The worst of melee, brawl and now project m.

[Raetah]

Maybe some players like how was Ganondorf in melee. But that was, actually an insult to The Legend Of Zelda. Actually PM dedicated time to change the Wario based in WarioWare in one based in WarioLand. I think that Ganondorf with a moveset based in TLOZ instead of one based in the moveset of CF of ssb series maybe makes more sense, i think. But well, SSB4 have important changes in veterans, maybe Ganondorf gains a new moveset.
"This game sucks, is just like brawl."
"but Ganondorf have a representative moveset, checkmate."

 

[teluoborg]

That's a very cool point of view, but it didn't deserve its own topic.

Please post in the social next time.

 

[batistabus]

Nah, Melee Ganon is cool.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Project M Ganon da bess

 

[Yanoss1313]

see the thing there is, the captain falcon only has like 2 or 3 moves that are based on his own games, the rest are only from smash... so why is it a problem that Ganondorf share's some of these?
quite frankly, the smash bros Gannon is a total badass. and all of the things that make him great in melee/pm are things that neither captain falcon nor himself did in their own respective games. (well. except maybe wizards foot punish, lol)

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

melee ganon is loveable garbage. brawl ganon was dead to me from day one. he came from a series where in almost every game he weilds a sword (often two) ,can fire multiple types of projectiles with varying effects, is near immortal and can levitate/fly. but yeah if characters were made to act in smash how they acted in their games, then some of then would be broken beyond belief, and others would be worthless. they should atleast change his neutral b, everyone hates what it is now -_- pm ganon is the best were gonna get so we should just run with it man.

 

[Meme]

PM Ganon is fine at least for me, better U-tilt, f-tilt, side-b... If going canon on this dorf it would be better of doing another character pretty much.

 

[KingOfNothing]

see the thing there is, the captain falcon only has like 2 or 3 moves that are based on his own games, the rest are only from smash... so why is it a problem that Ganondorf share's some of these?
quite frankly, the smash bros Gannon is a total badass. and all of the things that make him great in melee/pm are things that neither captain falcon nor himself did in their own respective games. (well. except maybe wizards foot punish, lol)

I do agree with what Raetah has said (though, I believe this has been discussed elsewhere a bit and didn't need a thread here).
I enjoy playing Ganondorf in Melee/PM but as a Legend of Zelda fan, I find it pretty annoying (disappointed) that his moveset hasn't been more creative in respect to the game he actually comes from. Yes, C. Falcon's moveset has nothing to do with his game, but that makes sense. He doesn't have a moveset, so it's all original. Ganondorf shares more than just "some" of his moves. The properties are different, which definitely makes the gameplay different. But Ganondorf should have a more game accurate moveset. I love F-Zero, but I know some people who played melee and though C. Falcon and Ganondorf were from the same game because their movesets were so similar (that's disappointing to me).
Ganondorf from the Legend of Zelda would never even fight this way (except for maybe moves like his F tilt that was used in TP).

ViewtifulHoe242
Yes, I love the moveset of Ganondorf too. But that's the only reason why people like this character, not because it represents Ganondorf well (well, some people just like Ganondorf because he is Ganondorf, though I'm sure those people wouldn't mind a moveset change).
He can do those things you just mentioned, but that shouldnt mean we can make him do some of those things. What you are saying is that if we try to make him more game accurate he'd be too OP? That doesn't make sense. There are characters like Mewtwo (levitates, etc), Sonic (way too fast), etc that if they were entirely game accurate then they would be too OP for a smash bros game. Of course, they are made to fit the game while keeping moves that represent their games and how they would fight.

Maybe some people just don't care enough to change Ganondorf, but for people like me I'd love to see Ganondorf get a more game accurate moveset (not sure how much there are, hopefully enough to possibly make a change).
I don't even think it would be too hard to make a moveset for him either. He definitely is an important enough character in the Legend of Zelda series to get his own moveset (like Bowser did). For people who want to keep the same Ganondorf gameplay (which I think still needs some tweaking for competitive play), why not just add another F-Zero character to take over Ganondorf's moveset? I know a lot of people would like to see another F-Zero character added.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

he came from a series where in almost every game he weilds a sword (often two)

Wha? He has swords in like three games in the series. That isn't even close to almost every game.

