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The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy Discussion

D

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I'm sooo excited for the new Smash and I hope some veterans get revamped (Samus, Ganondorf, Mario) but I'm sure it'll use Sm4sh as a base in a similar fashion that Splatoon 2 and Mario Tennis Aces used Splatoon and Mario Tennis Ultra Smash as bases respectively.

By the way, a lot of playable characters that were added in later installments had appearances in earlier games, such as King Dedede, Little Mac, Squirtle, Charizard, Wario, Pit, and Palutena. So Daisy wouldn't quite come out of left field as it were...
 

StarCrystal20

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A video by We are Daisy made an interesting point.

Before appearing in Smash, Rosalina had appeared in a main game (3D World) and got into Mario Kart DX before getting into Smash 4.

So, like Rosalina, Daisy recently appeared in a main game (Mario Run) and got into Mario Kart DX in the same year.. possibly before getting into Smash Switch?

Maybe just a coincidence, but the sudden spotlight for Daisy is interesting.

(The info ahead might sound silly but it's just more fan speculation:) Not only a main game and MKDX, but they also explain that during the year before their reveal, they both got similar other very mini appreciations of love. Rosalina got an animated sticker in 2013 and Daisy also got 2 animated stickers in 2017. Daisy also appeared in Mario Sports Superstars as one of the main faces and she was on 3 out of 5 menu screens. Also in Miitopia, she's included in the line of Mario costumes, but there is no Wario, Waluigi or Diddy. But yeah just little things all in the same year that make me smile and be optimistic.

To me it seems like they're trying to slowly establish her as a main character.
 
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NintenZ

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I don’t think menu screens and costumes mean anything for Daisy’s chances tbh.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'll have to agree with this too.

Those are a bit of a reach. Like the whole "Ridley's shadow confirms him" ordeal.
Let's be honest, it only confirmed Ridley was clearly in the game. But as we found out from Toon Link being on a stage and playable, it didn't confirm him definitely not playable, just having an obvious hazard role.

It was the 3DS version being released that fully confirmed Ridley wasn't playable, and the 50 Smash Facts making it clear his chances of being DLC were more or less nil.
 
D

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Let's be honest, it only confirmed Ridley was clearly in the game. But as we found out from Toon Link being on a stage and playable, it didn't confirm him definitely not playable, just having an obvious hazard role.

It was the 3DS version being released that fully confirmed Ridley wasn't playable, and the 50 Smash Facts making it clear his chances of being DLC were more or less nil.
Speaking of Ridley, what would be cool is a 'boss mode' where you can play AS bosses such as Ridley, Metal Face, Master Hand and Crazy Hand, Ganon, etc. It would be a separate mode so it's not like these bosses have to be balanced much but like you could take on your friends as a boss or something. Honestly I want this a lot now.

But back to Daisy, I do think the biggest thing that's happened with her recently is her playable status in Super Mario Run. FINALLY something other than a sports/racing spinoff. And again I'm not opposed to her sports outfit in Smash but I'd prefer her dress as her main outfit because sports spinoffs alone are not enough to carry a character into Smash, and her dress is objectively her normal outfit.
 

StarCrystal20

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But back to Daisy, I do think the biggest thing that's happened with her recently is her playable status in Super Mario Run. FINALLY something other than a sports/racing spinoff. And again I'm not opposed to her sports outfit in Smash but I'd prefer her dress as her main outfit because sports spinoffs alone are not enough to carry a character into Smash, and her dress is objectively her normal outfit.
Well the sports attire doesn't have to do with sports spinoffs carrying her into Smash. It can just be the outfit she wears to be fitting.

But then again, wouldn't her entirety be a spinoff-inspired character? She has only 2 main stream appearances with 30+ spin off appearances full of attack possibilities.
 
D

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Well the sports attire doesn't have to do with sports spinoffs carrying her into Smash. It can just be the outfit she wears to be fitting.

But then again, wouldn't her entirety be a spinoff-inspired character? She has only 2 main stream appearances with 30+ spin off appearances full of attack possibilities.
I may be in the minority, but I DON'T want Daisy to be a spinoff-inspired character, because that doesn't make her unique at all. Mario, Peach, Luigi, Yoshi, etc. have all appeared in the same spinoffs but they bring their own characteristics to Smash.

