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Legend of Zelda The Worth of "Quality" Gaming (opinions will be had)

MuraRengan

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Recently, Guiness had a poll for the best game series of all time. With about 13,000 votes counted, Zelda lost to Halo and CoD, taking third place.

I still annoys me that Zelda, which had been a gaming icon years before both of these titles, could lose out to two FPS's. However this was a poll, and people's opinions will be what they are.

However the principle of the matter still stands: Zelda should never have lost to CoD or Halo because their fame came only through multiplayer, which takes far less effort in creating a game that people will play. Zelda achieved what both those series did without the aid of multiplayer long before either of those titles were on the map because of the effort put into making the game a "quality" gaming experience.

So I took the matter to one of my friends, and we discussed it. He's a rather new gamer (first console was PS2,) and he defended Halo and CoD's worth as "quality" games. His position is that the quality in those games is in the innovative implementations of the multiplayer, and that, as a whole, games that survive on multiplayer should not be discounted in consideration of "quality" gameplay.

I still disagree with this and feel that the Zelda series and other non-multiplayer based series which are acclaimed as great games (Metroid, MGS, FF, ToSeries, etc.) should always take priority over multiplayer FPS's when it comes to what a good game is. What games like this do is appeal to a part of the person that is on a more personal level. For all FPS's, the enjoyment is always associated with other people, there is nothing to personally enjoy.

To that point, he brought up the GTA series, to which I replied that the series garners most of it's attention though childish desires to go on rampages and such, not actual attention to the story. He disagreed saying that there is a large portion of people who play GTA for the story.

Even still, the topic is up to one's preference. I'd like to see what other people feel about this. It seems to me that true quality is going to the wayside.
 

Spire

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Well isn't it obvious what needs to be done? Add a robust multiplayer mode to future Zelda games (co-op anyone?) and it'll take the crown. For the record, Zelda Wii has been voted the most anticipated game of E3 over the likes of Gears of War 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops, etc.

Nicely written post though.
 

SkylerOcon

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Well, I dunno. The problem with CoD and Halo winning is that they aren't even the best FPS games of all time. I think that most gamers (gamers that have more than just an X-Box and play more than just brown games with muscle men shouting angrily - real gamers, in other words) would give that crown to Half-Life, or maybe Team Fortress. Multiplayer is an important part of gaming now, and I think it's okay for something to win for amazing multiplayer...

Just, CoD and Halo won off of their hype train. This is why voting lists are never good, and to truly gauge the best of all time, you have to get all the brightest minds in the industry to come together and discuss.
 

X1-12

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Perhaps it is only me but I would rather play Timesplitters(2 or 3) than CoD or Halo, perhaps it is the difference between watching slap-stick comedy violence and actually killing someone..
 

Kingdom Come

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Dude, people are ****ing *******ses I always get into arguments and fistfights cause people say dumb **** like "Zelda is about an elf boy with a fairy". You don't know how many times I've ****ed somebody up for saying that. Halo and CoD are so freaking repetitive it's not even fun for maybe a few hours online. Then, people are like no you just suck. Then I whoop there *** and take their money at the game mentioned. I hate *******. To the guys who play nothing but FPS they think Nintendo=Children. The Wii is better than the 360.
 

Tacel

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I guess most people would rather shoot and explode people with their friends than play through a well though out, unique, and creative story mode.
That's sad.
 

Spire

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Dude, people are ****ing *******ses I always get into arguments and fistfights cause people say dumb **** like "Zelda is about an elf boy with a fairy".
Are you kidding me? Gamers define what quality gaming is and the example you've set shows a cowardly, paranoid fanatic, which completely goes against MuraRengan's OP. He's suggesting that the Zelda series upholds a fanbase of intellectual individuals, yet you represent that small percentage of uptight barbarians who protect a series of video games with their lives. That's unhealthy.
 

finalark

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I remember seeing that in Guiness 2010 Gamer's Ed. a few months ago and shaking my head. Call me old school, but Zelda >>> Halo and CoD, and this is comming from someone who loves Halo (but not CoD). Now, a few thing in your post that I feel like I need to adress....