 

[Shadow Huan]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-sword-mode-for-projectm.342640/

this should intrest those of you who want a change. this is the way to go imo.

no idea if the PMBR is planning on officially doing something similar though

 

[KingOfNothing]

Eh. I'd rather be able to play a more game accurate Ganon in competitive play.
But yeah, there are many Ganon PSA's out there (though, quality varies).

 

[Kneato]

This might tickle your pickle: http://smashboards.com/threads/clone-engine-character-speculation-and-discussion-thread-new-chars-voting-results-updated-11-13.341479/
One of the most popular options for new clone engine characters is adding Black Shadow from F-Zero in with Ganon's current move set (which would be a fitting move set for Falcon's nemesis) and then making a completely new, more lore inspired moveset for Ganon.

 

[Zujx]

or they could not do that because players that play a lot of ganon have come to very much enjoy him the way he is

Yeah it was a weird choice to make ganon a CF clone but, whatever it worked out great

despite being a clone he has a dramatically different play style

I don't want to be "Black Shadow" that's a character i truly do not care about.

I don't care if ganon is not top-tier

i don't care if ganon's moveset is not at all accurate to him

You make good points but, It really sucks when people are trying to dramatically change a character you enjoy just because he's less popular


Moral of the Story: Would Everyone Please Stay the Hell Away From Gannondorf

 

[Yanoss1313]

or they could not do that because players that play a lot of ganon have come to very much enjoy him the way he is

Yeah it was a weird choice to make ganon a CF clone but, whatever it worked out great

despite being a clone he has a dramatically different play style

I don't want to be "Black Shadow" that's a character i truly do not care about.

I don't care if ganon is not top-tier

i don't care if ganon's moveset is not at all accurate to him

You make good points but, It really sucks when people are trying to dramatically change a character you enjoy just because he's less popular


Moral of the Story: Would Everyone Please Stay the Hell Away From Gannondorf

THIS

 

[KingOfNothing]

Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying.
But, it all comes down to what the majority of people want and whatever decision the PMBR makes. In the end Ganon will probably stay the same, but, there are many (like me) who'd like to see a change.

"Yeah it was a weird choice to make ganon a CF clone but, whatever it worked out great

i don't care if ganon's moveset is not at all accurate to him

You make good points but, It really sucks when people are trying to dramatically change a character you enjoy just because he's less popular"

I personally don't think it worked out well (for the character they stuck the moveset on). I do care, as that's what actually would make him Ganon besides the SFX and Character Model that can easily be replaced (no clue who the character would be then with the moveset Ganon has if those things were changed). I don't think people are trying to change the character because he's less popular, actually people are trying to change the character for the opposite reason. Ganon is a popular character and people want to see him have a moveset that represents him accurately. The only thing that would be dramatically changed is who has the moveset, the character will still be in the game. Black Shadow doesn't even have the huge of a personality difference. But, once again, just opinionated.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying.
But, it all comes down to what the majority of people want and whatever decision the PMBR makes. In the end Ganon will probably stay the same, but, there are many (like me) who'd like to see a change.

"Yeah it was a weird choice to make ganon a CF clone but, whatever it worked out great

i don't care if ganon's moveset is not at all accurate to him

You make good points but, It really sucks when people are trying to dramatically change a character you enjoy just because he's less popular"

I personally don't think it worked out well (for the character they stuck the moveset on). I do care, as that's what actually would make him Ganon besides the SFX and Character Model that can easily be replaced (no clue who the character would be then with the moveset Ganon has if those things were changed). I don't think people are trying to change the character because he's less popular, actually people are trying to change the character for the opposite reason. Ganon is a popular character and people want to see him have a moveset that represents him accurately. The only thing that would be dramatically changed is who has the moveset, the character will still be in the game. Black Shadow doesn't even have the huge of a personality difference. But, once again, just opinionated.