Daisy's closest parallel perhaps is with Luigi. She really is to Peach what Luigi is to Daisy. Luigi's first Smash Bros. appearance was as a 'clone' of Mario and this was before he had his own game in Luigi's Mansion. However it kind of makes sense for Luigi to be a clone of Mario considering his origin as essentially a pallet swap. Daisy has been associated with Peach as a sort of counterpart/companion for a long time, debuting as a sort of replacement for the damsel in distress. In Mario Kart: Double Dash!! for example they both shared the same special item (similar to how Mario and Luigi shared the same special item). Given this history, and given that I think people in general would not understand/appreciate Daisy as a unique newcomer, I think the most appropriate way for Daisy to get in would be as a clone of Peach--BUT not as cloney as Dark Pit or Lucina, given they started as alt costumes. Up and Side Special make sense for Daisy as do most of Peach's standard attacks, but I could see the other two specials being altered to where she would actually be more of a semi-clone. Her Down Smash could also be replaced to not use the dress thus freeing her up to have a sports outfit costume. :)
After some thought, I think Daisy's Neutral Special could be Superball, a projectile that bounces at 45-degree angles just like the power-up from Super Mario Land granted by the Superball Flower. Down Special could be a move similar to Palutena's Celestial Fireworks, where flowers bloom from the ground around her, which both attacks and shields her a bit.
 

WeirdChillFever

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When I hear "She could have a spin-off moveset" I always think that the person who says that actually means "Well her Forward Titlt can be a Golf Club and her Special can be a Tennis Racket" like "Playing Sports" is a valid playstyle.

Those people will also argue that Waluigi takes over her chances because he can hold a Golf Club as well.

This sort of argumentation is false and it's sad that I hear it from Daisy fans themselves as well.

Daisy should not be a Tennis Racket Holder (trademarked) in Smash. She should have her own playstyle, gameplan, personality and moves. That is not to say that her Forward Smash can't be a Tennis Racket, but "representing" a fancy list of items isn't what should get her in.
 

StarCrystal20

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When I hear "She could have a spin-off moveset" I always think that the person who says that actually means "Well her Forward Titlt can be a Golf Club and her Special can be a Tennis Racket" like "Playing Sports" is a valid playstyle.

Those people will also argue that Waluigi takes over her chances because he can hold a Golf Club as well.

This sort of argumentation is false and it's sad that I hear it from Daisy fans themselves as well.

Daisy should not be a Tennis Racket Holder (trademarked) in Smash. She should have her own playstyle, gameplan, personality and moves. That is not to say that her Forward Smash can't be a Tennis Racket, but "representing" a fancy list of items isn't what should get her in.
I don't understand what you're talking about. don't see the correlation between wanting Daisy to be sports-based and Waluigi himself. I don't even want Waluigi in Smash nor do I think he'd do sports better than Daisy.

I think it's definitely a valid playstyle since a majority of her appearances are sports game.

Plus, I don't even want her to use a tennis racquet or a golf club. In my head, she can use a basket ball, a soccer ball, a volleyball, and a baseball with bat.

We're all free to imagine what her moveset would be like. And no one said that sports is the reason she gets in. She can get in due to any reason such as sudden relevancy or appearance in Mario Run, but that wouldn't stop the possibility of her having sports or party moves. But, even if she was to get in due to being in sports games, how is that a bad thing?

How is Daisy having sports moves bad again?
 
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WeirdChillFever

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I don't understand what you're talking about. don't see the correlation between wanting Daisy to be sports-based and Waluigi himself. I don't even want Waluigi in Smash nor do I think he'd do sports better than Daisy.

I think it's definitely a valid playstyle since a majority of her appearances are sports game.

Plus, I don't even want her to use a tennis racquet or a golf club. In my head, she can use a basket ball, a soccer ball, a volleyball, and a baseball with bat.

We're all free to imagine what her moveset would be like. And no one said that sports is the reason she gets in. She can get in due to any reason such as sudden relevancy or appearance in Mario Run, but that wouldn't stop the possibility of her having sports or party moves. But, even if she was to get in due to being in sports games, how is that a bad thing?

How is Daisy having sports moves bad again?
Having sports moves is not bad, but some people see her playstyle as just whacking people with sports props instead of bringing her own personality and playstyle to the table
 

WeirdChillFever

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https://youtu.be/gQ3ygTZK4kw

Here are the special shots in Mario Tennis Aces of the base roster. Interesting here of course is Daisy's.
And. Hers is interesting, seemingly bringing a brand new power, never seen before in her arsenal.

A blocky Light Staircase.

Although one can vaguely make out the Flower Power that constructs it, it really resembles more just sheer light being formed into blocks.

