The ultimate community collaboration/competition: Team PC vs PS

[IceArrow]

Landorus is so much better than Landorus-T. Also I think any Kyurem-B set without Fusion Bolt is a waste.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Landorus is so much better than Landorus-T.

In terms of pivoting for slower wall breakers like Kyu-B no, no it's not.

Anyone like the idea of building around Kyu-B, Landorus-T, and Keldeo? Pretty good foundation. Good offensive synergy. Contains a SR'er/defensive pivot, the smashing dragon, and a revenge killer/sweeper.

 

[UltiMario]

Hydreigon doesn't run +spe usually

Haxorus doesn't exist

I think Lando-T is a good idea but I'm not sure about Keldeo

 

[The Real Gamer]

Oh god I've just created the best team I've ever assembled... 17-0 game winning streak and counting.

I'll post the team after I lose.

Streak ended at 24.

But for some dumb ass reason my ACRE peak was at 14 wins. After the next match my ranking went down to like 1820 for literally no reason... The ladder is clearly ****ed up my peak should have at least been in the 2,000s.

The team:

Spoiler

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Perish Song

Toxicroak @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SDef / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Toxic

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 224 SDef / 252 HP / 32 Spd
Sassy Nature
- Thunder
- Iron Head
- Wish
- Stealth Rock

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SDef / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Agility

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 220 SDef / 252 HP / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass

Thundrus T and Toxicroak are extremely underrated.

 

[Circa]

I was actually going to mention Thundurus-T for this team. Trufax.

 

[Riddle]

Your rating always go down when you leave provisional after 15 games, it's dumb, but not broken.

I like +SAtk better, Kyurem just doesn't hit hard enough on the special side otherwise. Most of the stuff it out-speeds with the new nature is uncommon or outspeeding isn't that helpful. The point of the set is to destroy things on switch-ins anyway.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Your rating always go down when you leave provisional after 15 games, it's dumb, but not broken.

Excuse my stupidity but when you say I "left provisional...?"

Whatever happened it sucks because this team had top 100 potential written all over it.

I was actually going to mention Thundurus-T for this team. Trufax.

It's an amazing sweeper but unfortunately it requires a lot of team support to function well. I just slapped it on the team because it had a pretty bad weakness to Ground and Electric attacks. I had no idea it would synergize so well with Baton Pass Celebi. All I had to do was wait for the right opportunity to pass a CM or two to it and it was pretty much GG for the opposing team.

 

[Riddle]

Excuse my stupidity but when you say I "left provisional...?"

Whatever happened it sucks because this team had top 100 potential written all over it.

For the first 15 matches of any account your rating is provisional, since there's not enough information to provide an accurate ranking based on your record. While it's provisional you don't appear on the leaderboard, no matter what your ranking is. Once you've left provisional (always after you play 15 games), your rating significantly drops (at least if its good, not sure what happens of you're like 0-15). I'm not really sure about the justification or the meaning in the formula, but it happens to everyone.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Ok that makes a lot more sense. Nice to know I still have a shot to ladder higher I guess it'll just take longer than expected.

 

[UltiMario]

Your Glicko2 is still really good. If you kept things up it'd be enough to get into a suspect test vote.

 

[mood4food77]

sorry, i was at a friends house but yes, i'd like to join in the festivities

 

[IceArrow]

Why have 2 slow sweepers/wallbreakers? That is why Landorus is far superior as a teammate then Landorus-T.

Edit: Nevermind, Landorus is now in Ubers. Either way I would say that Gliscor is much better at setting up rocks then Landorus-T.

 

[UltiMario]

Gliscor has way tol much trouble using SR, it has like no room for it its movepool.

Lando-T isn't used as a sweeper or wallbreaker btw. Its a bulky pivot that stops physical attackers. Its used to get rocks up and get momentum on your side.

Off topic: holy **** smogon is dumb I never thought I'd see the day where lando-i would be banned.

 

[IceArrow]

But both Kyurem and Landorus are slow yet powerful.


Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Claw
- Earth Power

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn

My suggestion for these 2 pokemon.

 

[UltiMario]

We're going with Riddle's set for Kyu-B.

That Lando-T spread is so bad. Just use the standard one. If there's anything worth arguing over it would be to take out some bulk for speed to outpace paraflinch Jirachi, but not much else (unless someone has a cool Lando-T spread?)

 

[The Real Gamer]

We're going with Riddle's set for Kyu-B.

That Lando-T spread is so bad. Just use the standard one. If there's anything worth arguing over it would be to take out some bulk for speed to outpace paraflinch Jirachi, but not much else (unless someone has a cool Lando-T spread?)

Agreed on both counts.

I still like the idea of pairing a sweeper with Kyurem I'm just still trying to figure out who. I'm thinking something that could smash stuff which would give our Kyu-B some issues like Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Scizor... Volcarona?

Mood4Food I'll add you to the list.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I'd consider two alternate EV spreads on lando-T: 252/252 impish OR 156 hp/252 atk/104 spe adamant. either the better defense OR the ability to outspeed tyranitar would be nice.

as for sweepers with kyurem-b, we have to decide which weather we're going to use (or how we're going to deal with weather). That comes first since if we don't have a way, it will cause a lot of problems.

 

[IceArrow]

Whatever, it doesn't seem like this project will be successful at all based on the obvious flaws in the first 2 pokemon. Also you guys don't understand that Kyurem-B is completely useless unless you have Fusion Bolt. None of my suggestions were listened to even though I'm one of the best battlers here so I guess I'll leave this thread because I don't want to waste my time arguing with players with less skill then me. Also once this teambuilding ends I want to challenge any of you guys to a set. Then we will see who is better at team building.

 

[UltiMario]

Don't run 252 Atk on pivot lando pls

200HP/64Atk/140Def/104 Spe adamant might be a worthy adaptation to the set though. Puts it past the speed benchmarks it needs while still being bulky.

Edit: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL ICEARROW

we won't miss you don't worry

 

[IceArrow]

I don't care if you guys miss me. This thread is supposed to be an ultimate team but you don't use Fusion Bolt on Kyurem-B, wtf lol. This is a joke.

 

[UltiMario]

guess why

because it's specially based mixed

not physically based mixed

because specially based mixed has better coverage

 

[IceArrow]

No it doesn't. Look at the usage statistics.

http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/Wifi OU/131718.html

 

[UltiMario]

1. Used less != worse coverage. The two things have nothing to do with each other.

2. Most common sets != only good sets, stuff like HP Bug Keldeo is non-existent but it's basically the best coverage move for it.

3. Stop using PO stats, they're scrubs. Use PS stats.

Edit: **** I wasted post 10,000 on IA

**** you

 

[IceArrow]

Please explain how this set that I recommended has worse coverage.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Claw
- Hidden Power Fire

Also HP Bug Keldeo isn't as good as HP Ghost or Electric.

 

[kirbyraeg]

1: Choosing special-biased mix over physical-biased mix is something we should be able to actually talk about, rather than you saying that fusion bolt is the greatest move ever created in pokemon and insisting on it just for its own sake. If you'd SAID that you wanted to 2hko specially defensive Jirachi and abuse a stronger DClaw/Outrage that'd be one thing, but you didn't, so we used substantiated arguments and that meant everybody else wanted special-mix kyu-b. Same for Landorus vs. Landorus-T. If you provided another reason besides "lol lando-t sucks compared to landorus" such as "Sand Force will help it net notable KO's and we need the extra speed to U-turn out of threats like hydreigon", then we would have listened.

tl;dr SUBSTANCE

2: Our experience as battlers is something that's not relevant after we've met the requirements. None of us are extremely good at battling. None of us are smogon elites. None of us have gone out and won a VGC tournament or Smogon Tour or anything like that. However, we are all on a close enough level to work together and make this team. I've made teams that've peaked ladders in NU, the only metagame I actually liked, and I've done pretty well in almost every smashboards pokemon tournament I've ever entered.

tl;dr WE'RE ALL BASICALLY THE SAME LEVEL

edit: that set doesn't have the necessary muscle to get past physical walls. It's outsped by every single OU dragon with no speed investment, it's still weak to entry hazards meaning its great HP investment is marginalized, etc. It loses its way to beat Ferrothorn and even things like Porygon2, meaning that against the walls it's supposed to beat it'll just get stuck paralyzed and die. the coverage is not the problem, it's the lack of power on the threats it is designed to hit.

