The sonic hate...

[UrbanPwner]

Why is this a thing? I know it happens for more than just sonic but as a sonic player, it makes me feel bad.

 

[cstonic]

Yeah, I noticed this too. At this point, I've kinda just have gotten used to it
Though here are some reasons I've came across

-Not many people know how to deal with him, so hate can stem from not understanding the match up. Sonic is one of those characters that, in order to keep up with him, you need to know the match up.

-A lot of Sonic's moves are spin dashes or spinning actions, which can be confusing

-Sonic can punish almost anything if he's within decent range, so the player needs to always play on their toes and be careful

-Sonic's killing problems can create time outs, which can be frustating.

-Sonic's victory animations and taunts are really snooty (I love this lmaoooo)

-They're scrublords that don't want to learn


tldr
they're too slow

 

[UrbanPwner]

yea i have a tough time killing my opponent sometimes, never timed someone out tho. the complaints i see are really stupid like that. sonic time outs feel like a thing from brawl, i dont really see them here. besides just because someone gets punished for being dumb is no reason to hate, just means play smarter, same for people who dont know the match up. personally i think most people dislike him because his moves look alike but for sonic players we can tell the difference. out of all of the considered "spam" characters, (Links,Samus,DuckHunt,Mario,Sheik) people just chose sonic as the one to bash on the most.

 

[Sensane]

It's mostly because people just dont like fighting Sonic players, especially if they do nothing but spam side b. He's also one of those characters who people call a "braindead character" despite the fact that he has some ATs that are tricky to pull off at first.

 

[Buffoon]

Spoiler

I'm loving Sonic in Sm4sh, forget the haters.

 

[mario123007]

Spoiler

I'm loving Sonic in Sm4sh, forget the haters.

So do I, Sonic is a fast character, but not hard to deal with if you know the MU.

 

[Camalange]

Relevant.

Spoiler: WARNING: Mild profanity

I ranted about this on Twitter and apparently people liked it, so... Maybe this will help some of you.

Also remember, the same people who say Sonic is braindead are the same people that literally have no clue how he works or what the difference between Side-B and Down-B is.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

tldr
they're too slow

Do the responsible thing and tell them to c'mon and step it up

 

[Sensane]

Sonic wasn't that unviable in Brawl. Sure, he had trouble killing, and he was bad before Brawl's meta fully developed, but he still has some redeeming qualities.

 

[jaimex2]

"Your hate sustains me" is my favourite thing to say before a bair KO.

 

[bsjkupo]

Relevant.

Spoiler: WARNING: Mild profanity

I ranted about this on Twitter and apparently people liked it, so... Maybe this will help some of you.

Also remember, the same people who say Sonic is braindead are the same people that literally have no clue how he works or what the difference between Side-B and Down-B is.

Well put!

And now I have to follow you on twitter XD

 

[Camalange]

Well put!

And now I have to follow you on twitter XD

Thanks!

^_^

 

[Sensane]

Kinda sucks that I dont have a twitter.

 

[Camalange]

Kinda sucks that I dont have a twitter.

That's okay. You have a Smashboards!

 

[KyroChao]

They just need to git gud

In all seriousness it used to make me salty then i got over myself and I just smile at it. If i'm in a particularly good mood i'll offer a match with them and most of them don't do too well

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Sonic is boss

 

[YoYoFantaFanta]

Just tell them to shut up or try to prove them wrong

They also sometimes hate Sonic because of the stereotype that all modern Sonic games suck.

Same logic applies there.

 

[Effay]

I hate Sonic because he's fast and I hate getting punished by him.
Although really, I've never faced a good Sonic player to this day. I've played against good players with bad Sonic secondaries, and that's as close to a good Sonic as I'll face. Even then, I still lose, just because Sonic.

 

[Camalange]

Even then, I still lose, just because I'm bad.

Ah, I see.

 

[Effay]

Ah, I see.

That was immature, and even disrespectful, and you're just increasing my hatred for the character, and probably the players too.
Being bad at a matchup doesn't make you bad as a player, especially when it's Sonic, who's only double the stupidity of trying to play against him.

 

[Camalange]

That was immature, and even disrespectful, and you're just increasing my hatred for the character, and probably the players too.
Being bad at a matchup doesn't make you bad as a player, especially when it's Sonic, who's only double the stupidity of trying to play against him.

I think I understand now.

 

[Effay]

I think I understand now.

I only wish you did.
In which case, you might have sympathy for anyone you play against.

 

[Camalange]

I only wish you did.

I understand that you somehow don't equate player skill with player knowledge, which would encompass match-ups.

I also understand that you have never played a good Sonic, which is your own testament, not mine.

I also understand that you main Fox and Sheik, according to your signature, which are characters that do perfectly fine, if not also beat Sonic.

Thus, I understand you should better yourself as a player and learn the match-up more intensively if you wish to make such claims. Until then, you can simply continue to get upset over things you don't understand, as human history shows is a common route to take.