It's been a while since Daisy got a power that wasn't based upon her affinity with flowers, so I am excited what Camelot will bring to the future when it comes to Daisy's portrayal, because this honestly excites me.

After Waluigi got decked out with full flair, I feared Daisy's special would just be performing an athletic thing and smacking the ball with a few petals but this, this is beautiful.
 
D

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The problem with Daisy purely being based off her appearances in sports spinoffs is that it's not what necessarily defines only her. It would be like if Wario got into Smash Bros. but only had moves based off of Mario Kart--riding a kart, throwing Mario Kart items, etc. People would say: "I mean yeah, he IS in Mario Kart and does those things, but he's not the only one. And why can't he be represented as what makes him unique that no one else can do?"

These are the kinds of things you should consider when you think that Daisy should just be a representative of sports spinoffs.
 

StarCrystal20

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The problem with Daisy purely being based off her appearances in sports spinoffs is that it's not what necessarily defines only her. It would be like if Wario got into Smash Bros. but only had moves based off of Mario Kart--riding a kart, throwing Mario Kart items, etc. People would say: "I mean yeah, he IS in Mario Kart and does those things, but he's not the only one. And why can't he be represented as what makes him unique that no one else can do?"

These are the kinds of things you should consider when you think that Daisy should just be a representative of sports spinoffs.
Well first of all Wario doesn’t have only Mario sports/party moves since he actually has many Wario land appearances and Wario Ware as well. Not to mention World and Master of Disguise.

He already had those many games to pull out of. Daisy only appears in 2 main games. With the way of thinking you have, giving her Super Mario Land moves is not true to her character since Mario was playable with power ups and not her. With this way of thinking she can rightfully only use the double jump..

What I believe: Using Super Mario Land moves AND spinoffs are true to her character. Sports can still be exclusive to Daisy because she always appears in them- and that is the entirety of her appearances and goes with her personality.

Sure every other character in Mario games does sports, but in Smash barely anyone does. They’re off representing their own games. Daisy could be the one to be that sports star fighter representing Mario spinoffs. No one else does it. She’s known to be an athletic tomboy.

I mean, what moves do you think she should really use then, if not sports? Super Mario Land would not be true to her character with that way of thinking.
 
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Ed-boy

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Greetings. it's my first day in this here shindig as a member, as opposed to a lurker like before, but I'd love to be added to the support list for such an underestimated/overhated monarch.

I'd have to agree with Mewtwo's post. I don't think Daisy's set should be based entirely (keyword, entirely) on sports spin-offs, as I feel that would then justify one of the detractors many points about her being spin-off "trash". Rather (and I've yet to see anyone else suggest this), she should be a plant sorceress of sorts, calling in a various plant-based mooks from various Mario titles, &/or just general exotic plants, while having a handful of moves calling back to Super Mario Land, as well as martial arts maneuvers to further convey her brash personality. Basically, Mario's answer to DC's Poison Ivy.

It'd be a moveset with a unique hook no other Smash fighter has that's also a natural expansion on her summoning of flower beds in several games (which could also be a health-regen. move). At least, thats how I'd personally go about it.
 
D

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Well first of all Wario doesn’t have only Mario sports/party moves since he actually has many Wario land appearances and Wario Ware as well. Not to mention World and Master of Disguise.

He already had those many games to pull out of. Daisy only appears in 2 main games. With the way of thinking you have, giving her Super Mario Land moves is not true to her character since Mario was playable with power ups and not her. With this way of thinking she can rightfully only use the double jump..

What I believe: Using Super Mario Land moves AND spinoffs are true to her character. Sports can still be exclusive to Daisy because she always appears in them- and that is the entirety of her appearances and goes with her personality.

Sure every other character in Mario games does sports, but in Smash barely anyone does. They’re off representing their own games. Daisy could be the one to be that sports star fighter representing Mario spinoffs. No one else does it. She’s known to be an athletic tomboy.

I mean, what moves do you think she should really use then, if not sports? Super Mario Land would not be true to her character with that way of thinking.
Yes, obviously, Daisy hasn't starred in her own game or anything. This is why I also support Daisy being a clone/semi-clone of Peach, for reasons I've already mentioned in this thread several times. However, I think giving Daisy some Super Mario Land representation would be exactly the type of thing Sakurai would be inclined to do, and it makes sense. Peach's moveset draws a lot of inspiration from her first playable appearance, Super Mario Bros. 2. And, characters using moves that they didn't technically use in their games has happened numerous times in Smash (Zelda, Ness, Rosalina, etc.)
And again, I don't mind if Daisy has *some* references to sports spinoffs (just as Peach does) but I strongly don't think her entire moveset should be mainly built around it
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Greetings. it's my first day in this here shindig as a member, as opposed to a lurker like before, but I'd love to be added to the support list for such an underestimated/overhated monarch.

