The Rather Vague Matchup Thread!

[Sykkamorre]

I figured we can start thinking about matchups now!

First impressions.
Stuff that seems effective.
Ideal stages (possibly).

That sorta stuff.

 

[Twewy]

Surprisingly, I've been having no trouble with ZSS with Ganon. Out of the (probably 20) ZSSes I've played with against Ganon, I've only lost like twice. Down+B cancels out her shots, too.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Yoshi is a huge pain to deal with.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

We can use this for basic match-up discussion, I was planning on making a detailed match-up guide/discussion thread some time down the road.

Easiest match-ups I find are characters without good tools to harass Ganon from far away and couple that with characters who can't kill him easily. Mario, Dr. Mario, Marth, and Lucina are good examples. I may argue that Ganon has advantage over them, but won't say anything for now.

Even match-ups, or match-ups close to even are characters as such as Ike, King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Little Mac, and Wario. These characters have good melee pressure tools and killing power, and Ganon has his own.

 

[Sykkamorre]

We can use this for basic match-up discussion, I was planning on making a detailed match-up guide/discussion thread sometime down the road.

Easiest match-ups I find are characters without good tools to harass Ganon from far away and couple that with characters who can't kill him easily. Mario, Dr. Mario, Marth, and Lucina are good examples. I may argue that Ganon has advantage over them, but won't say anything for now.

Even match-ups, or match-ups close to even are characters as such as Ike, King Dedede, Donkey Kong, Little Mac, and Wario. These characters have good melee pressure tools and killing power, and Ganon has his own.

Basic was the plan, I was fully expecting this to fizzle out when a detailed matchup thread happened.

 

[GroundZero996]

Surprisingly, I've been having no trouble with ZSS with Ganon. Out of the (probably 20) ZSSes I've played with against Ganon, I've only lost like twice. Down+B cancels out her shots, too.

ZSS falls pretty fast so she's easy to combo, and she pretty easy to kill too. I love shielding her dash and then Ftilting behind me. Anyone who juggles can be hard for Gannon to deal with. Yoshi and Diddy are really hard.

 

[lavagolem123]

I haven't played against Lucario with Ganon yet, but I have fought one using Shulk. The difficulty of that matchup makes me concerned about how it would go with Ganon. Unless you can score an early kill, he'll get a better recovery, more power, better projectile speed, AND range (if I'm not mistaken). I mean, it was online, so it's a little different dealing with reaction timing and such, but man...I don't see it being fun for Ganon at all.

 

[jahkzheng]

I'm going to call it right now.

Ganondorf goes even with.....

Ganondorf.



@lavagolem123

As someone who played too much online brawl unsuccessfully at one point, I can say that Lucario was top tier online then, just for having a great roll and long lasting hitboxes among other things. Worked well in lag where other precision and AT heavy characters failed.

Truly he has many of the same tools, but rolls are better in general now and lag isn't supposed to be nearly as bad, so some of his advantages may be gone. That said, Aura is buffed and he's traded long lasting softer hitboxes for sharper hits with good coverage still.

 

[Sykkamorre]

From what I've seen, the little mac and sonic matchups are very similar to begin with.

Hardcore waiting like a boss. Bait the living balls out of their approaches, with sonic seeming to be the more difficult of the two.

Of course, the matchup changes as you go in depth, due to differences in kill power and setups etc.

 

[Shogger]

I'm going to call it right now.

Ganondorf goes even with.....

Ganondorf.

My friends used to joke about how Ganondorf had a 40/40 matchup with himself in Brawl. What a step up!

On-topic: I play almost nothing but Ganon vs. Falcon all day with my buddy, and I feel it's 50/50 almost even. CF can rush you down, but has definite openings that you can exploit, and that's what Ganon is all about.

 

[adom4]

I'm having a lot of trouble against Robin, i can barely get past arcfire & it feels like the levin sword out prioritizes every move i have, any tips?

 

[Poxnixles]

How do I deal with Sheik's needles?

 

[Z1GMA]

I feel Ness is one of the easiest MUs. Landchasing him is easy as pie, and he's pretty easy to gimp.
You can just SH over PK Fire and still have enough time to Dtilt him.

 

[warionumbah2]

Robin is near impossible to approach at times .

 

[GroundZero996]

Robin is near impossible to approach at times .

Don't. Let him use up his tomes and then abuse his inability to zone. Campy Robins are the easiest to deal with.

How do I deal with Sheik's needles?

Short dashes and lots of power shielding. Hard to do online, but normal shields work fine as well.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I dunno which Ness' Z1g has been playing, but some of the ones I've seen so far indicate that it's going to be a tough matchup. I mean, sure, you can probably SH PKF on reaction (though not online) but I don't really see a way to approach against all those nairs he's capable of throwing out.