 

[IceArrow]

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 218-257 (66.66 - 78.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kyurem-B is only used because he can use Ice and Electric attacks and he is a great counter to rain teams. With the abundance of 100 base speed pokemon, why use 2 pokemon who just miss breaking the 100 speed group? If you are using Landorus-T who has the strongest earthquake in OU then why do you guys think that a Special-biased mix with Earth Power would be effective? Skarmory is Landorus' best counter so why use a Kyurem-B set without Fusion Bolt because without Fusion Bolt neither of them can counter Skarmory?

 

[Riddle]

I think weatherless is the way to go with this team. It doesn't benefit much from any particular weather as it is, and the extra damage of sand really limits Kyurem's use in conjunction with Life Orb recoil and entry hazards. In addition, I don't feel any of the weather starters have much to add to the team in its current state.

If we do decide to go weatherless, I think that Heatran would be a solid choice for the third position (assuming that we've agreed to Landorus-T). Heatran is by far the best check to sun, which must be accounted for in teambuilding if we use no other weather. In addition it serves as a good switch in to many of the pokemon that threaten or wall Kyurem, particularly steels.

@Ice Arrow: Ice Beam does more to Skarmory than Fusion Bolt does.

 

[IceArrow]

Heatran is extremely slow as well.

 

[UltiMario]

Because the other Pokemon will patch up the speed issue.

Lando opens opportunities for Kyu-B, especially when it comes to countering Terrakion.

Kyu-B is used because he is a bulky ****** with 700 BST and can hit incredibly hard from both sides. The merits to physically base mixed is that Outrage/Dclaw hits hard and Fusion Bolt hits a bunch of stuff neutral (also being his only usable physical coverage). Specially based mixed basically does the same thing as MixMence, hits EVERYTHING incredibly hard (which is why I suggest Outrage > DClaw) and surprises people that try to switch in physical walls and get Meteored or something. Nothing particularly stops (Outrage) Special Mix that doesn't already stop Physical or Physical Mix, and it beats some stuff anything short of CB can't stop on the Physical end (hippo).

EP Lando-T is basically a strawman to show you don't understand why the set is good. Everyone but you agrees that the set is good. If you're going to throw a fit over a single disagreement and try and throw fallacies out to try and win an argument then it's not worth our time to deal with you. We've explained our collective reasoning enough vs your lone reasoning. If you want to keep arguing over this detail then we're just going to ignore you.

 

[Circa]

I got respect from Kevin Garrett once.

Get on my level.

 

[Riddle]

The basketball player?

Oh, I'm dumb.

 

[IceArrow]

Ulti, you are one of the main reasons why people left the Pokecenter. Your terrible attitude and rude behavior over something extremely small is what makes people leave. Majority left because you were extremely rude during tournaments and every single thread has you arguing with people telling them they are wrong.

Landorus-T is only opening 1 opportunity for Kyurem-B and that is countering Terrakion (barely). Kyurem-B is good because of its 170 Attack. That **** is broken. Why use a set that focuses on his weaker Special Attack stat? I don't think you explained once why you should use Fusion Bolt anyways. You can't just say that the other pokemon will patch up the speed without giving any explanation when every other pokemon suggestion besides Keldeo which you rejected is incredibly slow.

 

[UltiMario]

In other news, does everyone agree on adding Lando-T?

If so, what about the spread I suggested to hybrid the speed and the standard set's bulk?

 

[Riddle]

What specifically does the speed do?

