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Guide The Puffball from Popstar Ver 2.1

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
:kirby: The Puffball from Popstar. :kirby:

By Alex Cline (-Nitro-) Ver 2.1.

1..Introduction and Version update [INTR]
2..Advanced Techniques and terminology. [TECH]
3..Why be Kirby? [YBKB]
4..Kirby's Pros and Cons. [PROS]
5..Movelist [MOVE]
6..Battle tactics [BTTL]

---------Offensive. [OFNS]
---------Defensive. [DFNS]
---------Shield Game [SHLD]
---------Evasive.[EVAS]

7..Recovery [RCVR]
8..Ledgegame [EDGE]
9..Edgeguarding [EGRD]
10..Team Play [TMPY]
11..Character Specific [CHSP]
Coming soon... [COME]
Closing [CLOS]

1..Introduction [INTR]

Well, I wrote this guide because i've noticed the Kirby forum didn't have one, but had a lot of attempts at creating one. Also, i wnated to make sure Kirby struck fear into the hearts of many. Well, not really, i just wanted people to take Kirby more seriously.

I picked up kirby a Loooong time ago, before i discovered SWF and Advanced techniques, but I only recently tok him from Co-Main to Main, dropping link to my secondary instead of my other Co-main.

Anyway... this guide right now should only be seen on:

http://smashboards.com/
http://smashdomain.com/

Anyway, a few things I need a little bit of help with.
-Throws, Chainthrows, throws in general, I’m not a grab specialist.
-Character Matchups. Please, these are important.
-Correction/Missed information. I’m not perfect, so please point out any mistakes
-Combo’s, Yes, I don’t have My combo’s written down, but they are in my head, kind of. A lot of it is on the spot situational stuff, so…

Version Updates.


Ver 1.0 -06/10/2005

Guide is up and running! Around Halff the Character Specific is missing, and Theres no Combos, but Whoopee, its up.

Ver 1.1 - 06/10/2005
In the same day as its release, i editted, filled up alot more character specific, and added Combos. Also, Coming soon and Version updates added...

Ver 1.2 - 13/10/2005
More Character specific, and the Battle tactics is in progress now... Just a few more Characters until ver 1.0, when the battle tactics is done, it will be Ver 1.1. Yay?

Ver 1.3 - 23/10/2005
Character specific complete! Finally! Now all that is left is updates, but other than that, its done!

Ver 1.4 - 25/10/2005
Editted battle tactics, added two new aerial techniques in the Movelist. Go check them out!

Ver 1.5 - 26/09/2005
Changed a few descriptions, removed a few quotes and placed in my own wording.

Ver 1.6 - 26/09/2005
Added Team play section, expect future updates.

Ver 2.0 - 25/11/2006
Large update, made it much more specific towards ledgegame, reordered and updated character specific, removed a lot of useless information.

Ver 2.1 - 26/10/2007
Whoo, thought after about a year of real competition, I'd try updating this thing. MAJOR updates in the work, making it a lot more realistic and less theory based.

2..Techniques and terminology. [TECH]
We’ll start with the basics

Teching (L right before ground when falling):
I’ll consider this a Normal technique due to everyone
knows it. If you’re sent flying and hit L or R right
before you hit the ground, you’ll catch yourself and be ready
to fight. You can roll out of a tech by holding to the side
when you do the maneuver. You can also wall tech.

L-Cancel:
After doing an aerial, if you land while doing it, hit L as
soon as you hit the ground. You will pull out of the position
faster than before, (use links dair to see this.)

DI (Directional Influence)
Using the control stick to move out of combo’s, influencing the knockback given. For a better description, check the Melee discussion room.

Crouch Cancel (CC) and Crouch cancel COunter (CCC):
This requires a lot of anticipation. Crouching
when your opponent hits you with a smash reduces how far you
fly, (exception is usually with the v smash). Crouch Cancel
Countering is attacking after crouch cancelling a weak attack,
using Dsmash or Dtilt.

Dash Cancel
Crouch while running and you will stop. Any attack can be executed immediately after a Crouch, so a Run, DC to D-smash can be fast enough to look like dash-> D-smash.

Wavedash (WD):
The wave dash is a challenging technique in which
you jump, then Aerial dodge at an angle into the ground
Before your Jump registers, so you need to do it fast.
You should slide while standing still.

Short hop (SH):
lightly hitting Y or X with allow you to do the short hop, its
a small hop, allowing you quick aerials.

