The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

I had one idea of a recovery that's a bit different.

Daisy had a high double jump but her UP-B covers no distance... because she makes a platform to stand on in mid air.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I had one idea of a recovery that's a bit different.

Daisy had a high double jump but her UP-B covers no distance... because she makes a platform to stand on in mid air.

Is it a generic mushroom platform like from Mario Party or a giant flower that serves as a platform?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Is it a generic mushroom platform like from Mario Party or a giant flower that serves as a platform?

It can be anything you want. It could even be a giant crystal if we're going for a Mario Strikers look. Or a line of SML blocks for a classic one.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

It can be anything you want. It could even be a giant crystal if we're going for a Mario Strikers look. Or a line of SML blocks for a classic one.

I like.

That would mix things up than using the Flower Glider all the time (or a generic uppercut).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Bad news, the new characters in Mario run... are different colored Yoshis.

Real "New Weapons Soldier" moment there.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Bad news, the new characters in Mario run... are different colored Yoshis.

Real "New Weapons Soldier" moment there.

Are we sure that it's not "The new characters bring multi-coloured Yoshis", instead of "The new characters are multi-coloured Yoshis"?

I ask because I've only seen the announcement in Japanese, and there's probably room for error in translating it, especially if people are relying on machine-translations.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Are we sure that it's not "The new characters bring multi-coloured Yoshis", instead of "The new characters are multi-coloured Yoshis"?

I ask because I've only seen the announcement in Japanese, and there's probably room for error in translating it, especially if people are relying on machine-translations.

My gut tells me the characters ARE the Yoshis because why make a brand new model and set of animations when you can run a texture through a hue change and call it a day. That's why we KEEP getting Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach despite them being the butt of jokes.

I'd like to be wrong.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wow, we're at four pages already? Damn.

Are we sure that it's not "The new characters bring multi-coloured Yoshis", instead of "The new characters are multi-coloured Yoshis"?

I ask because I've only seen the announcement in Japanese, and there's probably room for error in translating it, especially if people are relying on machine-translations.

I saw the original Japanese tweet and there there isn't much room for doubt.
It reads "新しいプレイキャラに色違いのヨッシーが登場！" Multiple coloured Yoshis appear as new playable characters!"

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I saw the original Japanese tweet and there there isn't much room for doubt.
It reads "新しいプレイキャラに色違いのヨッシーが登場！" Multiple coloured Yoshis appear as new playable characters!"

I know that, but the thing is, it just says that they are new playable characters, not that they're the new playable characters.

Now, don't get me wrong, just going by Mario Kart Roster Syndrome alone, not to mention the shoehorning in of the Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach pair in other games, I'm sure that these are probably all that people will get. I just don't like to write off the possibility of a little bit more, when the message can seemingly be read in a couple of ways.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Bad news, the new characters in Mario run... are different colored Yoshis.

Real "New Weapons Soldier" moment there.

I knew that things were too good to be true.

They might as well be taking the easy way out instead of putting all the extra work on unique character models for the game. Even a simple dress edit to make Daisy wouldn't be all that difficult. Oh well.

 

[Freduardo]

Man, that's a shame.

I suppose it's too much to hope for that they at least get different gameplay mechanics.

 

[FalKoopa]

I know that, but the thing is, it just says that they are new playable characters, not that they're the new playable characters.

Now, don't get me wrong, just going by Mario Kart Roster Syndrome alone, not to mention the shoehorning in of the Metal Mario and Pink Gold Peach pair in other games, I'm sure that these are probably all that people will get. I just don't like to write off the possibility of a little bit more, when the message can seemingly be read in a couple of ways.

Ah, fair enough.
Though we're less than a week away from release, so it's doubtful we have any more surprises coming our way.

I knew that things were too good to be true.

They might as well be taking the easy way out instead of putting all the extra work on unique character models for the game. Even a simple dress edit to make Daisy wouldn't be all that difficult. Oh well.

I don't really understand how Nintendo fumbled the marketing of Super Mario Run and Pokémon GO. Both the games were hits when they came out, but they did next to nothing to keep player interest going.
And it's not like they don't know how. FE Heroes's marketing has been splendid. Something or the other just keeps happening, giving players a reason to come back again and again.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I've expected a worse case scenario of a Pink Gold Peach/Metal Mario update and this is close enough.