In which case, you might have sympathy for anyone you play against.

You'll get no sympathy from me.

 

[Morbi]

I understand that you somehow don't equate player skill with player knowledge, which would encompass match-ups.

I also understand that you have never played a good Sonic, which is your own testament, not mine.

I also understand that you main Fox and Sheik, according to your signature, which are characters that do perfectly fine, if not also beat Sonic.

Thus, I understand you should better yourself as a player and learn the match-up more intensively if you wish to make such claims. Until then, you can simply continue to get upset over things you don't understand, as human history shows is a common route to take.

You'll get no sympathy from me.

I honestly do not understand the claim that he has never played against a good Sonic, and yet he still manages to lose. To me, that seems like self-referential incoherence at its finest or hyperbole induced by salt. Regardless, if a bad Sonic beats you consistently, it is probably not a bad Sonic... Unless you are bad.

 

[Camalange]

I honestly do not understand the claim that he has never played against a good Sonic, and yet he still manages to lose. To me, that seems like self-referential incoherence at its finest or hyperbole induced by salt. Regardless, if a bad Sonic beats you consistently, it is probably not a bad Sonic... Unless you are bad.

It's one thing to dislike a character, which is totally valid. I have my characters I hate playing against too, but the attempt to validate it is confusing, as you suggest.

What really throws me for a loop is that people should be apologetic for playing a video game? Especially when it's typed out by someone who uses the best character in the game.

 

[Effay]

I honestly do not understand the claim that he has never played against a good Sonic, and yet he still manages to lose. To me, that seems like self-referential incoherence at its finest or hyperbole induced by salt. Regardless, if a bad Sonic beats you consistently, it is probably not a bad Sonic... Unless you are bad.

lol k
I rarely play with Fox or Sheik, and use Zelda most of the time. I encounter Zelda vs Sonic a LOT, and if you dont understand the pain of the matchup, then dont even respond to this message

 

[Camalange]

lol k
I rarely play with Fox or Sheik, and use Zelda most of the time. I encounter Zelda vs Sonic a LOT, and if you dont understand the pain of the matchup, then dont even respond to this message

I suggest updating your signature.

On second thought, I suggest updating your main.

 

[Effay]

On second thought, I suggest updating your main.

Same advice to you (:

 

[KyroChao]

The salt is real

It's one thing to dislike a character, which is totally valid. I have my characters I hate playing against too, but the attempt to validate it is confusing, as you suggest.

What really throws me for a loop is that people should be apologetic for playing a video game? Especially when it's typed out by someone who uses the best character in the game.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

lololol

Spin2salt pls

 

[Gregory2590]

The Sonic hate is real. I can't go a day on Anther's without seeing someone in the chat making a jab at Sonic. I even saw a gold player with the description of "Zero Tolerance for laggy Sonics."

let's just ignore the fact that we're absolutely SCREWED in lag. I even stopped doing pivot grabs because of that.

 

[IblisTriggersPuppet]

The salt is too fast on some people I guess

 

[louie g]

Why is this a thing? I know it happens for more than just sonic but as a sonic player, it makes me feel bad.

Yo man, don't feel bad, feel empowered. You're the master of a character that causes so much controversy, so much emotion, so much frustration, over having nothing but pure, and raw speed.

That's it. That's what makes him such a big deal, is that he's so overwhelmingly swift. They're crying over such a simple thing, that's yet so effective!

 

[jaimex2]

So whats are your favourite things to do when getting Sonic hate?

My current thing is singing the Sonic X theme over their whining.

 

[soniczx123]

So whats are your favourite things to do when getting Sonic hate?

My current thing is singing the Sonic X theme over their whining.

Smile at them and just nod.

Or just act dumb and proceed to beat them.

 

[CryoGX]

Let the salt empower you.

Sonic fuels himself primarily on chili dogs to get him through almost every task. Do you know why?

Because of the high amount of sodium each one contains!

Others' salt will only make things taste more delicious for Sonic. As it empowers him, it will empower you. Never take it poorly, my friends.

*edit: this thread is gold

 

[Camalange]

So whats are your favourite things to do when getting Sonic hate?

Win.

 

[33percentgod]

I wouldn't say I necessarily hate Sonic (the only character I actually hate in this game is Rosalina.)

I just can't stand fighting him because I feel like he has no consequences to any of his moves. You can just keep spamming the dash ball attack and he can attack IMMEDIATELY after. Why? I have no idea. Yoshi is the same way. They never get punished for any of their moves. They can throw out a move, hit a shield or the person can dodge, and he has 0 animation lag and can just throw out another move ASAP. Couple that up with how fast he is makes the MU completely irritating and makes you feel like the char is completely unbalanced.