I still annoys me that Zelda, which had been a gaming icon years before both of these titles, could lose out to two FPS's. However this was a poll, and people's opinions will be what they are.
Zelda may be an icon of gaming, but icon is a word that gets thrown around meaninglessly to making nostalgia-filled gamers sound inteligent. Now, the thing with Halo is that it's been around for only nine years and has comparitively evolved quite a bit compaired to Zelda. Zelda has been around for close to thirty years now and game play-wise, feels pretty much the same. But despite this, I'd still have to say that I've gotten equal collective enjoyment out of both franchises. So it's a tie for me.

However the principle of the matter still stands: Zelda should never have lost to CoD or Halo because their fame came only through multiplayer, which takes far less effort in creating a game that people will play. Zelda achieved what both those series did without the aid of multiplayer long before either of those titles were on the map because of the effort put into making the game a "quality" gaming experience.
I don't agree with everything said, but I agree with the overall statement.

So I took the matter to one of my friends, and we discussed it. He's a rather new gamer (first console was PS2,) and he defended Halo and CoD's worth as "quality" games. His position is that the quality in those games is in the innovative implementations of the multiplayer, and that, as a whole, games that survive on multiplayer should not be discounted in consideration of "quality" gameplay.
Your friend needs to go back and play older games to get more veriety in what I am sure is an FPS-stained carreer.

I still disagree with this and feel that the Zelda series and other non-multiplayer based series which are acclaimed as great games (Metroid, MGS, FF, ToSeries, etc.) should always take priority over multiplayer FPS's when it comes to what a good game is. What games like this do is appeal to a part of the person that is on a more personal level. For all FPS's, the enjoyment is always associated with other people, there is nothing to personally enjoy.
I have to disagree a bit here. Then again, this comes from some personal taste so prepare for an opinion bomb.

I personally think that people underrated many campaigns and need to pay more attention to that rather than mutliplayer. I really enjoyed Halo 1 and 2's campaigns (haven't played 3 yet), and I'm curious to know what you mean by "personal level." Do you mean that they make the player care about the story and characters? Because ToS, a number of the FFs and some parts of MGS really do a bad job at that.

To put it bluntly, I don't see what makes enjoying a "personal" game better than a social one.

To that point, he brought up the GTA series, to which I replied that the series garners most of it's attention though childish desires to go on rampages and such, not actual attention to the story. He disagreed saying that there is a large portion of people who play GTA for the story.
I disagree with you, I don't know much about GTA but other Rock Star games I've played were written pretty well.

Even still, the topic is up to one's preference. I'd like to see what other people feel about this. It seems to me that true quality is going to the wayside.
So I'll sum up my thoughts like this: I agree that Zelda >>> Halo and CoD but I disagree with some of your thoughts.
 

Kingdom Come

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Are you kidding me?
I don't remember telling any jokes.

Gamers define what quality gaming is and the example you've set shows a cowardly, paranoid fanatic, which completely goes against MuraRengan's OP.
I think not.


He's suggesting that the Zelda series upholds a fanbase of intellectual individuals, yet you represent that small percentage of uptight barbarians who protect a series of video games with their lives. That's unhealthy.
It's not unhealthy. Beating the **** out of people who have no clue what the hell they are talking about is what they should deserve. I'm not a barbarian either. I'm not protecting anything with my life. I try to prove a point and people take what I say about as seriously as a 3 year old. So I beat the **** outta them so they wont **** with me. I'm not crazy or anything. MMA, Boxing, Football I'm in great fighting shape.
 

SkylerOcon

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Actually, one might argue that you're in poor psychological health because MMA, boxing, and football all train you to react to situations in violent and potentially harmful ways...

But ignoring that.

What Finlark said pretty much true for me too. I enjoy a round of Halo every once in a while, and you can't really truly say what's better between a personal and a social game. I'll always remember LBP because of how awesome it is to play that with other people, but at the same time, I'll always remember games like Final Fantasy for the story.
 

Clownbot

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Dude, people are ****ing *******ses I always get into arguments and fistfights cause people say dumb **** like "Zelda is about an elf boy with a fairy". You don't know how many times I've ****ed somebody up for saying that. Halo and CoD are so freaking repetitive it's not even fun for maybe a few hours online. Then, people are like no you just suck. Then I whoop there *** and take their money at the game mentioned. I hate *******. To the guys who play nothing but FPS they think Nintendo=Children. The Wii is better than the 360.
No offense but that's a tad... extreme.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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I don't remember telling any jokes.