Nintendo really dropped the ball with Super Mario Run by going for recolors instead of adding fan favorite characters. But it's best not to delve too much into it. And I thought Niantic's job with Pokemon Go's content was mediocre.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Daisy as a -like costume please. I don't want her as a separate character, ever.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Daisy as a -like costume please. I don't want her as a separate character, ever.

I wonder if Daisy as a separate character would start like that but then Skaurai gets one of those Sakurai moments and decides some part of Peach's moveset doesn't fit, changes it slightly and BAM! (semi-)clone.

Well if it could happen to a literal pallet swap...

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Daisy as a -like costume please. I don't want her as a separate character, ever.

This is rather like saying that K. Rool should be an alt for Bowser.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is rather like saying that K. Rool should be an alt for Bowser.

Give her 's moveset, replace heart effects for flowerly effects, and you have a job well done.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Give her 's moveset, replace heart effects for flowerly effects, and you have a job well done.

But Daisy has an entirely different personality and gameplay background to Peach, which Peach's-moveset-but-with-flowers wouldn't reflect. It's like saying that Rosalina would be fine as an alt for Peach, just give her ice effects instead of flowers.

Again, you and I have both seen this same argument made for K. Rool being no more than a Bowser alt before. It holds no more water with Daisy than with K. Rool.

There are ample opportunities to make Daisy an interesting fighter, which were also extended to Rosalina. Quite why the series' second princess should be relegated to a costume, but the third gets to be separate from Peach, is something I've never seen a good argument for yet, even though it's frequently suggested. Daisy's and Peach's dresses looking similar doesn't really cut it for a reason, either - I've seen that one before. So, I'm curious, why do you feel that Daisy should get the treatment that you're suggesting?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm gonna play both sides of the Daisy as costume argument

Argument: Daisy is a clone of Peach. Counter Argument: Daisy looks different and is half a head shorter than Peach. Counter-counter argument: Sakuria cares not for your heights, Lucina is taller than Robin in Smash

Argument: Daisy needs new voice work, ergo would make more sense to be a new character. Counter Argument: Robin and Corrin have two VAs for different costumes. COUNTER coutner argument: Lucina was split into her own character ecause... she is.

Argument: Daisy wouldn't stick a Toad up her dress and for him to take the bullet. Counter argument: Neither would Peach. Counter count... yeah let's just say Smash is weird.

What I'm getting at here is it could go either way but I don't think they'd put all that effort into a single alt costume. They couldn't even be bothered to give Peach Daisy's dress from Brawl onward, only a pallette swap.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

To be honest, they should have made the alt from the begging IF they really wanted it to happen (not a simple swap, but one with more work put into it). But it never did.

Honestly, anything can happen. Any character has their merits, though priority matters on the most part.

These are my thoughts on the new subject.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Most important arguement: she has never been in a Mario platformer or 3D adventure game and has always served as the 'princess number 2' in Party and Sport games to applease the female fans of the series who cannot pick Peach because their friend, cousin, sister in law, grand aunt or family dog chose to play as Peach before. She has her fans gained from over the years, sure.

But like Waluigi, she doesn't really have any moveset potential that isn't completely made up out of random apperances from rather forgetable games. Hence why I say Peach alt is as good as it gets, with her own voice clips and flowerly effects. I even think that's quite generous to be honest. She's not like Toad, who can just use stuff like the Ice Flowers or Propellor Cap because he was playable in the NSMB series (amongst things).

Rosalina always had way much more to work with, so I do not see why you people bring her up, or King K.Rool as a Bowser alt. It are completely different situations which are not comparable.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I'm gonna play both sides of the Daisy as costume argument

Argument: Daisy is a clone of Peach. Counter Argument: Daisy looks different and is half a head shorter than Peach. Counter-counter argument: Sakuria cares not for your heights, Lucina is taller than Robin in Smash

Argument: Daisy needs new voice work, ergo would make more sense to be a new character. Counter Argument: Robin and Corrin have two VAs for different costumes. COUNTER coutner argument: Lucina was split into her own character ecause... she is.

Argument: Daisy wouldn't stick a Toad up her dress and for him to take the bullet. Counter argument: Neither would Peach. Counter count... yeah let's just say Smash is weird.

What I'm getting at here is it could go either way but I don't think they'd put all that effort into a single alt costume. They couldn't even be bothered to give Peach Daisy's dress from Brawl onward, only a pallette swap.

