Social The WFTGD: How About Some Deep Breathing?

[Indigo Jeans]

Deep breathing actually lasts about 10 seconds.
There is additional knockback added.
Damage multiplier.
Ground speed increased.
Weight increased.
You are "penalized" for air dodge canceling the first activation. It changes it to "secondary" activation whether you fail, succeed or cancel.
The first activation takes about 1.5/2 second(s).
Following activations, or "secondary", without losing a stock take about 5 seconds to activate. Not sure if it returns to the original speed after some time, I only tested up to waiting 30 seconds, but this might have been affected by me AD canceling.
Heals 2% each time.

I feel like I'm missing something but I'm in a rush. Someone correct me if I left something out.

After seeing your post I realised my testing with Deep Breathing was sorely lacking... so I set out to fix that. I used an online stopwatch because **** using the ingame timer. I tested by using a coin to hold down the circle pad so I would only have to press B, making it a lot easier to synchronise B with the stopwatch. All the startup times are what seem to be the earliest/shortest times.

DB's effects last ~8S-8.5S.

Cancelling DB with a shield or airdodge adds to the penalty counter. It increases the counter by the same amount as mistiming does.

Attempting DB while already under its effects increases its startup to ~8S.

Penalties do not seem to stack between executions. By this I mean, if you accrue one penalty attempting your first DB session, its startup will be 1.5S then next attempt. However, if you accrue another penalty on your second attempt by mistiming or cancelling, its startup will still be 1.5S on your next attempt.

It seems that attempting another DB session immediately/very soon after the effects of a previous one have worn off increases the startup. For example, first no-penalty execution startup = 0.8S. Second no-penalty execution startup = 3.5S if immediately afterwards. Third no-penalty execution startup = 4S if immediately afterwards. It seems to cap at 4S. This doesn't seem to stack with penalties. This seems to cease after ~5S.

DB's effects seem to last less if executed immediately after another session. If done immediately after your first successful no-penalty session (3.5S startup) the effects only last 7S (or at least the indicating sparkles do).

I'm still testing but now I'm not even entirely sure if the penalty system really is a thing or if I'm just scrambling it with the successive sessions thing

Also how did you figure that ground speed is increased? I tested by running from one edge of tortimer island to the other, and it took roughly three seconds both with and without DB. Same thing for green hill zone, from the start of the bridge on the left to getting KOd from the right.

 

[Brickbuild101]

After seeing your post I realised my testing with Deep Breathing was sorely lacking... so I set out to fix that. I used an online stopwatch because **** using the ingame timer. I tested by using a coin to hold down the circle pad so I would only have to press B, making it a lot easier to synchronise B with the stopwatch. All the startup times are what seem to be the earliest/shortest times.

DB's effects last ~8S-8.5S.

Cancelling DB with a shield or airdodge adds to the penalty counter. It increases the counter by the same amount as mistiming does.

Attempting DB while already under its effects increases its startup to ~8S.

Penalties do not seem to stack between executions. By this I mean, if you accrue one penalty attempting your first DB session, its startup will be 1.5S then next attempt. However, if you accrue another penalty on your second attempt by mistiming or cancelling, its startup will still be 1.5S on your next attempt.

It seems that attempting another DB session immediately/very soon after the effects of a previous one have worn off increases the startup. For example, first no-penalty execution startup = 0.8S. Second no-penalty execution startup = 3.5S if immediately afterwards. Third no-penalty execution startup = 4S if immediately afterwards. It seems to cap at 4S. This doesn't seem to stack with penalties. This seems to cease after ~5S.

DB's effects seem to last less if executed immediately after another session. If done immediately after your first successful no-penalty session (3.5S startup) the effects only last 7S (or at least the indicating sparkles do).

I'm still testing but now I'm not even entirely sure if the penalty system really is a thing or if I'm just scrambling it with the successive sessions thing

Also how did you figure that ground speed is increased? I tested by running from one edge of tortimer island to the other, and it took roughly three seconds both with and without DB. Same thing for green hill zone, from the start of the bridge on the left to getting KOd from the right.

Wow. Datz boring. Moar videos of WFT trolling plz.




:T

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Oh man big thing I just found out. If you're under the effects of DB and initiate another DB, cancelling the second DB session while under the effects of the first will remove the effects.

Wow. Datz boring. Moar videos of WFT trolling plz.




:T

What's trolling?

