment"? My proposal isn't to have the only builds be global equipment only, character specific equipment is allowed.

 

[Balgorxz]

What do you mean by "global equipment"? My proposal isn't to have the only builds be global equipment only, character specific equipment is allowed.

global equipments are badgelike equipments that can be used for everyone, my proposal its for the first tournaments only allow global equipments since they are easy to unlock and use.

 

[Gatoray]

global equipments are badgelike equipments that can be used for everyone, my proposal its for the first tournaments only allow global equipments since they are easy to unlock and use.

But don't they unlock at the same rate as all other equipment? And when a player plays their favorite characters in single player modes, there is a higher chance of gaining that's character's equipment. That allows people to farm equipment for their mains.

 

[Cosmo!]

If this format takes place online there's really no reason to restrict the equipment set at all. People can put together whatever builds they want before the tournament and you don't need everything unlocked on one system as its up to the player to have their builds ready.