 

[UltiMario]

Outpaces paraflinch rachi and max speed ttar.

Maybe run 108 speed to outpace the prefab Jirachi spread PS suggests and people use that because it's like 8 EVs away from the standard spread and nobody cares when they can just click the button.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I leave for 3 hours to go to the movies and this is what I come back to? The movie after the movie. I need more popcorn...

But in all seriousness no more personal attacks everyone. Keep the arguments about the teambuilding NOT the posters.

Whatever, it doesn't seem like this project will be successful at all based on the obvious flaws in the first 2 pokemon.

You seem to really have something against Landorus T... Please explain why it's such a "flawed" Pokemon.

You really do come off as a bit clueless here because the last time I checked it's in the top 15 most used by players with a rating of 1850 or higher (you know... the people that actually know what the **** they're doing). In the month of June it was #14 only behind Landorus Incarnate himself. With the Landorus ban it'll probably rise even higher.

I mean **** it's common sense here... It's the best damn defensive pivot in the OU metagame and grants the player momentum in ways nothing else can really replicate. In terms of synergy it covers Kyu-B's weaknesses to faster physical attackers such as Terrakion, Scizor, and Breloom, it provides the much needed Stealth Rocks, and most of all it gives Kyu-B multiple opportunities to safely come in and wreck stuff thanks to U-Turn... One of the best moves in the metagame.

What is there not to like about this pairing? Am I missing something?

 

[mood4food77]

so why was lando-I banned? i never thought he was really that good of a poke..i mean good but banworthy?

 

[UltiMario]

Edit: I posted in the wrong place and have nothing to contribute

yaaaaay

 

[kirbyraeg]

Landorus-T is only opening 1 opportunity for Kyurem-B and that is countering Terrakion (barely). Kyurem-B is good because of its 170 Attack. That **** is broken. Why use a set that focuses on his weaker Special Attack stat? I don't think you explained once why you should use Fusion Bolt anyways. You can't just say that the other pokemon will patch up the speed without giving any explanation when every other pokemon suggestion besides Keldeo which you rejected is incredibly slow.

Landorus-T provides a good soft switch in to quite a few things that might take advantage of kyu-b. Terrakion, Salamence, Garchomp are all very threatening and are also faster, and if we don't want to eat a Mach Punch from Breloom/Conkeldurr or Bullet Punch from Scizor, Lando-T gives us a nice buffer switch. Intimidate > greater offensive power and speed when trying to protect something that has all the nice power already. It also can be a pinch check vs. some Dragon Dancers/Swords Dancers, as the intimidate gives Kyu-B a buffer to take it out with Ice Beam/Outrage.

Fusion Bolt is a drawback-free move vs. rain but isn't actually necessary for it to help out vs. rain. With SpAtk investment, it can 2hko standard Ferrothorn with Ice Beam after SR. It 2hko's Tentacruel with Earth Power, can 1hko non-spdef versions of Politoed after SR with Draco Meteor, 2hko's water walls like Jellicent and Vaporeon with Draco Meteor+Outrage or two Draco Meteors in a row, even after burn. The special attack bias means we get more mileage out of Ice Beam, which is a stronger neutral hit against most opponents, and for resists we can hit them with the appropriate move. Physical Kyu-B has to avoid locking itself into Outrage, while Special can spam Ice Beam and then hit any steel that switches in to wall Ice Beam with Earth Power or any Water type with draco meteor. The exception to that is Keldeo, but its only move that can beat kyu-b is sacred sword, which can be taken advantage of.

 

[IceArrow]

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 920-1087 (260.62 - 307.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 463-546 (130.79 - 154.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 234-281 (66.47 - 79.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Kyurem-B Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 369-437 (107.58 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Tentacruel: 364-429 (100 - 117.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO

All of these pokemon it will take Specially Biased an extra turn to get the kill. With the exception of Scizor for which it will take a 3HKO. Landorus-T can't help Kyurem-B with a lot of these pokemon as well. Gliscor is far superior at supporting Kyurem-B than Landorus.