I think not.




It's not unhealthy. Beating the **** out of people who have no clue what the hell they are talking about is what they should deserve. I'm not a barbarian either. I'm not protecting anything with my life. I try to prove a point and people take what I say about as seriously as a 3 year old. So I beat the **** outta them so they wont **** with me. I'm not crazy or anything. MMA, Boxing, Football I'm in great fighting shape.

Are you okay >.>. And yes, your post below I agree the Wii has better systemonly games. This is why, though. Nintendo was smart and made 10+ System only games back in the day. Sony/Microsoft do not have that many. Fortunately for Nintendo almost all of them are very successful.

It's based on what you want, game wise (the fps vs adventure thing) and honestly, I dislike FPS outside of Metroid which is FPA. Yet still, being a PS fanboy, I think Killzone looks cooler. XD
 

Luigitoilet

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I don't remember telling any jokes.



I think not.




It's not unhealthy. Beating the **** out of people who have no clue what the hell they are talking about is what they should deserve. I'm not a barbarian either. I'm not protecting anything with my life. I try to prove a point and people take what I say about as seriously as a 3 year old. So I beat the **** outta them so they wont **** with me. I'm not crazy or anything. MMA, Boxing, Football I'm in great fighting shape.
ok this is hilarious, but...

Actually, one might argue that you're in poor psychological health because MMA, boxing, and football all train you to react to situations in violent and potentially harmful ways...

But ignoring that.
this is very, very stupid and not even funny to make up for it
 

Kingdom Come

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I'm like totally ignoring LuigiToilet the nickname LT has been revoked.

@Shimazu. Thank god you understand where I am coming from. Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Earthbound, Super Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, Wario Ware, F-Zero, etc.

While the Xbox only has Halo, Assasin's Creed, Skate, Gears of War, Left 4 Dead. I can't think of anything else.

Sony has God of War, Killzone, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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I'm like totally ignoring LuigiToilet the nickname LT has been revoked.

@Shimazu. Thank god you understand where I am coming from. Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, Earthbound, Super Smash Bros., Fire Emblem, Wario Ware, F-Zero, etc.

While the Xbox only has Halo, Assasin's Creed is on both systems, Skate, Gears of War, Left 4 Dead. I can't think of anything else.

Sony has God of War, Killzone, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank.
Agreed and fixed. I'm a Sony/Nintendo Fanboy, sue me. >_>
 

Ryu Shimazu

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It must be incredibly stupid, because essays and studies like this one, this one, this one, and this one, agree with me.

So yes, I am very, very stupid and not even funny.
Remember though, it's never the same with every case. I have a friend who does MMA, and he is the most calm person I know. He does MMA for the sport of fighting, not for anything else. He is also amazingly good at it because he never looses his cool. Those essays are right, but not 100% of the time. Then again, is everything right 100% of the time.

As for Sony games, they have some great titles. Jillzone is a great exclusive series, as well as the fact they get a special FFXIII series. God of War is also another good series, with GoW3 being an amazing game.

I'm biased though, I'm a hardcore Sony/Nintendo fan.
 

X1-12

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Remember though, it's never the same with every case. I have a friend who does MMA, and he is the most calm person I know. .
some people do physical sports like boxing purely to get rid of their anger (I play melee instead), but I can't say you have gotten rid of your anger if you [Kingdome Come] are like that..
 

Ryu Shimazu

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^ Yeah I'm kind of worried about him too. You know, I have nothing to rid my anger. I -breed- pokemon, I play games to get 100%, I play Brawl, and I'm decent, but do terrible when I'm mad. When I'm mad.. >_> I don't vent at all... I wonder if I'm going to blow up one day.
 

finalark

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Halo, Assasin's Creed, Skate, Gears of War, Left 4 Dead
Halo 1-2, the first Gears of War and both Left 4 Deads are on the PC, Skate and Assassin's Creed is also on the PlayStation 3.

Now on the matter of exclusives, that's a hard one. The Xbox has hardly anything in the way of exclusives, the PS3 has a number of them but most of the stuff on the Wii is shovelware.

So yeah, PS3 has the best exclusives IMO.
 