If they wanted it they could have, but oh well, if they she at least makes it as a semi-clone I wouldn't mind at all if the differences where enough to stay true to her character.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Most important arguement: she has never been in a Mario platformer or 3D adventure game and has always served as the 'princess number 2' in Party and Sport games to applease the female fans of the series who cannot pick Peach because their friend, cousin, sister in law, grand aunt or family dog chose to play as Peach before. She has her fans gained from over the years, sure.

I must point out here that I'm a female fan of the series, and I strictly play as Bowser in the Mario ensemble games (and also formerly Diddy Kong when he was in Mario Kart). We're not some sort of alien race that only picks female characters and which needs appeasing by means such as "This character is here because someone else already chose the pink one", you know.

Additionally, Daisy's debut appearance was in Super Mario Land - the fourth platformer in the Super Mario series (released after Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2 J, and Super Mario Bros. 2 NA/EU, and before Super Mario Bros. 3). She originates from the platformer lineage.

Regardless, I don't see how either of these points should exclude Daisy from Smash - they just boil down to "She has appeared in XYZ type of games instead of ABC type of games, therefore she cannot appear". In spite of Daisy's origins in the mainline series, it is true that she's most well-known for the spin-off games these days - but Smash itself is a spin-off game, and actually a smaller one than those that Daisy normally appears in, to boot. It's not unreasonable at all for players who like a character to hope to see a character who's frequently available in most Nintendo-made spin-off titles, in another Nintendo-made spin-off title, as that character, and not as a re-skin for a different character.

But like Waluigi, she doesn't really have any moveset potential that isn't completely made up out of random apperances from rather forgetable games. Hence why I say Peach alt is as good as it gets, with her own voice clips and flowerly effects. I even think that's quite generous to be honest. She's not like Toad, who can just use stuff like the Ice Flowers or Propellor Cap because he was playable in the NSMB series (amongst things).

Daisy has plenty of moveset potential, though. You don't have to make a Frankenmoveset out of only their canonical appearances in order to represent a character in Smash - most characters in Smash don't adhere to their home-games especially strictly. I don't remember Donkey Kong flying around by spinning his body like a helicopter in any of the Donkey Kong games, for example.

Most characters have a combination of canonical moves, and moves that represent who they are, rather than strictly using things pulled wholesale from other games and cobbling them into a moveset that might not even be cohesive for the character.

Here are some examples of moves, which, to make things simpler, I'm going to approach strictly from the perspective of a Luigified semi-clone, here, since we're talking about alts;

Daisy, being tomboyish and more aggressive than the rather more reserved Peach wouldn't slap an opponent in the face - honestly, she'd be more likely to punch you in the nose. A solid punch in the nose would have a very different effect on the gameplay than a slap to the cheeks! It would do more damage and knockback, by the very nature of the sort of attack it is. This isn't from a game that Daisy's been in, just as Peach's face-slap isn't - it just shows a bit of who she is.

Peach can shove you with her butt - but why would tomboyish, showboating Daisy do that? She's more likely to pull out some sort of low-flying ball-sports type kick or somewhat show-offy karate-like kick, which, again, would have different consequences to someone attacking using their backside, which would directly affect how the move is used against opponents.

Daisy wouldn't throw vegetables - she wasn't in Super Mario Bros. 2, or any game with this mechanic at its core. A better thing for her to throw would be the Superball, which was Super Mario Land's replacement for the Fire Flower. But these wouldn't behave like vegetables, because the source-game prescribes a specific means of movement for them - they bounce along the ground, and will ricochet off of objects at right-angles. To expand on the Superball's movement (and its restrictions, such as only one being out at once, and the amount of time that it's on-screen for), and to make it more flexible for the purposes of Smash, you could make some Gordo-like tweaks to it that could change the arcs of the bounces depending on which direction, if any, you input whilst throwing one. This, again, leads to a very different functionality and very different options to Peach's vegetables, which are simply for beaning people with. Moreover, Superballs are non-solid, and dissipate upon contact with an enemy - this would mean that they can't be picked up and re-thrown in Smash, as Peach's vegetables can.

Daisy has no association with Toads, which nullifies her using Peach's counter move. Whilst I've often seen it suggested that she could pull out an enemy from Super Mario Land for a re-skinned equivalent, I've never really understood why she would: Daisy likes to get her own hands dirty - she wouldn't hide behind someone else in a fight! In my opinion, this opens up a slot for a new move that fits her better, and which isn't yet another counter; Since around a fifth of the roster already have this same move, I don't feel that we need another counter in play.