I'd have to agree with Mewtwo's post. I don't think Daisy's set should be based entirely (keyword, entirely) on sports spin-offs, as I feel that would then justify one of the detractors many points about her being spin-off "trash". Rather (and I've yet to see anyone else suggest this), she should be a plant sorceress of sorts, calling in a various plant-based mooks from various Mario titles, &/or just general exotic plants, while having a handful of moves calling back to Super Mario Land, as well as martial arts maneuvers to further convey her brash personality. Basically, Mario's answer to DC's Poison Ivy.

It'd be a moveset with a unique hook no other Smash fighter has that's also a natural expansion on her summoning of flower beds in several games (which could also be a health-regen. move). At least, thats how I'd personally go about it.
Welcome, glad to have more new Daisy supporters here like yourself. I quite like some of the ideas that you presented, like using the flower beds a healing move. No one ever thought of that one before.

Adding you to the list.
 
D

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Greetings. it's my first day in this here shindig as a member, as opposed to a lurker like before, but I'd love to be added to the support list for such an underestimated/overhated monarch.

I'd have to agree with Mewtwo's post. I don't think Daisy's set should be based entirely (keyword, entirely) on sports spin-offs, as I feel that would then justify one of the detractors many points about her being spin-off "trash". Rather (and I've yet to see anyone else suggest this), she should be a plant sorceress of sorts, calling in a various plant-based mooks from various Mario titles, &/or just general exotic plants, while having a handful of moves calling back to Super Mario Land, as well as martial arts maneuvers to further convey her brash personality. Basically, Mario's answer to DC's Poison Ivy.

It'd be a moveset with a unique hook no other Smash fighter has that's also a natural expansion on her summoning of flower beds in several games (which could also be a health-regen. move). At least, thats how I'd personally go about it.
It may not be exactly what you had in mind, but if Daisy were a semi-clone of Peach I would still love for her to use a lot of plant/flower-based moves. For example instead of pulling out a Toad she could pull out a potted Piranha Plant which, in my opinion, would just be way cooler anyway. Alternatively, she could pull out a Crazy Dayzee or Amazy Dayzee which would be a fun reference.
 

Ed-boy

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It may not be exactly what you had in mind, but if Daisy were a semi-clone of Peach I would still love for her to use a lot of plant/flower-based moves. For example instead of pulling out a Toad she could pull out a potted Piranha Plant which, in my opinion, would just be way cooler anyway. Alternatively, she could pull out a Crazy Dayzee or Amazy Dayzee which would be a fun reference.

I meant to point out this possibility, but refrained to keep my post from draggin' on, But, yeah, I'd be down with the Luigification approach to! (as a sidenote, I think it'd be fitting/cute if her most preferred plant were the Pansers from SMB2 & SML.)
 

Spazzy_D

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
I'd be more than cool with that!
 

WeirdChillFever

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
I'd very much be ok with that.
I think some moves and attributes need to be adjusted though since,

1. She would not have access to the float, so some moves need to be adjusted to avoid being laggy (like the Down Air or Up Air)
2 Some of the A-moves could use a bit more "oomph" to adjust to Daisy's more energetic personality.
(Personally, some of Peach's old Melee moves would work wonders for this)
3. Her moves could deal the flower-effect.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
Not sure if that's been done before as afar as a clone.

But if that's how it will work, then I would be all for it.
 
D

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
Personally I envision it working as more of a mix. For example, We see things like a Daisy-colored parasol in Mario Kart so the same Up Special wouldn't be weird, and Peach's Side Special actually seems to make more sense for Daisy anyway, so might as well keep it. I could see the other two specials being replaced though. And then similarly her standard attacks would be mixed as far as what is retained--many could work, but they don't all need to stay.
 

StarCrystal20

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6 days until e3 guys!! I'm getting excited.

And I would want to see Daisy with plenty of flower moves and even just flower effects when she does a Smash attack punch or something.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Hey all, so, I've never posted here, and the reason is that I'm pretty much Daisy nuetral...
I don't have any issue with her getting in, but I don't actvily root for her, you know?