Kingdom Come

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Halo 1-2, the first Gears of War and both Left 4 Deads are on the PC, Skate and Assassin's Creed is also on the PlayStation 3.

Now on the matter of exclusives, that's a hard one. The Xbox has hardly anything in the way of exclusives, the PS3 has a number of them but most of the stuff on the Wii is shovelware.

So yeah, PS3 has the best exclusives IMO.
Err my fault I meant to compare the companies not the systems.

Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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Halo 1-2, the first Gears of War and both Left 4 Deads are on the PC, Skate and Assassin's Creed is also on the PlayStation 3.

Now on the matter of exclusives, that's a hard one. The Xbox has hardly anything in the way of exclusives, the PS3 has a number of them but most of the stuff on the Wii is shovelware.

So yeah, PS3 has the best exclusives IMO.
That is very hard to say. Some of Nintendo brand stuff is fail. You don't see me dashing out to buy Wariorware volume XI (lol), but it has Pokemon/Metroid/Zelda/Mario/Fire Emblem, those 5 right there have sold significantly as of late.

Star Fox and F-zero have not been on the Wii, but I predict next gen they will revive, much as Metroid revived after N64.

PS3 has some exclusives, such as special rights to FFXIV online (which I might actually play >.>), but I wouldn't say topples Nintendo in exclusives. It does come close though, just because Killzone is cool and I love Final Fantasy<3 (And if FFXIV isn't such a time commitment it's going to be awesome)
 

Luigitoilet

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That is very hard to say. Some of Nintendo brand stuff is fail. You don't see me dashing out to buy Wariorware volume XI (lol), but it has Pokemon/Metroid/Zelda/Mario/Fire Emblem, those 5 right there have sold significantly as of late.

Star Fox and F-zero have not been on the Wii, but I predict next gen they will revive, much as Metroid revived after N64.

PS3 has some exclusives, such as special rights to FFXIV online (which I might actually play >.>), but I wouldn't say topples Nintendo in exclusives. It does come close though, just because Killzone is cool and I love Final Fantasy<3 (And if FFXIV isn't such a time commitment it's going to be awesome)
That's a shame because the Wario Ware on wii is one of the best games on the system.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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^ I guess I should try the newer ones. I played it when it first came out, it just seemed highly repeative to me. But my point still stands <.<
 

finalark

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That's a shame because the Wario Ware on wii is one of the best games on the system.
I was about to say this, but then TL did it for me. Seriously, though, Smooth Moves is a load of fun.

That is very hard to say. Some of Nintendo brand stuff is fail. You don't see me dashing out to buy Wariorware volume XI (lol), but it has Pokemon/Metroid/Zelda/Mario/Fire Emblem, those 5 right there have sold significantly as of late.
I donno, I personally find Warioware to be a load of fun but I haven't played any of the hand-held ones. As for the franchises you mentioned, well, you can't spell analize without anal.

First of all, when debating quality do not use sales to support your agument. I've been though this a million times, it's a flawed theory that if a game sells more then that means it's better. Because in that case, The Sims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bioshock, Mass Effect and Half-Life, obviously.

On on the franchises you mentioned there's gonna be a lot of my two cents being thrown around so don't take it to offesively.

Pokemon - This series more or less is the same game we've been playing since Red and Blue back in the day. For me, this series got stale shortly after Ruby and Saffire. Sure, Colosseum mixed things up enought to keep my interest but after that....

Metroid - I love this franchise, and while I'm kind of shaky on Team Ninja's involvement, Other M looks like it's going to mix up the game play nicely.

Zelda - I've been playing Zelda for a long time, as in, one of the first games I ever played was the NES original. With that said, in terms of game play, I feel like I've been playing a slightly improved version of OoT with each Zelda. I'm glad to see that Nintendo is trying something new with Zelda Wii. Also, I thought that the DS Zeldas were... poor, to put it kindly.

Fire Emblem - Coming from a guy who has played every localized Fire Emblem since they first started coming out in the US, I got tired of it shortly after playing Radiant Dawn. And going back and playing Japan-only titles via emulator, it supprises me how little this franchise has evolved in terms of game play.

And also, aside from Mario, none of those are Nintendo's big sellers. The Wii ____ series is.