This is too much. I think if you asked the majority of Ganon players, they would voice their wants to keep him as he is. He's a cool character with a fast and heavy fighting style that has defined him in the smash series since he was included. To change that would be the loss of the character. Calling for a complete change, or move of his moveset to another character, is asinine as it is inconsiderate to the immense following the character has bolstered.

He's carved out his place as the Warlock of hate and sweet dunks, and to change that because you want him to fit a more so lore based frame sucks. This iteration of Ganondorf (the one in smash) is itself a definitive interpretation of the character, and in a lot of instances peoples favorite version. He's a kickass character with a kickass FITTING moveset and will remain as such for the duration of this games development because the developers are smart enough to know this is what the Ganon mains want, and that's what matters.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

He's carved out his place as the Warlock of hate and sweet dunks

Damn. That is beautiful.

I want that written on his character page: "Ganondorf, the Warlock of Hate and Sweet Dunks."

 

[KingOfNothing]

This is too much. I think if you asked the majority of Ganon players, they would voice their wants to keep him as he is. He's a cool character with a fast and heavy fighting style that has defined him in the smash series since he was included. To change that would be the loss of the character. Calling for a complete change, or move of his moveset to another character, is asinine as it is inconsiderate to the immense following the character has bolstered.

He's carved out his place as the Warlock of hate and sweet dunks, and to change that because you want him to fit a more so lore based frame sucks. This iteration of Ganondorf (the one in smash) is itself a definitive interpretation of the character, and in a lot of instances peoples favorite version. He's a kickass character with a kickass FITTING moveset and will remain as such for the duration of this games development because the developers are smart enough to know this is what the Ganon mains want, and that's what matters.

Well, of course, because they are used to the moveset and obviously if they are still playing Ganon at this point they obviously don't care enough to want it to change (and one of the reasons I get less backing in this section of the forums). But, there aren't many Ganon mains, and part of the reason why is because his moveset has nothing to do with the character.
How would that be a loss of a character? That's not even Ganon. He was a last second add in to melee. I don't see the immense following you are talking about. From what I have seen from the majority of the public is the want of a new moveset. A change to his moveset or moving it to another character is not foolish. Because you love a moveset that has nothing to do with a character just because that's how it's been for a couple years, then oh well. Not everyone will end up happy.
"because you want him to fit a more so lore based frame sucks"
I don't think it sucks. This is all up to opinion but I'm pretty sure everybody would be pretty annoyed if Mario, Link, etc had a moveset that made no sense to the character at all. It makes sense to have a more "lore based" moveset. It's not fitting at all. How do you think it's fitting? Because of the purple glow and the hard hitting moves?
Yeah, they will most likely keep it the same as they want to preserve melee gameplay (at least, for the most part). But, as shown by this http://smashboards.com/threads/clone-engine-character-speculation-and-discussion-thread-new-chars-voting-results-updated-11-13.341479/ people do want to see this change, as well as a new F-Zero character (who happens to need a whole new, non game related moveset).
In the end, it's all opinion. I'm just saying that as a Legend of Zelda fan and a fan of the character, that I'd like to see a moveset that accurately represents Ganon in a game that is supposed to represent different Nintendo characters (and I'd be fine with the moveset going to a diff character, and I find the moveset fun and would like for it to remain in some way). And I understand that some people (like you) that have grown to love this moveset and how it matches up with the character.
We should just voice our opinions (like we have) and see what others think, then hope that our changes are recognized by the PMBR. Whatever happens will happen, both our opinions are valid in their own way.http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ew-chars-voting-results-updated-11-13.341479/

 

[Yanoss1313]

here's a hypothetical situation, would people even bring this up as an issue if captain falcon never existed in the smash brothers series but Ganondorf was still the exact same as he is now?(stomps and all).

