Event - Apex 2015 The SSB64 tourney is going to be a joke. We want Round Robin pools.

[CT Chia]

You're not counting all the set ups the ssb64 itself will provide.

Which will be a ton. Like last year.

We have scheduled around having 96 tournament TVs to work with, and don't feel comfortable enough to assume 112 or 128 yet. And in all honesty, if we can safely assume more set ups, PM would likely be getting a cap increase since they've kind of hit their 3rd cap now before 64 has even hit their first (and PM and 64 started at the same 128 person cap).

 

[crismas]

Do you guys have a list going of TVs being brought? I could organize that for you (as I already have a staff one going).

 

[Han Solo]

You keep mentioning "scheduled around having 96 tournament TVs", and then you say Melee and Brawl get 48 TVs each for their pools (48 * 2 = 96). So, either you're planning on taking SSB64 TVs away for use for other tournies (which has been said is not the case), or you're not including SSB64 TVs in the scheduling.

Right now 64 is scheduled to start at 4pm. If we started one wave at 10am or noon, we can run RR pools in two waves if we have our setups. You can put people who registered for multiple games in wave 1 of one game and wave 2 of another game. We have enough time. We just need to get down to top 8.






And yes, we have an Apex setup thread.

 

[bloodpeach]

All information I got from scheduling is from the official website (https://www.apex-series.com/schedule/).

If there is some other source of information tha contradicts what I said, please share it. Everyone on the staff seems to know that 64 has amazing stream time, but it seems no one has told the 64 community. I suppose that's gonna be our fault too somehow.

Also, Chibo, I appreciate that you took the time to write a response that goes beyond "No means No" and namer calling.

Reno: I'm very sorry that you dont see the difference between name calling and explaining the rationale behind a decision.

 

[crismas]

I just shared the link to the schedule... and I have no idea where you even got that link, the schedule hasn't even been posted to the site (thanks to DDoS). Actually good reminder, I'll get that up in the nav now since I'm working on other site things.

edit: THEN THE SITE WENT DOWN, ****ing A...

 

[R3N0]

All information I got from scheduling is from the official website (https://www.apex-series.com/schedule/).

If there is some other source of information tha contradicts what I said, please share it. Everyone on the staff see,s to know that 64 has amazing stream time, but it seems no one has told the 64 community. I suppose that's gonna be our fault too somehow.

Also, Chibo, I appreciate that you took the time to write a response that goes beyond "No means No" and namer calling.

Reno: I'm very sorry that you dont see the difference between name calling and explaining the rationale behind a decision.

This was posted 30 minutes ago. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0rI_h-FooBPUWlid0k1YzFPNEU/edit

I explained to you why no means no in a lengthy post you may or may not have read. In the end the meaning hasn't changed. No still means no.

Bloodpeach: No worries, I may not, according to you, understand the difference between name calling and explaining the rationale behind a decision. You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.

The fact remains still however, http://youtu.be/7S94ohyErSw?t=1m31s [You Can't Always Get What You Want]

 

[bloodpeach]

Reno, do you really not understand the difference between a flat out denial and an explanation? An explanation is what Chibo posted. I hope this helps you in future if you ever find yourself being forced to have an adult conversation. It's really not that hard once you get the hang of it.

Thanks again Chibo for actually providing some rationale. And thank you Crismas for getting complete schedule. I hope you guys get it up on the website soon, cause since the doc show up in google, more people will make my mistake and trust the schedule up there now.

 

[trash?]

"you should try to have ADULT CONVERSATION" said the person who flat-out lied when saying "they're screwing us over" when even the most basic of research would explain any whines made pretty succinctly

I feel kinda bad for han solo b/c at least he's progressively saying "well, what could we do to help this happen", you're just pretending everyone's out to get you

 

[Cobrevolution]

yeah, i went on a rant on facebook, not solo. if you expect an apology, that isn't happening; i put it on facebook because i didn't want to put it here, where it would very obviously detract from the discussion at hand. i had an entire list made of snarky comments that i was going to post to perfectly highlight my point. i deleted it because that wouldn't do anything besides prove me right and that sort of thing doesn't really matter when it comes to talking about our event.

what i will say is: chibo, i would really appreciate it if, from now on, there are questions or concerns from the 64 community about an event like this (zenith, for example), you would be the one to convey the messages.

for very obvious reasons.

anyway, glad we're seen as whiny entitled victims now.

thanks a bunch, everyone, for your responses, staff and players alike. <3

 

[crismas]

Well, I guess I could just delete that page. The schedule for the site will just link to the PDF google doc I just posted. It wasn't intended that anyone could see that link (since it was taken down earlier in the year). Any ideas where you might've obtained that btw? I could kinda guide people to the right direction of the schedule

 

[R3N0]

Reno, do you really not understand the difference between a flat out denial and an explanation?.