PS3 has some exclusives, such as special rights to FFXIV online (which I might actually play >.>), but I wouldn't say topples Nintendo in exclusives. It does come close though, just because Killzone is cool and I love Final Fantasy<3 (And if FFXIV isn't such a time commitment it's going to be awesome)
Some exclusives? Do you mean as in "they have only a few" or "they have only a few good ones?" Because both are pretty inacurate.

On FF... I've played all of them except XIII, and I've had mixed experiances with both. I raged at FFXIV for a bit (I wasn't a fan of XI) but then I calmed down at took a look at it. Now I'm interested in it.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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I was about to say this, but then TL did it for me. Seriously, though, Smooth Moves is a load of fun.



I donno, I personally find Warioware to be a load of fun but I haven't played any of the hand-held ones. As for the franchises you mentioned, well, you can't spell analize without anal.

I never really played Warioware enough to comment, I've only heard a lot of bad things. That was ignorant on my part and I'm sorry. I was more or less trying to think of a Nintendo brand game that isn't good, and yeah.

First of all, when debating quality do not use sales to support your agument. I've been though this a million times, it's a flawed theory that if a game sells more then that means it's better. Because in that case, The Sims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bioshock, Mass Effect and Half-Life, obviously.

Yeah, again you're right. By that logic World of Warcraft is a good game as well, lol.

On on the franchises you mentioned there's gonna be a lot of my two cents being thrown around so don't take it to offesively.

Pokemon - This series more or less is the same game we've been playing since Red and Blue back in the day. For me, this series got stale shortly after Ruby and Saffire. Sure, Colosseum mixed things up enought to keep my interest but after that....

True, but it is also true a lot of people like seeing the wheel reinvented in different shades, so it doesn't make it a bad series

Metroid - I love this franchise, and while I'm kind of shaky on Team Ninja's involvement, Other M looks like it's going to mix up the game play nicely.

Don't be shakey, it's the closest thing to a Super Metroid Return we'll ever get.

Zelda - I've been playing Zelda for a long time, as in, one of the first games I ever played was the NES original. With that said, in terms of game play, I feel like I've been playing a slightly improved version of OoT with each Zelda. I'm glad to see that Nintendo is trying something new with Zelda Wii. Also, I thought that the DS Zeldas were... poor, to put it kindly.

You're right, and Toon Link deserves better. These are still good games though, just based off my feelings. There were none of them I had to put down because they are "that bad".

Fire Emblem - Coming from a guy who has played every localized Fire Emblem since they first started coming out in the US, I got tired of it shortly after playing Radiant Dawn. And going back and playing Japan-only titles via emulator, it supprises me how little this franchise has evolved in terms of game play.

Well that is a matter of opinion, I enjoyed them. Though I had to borrow a lot of them and rush through it.

And also, aside from Mario, none of those are Nintendo's big sellers. The Wii ____ series is.

Yes, I forget about that series. Though if you added all the "Nintendo only" games together, they combined make a good profit which a lot of companies don't have due to the lack of exclusive titles.



Some exclusives? Do you mean as in "they have only a few" or "they have only a few good ones?" Because both are pretty inacurate.

What I mean is they have more than 360, but less than Wii. I will not debate who is right over this because it's a matter of opinion, which in the other Zelda post two people never realized. I will say though, Killzone/MGS/FF exclusives/ are amazing.. I'm leaving out some so don't think that's all of the ones I like, absent minded right now, lol.

On FF... I've played all of them except XIII, and I've had mixed experiances with both. I raged at FFXIV for a bit (I wasn't a fan of XI) but then I calmed down at took a look at it. Now I'm interested in it.