 

[⑨ball]

Got the movement speed info second hand from another wft main, didn't actually test that bit myself but assumed because it'd make sense.

That's kind of a bummer if it's not, though not really needed tbh, so I can deal.
Thanks for the correction on the active time btw~

Oh man big thing I just found out. If you're under the effects of DB and initiate another DB, cancelling the second DB session while under the effects of the first will remove the effects.

D:

Bye bye, Breathing momentum canceling for anything.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I couldn't find it here or on the beginner thread by searching "meteor," but it looks like WFT's ledge recovery move spikes people who are offstage...

I wish I could post the link but I need 10 posts...search youtube for "Wii Fit Trainer's 3rd Meteor," I'll edit this when I have the option.

Now did this hit only because Donkey Kong seemed to be past the ledge in his recovery? I mean, if not, then is it possible we have basically an edgehog here, where we can spike anyone who is trying to swap the ledge with us?

 

[⑨ball]

I couldn't find it here or on the beginner thread by searching "meteor," but it looks like WFT's ledge recovery move spikes people who are offstage...

I wish I could post the link but I need 10 posts...search youtube for "Wii Fit Trainer's 3rd Meteor," I'll edit this when I have the option.

Now did this hit only because Donkey Kong seemed to be past the ledge in his recovery? I mean, if not, then is it possible we have basically an edgehog here, where we can spike anyone who is trying to swap the ledge with us?

Here's the link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B8xiw-27eo


My first guess is that it's a stage spike. Time to hit the lab.

 

[TimeSmash]

What customs do you guys like to use? I'm sticking with vanilla right now, but I am interested in other setups

 

[Teran]

Man the more patient you are with Miss Fit the she more rewards you. I don't know how but she always seems to get the job done. It's funny actually, if you look at all her assets outside of grounded range, she really is quite stellar.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I think it might be a stage spike. And anyway if it is a spike, it'd be her fourth, not third

Also DB is cancellable beginning on F10/F11. I tested this by going into training and setting speed at 1/4, starting DB while holding shield, and using the stopwatch to approximate how much time elapses until DB is canceled/when shield comes out (I think there are like 1 or 2 frames between a shield input being read by the game and executed and the shield VFX actually appearing). Then I did some mathing

Deep Breathing cancelled on: S0.7
Game runs at: 60F/1S
Speed at: 0.25

0.7 * 0.25 = 0.175
60/1 = x/0.175
60 * 0.175 = x
x = 10.5

Idk if I should round up or down so its either F10 or F11, but thats still pretty darn sweet.

What customs do you guys like to use? I'm sticking with vanilla right now, but I am interested in other setups

Most of them seem pretty ass to me but Jumbo Hoop and Hoop Hurricane look somewhat useful.

 

[CommanderVimes]

Eh I still have some work to do so I'll have to give up on this.
I was able to replicate the spike against a Little Mac sideBing back the stage on Guar Plains. Once. Out of like 500 tries. I do not know how to tell if it is a stage spike or not, but on a few attempts where I hit them with the recovery but it merely sent them back, not a spike, there's an impact effect on the edge of the stage so....stage spike? Note that is not producing the meteor effect in that instance though.

 

[TimeSmash]

Most of them seem pretty *** to me but Jumbo Hoop and Hoop Hurricane look somewhat useful.

The different Sun Salutations might be useful. I think condensed does like 20% fully charged but doesn't heal. Soothing feels like it takes longer, and also heals 2%. The Header ones are quite meh

 

[⑨ball]

Couldn't reproduce it, but I'm pretty sure it's a stage spike. Some UpB's don't sweetspot the ledge, and in this case, something was in the way(an invincible character) and as per his UpB, DK continued to rise slightly past the latch point. He most likely got hit by the get up attack with his huge UpB (it hits on stage normally anyhow) and bounced into the stage, didn't tech, and flew down to his doom.

In any case, it seems way too situational to be of any use.

 

[Brickbuild101]

What customs do you guys like to use? I'm sticking with vanilla right now, but I am interested in other setups

Sweeping Sun Salutation, Weighted Header, Jumbo Hoop (AKA Derp Hoopin'), and regular ol' Deep Breathing.

 

[crisspy727]

Hey guys i came up with some true combo's and kill set up's.
I want to know what you guys think of them.I haven't truly done enough tests with it so i don't know the true potential with every character yet.

