The ultimate community collaboration/competition: Team PC vs PS

[Circa]

No comments on Magnezone?

I was meaning to ask what set you had in mind, personally. I don't know what your plans were, but I was going to recommend ScarfZone so he could count as an extra answer to Keldeo, as well as handling most Steels as-is (except specially defensive Heatran, which this team is looking like it may have issues with if we don't find an answer by the end).

However, we'd still have a problem with Latios as IceArrow mentioned, to which I simply think we need a Pursuit user that can pretty much handle any Latios set you throw at it. And I do mean any, by the way. Like, it should be able to take a +1 LO-boosted Surf in the Rain kind of ****. I'll post what I had in mind once others throw around ideas, assuming everyone thinks this is worth looking into.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I was thinking the standard choice scarf set. And I don't think there's any Purisit trappers that can really counter Latios like that unfortunately.

 

[kirbyraeg]

latios counters are hard to come by. one of the best is probably jirachi, especially since it can also paralyze it or u-turn out to maintain advantage. chansey doesn't fit well on this team, but it is another good counter because of raw bulk. rain-boosted surf is very hard to defeat, but we have to think of pokemon that can switch into one dm for free. scarf scizor is gimmicky as hell but would be a great way to catch latios by surprise. we could go into the lower tiers and run something like Empoleon or Registeel, both of whom would be retardedly good latios counters at the expense of sucking against everything else. ferrothorn is good against latios IF we make this a rain team and run politoed. etc.

edit: about magnezone, I really don't think we should use a choiced set. I remember Ulti posting a set a while ago with Psych Up that looked interesting, so if we really felt the need for magnezone we could use that, i guess

 

[UltiMario]

Hey guys can we just like add Heatran and Starmie or something and call it a day?

They basically have perfect synergy with Kyu-B/Lando-T.

Starmie helps patch up the speed, provides a spinner and another water resist.

Heatran (w/ Balloon) can counter sun so we won't have to worry about that sweeping us (any weatherless team without Heatran is going to be sun weak btw unless you use like Band Mamoswine and choiced Mamoswine is awful).

we can just run standard SpD Tran (maybe run like Lava Plume/EP/Roar/[Sub/Toxic]) and then whatever variant of starmie that works as long as it has rapid spin.

If we do add those we need a Scarfer + something else.

 

[Circa]

I didn't do all the checks for it since I didn't have time before going to work, but I think a properly built Metagross can handle just about any Latios set; or at least it can handle the kind this team would potentially have a problem with if we added ScarfZone.

Item choice can also let it beat other threats, so there's that too.

I just really like Metagross, tbh.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Unfortunately Metagross is a pretty crap Pokemon in this metagame. I'm honestly not sure if I've seen a single successful Gen 5 OU team utilize Metagross.

 

[IceArrow]

Ya Metagross isn't good anymore. I'm surprised its still in OU to be honest. It is the best counter to Latios but it still isn't good. Kirby, that Psych Up set is mainly used for countering Jirachi. Otherwise it isn't a good set and this team already has ways to defeat Jirachi. Also is this team using Stealth Rock or Gravity Landorus-T? Ulti, if you are using Rapid Spin Starmie which is a good choice then I would suggest Volcarona over Heatran.

Also the extremely common Tyranitar and Keldeo combo defeats this team so far.

Your team so far

Spoiler

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 Atk / 156 HP / 104 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Roar

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

What I think would be better

Spoiler

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 Atk / 156 HP / 104 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Breloom (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin

 

[mood4food77]

doesn't heatran really hurt your team....like really bad

 

[IceArrow]

Starmie, Landorus, and Breloom all can deal with Heatran. Not really Breloom but its Mach Punch will do a lot.

 

[UltiMario]

I actually don't support Latias. Assuming we pick up starmie, I really don't think there's a lot of room to use it.

If we don't pick up starmie, on the other hand, then Latias would be a good option.

 

[IceArrow]

Starmie is 10 times better then Latias.

 

[mood4food77]

i agree, starmie works well against keldeo (although i'm pretty sure keldeo's hydro pump still does a good chunk of damage), latias doesn't provide much help right now

 

[IceArrow]

dead .

 

[UltiMario]

dead .

[9:27:22 PM] Riddle: the irony of IA complaining that the ccat is dead

sums it up pretty well

Starmie@Life Orb
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Natural Cure
-Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
-Recover
-Rapid Spin

les do eet

 

[IceArrow]

Lol, it's not complaining at all. Just stating a fact.

 

[mood4food77]

i approve, so we got kyurem-B, lando-T, and starmie

what else do we need? do we want a revenge killer, someone with SR, etc.

probably want a fire attack so either volc or heatran, and i'm leaning towards heatran as he also can be used to set up SR while covering kyurem's weaknesses

 

[IceArrow]

LandoT has rocks. Volcarona is better because we already have Rapid Spin Starmie. Also Volcarona is faster.