This is what I wanted to respond to the most. I am not a Fan of FFXIII, despite played them all. I just recently beat XII with everything, two sets of grand armor, etc. I lost the file to corruption.. so I'm getting a game save, but whatever that isn't the point. I'm a hardcore ff person, and 13 saddens me. It's linear, and that right there destroys it. Again I will not argue over game preferences.
Onward to FFXI. My life would dearly suck without it. I met my girlfriend whom lives with me now because of it, but I also quit. FFXIV is killing it off like a dead animal, and they are ruining it. I did hate the time investment, but I can say I have a lv75 Red Mage, Blue Mage, Ninja, Beastmaster ,Monk, Samurai, and Dragoon. I was a big nerd okay. And despite their failure to give Ninja what it deserves (it was crap on XI), it was my main. All this to say I think FFXI is "meh" as well because of the time sink it was, though fun.
As for XIV I raged too because I wish SE would stop MMOs, they are unhealthy, if played too much, and Square Enix is all about that. (See: Pandemonium Warden) Then I read how it's solo/duo based and not a time commitment, more of a leisure mmo, and I'm excited to play it with my girlfriend now. All this to say I hope you play too :)
Bold=Me and you meant no offense, I won't debate over games, -everyone- has their own ideals, it's easier to just respect them and be friends.
 

Kingdom Come

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I will not debate who is right over this because it's a matter of opinion, which in the other Zelda post two people never realized.



Bold=Me and you meant no offense, I won't debate over games, -everyone- has their own ideals, it's easier to just respect them and be friends.
Shimazu is my new best friend!
 

finalark

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Bold=Me and you meant no offense, I won't debate over games, -everyone- has their own ideals, it's easier to just respect them and be friends.
I personally enjoy a good debate over games just so long as at the end of the day, everyone realizes that we're all gamers here and ment no offense if any offense is done.

While I could talk endlessly wtih all of things you mentioned (while I'm here the reason while I'm interested in FFXIV is because it is a leisurely MMO, much like WoW after the recient patch which caused me to get back into that game) I feel that we're detracting from the main topic.

The classic debate of single player VS. Mutliplayer. I'll say that it really does depend on the game. If I were to list my favorite games of all time, you'll find everything from single-player "experiances" (Metroid Prime, Beyond Good and Evil) to social mutlplayer bananzas (Halo 1, Soul Calibur II) but to me, mutliplayer games will always be better simply because single-player games cannot compair to the memories created when a bunch of middle school kids link their computers together and pop in their copies of Halo for a FuelRod orgy on Battle Creek.
 

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^ Yeah, my friendship with my best friend started over Brawl, and FFXI did wonders for me. I have to say it's tied for me. Single games give me leisure alone time that I thrive for, but multiplayers do what you mention. The only game I detest is MMOs that drain your life away. FFXIV interests me due to it's leisureness, and with college/work I need that. Games like FFXI (though I loved it, it was a lifewaster, 3 years for 1 item scenarios?) I wish would be brought down.

Back on the Quality of gaming, I say it's a tie. Single and Multi are equally great to me.

The best solution is to have a Single player tier and a Multiplayer tier, since they are vastly different.

Off topic again, but if you do FFXIV (I'm not doing beta) we should do some stuff together =D
 

finalark

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I agree on the tiers bit, but how would you judge them? The problem with multiplayer games is that their quality all depends on who you're playing with while with single player games it varies from person to person.

On FFXIV, I'll PM about that.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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^ I tried to add you as a friend, you may get two requests, sorry.

Anyways I don't know how you'd rank them, that is a problem. If people could somehow be unbiased and rate single player games off control/visual/storyline and rate multiplayers off the controls/visual (to a lesser extent)/fun factor it'd be easy, but people are not so.

You could come out with a game called Dynark which is the best fps ever in terms of controls/visuals/fun factor, and people would still say Halo is better.

On the other hand you could make a game called Pelswick's Pounds and it be the best adventure game ever, and people would say "No Zelda is better" because people are biased. Also people have opinions, which make tiers very hard to do (as you mentioned)

So honestly.. I don't know how you would do it, but it's wrong to compare a multi game to a single game considering they are different species. It's like comparing a cat to a television.
 

Geist

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As far as Microsoft is concerned, gaming on the 360 and gaming on the PC are mutual. Hence why a good portion of microsoft games are available on both platforms.

'Quality' in a game should never be defined by its genre, or the amount of players it supports, or the company who made it. Quality, to me, (usually) means a game that's well writen, designed, directed, and highly polished. I would never limit myself to one console, because that would just limit my choices of good games.
Plus, most people actually prefer games with less depth. It's more convenient for them to jump right in and jump right out. A game with less depth doesn't necessarily make it low quality though. It's easy to argue that it's more difficult to create a game when you can't rely on things like plot structure or character development to draw players in.
 
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