I would think not, you see, regardless of if many of his moves where derived from another character from another game, these moves do fit ganondorf very well (especialy flame choke, which i might ad is also characturistic of his own games). Every single one of them convey Ganondorf's strength and power, and at the end of it all, who is he?... he is the dark lord, the gerudo king, holder of the triforce of bloody power. you're sugestion that "if they are still playing Ganon at this point they obviously don't care enough to want it to change" is bat **** insane, i want it NOT to change because i care a whole hell of a lot. what difference does it make if he doesn't have a projectile or a sword? What he has conveys the sense that this is a man that will destroy anything blocking his path to victory and domination... I'm sorry i'm getting a little worked up here... but the suggestion that gannon mains don't want him changed is simply as a result of us just "not caring" really pisses me off... You know why that is? because we seem to care a whole ****ing lot more than you...

 

[KingOfNothing]

Yeah, I would. Because, it's not even close to how he fights in the games. xD Same could be said for you, would you care at all if his moveset was game accurate from the start? No. We wouldn't even be having this discussion. No one would think "I really wish Ganon was a C. Falcon clone!".

Flame Choke is, huh? When does he use this? Besides, WW in a cutscene or something, where he just holds someone up.

All his moves are just C. Falcon moves, there wasn't any thought behind them showing his power. Nor is this how he shows his "power". Yeah, he is the Dark Lord, Gerudo King, but that's not how he fights. That's not him.

What I was saying is that people have grown to accept and not care about the addition of an accurate moveset over the years instead of the last minute clone Nintendo gave him just to add more character to melee.

Well, it makes a difference if you want a more game accurate moveset. And of course, people will have different opinions on what they want his moveset to be like.

Ok, well he doesn't have to use a moveset that doesn't represent him to show that.

Ganon*

Uh no. I didn't say that. I'm saying that Ganon mains play the character for the moveset, not the character or that they've grown to like how the moveset matches up with the character. Though, there are many who want a more accurate Ganon moveset, instead of the disappointing one (opinion) that we got in Melee. Which, is all opinionated. I acknowledge that this depends on the majority of people's opinions and the PMBR.

So, please respect others opnions.

"because to care a whole ****ing lot more than you..."
What? Are you trying to say I don't care about Ganon's moveset? Because I do, I want it to be accurate like it should of been from the start.

 

[Fortress]

Could we lock this thread already? We get enough of this crap in the Clone Engine thread.

Ganondorf confirmed to remain kicking ass. People crying about canon can stay salty.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Ganondorf has a different fighting style in every game he shows up in. Even in his own games he isn't very consistent.

That said, Ganon's abilities in game lead me to believe he could perform every move he does in Smash.

Ganon is a master of many styles, the guy's got range. He's fine as is and would only need minor changes to be more canon. That said, he doesn't really need it. He certainly doesn't need to be torn down and replaced by Black Shadow, as some have suggested in the Clone Engine thread.

Plenty of characters have inconsistencies in terms of canon, it's not a big deal.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Ganondorf has a different fighting style in every game he shows up in. Even in his own games he isn't very consistent.

That said, Ganon's abilities in game lead me to believe he could perform every move he does in Smash.

Ganon is a master of many styles, the guy's got range. He's fine as is and would only need minor changes to be more canon. That said, he doesn't really need it. He certainly doesn't need to be torn down and replaced by Black Shadow, as some have suggested in the Clone Engine thread.

Plenty of characters have inconsistencies in terms of canon, it's not a big deal.

thank you

 

[Fortress]

It's like this whole thread was just bait for Ganondorf mains.

Why do I keep bumping the thread.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

i personally wouldnt mind if they changed his neutral b to some kind of projectile...

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

i personally wouldnt mind if they changed his neutral b to some kind of projectile...

Exactly, only minor changes would really be needed, and Warlock Punch is useless. So, yeah... projectile.

Seriously, why does that move still have to exist?

 

[Burning Boom]

Exactly, only minor changes would really be needed, and Warlock Punch is useless. So, yeah... projectile.

Seriously, why does that move still have to exist?