Fast fall (FF):
smash down in air and you will drop faster, thats all there is
too it.

Shffling:
Shffl stands for S hort H op, F ast F alled, L canceled. A
primary way of doing aerials. This can be extremely quick
and hard to see coming, adding to its usefulness. You
generally Short hop, then attack, fast fall during attack,
then L-cancel. You need to hit L near the same tiem as down
at times.

Dash-Dancing:
hitting < and > over and over again really fast so you
only see your opening animation.

Wavedancing:
Wavedashing back and forth on the spot.

Foxtrotting:
Tapping forward repeated for movement, only using the opening animation of the character.

Terms:
X-air, X-tilt, X-smash, X-throw. X refers to the direction on the control stick.
F=Forward
B=Backward
U=Upward
D=Downward
N=Neutral (No direction)

So, an F-air is a forward aerial

Knockback: how far an opponent flies from attack.

Priotity: the chance of an attack breaking through another.

Sex Kick: a kick that hits no matter when it hits during its
execution. The foot stays out and does damage.

Sweetspot:
1: The part of a move that does the most damage.

2: Grabbing the ledge so you don't go above it. Perfectly grabbing
it

Meteor smash: an attack that sends the opponent downward, yet can be meteor recoverable.

Spike: Same as above, except not meteor recoverable.

For a more complete Terms list, please check the SWF Terms list located at

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749

3..Why choose Kirby? [YBKB]

Well, on the tier list you will see Kirby is 3rd worst.You may be thinking “why would I use a low tier character?”. Well, that's up to you, but anyway... He is an awesome character, and if you’re a Kirby game fan, you may or may not get a nostalogia rush from his moveset. (KSS, Anyone?).

Kirby is based around the edgegame with Swallowcides, ledgehopped Hammers, and even the throwcides if you can pull it off. His multiple jumps allow for more aggresive off-stage edgegaurding without being punished. And can be combined with his back aerial for a good way to keep opponent with limited recovery off the stage.

4.. Kirby's Pros and Cons. [PROS]

Pros
-Good Recovery
-Short Crouch
-A good Meteor Smash
-Ledgegame.
-Team battle
-Suicide Cancel

-Can swallow other characters abilities. (Can be bane or boon)

Cons
-Lightweight
-Fairly Predictable recovery
-Not the best aerial Mobility
-Suicide throws.
-Bad power.
-Low priority

So I make him sound good, but that’s beside the point….

5.. Movelist [MOVE]

- [A HUGE thank you to $PITE for Movelist Statistics. His are great, and i think it would have been impossible to complete without it. Seeing as i am HORRIBLE with researching things like that.
-If it isn’t qoted in a quote box, I’ve reworded it.
-If you provide useful information, and allow it to be in, it will be credited to you.

-I’ve also added what power/game its from for nostalogia sake.

Neutrals/Dash

A - Right Punch
Damage: 1-3%
Knockback: Very Low
Range: Low
Priority: Low
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: Hmm, not much to say here. Its fairly fast, and can be linked into a grab, but I can’t think of much use. Other than a theoretical Jab-grab, or A, A, F-tilt/D-smash. It can cancel weaker projectiles such as pills or fireballs.

A,A - Left Punch
Damage: 1-3%
Knockback: Very Low
Range: Low
Priority: Low
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: see above.Again, not much to say.

A,A,A,A... - Vulcan Jab (Fighter Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 1% x Each hit
Knockback: Very Low
Range: Low-Med
Priority: low
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Med-Long
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: Not very useful, it has low priority, but almost all of these type of moves are useless. It may be used against a wall, but it has low priority and it’s easy to DI out of.

Dashing A Attack - Fireball kirby (Burning Kirby, Numerous Kirby games)
Damage: 2-8%
Knockback: Low
Range: Good
Priority: Decent
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Long
Wind-down Lag: Medium-High
Description: Another one of his less-useful moves. It knocks upward, but if you hit, there will usually be too much lag to follow up on. If you use it try to hit at the end of the attack, even though the hitbox gets weaker, there won't be as much a chance for your oppnent to recover from it. It also continues of edges, but I wouldn’t suggest using it as an edgegaurd as it has vertical knockback, and you’ll go off more. Allowing the Enemy to turn things around.

-Credit to Dr.Peabody for Hitbox of Burning Kirby going from Stronger to weaker.