True combos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IAw4dvCR_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_iaDtdTJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-Qy613mZs

Kill setups
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LZL7lhwag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPpxjxXLcvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZfwe_XegRU

Sorry for the double posting in the other thread.

 

[BJN39]

OMG those are really good looking! NAir is bawz crazy. These really do appear legit. I especially love the side B KO Setup.

 

[⑨ball]

Hey guys i came up with some true combo's and kill set up's.
I want to know what you guys think of them.

That sour nair>to spike setup is so healthy. :D
A little situational, but man does it look good.

Kill setup 1 is super solid and you beat me to posting about kill setup 2, also really good.

The combos are also on point. The third is going to scare a lot of people. The first two look like a different variation of the ones I've got in the yoga thread. Only better because you've got video. (:

 

[TimeSmash]

@ crisspy727 Could you list what's happening in all these if you get a chance? Solid stuff!!
Edit: We are in dire need of a saying that all WFT mains/players should use on a popular basis. Someone come up with ideas. Just for like fun/victory/trolling/deal with it.

Like, oh Side B spike is unfair? Salute the Sun!

 

[crisspy727]

Well to start with all the combos start with a FF Nair but it must hit from her feet to her thighs which would always send them directly behind her which creates an easy follow up. I guess I need more time in the lab to discover the kill % with her up smash follow with deep breathing and without.

 

[⑨ball]

Deep breathing usually kills about 20% earlier than it would without.

 

[crisspy727]

Deep breathing usually kills about 20% earlier than it would without.

Welp I guess I'll just create a kill % chart without it.Thanks a lot that's gonna save me a lot of time.

 

[⑨ball]

I really wish I'd have come back and read that last post before I started.

How far along are you? I can send you the numbers I've got.

 

[crisspy727]

[qhaven't ⑨ball, post: 17784335, member: 270408"]I really wish I'd have come back and read that last post before I started.

How far along are you? I can send you the numbers I've got.[/quote]
I haven't started at all but since your already ahead I think you should keep on xD.

 

[TimeSmash]

Awesome thanks for letting me know!! Wii Fit Trainer is unexpectedly someone I really enjoy playing as. Not that I ever thought she'd be bad haha, she's just so fun to use

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Man WFT's DACUS is so bad ;_; and with the buffer nerf there's no chance of anything better ;_;7

Also awesome stuff crisspy! SHFFNair really should be utilised more, and its really great to see that you can use it to help reliably set up the spiking hit of Header. Also hadn't noticed but even though both of Nair's first hit's hitboxes deal the same amount of damage, the head hitbox has a slashing sound effect while the foot hitbox has a "rock smashing" sound effect. I wonder if that means they have different knockback values...

Edit: Nope, they both apply 40 KB units to Lucario

 

[crisspy727]

Man WFT's DACUS is so bad ;_; and with the buffer nerf there's no chance of anything better ;_;7

Also awesome stuff crisspy! SHFFNair really should be utilised more, and its really great to see that you can use it to help reliably set up the spiking hit of Header. Also hadn't noticed but even though both of Nair's first hit's hitboxes deal the same amount of damage, the head hitbox has a slashing sound effect while the foot hitbox has a "rock smashing" sound effect. I wonder if that means they have different knockback values...

Edit: Nope, they both apply 40 KB units to Lucario

Yea DACUS is pretty bad it's like we got the least tools out of everybody this is why I'm working so hard just to put a little fear into people when i use her.Also the header set up would become way more viable if custom moves are available since huge header extends the duration of the ball so it gives me more time to pull off the header combo.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

If custom moves are allowed, volatile breathing will really help her KO problem at high %. You can do it quickly and the hitbox is so freaking large. Throw them off stage and then do a quick volatile breathing.

 

[BJN39]

^ Yeah, Volatile breathing is SO LOL BIG. I did a little test, and it can hit over a horizontal area of about 60-70% of Battlefield's main platform, (if positioned near or at the middle.) and it can even hit people on the top platform from the main ground one. It's a shame the sour spot isn't stronger, but hey, the range is just absurd.

So can I just say, I'm REALLY impressed with the geniousness that goes on here? There is so much data talk and actual like looking for new uses and tricks progress that I wish was on every SSB char board.