Further, Daisy hasn't ever been shown to use a parasol or have an affinity for them, to the best of my knowledge. This makes Peach's recovery move irrelevant to her. Now, Daisy originated from a Super Mario platformer that introduced two things that were new to the series - vehicles, and an end-of-round bonus-game that involved climbing ladders to reach bonus items. Daisy could throw up a ladder as a tether recovery, or use the Sky Pop plane for a vertical recovery - either one of these would fit her and work nicely, differentiating her from Peach even further.

Additionally, Luminario suggested something visual to represent Daisy's personality, recently, which would alter her dash-attack into Daisy tripping over a frayed edge of her dress - something likely to happen to a tomboyish girl who, by formal requirement, must dress "appropriately" according to her royal position. I commented then, and reiterate now, that this could lead to a move that is somewhat similar to Dedede's klutzy dash-attack, which involves him tripping and falling flat on his face, and has quite a lot of launching and (later in a match) KO power. Again, this represents Daisy fittingly, and is not similar to anything that Peach does, either in Smash or in their home-series.

These are just six quick things off of the top of my head, from a person who doesn't in the slightest bit enjoy coming up with movesets - these sorts of things are simply that obvious to a fan who knows and likes this character.

And even with only these six changes from the "base", this brings Daisy quite some distance, visually and functionally, away from Peach. Considering that Dark Pit and Lucina were separated from Pit and Marth for far less moveset differences, I really don't see why a Daisy who is fittingly-represented should have to be relegated to a Peach re-skin that doesn't leverage who she is.

Rosalina always had way much more to work with, so I do not see why you people bring her up, or King K.Rool as a Bowser alt. It are completely different situations which are not comparable.

For future reference, my name is Tortilla Noggin, not "you people".

Anyway...

Perhaps it's just me, but because Rosalina had mostly only appeared in playable roles in the same spin-off titles as Daisy, I honestly didn't see what possibilities she had going for her until she was already in Smash. I never saw anyone else envisaging a loosely Ice Climbers-inspired moveset for her, either, though that was before I was here, so I could easily have missed this.

And, I bring these points up because Daisy is a character with her own personality and past representations, and is not Peach in a different dress, and I have seen the arguments used against Daisy today, used against other characters I support - such as King K. Rool, hence listing him as an example - countless times in the past.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

There's our first detraction of the day, it wasn't long until it would happen.

I'm gonna play both sides of the Daisy as costume argument

Argument: Daisy is a clone of Peach. Counter Argument: Daisy looks different and is half a head shorter than Peach. Counter-counter argument: Sakuria cares not for your heights, Lucina is taller than Robin in Smash

Argument: Daisy needs new voice work, ergo would make more sense to be a new character. Counter Argument: Robin and Corrin have two VAs for different costumes. COUNTER coutner argument: Lucina was split into her own character ecause... she is.

Argument: Daisy wouldn't stick a Toad up her dress and for him to take the bullet. Counter argument: Neither would Peach. Counter count... yeah let's just say Smash is weird.

What I'm getting at here is it could go either way but I don't think they'd put all that effort into a single alt costume. They couldn't even be bothered to give Peach Daisy's dress from Brawl onward, only a pallette swap.

This. Most of these points are on point (puns).

And besides, we could have had the alt if they wanted, but it never happened. So we can't assume that or a clone would be her fate until further notice. We aren't completely sure where Sakurai stands on spinoff characters for now (Hence Waaaaa still being stuck to an Assist trophy twice in a row), but that's not to say it can't happen. Toad should have been added to Smash a long time ago if he was important, but he gets ignored no matter what expanded roles he get in the series unfortunately.

And this is coming from someone who's fine with any Mario addition. Remember to stay civil or else the big bad Goddess of Nature could show up in any moment.

 

[Russell_SSB]

Daisy for Smash 5? Yes please!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Most important arguement: she has never been in a Mario platformer or 3D adventure game and has always served as the 'princess number 2' in Party and Sport games to applease the female fans of the series who cannot pick Peach because their friend, cousin, sister in law, grand aunt or family dog chose to play as Peach before. She has her fans gained from over the years, sure.