Tilts

Forward + A - Spinning Kick (Fighter Kirby)
Damage: 6-11%
Knockback: Low-Med
Range: Low-Med
Priority: Medium
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: A good attack, it's got good range and can actually stop some characters aerial approach. However, be careful when using this against stronger aerials as you may end up eating it.

Up + A - Back kick
Damage: 3-8%
Knockback: Low-Med
Range: Low-Med
Priority: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: One of his better moves, this works well out of aerial hammer, and if you can catch some fast fallers it can be hard to DI out of. It can be followed up on with an up or Back aerial. Harder to do on floatier characters, of coarse.

Down + A - Squish Kick
Damage: 5-10%
Knockback: Low
Range: Good
Priority: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: Since Kirby’s Crouch Cancel game is important to him this attack is aswell. Its fairly quick, and keeps kirby low. The Trajectory for this move is rather low, so it may be used as an edgegaurd. However you've got to avoid over using it as the enemy may actually gain height.

This move, as with the F-tilt, has astonishing range. Use this to your advantage. You can use it to keep low while attacking and pester some taller characters who can't hit you easily
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Smash Kick (Fighter Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 7-20%
Knockback: Med-High
Range: Decent-Good
Priority: Decent
Start-up Lag: Medium
Duration: Short-Med
Wind-down Lag: Low-Med
Description: This move, while relatively powerful, is too slow to use effectively. It sends them at an upward trajectory most often, and can set you up for Bair or Uair. It is easily shield grabbed out of.

However, you can reverse it out of a crouch or dash cancel for a potential surprise.

Up Smash - Kirby Flip kick
Damage: 7-20%
Knockback: Low-High
Range: Decent
Priority: Decent
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short-Med
Wind-down Lag: Low-Med
Description:
One of Kirby’s strongest smashes, yet it is rather hard to land. They need to be right up close to hit them well, and if you miss, it’s a weaker hit. It is a vertical KO move, and one way to hit it off (Not very effective though) is using it following a U-tilt.

Down Smash - Propeller Kick
Damage: 6-19%
Knockback: Med-High
Range: Good
Priority: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Medium
Wind-down Lag: Low-Med
Description: Easily his most useful smash. It can be used out of a crouch cancel easily and has 2 knockback zones. The tips of the toes send them out at a low angle, which is far more useful than the inner hitbox which sends them upward.

Quick to come out, it's pretty easy to use in place of a D-tilt for more power.


Aerial Attacks


N-air – Twinkle Star
Damage: 5-10%
Knockback: Low
Range: Poor
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short-Long
Wind-down Lag: Low-Med
Description:
Kirby spins around in the air. General concensus is that this move is useless. Its not necessarily a bad move, its just that Kirby has better options. Its fairly quick, and when L-cancelled it comes out almost instantaneously. Although, the Hit box, range, and power are all on the low side. Also, if you don’t land while attacking, it has a long Duration, so watch out.

F-air – Spiral Kick
Damage: 1-16%
Knockback: Low, Low, Med-High
Range: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Med-Long
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: A good move. Third hit has a decent amount of power and can be used as an edgeguard. It is possible to combo the first 2 hits into an up air but htis is hard, and situation. Mostly this will be used as a simple approach.

It also helps time your jumps for recovery, as well as offer SOME protection. It helps to use this after each jump to mazimize your recovery distance.

B-air – Drop Kick
Damage: 5-14%
Knockback: Med-High
Range: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Medium
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: Kirby's bread and butter. You will be spamming this move. It's his most reliable source of offense, edgeguarding, etc. Even though Kirby is a bad character, this is a good move.

It's similar to a few back airs. however this one sends them more upwards. Tip of the toes have a stronger and lower angle, so those are better for kill moves.

Pseudo WoP (The almighty Fence of Pain!)
Well, Kirby has a tactic know as the fence of pain, in essence, its the same as Jiggs, except not as effective. It's essentially the wall of pain with Kirby's back air.

U-air – Floating Flip Kick Damage: 8-15%
Knockback: High
Range: Decent-Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Short
Wind-down Lag: Low
Description: One of his better moves, it's his easiest kill move to land. It has surprising power and is fairly quick, so you may be using it a fair amount. However, it's still pretty hard to hit with, so try comboing into it with up tilts.