For example, I main Bowser, If I throw out a move and you shield it, I get punished. Why? It was the wrong judgement and I have to pay for the mistake. It's simple mechanics. Say I throw F-tilt. Well, now I have to wait for Bowser's arm to come back and to regain control of my character which takes a second. Sonic hits someone, they shield, and then he IMMEDIATELY regains control and can just keep throwing out move after move after move with no consequence. That's for me, personally, why I can't stand fighting Sonic. Same goes for Yoshi.

 

[Rubiss]

I wouldn't say I necessarily hate Sonic (the only character I actually hate in this game is Rosalina.)

I just can't stand fighting him because I feel like he has no consequences to any of his moves. You can just keep spamming the dash ball attack and he can attack IMMEDIATELY after. Why? I have no idea. Yoshi is the same way. They never get punished for any of their moves. They can throw out a move, hit a shield or the person can dodge, and he has 0 animation lag and can just throw out another move ASAP. Couple that up with how fast he is makes the MU completely irritating and makes you feel like the char is completely unbalanced.

For example, I main Bowser, If I throw out a move and you shield it, I get punished. Why? It was the wrong judgement and I have to pay for the mistake. It's simple mechanics. Say I throw F-tilt. Well, now I have to wait for Bowser's arm to come back and to regain control of my character which takes a second. Sonic hits someone, they shield, and then he IMMEDIATELY regains control and can just keep throwing out move after move after move with no consequence. That's for me, personally, why I can't stand fighting Sonic. Same goes for Yoshi.

I dislike Yoshi and Sheik for that very reason. If feels as if everything they do is safe on shield and their OOS options are almost their entire move arsenal. It's not entirely true, but their frame data is rather amazing. As for Sonic though, he is annoying to fight against. I don't think anyone can really deny that. His game involves speeding around the stage and waiting for punishes pretty much. No one really enjoys fighting against a character who is pretty much waiting. Sonic is deceptive. With his speed, you think he's just going to rush you down, but it's actually a lie. He zips around doing safe moves and waits for you to mess up. A match against Sonic almost always takes a long time and he is very good at pressuring and baiting opponents. When you use a slower character without a projectile, yeah Sonic has a pretty easy time, assuming the skill level is the same.

I think people hate Sonic because most Sonic players, including players like Nairo, seemingly spam spin dash. Most players can't tell the difference between down B and side B, so it looks like Sonic is just spamming. To be fair, a lot of Sonic's game is dash grabs, dash attacks (for punishes), and spin dashes. Smarter Sonic's safe bair for later as they don't want it go stale and it's one of their better kill moves. For a lot of players, Sonic feels like he punishes everything you do and you can never punish him. In reality though, Sonic is just baiting you to throw unsafe moves. As for punishing Sonic, it's not easy. A lot of his stuff is safe on shield but keep in mind he can't kill you very easy. He racks up damage and zips around, but he's not going to actually finish you off very easily. He has trouble killing and if you know what moves to look out for, Sonic can't actually land a KO.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic's Uair is the only move Sonic has that has a large autocancel window. Sonic's Fair only autocancels from shorthop, and even then, all the hits won't connect on the majority of the cast due to height. Nair has low landing lag, but is super unsafe on shield. Bowser's Bair is stronger than Sonic's and autocancels out of a short hop, but has ending lag if fast fallen, same as Sonic's. Dair is... Dair. Only autocancels from a jump > Spring height and is better used as a read/punish based move or as an edgeguard tool.

Sonic's aerials are really bad for approaching. He can't safely poke with them at all. Bair has good shield stun but even then it's punishable on block in most situations. Uair autocancels but you can grab him if he does it right in front of your shield. Ftilt is probably the only move Sonic can truly poke with. We can mix-up our timing on block with jab, which is nice. We have a fast jab, but that's still a mix-up, which is punishable if we're not using it as a punish.

This is the reason Sonic's will rather wait-n-bait or do running grabs. We get great confirms off of grabs, and it's easy to run and punish something that way, or just scare you into shielding then run and grab. Our best approach is literally running shield, lol. If you toss out an option, we'll powershield it and grab OoS.

I guess I get confused when people compare Sonic's moveset like he can safely pressure you like Diddy or Sheik, who both having amazing neutral game when Sonic simply does not. Spins are only good because they have so many mix-ups on block and are fast, but frame wise every option has an answer that keeps you safe. That's again why we use it to punish (wait-n-bait) and not to actually approach. Bowser's out of shield Up-B beats it out in almost every scenario too. Especially with Bowser's buffs (Koo-Pah) he still loses that match-up but it's not that bad anymore. Sonic can overwhelm him easily because that character doesn't have many tools to deal with him up close, but Bowser is very difficult to actually kill and then we have a rage Koo-Pah where one grab kills us at 60% if we do something unsafe on shield.

Watch how 6WX plays against Vex's DK. It's the same idea. He just uses spins to weave in and out to avoid getting grabbed because he has to.