Because it looks incredibly badass. Most would wish to think there's a more complex reason, but there really isn't.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Because it looks incredibly badass. Most would wish to think there's a more complex reason, but there really isn't.

That's just not enough for me anymore...

They could at least make Warlock Punch usable, right?

 

[Burning Boom]

That's just not enough for me anymore...

They could at least make Warlock Punch usable, right?

Well, if it makes you feel any better, you could probably use it if your opponent is stunned from having their shield broken?

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, you could probably use it if your opponent is stunned from having their shield broken?

Ganon has more than enough killing options on a stunned character. Warlock Punch doesn't really fulfill that role meaningfully enough to warrant it being as bad as it is, especially considering the fact that it is not that much more powerful than his fully charged smash attacks (not to mention how much more useful his smashes are in general).

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

no one is dumb enough to get their shield broken against ganon

 

[Yanoss1313]

yeah, at least most of us can agree on that, warlock punch has gotta go.

 

[Fortress]

I always thought Warlock Punch would be cool if you could charge it like DK, and just let it go when you want.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Please direct all Warlock Punch suggestions to this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ganon-meta-thread-discussions-and-suggestions-go-here.341662/

 

[Burning Boom]

I didn't say it justified the move, it's just the only possible situation I could think of it being useful.

 

[Raetah]

Well, the day i writed this, i readed some answers inmediatelly. I was really close to write "What are you talking about? Ganon dont apears in melee". I had prepared many arguments of why he shouldnt be like C. Falcon, and also i have 4 diferent movesets descriptions that include images explaining the origin of those moves, in one of those he is not swordman and it represents Ganondorf properly. But all those messages calling Ganon to Ganondorf annoyed me a way too much. So im not going to post all that since it would be a useless and is going to generate mostly negative comments of smashers. Smashers that never played The Legend Of Zelda, or if they did, they used a walktrough each 5 mins and obviously not even close to explore the 100% of the game.

Nothing more to say...
My next message is going to be in the toon link section of ssb4, other day.

I would like to see Bowser being a clone of Ness and King Dedede being a clone of Game&Watch. Just why not? Im sure that it would be funny.

 

[Burning Boom]

Well, the day i writed this, i readed some answers inmediatelly. I was really close to write "What are you talking about? Ganon dont apears in melee". I had prepared many arguments of why he shouldnt be like C. Falcon, and also i have 4 diferent movesets descriptions that include images explaining the origin of those moves, in one of those he is not swordman and it represents Ganondorf properly. But all those messages calling Ganon to Ganondorf annoyed me a way too much. So im not going to post all that since it would be a useless and is going to generate mostly negative comments of smashers. Smashers that never played The Legend Of Zelda, or if they did, they used a walktrough each 5 mins and obviously not even close to explore the 100% of the game.

Nothing more to say...
My next message is going to be in the toon link section of ssb4, other day.

I would like to see Bowser being a clone of Ness and King Dedede being a clone of Game&Watch. Just why not? Im sure that it would be funny.

Glad you assume so many things about people, and pretend to have arguments that you refuse to prove the existence of. Name one reason why Ganondorf's movesest is so awful, and I'll give your argument the time of day, but I doubt you'll do that, as that would require actually making a point.

 

[Saito]

But, as shown by this http://smashboards.com/threads/clone-engine-character-speculation-and-discussion-thread-new-chars-voting-results-updated-11-13.341479/ people do want to see this change, as well as a new F-Zero character (who happens to need a whole new, non game related moveset).

How many of these people actually main ganon, or even use him as a secondary?

Most of these people just want the character to be unique and canon, whether or not they play him at all.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Glad you assume so many things about people, and pretend to have arguments that you refuse to prove the existence of. Name one reason why Ganondorf's movesest is so awful, and I'll give your argument the time of day, but I doubt you'll do that, as that would require actually making a point.

Oh no he dih-en't!!!

But seriously, there's no reason to take Reatah seriously after that abortion of a post.

 

[teluoborg]

Why are you guys still answering to this thread, nothing good will ever come out of it. Ever.

If I was a mod I'd close it.