But like Waluigi, she doesn't really have any moveset potential that isn't completely made up out of random apperances from rather forgetable games. Hence why I say Peach alt is as good as it gets, with her own voice clips and flowerly effects. I even think that's quite generous to be honest. She's not like Toad, who can just use stuff like the Ice Flowers or Propellor Cap because he was playable in the NSMB series (amongst things).

Rosalina always had way much more to work with, so I do not see why you people bring her up, or King K.Rool as a Bowser alt. It are completely different situations which are not comparable.

Tbh there is not much of a difference between Daisy using the sports equipment that she's known for (hence her Smash trophies all have her in a sporting outfit) and Toad using power-ups he has used in one game as player three and four.

Moveset potential is not a problem either: most characters in Smash are a combination of stereotypes/real world similarities (DK being a gorilla, Peach being a graceful princess) and their debut game (Peach being the living example of SMB2)

Daisy could very well be a high-energy (personality) sportsgal (most well known appearance) with a Super Mario Land-flavor (Debut game) (Examples could be a Superball or some of the enemies)

Origin or "role" doesn't matter much in the world where one of the most famous video game characters was made because the developers couldn't use Popeye and where his brother was a literal recolor.
Every video game character is made for a certain role, be it hero or villain, and Daisy's intended role just so happens to be a bit unfortunate

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Daisy for Smash 5? Yes please!

Now that's the enthusiasm I'm looking for.

Let me do you a favor and add that name to the list.

Welcome aboard Russell.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Such a huge post, but I still stand my ground. You are just making stuff up to fit YOUR idea of Daisy, but that doesn't mean that she's all that in Sakurai's eyes. Or whichever director is gonna direct Smash Switch. Yes the first appearance of Daisy was SMB 2 but she did next to nothing.

Also, your male cousin could've picked Peach before you to for all I know? Just cause I said grand aunt and sister in law doesn't mean I'm a sexist. I even mentoined the family dog! I'm no 'ist of any sort if I'm not even speciesist! So far for my social acceptance though.

You are really just pulling a lot of stuff from Mario Sports games togheter in order to make sense. Which it still doesn't. I never saw Daisy punch someone in the nose, so why would she do so in Smash? Creative liberty can be used sure, but you Daisy supporters have a huge tendency to stretch that out till it's simply not feasable anymore.

All you say is, 'Daisy is a tomboyish character so she should use this' which doesn't make a character in Smash. No character ever got in because of them having a "drastic different personality" than an excisting character. Rather, they got in because of their similarities in bodyshape or abilities compared to a playable character. Daisy fits this mold better than an unique character with distinct abilities to draw from for a Smash moveset.

Don't let your blindsight fool you. Rosalina DID had a ton more to work with, if only for her role in Mario Galaxy and what to draw from that game alone. She's far more different from Peach than Daisy will ever be, and got actual roles in Mario games that matter. Which is the most important. Daisy isn't comparable to Rosalina in the slightest. This is purely fan delusion.

I say alt is the best you guys can hope for. She's been an unofficial alt since the longest time, so it's not like it wouldn't fit or anything.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Such a huge post, but I still stand my ground. You are just making stuff up to fit YOUR idea of Daisy, but that doesn't mean that she's all that in Sakurai's eyes. Or whichever director is gonna direct Smash Switch. Yes the first appearance of Daisy was SMB 2 but she did next to nothing.

I'm not making anything up. I like the character and just said some things about her that represent who she is.

Also, your male cousin could've picked Peach before you to for all I know? Just cause I said grand aunt and sister in law doesn't mean I'm a sexist. I even mentoined the family dog! I'm no 'ist of any sort if I'm not even speciesist! So far for my social acceptance though.

You said this;

Most important arguement: she has never been in a Mario platformer or 3D adventure game and has always served as the 'princess number 2' in Party and Sport games to applease the female fans of the series who cannot pick Peach because their friend, cousin, sister in law, grand aunt or family dog chose to play as Peach before. She has her fans gained from over the years, sure.

You said this was an argument as to why Daisy shouldn't be in Smash.

I refuted it and never said that you were anythingist.

You are really just pulling a lot of stuff from Mario Sports games togheter in order to make sense. Which it still doesn't.

Actually, I don't play the Mario sports games. I have nothing to pull from, from those, because I'm not familiar with any of them outside of Mario Tennis.

I never saw Daisy punch someone in the nose, so why would she do so in Smash? Creative liberty can be used sure, but you Daisy supporters have a huge tendency to stretch that out till it's simply not feasable anymore.

