Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[Fancykong]

My jaw dropped at the spikes. Both of them.
Rin has just enlightened me on efficient ledge play.
I might put more effort into this character now.


...might.

What's funny is that he played just like I play the Sheik matchup if they're really good. Stay 100% on defense, running B reverse SS and 2 frame header like crazy! I didn't like how many times he did Side B without SH cancelling or feinting in the opposite direction of False. On top of that, False plays John12346 pretty regularly, so he should know this matchup. Yet he still went super aggro, even when he had the lead. Plus, he never punished those laggy on stage Side B's as efficiently as I would have liked to have seen.

All in all, now that the hype has died down I'm pretty disappointed in False, but RIN played solidly. Sometimes you don't need 1564434 cancelled moves and ATs to win, just a sound strategy and good reflexes.

 

[Fancykong]

OMG RIN JUST BEAT A MARIO AND IS ADVANCING IN BRACKET!!!!

Also, Pierce's commentary was extremely annoying.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Sorry for failing y'all. Got bopped by Karna(Texas Sheik) on stream and only made top 120 at Genesis. Lost round 2 of day two to Regi game and watch(2-0) second game was super close. I beat logic round 1 of day 2(2-0). I was shocked cause Wii Fit vs Olimar is a terrible MU. Lol

 

[Fancykong]

You must have been on the opposite stream than Rin, then. I was trying to make sure I saw everyone's matches, but the stream quality was terrible.

And wow, you got to go against Regi AND you 2-0'd Logic!? Was that set recorded?

 

[Champ Gold]

The sole fact that we got a WFT in Top 32 makes me much more excited for this tournament than before.

 

[Fancykong]

The sole fact that we got a WFT in Top 32 makes me much more excited for this tournament than before.

Yeah, but Pierce'a matchup inexperience showed hard. "I CAN'TELL BELIEVE THAT THIS LEDGE PLAY IS AN OPTIMAL WII FIT TRAINER PLAY, SHE'S GIVING UP STAGE CONTROL-"
-Rin wins-

Thenot there was the whole cape debacle where he actually stopped commentating and just said "Where's the cape!?" for 15-20 seconds straight. And then when his co commentator warned him that the WFT was probably trying to bait the capes so he could punish them, Pierce said that he could cape physical attacks too, forgetting that WFT hits on both sides of her body.

Combined with his usual paragraph-long commentating style, the match was hard to listen to.

Something of note, Rin used a Header Feint once, but never used a SH header cancel and still made top 32. I can't wait to get my controller adapter so I can join in the tourney fun!

 

[Lakuto]

Something of note, Rin used a Header Feint once, but never used a SH header cancel and still made top 32.

I am so surprised about it too. That guy is strong for sure but all I was thinking during his matches was SH Header and Header Cancel. Like, he is putting one attribut to the character to the side for no specific reason.
Rin kinda make me feel like the way Slayerz uses his Peach without almost no turnips. Maybe they want to focus on other aspects of the character but they do miss optimal option sometimes by avoiding these aspects. (Dunno if I made my self clear...)
Nevertheless, they are strong players for sure.

 

[Macchiato]

Yeah, but Pierce'a matchup inexperience showed hard. "I CAN'TELL BELIEVE THAT THIS LEDGE PLAY IS AN OPTIMAL WII FIT TRAINER PLAY, SHE'S GIVING UP STAGE CONTROL-"
-Rin wins-

Thenot there was the whole cape debacle where he actually stopped commentating and just said "Where's the cape!?" for 15-20 seconds straight. And then when his co commentator warned him that the WFT was probably trying to bait the capes so he could punish them, Pierce said that he could cape physical attacks too, forgetting that WFT hits on both sides of her body.

Combined with his usual paragraph-long commentating style, the match was hard to listen to.