 

[mood4food77]

forgot lando has rocks

volc's speed will probably help us more, i feel a quiver dance set would probably work better

 

[IceArrow]

Every Volcarona has Quiver Dance.

 

[mood4food77]

well...apparently so (i didn't know this, probably should've assumed)

 

[The Real Gamer]

Sorry I've been a bit MIA these past few days something came up recently that's sidetracked my plans to say the least. I'm still here for the long run though.

Glad to see this thread has spawned so much activity though.

 

[mood4food77]

so volcarona it is then?

 

[UltiMario]

Having a team that only has 4 Pokemon and loses its entire offensive core when Rocks are up is the epitome of a bad idea.

Just because Starmie is on this team doesn't mean it's allowed to have a giant sr weakness.

 

[IceArrow]

The point is to have a team semi weak to SR and then have a spinner which can defeat most spin blockers to provide excellent team support and offensive power.

 

[UltiMario]

The idea is that the strategy you're mentioning isn't a good one.

A team with no back-up plan, or a team that loses to any team with Pursuit + Ghost type, are bad teams. Hell, we end up losing to Pursuit carrying teams in general. Starmie can't spin fearing getting trapped, making the team worthless. TTar and Scizor being 2 of the most common Pokemon in the metagame makes that awful.

 

[IceArrow]

Yes but we have Volcarona and Landorus to counter those 2 pursuit users. Also I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure Starmie can Surf twice to kill both those threats since Starmie is faster. Starmie is an amazing late game sweeper which is why you don't waste Starmie early on and have Rocks on your side for the rest of the game. Spinners like Donphan and Forretress are killed near the beginning of the game but Starmie is commonly most used as a late game spinner/sweeper. This team also has the tools to greatly capitalize on the turn it takes the opponent to set up Rocks.

 

[UltiMario]

You can't use Volc to counter pursuit users since you'd need to double switch to bring it in, which means you'll be taking SR damage. On top of that, you'd need HPump to get those 2HKOs.

Also Starmie could clean weakened teams late game in Gen IV. In Gen V, it doesn't have the power to do that without rain support. 100 SpA simply can't dent stuff in this metagame. Hell, Donphan even hits harder than it if rain isn't up.

 

[mood4food77]

instead of deciding between heatran and volcarona, why don't we decide what steel type we're going to use

 

[CRASHiC]

I've never liked people saying "counter pursuit users" because they've likely already done their job. Unless you're forcing them out to setup a sweep, you aren't really accomplishing much other than trading 1v1 and losing tempo.

 

[IceArrow]

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 200-238 (58.3 - 69.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 242-289 (59.9 - 71.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lol, they can't switch in on Starmie.

 

[Circa]

Your calculation is off there, boy-o. You forgot to include Sandstorm as weather for Tyranitar. You know, because he runs that and it happens when he switches in and stuff. Support Ttar isn't 2HKO'd unless you have SR up. Other variants are, but that doesn't really matter when they're the ones who are really going to be ruining your day to begin with.

Do people even switch in Pursuit users most of the time? I thought that was a fairy tale told to little kids so they'd be worse than their elders at Pokemon. But hey what do I know.

EDIT: Yes I do understand that there are times where one can switch in a Pursuit user and be happy about it. It just seems to me like it's almost always more advantageous to bring it in for a revenge kill...unless of course you REALLY need to save whatever it was that you're switching from. But I still don't quite see it.

 

[IceArrow]

Then lets add a Fighting type like Terrakion.

 

[UltiMario]

ScarfTar (which is gaining popularity) also can take on Starmie.

Another point is that you can't ever Rapid Spin and get these kills. Another is what Circa mentioned, where Pursuit users come in when they can (mostly on revenge) and do their job anyways.

Terrakion at best could revenge these Pursuit users since it fears Bullet Punch. Maybe Conkeldurr or something might work since you can double switch him into both Scizor and Ttar without fear.

Also sorry for ****ty calc estimates because Vacation and no laptop and not doing calcs on phone.

 

[Circa]

I'm amazed it's taken this long for ScarfTar to start gaining popularity. You'd think it would have carried over from 4th gen, considering how popular it was there at the end.

But I guess we decided to just do this whole metagame allllll over again.

 

[atangerine]

What's the current team build right now?

 

[mood4food77]

i think we have kyurem-b, landorus-t, and starmie

nothing else is agreed upon

 

[atangerine]

What are the Pokemon up for debate right now?

 

[mood4food77]

volcarona or heatran
terrakion or conkeldurr

i think...

 

[UltiMario]

I know it's a bit of an odd set but we actually could use this to patch up the pursuit weakness

Starmie@Leftovers
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid / Natural Cure
Scald
Toxic / Recover
Rapid Spin
Reflect Type

In a nutshell it lets you escape Pursuiters by copying their type, and essentially every Pursuit user resists Dark. Toxic lets you deal with Jellicent and the like by crippling them on the switch, but Recover lets Starmie tank way more. Not sure what would be more useful.

Thoughts?

 

[mood4food77]

it's cool but is it really a good set? i can see it working with the right team members