You appear to have missed the example that I provided, here, I suspect. I said why she would do so in Smash in the very post that you're responding to.

Moreover, again, I've never seen Donkey Kong use his body to fly like a helicopter, or Peach face-slap anyone*, or Diddy Kong use his butt and tail to hit people, or Marth & friends use a one-button utility to automatically deal 1.5x damage to an enemy unit, or Wario pulling entire people into his mouth, or Sonic having the punching force of a heavyweight boxer, or... Well, you get the idea.

*Moreover, if Peach had that counter move in the Super Mario series, there wouldn't even be a Super Mario series, because Bowser would never be able to kidnap her!

As I said to begin with, Smash doesn't just represent a character's game appearances via their moves - it also represents their personality.

but you Daisy supporters have a huge tendency to stretch that out till it's simply not feasable anymore.

This is a generalised statement that seems to be intended only to dismiss valid points that have been made without paying them any heed.

All you say is, 'Daisy is a tomboyish character so she should use this' which doesn't make a character in Smash. No character ever got in because of them having a "drastic different personality" than an excisting character. Rather, they got in because of their similarities in bodyshape or abilities compared to a playable character. Daisy fits this mold better than an unique character with distinct abilities to draw from for a Smash moveset.

But all you're saying is "Daisy should be a costume", without providing any good reason other than "costumes have similar body shapes or abilities", which doesn't make a costume in Smash. (Example: The Koopalings. They've never used Clown Cars or Bowser Jr.'s Shadow Mario/paintbrush thing.)

We want the character because we like the character, so naturally we're going to talk about the character when demonstrating how she could be represented.

Don't let your blindsight fool you. Rosalina DID had a ton more to work with, if only for her role in Mario Galaxy and what to draw from that game alone. She's far more different from Peach than Daisy will ever be, and got actual roles in Mario games that matter. Which is the most important. Daisy isn't comparable to Rosalina in the slightest. This is purely fan delusion.

Please don't tell me that I'm blind and delusional just because I would like to see a particular character added to Super Smash Bros., and therefore have a different opinion to yourself.

I say alt is the best you guys can hope for. She's been an unofficial alt since the longest time, so it's not like it wouldn't fit or anything.

And we've provided valid demonstrations of how Daisy can do more than that. We're allowed to hope for that!

 

[Luminario]

Do we really have to go through a Rosalina vs Daisy thing again? they're both vastly different character and both deserve to be here.
You're right, we don't know that the next developers of smash will see Daisy the way we see her, this is only a speculation thread after all.
Your comments also did sound kinda sexist, like it's only women who play Peach or Daisy and that's all they play. Daisy was added to Mario Tennis because of a lack of human characters, then grew to become a main character in every Mario spin-off since.
We're pulling a lot from the Sports and Party series here because that is where most of Daisy's potential moveset would come from, it would be what she would probably represent as a Mario character in smash. Daisy also punches in the Party games and in Strikers Charged, she even punches Bowser right into the sky in Mario Party 3. The argument that "they didn't do this in the games" is such a bad one considering characters like Ness and Lucas don't use their B moves in-game, all the FE characters have only a few attacking animations in-game, and Cap Falcon literally didn't even appear in his game.
I'd say more but Tortilla has really got this under control.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

To be fair I don't think a Peach alt would be the blasphemy some others make it out to be and it's not like Daisy isn't girly so an alt is fine but she can and should be more than just an Alph.

I think a more apt comparison is Diddy/Dixie.
It's not like Dixie can't have a re-flavor or Diddy's moveset (unlike K. Rool who is physically impossible to be a Bowser clone) but I don't think she should.

A lot of the same arguments can be made for Dixie as well (very similar body posture, similar gameplay in-game, introduced as a partner clone) (This is just an example that jumped in my mind, but I have no intent to go after your favorite characters to talk them down)

Sure, the K. Rool comparison was inapt and sure, Rosalina had a whole subseries to her disposal but even in that example Sakurai went with a personality (maternal grace) and a fighting game trope (puppeteer) leaving all the powers she has shown to use, such as the Pull Star, the bubble and casually imploding the universe, behind for a simple re-imaginiation of a common trope.