Something of note, Rin used a Header Feint once, but never used a SH header cancel and still made top 32. I can't wait to get my controller adapter so I can join in the tourney fun!

but can you really be surprised? most people don't know much about wii fit or play her. i've seen one person has her fair, nair

 

[Fancykong]

I expect commentators to stay open minded about strats instead of immediately dismissing it, even when proven wrong. Like when Homemade Waffles admitted that he didn't know how Axe would fight, but was hyped to see what he would pull off during Melee top 8.

Funny thing is, I did the exact offstage caped Header scenario that Pierce wanted to see last night. Turns out that the cape reflects the ball, but the spike hitbox still comes out, killing the Mario player.

But my commentating rant is done. Great job again to both Rin and Wii Twerk Trainer !!!

 

[SuaveChaser]

Rin's play was something else i never thought about that style good job to any wii fits that were out there.

 

[JEStr]

Anyone have a link/timestamp to Rin's match in the stream archives? I saw the end of it live and would love to watch and study his play again. Thanks!

Also just any other high level WFT sets that would make good viewing

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Rin came up to me and wanted to play many friendlies with me. I was so happy he found me haha We talked on Twitter to meet up at Genesis. Man... this mans Wii Fit is insane and out of this world. He did so many things that Myself and other Wii Fit mains would never do. This guys Wii Fit always got early spikes and is extremely calculated and good with reads . I supported him in every match he played and he helped me greatly with Wii Fit. Rin is by far the most amazing Wii Fit and I respect him greatly for his stunning performance. We hung out alot and it was the best time ever haha

 

[Fancykong]

Really? What is Rin's twitter account?

 

[BTVolta]

rintarosu10

 

[sam☆jam]

Anyone have a link/timestamp to Rin's match in the stream archives? I saw the end of it live and would love to watch and study his play again. Thanks!

Also just any other high level WFT sets that would make good viewing

I missed some of Rin's matches so I found a couple, rockin the Wii Fit plush. i think wii twerk trainer might be in the crowd during the first video

False VS Rin (2:29:45) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg2/v/35686695
TEB VS Rin (1:39:00) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg2/v/35870454
ESAM VS Rin (4:36:50) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg/v/35870268 (might want to turn the volume down on this one)

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I missed some of Rin's matches so I found a couple, rockin the Wii Fit plush. i think wii twerk trainer might be in the crowd during the first video

False VS Rin (2:29:45) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg2/v/35686695
TEB VS Rin (1:39:00) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg2/v/35870454
ESAM VS Rin (4:36:50) http://www.twitch.tv/showdowngg/v/35870268 (might want to turn the volume down on this one)

lol hahha Im in the background when Rin was playing against False lol Im the guy in the purple muscle tee haha XD

i hope false and teb one get put onyoutube soon. only the esam one is on

 

[⑨ball]

I'll be the first to admit the quality is subpar, but it's atleast visible?

http://gfycat.com/BlueWetAbyssiniancat

https://vine.co/u/1276128354374135808

Vine seems to crop and trim my videos no matter what size they are so I'll use it a lot less than Gycat. Not sure why imgur won't accept my webms.

What do you guys think? Good enough for now? Or Should I keep looking for alternatives?

 

[Fancykong]

WHOA. That quality is great! And now that I've seen the RTACC in action, that is really hype! Like seriously.

 

[⑨ball]

Haha, I wouldn't say great, but we can all see what's going on, and don't have to hear the studio or my space heater roaring in the background.

If this works for everyone, I can start taking requests for techs people might be having trouble getting down off of text alone or just neat tips and tricks for MUs.

 

[BTVolta]

With the first official tier list out we are all now officially LOW TIER HEROES!(capes not provided) Here's to proving how good WFT truly is and staying fit while doing it on the next list.

 

[Fancykong]

With the first official tier list out we are all now officially LOW TIER HEROES!(capes not provided) Here's to proving how good WFT truly is and staying fit while doing it on the next list.

People can call us whatever they want tier-wise. Let them clutch that list for dear life as we continue to take names.

The massive salt deposit after John Numbers beat Shofu to get into top 32 at Evo was delicious.

Rin beating False, a skilled player of the highest character in the game, was a great success.