 

[⑨ball]

Numbers are done. Thinking of making another thread soon.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12lqMO_viGXULA7R99UvuwmwbmtFsgADijH0hDzEOaxk/edit?usp=sharing

Spoiler: notes

everything was tested on omega battlefield in training from default starting positions with no rage (meaning the cpu is near the ledge, rage would help kill earlier, and all moves are thought of as fresh )
numbers are only recorded if lightning appears on kill(blastzone) three times in a row
no smashes were charged
fsmash is always sweet spotted.
bair is sweet spotted
usmash was done on the ground using DACUS except for kirby, pikachu, mk and jigglypuff who were hit at the start of their jumps
SS is fully charged
ftilt is sweetspotted
dair is sweet spotted
uair is done from each character's full jump height

other numbers were generally too high to record/ be of use imo

 

[Circa]

Do we know the degree of vectoring's influence on kill moves yet?

I'm hoping for simplicity's sake it's about 20%, as it would turn all of your research into proper values for DB kills.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Numbers are done. Thinking of making another thread soon.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12lqMO_viGXULA7R99UvuwmwbmtFsgADijH0hDzEOaxk/edit?usp=sharing

Spoiler: notes

everything was tested on omega battlefield in training from default starting positions with no rage (meaning the cpu is near the ledge, rage would help kill earlier, and all moves are thought of as fresh )
numbers are only recorded if lightning appears on kill(blastzone) three times in a row
no smashes were charged
fsmash is always sweet spotted.
bair is sweet spotted
usmash was done on the ground using DACUS except for kirby, pikachu, mk and jigglypuff who were hit at the start of their jumps
SS is fully charged
ftilt is sweetspotted
dair is sweet spotted
uair is done from each character's full jump height

other numbers were generally too high to record/ be of use imo

Wait, ftilt has a sourspot?

Also which hit of Dair did you use cause messing with it now I've just noticed that aside from the 8% and 13% hitboxes there's also apparently a 14% hitbox higher up her chest. Well not necessarily 13% and 14%, they could be anything from 12.1%≤x%≤13.0% and 13.1%≤x%≤14.0% but you get the point

 

[⑨ball]

Ftilt has at least a "weaker" hitbox on it near the back of her hand that'll kill about 5% later. I think this might have to do with the trajectory it sends them at an angle which is closer to the dair's, where as the tip of the hand sends at an angle closer to the header trajectory.

Dair's hit was the one high up on her chest. I wish it was the other one since you can short hop the one in her feet.

Do we know the degree of vectoring's influence on kill moves yet?

I'm hoping for simplicity's sake it's about 20%, as it would turn all of your research into proper values for DB kills.

No one's entirely sure yet, but most people assume it to be about 10-20%

 

[BJN39]

Wait, @⑨ball Fsmash has a sweet-spot? Is this similar to the one on Ftilt?

 

[⑨ball]

Yeah.

You can test this easily by going into training mode, setting a character to their kill percents and fsmashing. Sweetspots do 15% (both back and front) and the hitboxes closer to her center do 14% and will not kill sometimes.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah.

You can test this easily by going into training mode, setting a character to their kill percents and fsmashing. Sweetspots do 15% (both back and front) and the hitboxes closer to her center do 14% and will not kill sometimes.

Wow! WFT has a lot of presicion hit-boxes! I mean, it kinda makes sense and all, but seriously, some moves are a bit too much. Like, BAir has 4 different range/rewards. 9 at point blank, 11 at her legs, 13 at her feet, and 11 at the very tip of the attack.

 

[⑨ball]

Yeah. As fun as she is, she's going to be a high skill cap character. Someone who's going to be ok is casual hands but is going to really shine in the hands of those who know her strengths and weaknesses.

I'm trying to develop some strategies now on the fact that you can't really approach her from the air at all.

 

[FiXalaS]

WFT with Derp hoops, weighted header and big to small Sun Salutation is the stuff of nightmares

especially derp hoops.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I wish I could find some good WFT play to study online. Make it happen already people! :D

 

[TimeSmash]

WFT with Derp hoops, weighted header and big to small Sun Salutation is the stuff of nightmares

especially derp hoops.

Which is derp hoops? The one that goes mostly sideways??

 

[BJN39]

Which is derp hoops? The one that goes mostly sideways??

I believe so. As they are the derpiest.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeVkciQavFg
While this video might not show off everything WFT can truly do, it's still pretty good. Also the music is so H Y P E.

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rOhEt14f1g
Video of a WFT player and a Jigglypuff. Interesting.

3)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B2d_uo4bTQ&list=UU6H7q9AGogpu80m6sNHt3oA
Same player from ^^ but this time its WFT vs Ness