For Daisy this could mean she brings a sport to the fray as fighting style, immediately incorporating her high-energy personality (because she's not a tomboy aside from bios and the like, the difference lies in her energy and not in the buzzwords)

I still think a Lucina-situation could work, where Daisy gets to be a buffed Peach but without the float and I think Peach is one of the few characters that can get an "easier to play clone" (Other's would be Ms Pac-Man that ditches the Hydrant, Alph that only gets Rock Pikmin and maybe Jeanne to be easier Bayo)

(I really hate the portrayal of Daisy being a bare-knuckle brawler like that's the kind of character you want in Smash?
If you go for the fighting, use an unique flavor like soccer kicks or even a foreign martial art of one of the countries that inspired the SML regions. Daisy is not Mii Brawler or Zero Suit and saying she is is grasping at straws like unofficial Prima guide text bios)

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

I'd say more but Tortilla has really got this under control.

Hah, thankyou. But I don't think that there's anywhere else for this to go. I was just sharing my opinions on a character, in the hopes of seeing other opinions in return.

At the end of the day, some people want some characters, and some people don't.

Sure, the K. Rool comparison was inapt

It was actually mostly a joke, and not a totally serious comparison at all, so it wasn't inappropriate; I frequent the K. Rool thread as does Diddy Kong, and I've seen the exact same arguments used against K. Rool that're often used against Daisy.

I'd hoped that this would be readily understood by anyone else who's been a regular there at some point, because we've all seen it!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Hah, thankyou. But I don't think that there's anywhere else for this to go. I was just sharing my opinions on a character, in the hopes of seeing other opinions in return.

At the end of the day, some people want some characters, and some people don't.


It was actually mostly a joke, and not a totally serious comparison at all, so it wasn't inappropriate; I frequent the K. Rool thread as does Diddy Kong, and I've seen the exact same arguments used against K. Rool that're often used against Daisy.

I'd hoped that this would be readily understood by anyone else who's been a regular there at some point, because we've all seen it!

Difference is that seeing K. Rool as a Bowser clone shows you're not even understanding basic atanomy whereas Daisy as a Peach clone would just be wasted potential but not wrong

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Difference is that seeing K. Rool as a Bowser clone shows you're not even understanding basic atanomy whereas Daisy as a Peach clone would just be wasted potential but not wrong

I agree with you. Here's how I look at things, just to clarify my point and my humour;

K. Rool and Bowser are not the same character and do not have the same personality or abilities, so how could one be a clone of the other?

Daisy and Peach are not the same character and do not have the same personality or abilities...

In other words, I look at characters as characters, not as commodities.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I agree with you. Here's how I look at things, just to clarify my point and my humour;

K. Rool and Bowser are not the same character and do not have the same personality or abilities, so how could one be a clone of the other?

Daisy and Peach are not the same character and do not have the same personality or abilities...

In other words, I look at characters as characters, not as commodities.

Then again, Daisy can feasibly perform all of Peach's moveset 'cept for the float.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Toads don't exist in Sarasaland. In fact, we don't know that much about her own royal subjects or citizens in that kingdom.

What enemy from the Super Mario Land would make a perfect Toad substitute?

Not that I'm entertaining the idea of a clone.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Pionpi, Bun-Bun, Gao and the Easter Statues could all work.

But I'd rather have a "Wonder Flower" to replace the Toad move

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Toads don't exist in Sarasaland. In fact, we don't know that much about her own royal subjects or citizens in that kingdom.

What enemy from the Super Mario Land would make a perfect Toad substitute?

Not that I'm entertaining the idea of a clone.

Thing is, we will never know. All of Yokoi's ideas were in his head. Since he's "you know", only the current Mario team can really characterize what her kingdom is like.

Which is unlikely given she's basically a spinoff guest sine the 64. I would like for the kindom to be revisited one day, even if it's different from his original vision.

And looking at the list of enemies, nothing can fulfill that role of a Toad if she were cloned. The best thing they can do is not clone her at all or give her a new move a la Luigi's Green Missile.

In fact, why are we talking about clones again?

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Then again, Daisy can feasibly perform all of Peach's moveset 'cept for the float.

She could indeed, but it wouldn't seem like her, really. Still, I think we're both on the same page about that not being "blasphemous" in any way, but an unfortunate wasted opportunity.

But I'd rather have a "Wonder Flower" to replace the Toad move

What would it do?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

In fact, why are we talking about clones again?

The same reason why she's a controversial character with the same persistent hatedom.

We might as well be prepared for more stuff like this when we get a Smash trailer.

I hope you have your Buzzy Beetle shellmet ready (tinfoil hat).