Even Vinnie has felt the solar sting before.

So let them call us "low-tier." Let them scoff at our projectiles and healing. Let them try to pester us with notions of switching mains. Because we won't stop. We aren't giving in any time soon. With our Boards, we will bring true Balance to the tier list until they feel the burn. And when they ask how it could be possible to lose to such a glorified gym coach, tell them to Get. Fit.​

SALUTE THE SUN!!​

 

[Macchiato]

meanwhile zelda

 

[ぱみゅ]

Zelwho?

 

[Fancykong]

meanwhile zelda

 

[Champ Gold]

Who in the hell would play Zelda when so many better girls exist especially Fitness Goddess


But to be fair, she isn't Palutena bad

 

[Lakuto]

But to be fair, she isn't Palutena bad

Is it me or you said Zelda > Palutena? I have not heard many people say that

 

[Fancykong]

Not to derail the thread too much, but I'm planning on using Bayonetta as a secondary so I can hit Pikachu, DHD, Olimar, etc. easier. She seems to still keep the run and gun, evasive shooting style that I'm used to for Wii Fit, but her down tilt shoots low and on both sides. Although I can still beat short characters with Wii Fit because I've adapted my playstyle, it still takes forever versus some players that never commit. So I'm going to experiment with Bayo and see if her projectile game is comparable to Wii Fit.

That being said: TODAY'S THE PATCH DAY! I'm hoping for some sweet buffs to WFT, namely ending lag trimming. I've given up on her ever getting frame 3 moves since they all hit on two different sides, but I just want her Neutral B's deadzone to be fixed finally.

 

[BTVolta]

Bayo's slower moves(as sakurai described) make me wary on how well she'll do versus Pika or Oli, but I guess that's what testing is for. I just hope she's fun.

I'm not looking forward to too much this patch for WFT. Maybe less recovery on U-tilt or faster start up on D-smash so I have a reason to use it more. Faster start up on D-tilt? I'm mostly fine with WFTs kit now, but I won't complain about frosting.

 

[Fancykong]

Against pika, it's a toss up. WFT doesn't have overly fast moves, but Fair and Bair are surprisingly effective against quick attack, and slightly charged SS phases through Thunder Jolt so Pika still gets hit. If Bayo's Bullet Arts (holding the attack button after doing a normal or aerial move) can shoot pika out of quick attack, then the matchup becomes WAY easier. Even more so if they clank with thunder jolt. Forcing pika to run and roll towards you in an obvious fashion makes it easier to punish, so she could still shine.

I normally use WFT Dsmash to catch landings since the lowered position dodges aerials, but her hitbox still catches them on both sides. Either that or I use a projectile to force them to recover one way and then upsmash. Useful against Peach, Lucas, Mewtwo, and sword characters that try to recover high to avoid spikes.

 

[Champ Gold]

At most I'm hoping for some less lag on F-Smash and some more gimp options aside from FAir.

 

[BTVolta]

After playing the pika match up a couple times these past weeks and doing some studying I'm eager to tryout again with my new knowledge(full hop t-jolt gets blown up by SS, etc). But if I remember correctly the bullets shouldn't have knock back so I'm not sure they can beat QA.

I use Dsmash, just only in matchups where it's a stronger punish than Fsmash(falcon, Mac, etc). I just wish it was faster since it has lower damage and I think knockback.

 

[John12346]

The Pika matchup is definitely very tricky, primarily because his short stature avoids our attacks at times, and we can't exactly edgeguard him too efficiently.

At the very least, though, Pika has very few answers to us running away and attempting to camp. In addition to his Jolt approaches getting blown up, SS also blows up Pika's Quick Attack approaches, which is very helpful. Pika also has very little answer to aircamping in general, because his Uair is extraordinarily weak, and Thunder - as long as you're not at the height where the cloud will spawn - is a slow, telegraphed move that's pretty easy to play around. Lastly, just as we cannot edgeguard Pika very easily, Pika himself also struggles to edgeguard us. As long as you're vigilant for Thunders, and run-off aerials for an attempted stagespike, you should NEVER get gimped by this character.