I gave you the short answer. Then I gave you the extended answer and refuted all the claims. Truthfully I didn't have the information Chibo presented so thanks for that. An adult conversation was had, until I could no longer have an adult conversation because it is evident that you whine like entitled children.

@Cobr_evolution I don't want an apology. Frankly, I don't really care. I don't know who you are and I don't associate with the 64 community, so your opinion really doesn't matter to me. I was merely trying to lighten the load off of a fellow APEX staff member's back because you wouldn't take his word for it either considering he is the liaison between the 64 community and APEX. I gave you answers you were looking for and the explanation. You didn't like it, and the answer was still no.

So you can hold that L. If you're not in top 8 making $ you might as well be last. Get there by winning, it's as simple as that.

 

[trash?]

"glad we're seen as whiny entitled victims now"

no, you ARE

you ARE entitled and whiny for pretending you somehow deserve more than games triple your size, you ARE entitled and whiny for thinking you deserved to be catered to, you ARE entitled and whiny for, when someone tells you things you don't like to hear, you kick and scream as if you're an oppressive minority and not a group of god damn people playing a video game

there is no "seen as" here. you, and everyone who has acted like you are an embarrassment to the community you supposedly represent

 

[bloodpeach]

crismas I just googled Apex 2014 Schedule. It was the first result.

 

[crismas]

Oh god. Well that's kinda bad, I'll just delete the page. Ty!

 

[Gammelnorsk]

wat a bunch of stupid noobs

 

[kys]

About all of this "entitled children talk":
I'm all against entitlement culture, but you guys should understand that Apex is an awesome tournament. It's run well and provides some hype matches. This being the case, players from all over the world and country come here and spend a LOT of money coming here. So yeah, there is a sense of entitlement, if only because past experiences have been amazing. You should all take this as a compliment. It's kinda like going to a restaurant, spending a lot of money and then expecting good service and good food. Entitlement? Yeah, a little, but there's also an expected value that comes with the expected experience and spending large amounts of money.

I'm not even going to Apex so I won't get into some of the details, but I give mad respect to Chibo for giving a great answer.

Generally speaking, it's annoying when event organizers (and I mean any event), refuse to take a microscope and allow themselves to be flexible. I understand it's hard work and it's easier to make uniform and hard rules, but you usually end up shafting someone somewhere, when a little more work and discretion could avoid these conflicts altogether. My 2 cents

That is all. Props to Alex Strife for running an amazing tournament. I'm busy Apex weekend, but I'm going to avoid spoilers and watch the archives with a large pizza and a twelve pack directly in front of me. G'luck to all my 64 peeps, especially Sheer, Tanklin, and Mr. Marbles!

 

[Mr Bushido]

This reno person makes me angry

Edit: i dont like Canon either

 

[smashmachine]

what's the stream schedule anyway, if 64 is getting the main stream Saturday then this talk about getting gimped stream time is even more absurd than it already is

 

[CT Chia]

It's all here: https://www.apex-series.com/Apex2014Schedule.pdf

It gets main stage on Saturday, but it's at 10am - though that's really the only feasible time we can have it

 

[smashmachine]

It's all here: https://www.apex-series.com/Apex2014Schedule.pdf

It gets main stage on Saturday, but it's at 10am - though that's really the only feasible time we can have it

that doesn't really tell me which stream is showing what games though
although main stage+main stream? that's already more than evo would ever give to a game with less than 1/3 of the main entries

 

[R3N0]

Spooky, which is highlighted in Red, is the main stream. On Friday SSB64 will be run on 8wayrun.

 

[Han Solo]

Since no one responded to this, I'm reposting it.

You keep mentioning "scheduled around having 96 tournament TVs", and then you say Melee and Brawl get 48 TVs each for their pools (48 * 2 = 96). So, either you're planning on taking SSB64 TVs away for use for other tournies (which has been said is not the case), or you're not including SSB64 TVs in the scheduling.

Right now 64 is scheduled to start at 4pm. If we started one wave at 10am or noon, we can run RR pools in two waves if we have our setups. You can put people who registered for multiple games in wave 1 of one game and wave 2 of another game. We have enough time. We just need to get down to top 8.