That being said, I was thinking..maybe she could be a different kind of Peach clone? When clones become semi clones, usually they use similar specials but have different 'A' moves. Maybe Daisy could be based off Peach and share many of the same 'A' moves, reskinned in the case of heart and rainbow moves, but have completely different specials?

Would that be something Daisy fans are ok with?
Jab can stay the same [SAME]
Forward Tilt could revert to the Melee version to show more leg [ANIMATION]
Down Tilt I'd prefer to be changed to a kick [CHANGE]
Up Tilt MUST be the Melee version, it suits Daisy too much [CHANGE]
Dash Attack can stay the same, but I prefer a belly lunge/slide kick [CHANGE]

[Clone Rating: 1.5/5 to 2/5]

Forward Smash could change, but would probably stay the same idea with a different weapon [ANIMATION]
Up Smash could stay the same, I prefer a punch with the same animation [ANIMATION}
Down Smash should stay the same. [SAME]

[Clone Rating: 2/3]

Neutral Air could be more energetic [ANIMATION]
Forward Air could be a slam dunk with the crown [ANINATION]
Up Air could revert to the Melee version [CHANGE]
Back Air could stay the same [SAME]
Down Air could be changed to a single kick to accomodate for the lack of float [CHANGE]

[Clone Rating: 2/5]

Grabs and throws can stay the same, maybe change some slaps into punches
[Clone Rating: 4.5/5] (If changing Forward Throw's Animation]

Neutral Special can't be Toad. Could be a flower with the same effect, but with pollen [ANIMATION]
Side B can be the Daisy Bomber custom [ANIMATION]
Up B can be Flower Glider [ANIMATION]
Down B can't be Vegetable. Should probably be changed altogether [CHANGE]
Final Smash must be different [CHANGE]

[Clone Rating:1.5/5]
 

Kirby Dragons

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I really wouldn't want Daisy to be a clone, it'd support what Daisy detractors say about her being nothing but a Peach skin.

When I downloaded Mugen, one of the first characters I downloaded for the roster was Daisy, and I must say, I really like the moveset she was given. It had some flower attacks along with SML references, namely Superballs and Bunbuns.
 

FalconSoup

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I really wouldn't want Daisy to be a clone, it'd support what Daisy detractors say about her being nothing but a Peach skin.

When I downloaded Mugen, one of the first characters I downloaded for the roster was Daisy, and I must say, I really like the moveset she was given. It had some flower attacks along with SML references, namely Superballs and Bunbuns.
I can understand that and feel similarly, but realistically speaking, if they revealed any kind of playable Daisy, I'd be excited and okay with that.

The way I see it, in comparison to other potential newcomers, having her be playable would be really lucky! If her being a clone (like Robin/Corrin or Lucina) would be the difference between playable and just trophy material, I'd probably accept it.

I believe that you can give any character a unique moveset, even if you don't have much material to work with, but I'd just appreciate that they thought to include her in some way at all.
 
D

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I can understand that and feel similarly, but realistically speaking, if they revealed any kind of playable Daisy, I'd be excited and okay with that.

The way I see it, in comparison to other potential newcomers, having her be playable would be really lucky! If her being a clone (like Robin/Corrin or Lucina) would be the difference between playable and just trophy material, I'd probably accept it.

I believe that you can give any character a unique moveset, even if you don't have much material to work with, but I'd just appreciate that they thought to include her in some way at all.
Agreed; I absolutely think it's possible to have a Smash Bros. with no clones whatsoever, but the fact is there have been clones or at least semi-clones in every single Smash Bros. game. And we know from past development cycles that many of the clone characters only got in because they were clones and relatively easy to make. That means that they were also low priority.

I'm not necessarily trying to be a pessimist but rather a realist when I therefore say that I think Daisy would be considered a low-priority character. There are numerous reasons why she doesn't need to be in Smash Bros. But--if Sakurai does ever feel inclined to add her, I feel optimistic that it would be as an alt/clone/semi-clone of Peach, sort of an 'upgrade' of that Daisy-colored costume which would be like throwing a bone to Daisy fans without angering others. And yes, I do think many people would be angry if Daisy got in as a unique fighter. Look at all the endless whining that has been generated from adding in characters like Dark Pit, Lucina, Corrin, etc. It's stupid, but it's how a lot of players are.
 

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Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Gamexplain has the opening cutscene of Mario Tennis Aces and Daisy (and everyone besides Mario and Luigi) has dialogue.


Makes me think, I'd actually like a Mario RPG that didn't have new characters if it actually used the rest of the cast and not Mario, this week's Navi and 250 generic Toads
 
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