The matchup is still quite tough, because he's very fast in the mobility and framedata department, in addition to being really really short, but we do have a few edges that we can take advantage of, at least. Probably a 40:60 in Pika's favor.

 

[Fancykong]

To edgeguard pika, I usually throw out a cancelled Header Ball to

1. Increase the number of things he runs into during his QA and

2. To take advantage of the header spike hitbox on his exposed hurtbox, or maybe even

3. Run and use a dropzone Up B to mess up their low recovery angles.

So basically my same gameplan as on stage: throw projectiles at his approaches and use normals on his mistakes. I have a pikachu user in my area, so I've gotten some decent practice. Still super annoying though.

 

[⑨ball]

Spoiler: On the topic of tier placing

It's what I expected, just inaccurate as always since results prove otherwise. Every national we've had a representative at had WFT place in the top 32 which is more than a lot of characters above her can claim. In either case it's no big deal. Also Zelda v Palutena is debatable. Zelda has a better advantage state, but her neutral is pretty bad. Pally's neutral is decent, but has an abysmal advantage state. Both have ok disadvantages, with the slightly scale in Palutena's favor because of more serviceable aerials for landing and getting off the ledge.

Spoiler: On the topic of Bayonetta

Follow up bullets (hold the attack) should be like Fox lasers, but I believe her neutral b does. The trailer and follow up video showed what looked to different versions though ( one was her shooting up at an angle) and the other had her shooting forward and behind at the same time (to destroy DH and his gunmen) at first I thought this was her Dsmash, but given that all her smashes seem to be demon summoning, I'm not sure what that clip could have been. In any case looking forward to trying them out. As for patch changes, not much faith in dev team this far in. I'm convinced they're terrified of what characters like WFT and Shulk could do to the casual scene if they weren't undertuned.

Spoiler: On the topic of Pikachu

I have a lot of doubts about Pikachu in general and find that on the regular the players themselves are better than the actually character. His frame data isn't actually too great (common neutral tools being a frame 10 fair, frame 14 dair, and quick attack frame 15>43) everything else is about average and has bad range. His only move that really stands out imo is utilt which recovers fast, is disjointed and sets up his low percent combos which don't work for long on WFT and suffer heavily from SDI (SDI up out of fair let's you act before he can if he drags you into the ground). No solid kill confirms, so he relies on hard reads/punishes to close stocks. He's also very prone to putting himself in disadvantage because Thunder is awkward to punish. There are honestly quite a few weaknesses apparent that makes me question how good he really is and how bad if at all WFT loses to him. I think the match needs a new perspective but I think that about a lot of things.

:x

 

[BTVolta]

These are very interesting write ups This isn't the character match up thread but a lot of interesting info drops came about. It's probably worth giving the match up and the character a more thorough look.

 

[⑨ball]

Small notes as I don't think we need a thread.

Not too impressed with either character but I'm still playing around, just no notable crazy things out the gate like Cloud's limit break being infinite.

Wii Fit had a parameter change somewhere that could be any number of things. My votes go to possible placebos in dtilt cool down, DB timer extension (like a second maybe), and something with header cancel since I can no longer header cancel and slide off the edge(which was completely useless as RCO lag was a thing.) If the header thing was fixed our ledgeplay might get silly since it was the only thing preventing refreshing ledge invul with reverse air dodge stuff. Nothing confirmed yet aside from there was SOME change. Guess we'll see.

 

[Erimir]

How long is it going to take to find out what this mystery change to WFT was?

 

[Jlp]

Was there even any change to WFT?

 

[BTVolta]

Yes. It was a parameter change, but no one knows what.

 

[Fancykong]

I'm pretty sure that all we got was a .2436 change on some random move that won't affect any matchups ever, but no one cares enough to at least tell us. Especially since we aren't Marth, Lucina or top tiers.