On another note. Hate Diddy. Hate Diddy. Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Diddy. He's still cancer.

And Peach is still annoying as hell, since Ganondorf still has no decent anti-air options out of shield.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Ganondorf's nair. Use that to beat ness's nairs.

G-dorf's Nair makes me happy now.

 

[TheBearsnake]

A smart villager using his rocket, fari/bair to harass, and his tree even helps with some spacing as he just has to let you come to him. Rosalina gives me a little trouble as well, atleast she does when she spaces you out with lumina. But a solid villager is rough for me right now. I think everyone can agree Ganon still struggles with ranged spam/approach.

 

[adom4]

A smart villager using his rocket, fari/bair to harass, and his tree even helps with some spacing as he just has to let you come to him. Rosalina gives me a little trouble as well, atleast she does when she spaces you out with lumina. But a solid villager is rough for me right now. I think everyone can agree Ganon still struggles with ranged spam/approach.

If it helps somewhat Dorf's wizkick & choke go through the tree.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Duck Hunt.

I fought a very good one online and it made my life a living hell. Couldn't win any match, closest one was one where I stocked him once and later got his damage around 90%. That's it.

I was extremely frustrated that such a character could make me look like a fool. I thought I could deal against campers like Link but DH's camping game is unlike anything Smash has ever had, I would even go to say that it's unfair. If custom moves were allowed online, I would run Wizard's Dropkick to sail over projectiles with ease,

 

[ROOOOY!]

From what I've seen, the little mac and sonic matchups are very similar to begin with.

Hardcore waiting like a boss. Bait the living balls out of their approaches, with sonic seeming to be the more difficult of the two.

Of course, the matchup changes as you go in depth, due to differences in kill power and setups etc.

Why would a Sonic approach a Ganondorf? Just wondering.

 

[GroundZero996]

Why would a Sonic approach a Ganondorf? Just wondering.

I don't know why they do, but in For Glory every sonic player I've faced just spams Spin Dash and Dash attacks.

 

[SLEEPING MAN]

Palutena and Samus have given me the most trouble so far, and Samus is probably a hard counter. I'd say Ganondorf is in favor over Little Mac. I've received some great advice on playing against him (basically just baiting, punishing, patience, and hanging around by the ledge) and I haven't lost to one since.

I will also second Sonic being troublesome, and most of my moves hit too high for Kirby (especially a Kirby that always ducks).

 

[ROOOOY!]

I don't know why they do, but in For Glory every sonic player I've faced just spams Spin Dash and Dash attacks.

Then you've probably not played a good Sonic. Dash attack is legit but anyway.

The match up is annoying for both sides, Ganon doesn't want to get hit cos you can't get sonic off you, and the Sonic player can't make too many mistakes punishing or he'll die early.

 

[GroundZero996]

Then you've probably not played a good Sonic. Dash attack is legit but anyway.

The match up is annoying for both sides, Ganon doesn't want to get hit cos you can't get sonic off you, and the Sonic player can't make too many mistakes punishing or he'll die early.

Very few players on For Glory are all that good honestly. Most of them just pick campy projectile characters and roll all day long. And the ones that don't play Little Mac.

 

[Xinc]

I feel Ganon actually doesn't have that bad a time against Little Mac. I mean, he really can zone Mac out, outranging him and able to shield grab. All he needs are a few hits and Mac's off stage. But that's just my experience. But yes, it's a lot of baiting to get a mistake.

 

[GroundZero996]

I feel Ganon actually doesn't have that bad a time against Little Mac. I mean, he really can zone Mac out, outranging him and able to shield grab. All he needs are a few hits and Mac's off stage. But that's just my experience. But yes, it's a lot of baiting to get a mistake.

The biggest problem is counter. Little Mac can basically counter his way through all of Ganon's kill moves, and the counter attack will hit like a truck. You can sometimes force a airborne Little Mac off the edge when he counters and the ending lag is likely to kill him, but this is hardly a good solution.

 

[Xinc]

The biggest problem is counter. Little Mac can basically counter his way through all of Ganon's kill moves, and the counter attack will hit like a truck. You can sometimes force a airborne Little Mac off the edge when he counters and the ending lag is likely to kill him, but this is hardly a good solution.

Which is why Ganondorf's up air is amazing for spacing and keeping Mac in the air. Choke is probably the best arsenal move Ganondorf has against him, negating a lot of Mac's armor moves as well.

 

[Humanity]

I've been having a lot of trouble against Peach players. I haven't run into enough of them to say exactly why, but I can say one issue is turnip sniping off the edge. That gimp is killer.

 

[Vermanubis]

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...tch-up-discussion-guide.373934/#post-17880562

Just so everyone knows, this is where we'll be doing MU discussions from now on. I'mma go ahead and lock this thread up.