Also, I couldn't care less about stream time. My original post didn't even mention it. We could get every single set streamed or nothing at all, and I would be fine with it. It's the schedule that has always been the problem. If we have our own setups, why are we scheduled to start at 4pm on Friday? What's wrong with starting earlier? Will there not be enough room in the venue? Will there not be enough tables? All the reasons given thus far have been "bracket pools for uniformity" or "that's what has been scheduled." Schedules can be changed. It's not really uniformity if the size of our tourney is much smaller than the others. 64 getting RR pools isn't unfair if every other game gets more entrants, more prizes, more stream time. The 64 tournament can start before the allotted stream time too.

Look, I love Apex. Apex 2013 was one of the best weekends of my life. You have a chance to make the 64 community's experience a whole lot better if we had a RR pools tourney. No one is going to complain about having RR pools. We had a poll on "64 Discussion" and the majority of people want RR pools. The reason why I've been so adamant about this is because it seems like the reason we can't have RR pools is simply "Apex Staff doesn't want a RR pools tourney" even if we have the ability to run one.

 

[Nintendude]

You may not care about stream time but a lot of us do. Stream time is the only significant way to pump new life into this game and SSB64 should be grateful that they are getting significantly more than last year. It's time to drop the RR pools discussion. The response you've gotten a hundred times is that it is an executive decision that was made. It doesn't matter anymore how justifiable it is, or whether it makes perfect sense or not. The decision will never be reversed and you need to accept it. How do you know you don't like bracket pools anyway? The community has never had them before. Hell, half of the community had no idea what RR pools even were until Zenith. You tried them and you liked them. Now do the same for bracket pools.

 

[mixa]

How do you know you don't like bracket pools anyway?

— Son, you're not leaving this table until you try these delicious bracket pools.

 

[Han Solo]

Nintendude, where did I say I was ungrateful for stream time? I said I'm fine with any stream time. 9 hours is more than we could ask for. I specifically didn't mention it in the first post because I wasn't ungrateful.

I accepted our fate days ago, but I don't have to like it. I know I won't like bracket pools because it's shortening the biggest North American 64 tourney to 6 hours on Friday.

 

[Nintendude]

Nintendude, where did I say I was ungrateful for stream time?

Also, I couldn't care less about stream time. My original post didn't even mention it. We could get every single set streamed or nothing at all, and I would be fine with it.

And I actually said "not care about stream time"

Semantics... yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Han Solo]

You're focusing on something that isn't the issue here. The amount of stream time we're getting was never a problem for me.

Do you not like RR pools, Nintendude? Do you prefer bracket pools? Do you prefer a 6 hour tourney because it's less work for you? This is such an easy thing to change.

 

[Nintendude]

I like both bracket pools and RR pools, for different reasons. As a player, I like RR pools because I get to play against a bigger variety of people. Also as a player, I like bracket pools because it trims the fat and I get straight to playing the opponents that really matter for my success. As a spectator, I like RR pools because I see some matchups I might not otherwise see. However, I also like bracket pools as a spectator because it's more clear cut when there's something huge on the line during a match. It's really well defined when it's like, this match is losers's finals of this pool, so elimination from the tournament is on the line. That generates a lot of hype.

There also seems to be some misconception that a longer tournament is inherently better. This is obviously not always true (just look at extreme cases), but where you draw the line in length is not clear. I'd argue that RR tourneys are pushing the limits of what is acceptably long.

So try having an open mind. You tried RR pools for the first time and you liked it. You may find that the same is true for bracket pools.

 

[smashmachine]

Spooky, which is highlighted in Red, is the main stream. On Friday SSB64 will be run on 8wayrun.

....that definitely looks like its color-coded by game, not stream
unless Melee is really the only game using the main stream

 

[Strong Badam]

^Scroll down to page 2.

deleted message

Why exactly is a moderator making jokes like this...? Don't see what this comment was supposed to add to the discussion, like, at all.

 

[Sangoku]

Oh well I guess you're right. I knew I shouldn't have made such a joke outside the 64 section where we're more lenient. I'm sorry for that last post and for this one which doesn't contribute either. I'll stop posting here lol.

 

[MrMarbles]

^Scroll down to page 2.

Why exactly is a moderator making jokes like this...? Don't see what this comment was supposed to add to the discussion, like, at all.

no need to attack Sangoku, he's a great mod. Its not like there's anything left to contribute to this discussion anyways. Both sides have stated their case and it's over as far as i can tell. Sangoku was probably trying to break the tension from all the rage in this thread