D-air – Screw Driver (Meteor Smash)
Damage: 1-18%
Knockback: Low, Low-Med (last hit on ground)
Range: Good
Start-up Lag: Medium
Duration: Medium
Wind-down Lag: Low-med
Description: A decent meteor, as it hits multiple times, and can drag characters down, or eat their jump if they try to cancel it too early. However, as with all meteors, it can be cancelled if hte opponent is good at that, and as it is a slower meteor, that may be the case a lot.

Specials

Neutral B – Swallow (Kirby’s Dreamland)
See Character specific for more stuff on each of there abilities. Anyway, when you spit the opponent out, they come out as a star. This has Great priority, due to its range, and can be used in teams effectively by spitting out your Partner, whom with practice, can break out whenever they please.

As for actually swallowing, I’d only suggest using it to gain a good projectile such as Needles, Pills, or Falco’s SHDB.(short-hop double laser). For close range attacks, DK and Bowser if it counts are two of the better ones. Generally, you don’t want to incorporate swallow into your strategy because its character dependant, but you can also swallow your team member and use it in a team strategy, but again, it is VERY situational.

However, it's main use is the swallowcide, another of Kirby's staple moves.

First, make sure you swallow them, and make sure your falling off the stage with them in your mouth. Then just wait, once you near the blast zone, some character die before Kirby does wile they are in his mouth. It you time it correctly, you have them die (Stil in your mouth), and you float back to the surface. If you had someone in your mouth, you gain all your jumps back. Allowing you to recover.

Another use for this is intimidation. if you successfully get it off, your opponent may be less aggressive on the edgegaurd. This means you can recover easily.

Some characters, however, die at the same time as Kirby, resulting in sudden death if on the last stock. But this doesn't mean it's useless. If the opponent isn't used to Kirby, they WILL struggle, and as a result, you go up, and they go down, increasing your chance of survival. Alternatively, if you are at equal stocks, yet you have a much higher damage percent, this will reset the damage, or, in the case outlined above, remove their stock, allowing you to get more damage off.

Here is a link to the post discussing the frame rates for the suicide Cancel.

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=1027571&postcount=133

Never spit your opponent out when swallowciding. This send you down, and them up.

Forward B (Ground) – Hammer (Hammer Kirby, Numerous Kirby Games)
Damage: 8-23%
Knockback: Med-High
Range: Good
Priority: Good
Start-up Lag: Med-Long
Duration: Short-Med
Wind-down Lag: Medium
Description:
Slow, hard to sweetspot, not even that strong. Its not a good attack at all for one on one. If you do hit, it may pay off, but generally, try to avoid this. However, in a team match, it may be more beneficial, as people aren't concentrating on you.

Credit - DeathscytheHello: However, you can use this if the enemy misses with a high lag attack, such as a blocked spin attack, or a missed Rest.

My opinion on this: true, but at low percents, it may be better to start a combo, and at high percents, a charged Up or Forward smash will do just fine. It's an option, though.



Forward B (Aerial) – Hammer (Hammer Kirby, Numerous Kirby Games)
Damage: 3-15+%
Knockback: Very Low
Range: Good
Start-up Lag: Low
Duration: Med-Long (None if you land while doing it)
Wind-down Lag: Medium
Description:
Another Useful move. This one has a variety of uses. First of all, there is the RAH and the SHAH. First off there is the

RAH.
Full jump it, and you want to execute the hammer in the air right in front of the enemy on the way down. You have to be facing away from the enemy, and the hammer should come up and hit there feet as it slows down.

SHAH

Ok, for this you have to run straight at the enemy, and Short hop and start the Aerial hammer As soon as possible. Timing for this is tight, and you should make sure your starting the aerial hammer as soon as you can as not to gain too much height. You should go straight through the enemy, setting you up for an up-tilt or grab combo.

One other use is the Hammer anti-edgegaurd. Ok, step by step:

1: Sweetspot the ledge with Cutter or by other means.
2: Drop down, holding toward the stage
3: Jump while holding forward, then Hammer. You should barely skim the edge.

You should hopefully jump and barely clear the edge, while ensnaring the enemy in the Hammer. When you land you should be able to U-tilt/grab from there.

Another great option for this move is the ledgehopped hammer. Which can lead into similar combos.

Alternatively you can reverse Aerial hammer and edge cancel it into an edgehog.


Upward B - Final cutter(Cutter Kirby, Nonstop Cutter, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 1-15%
Knockback: Low
Range: Good
Priority: Decent
Start-up Lag: Low-Med
Duration: Med-Long
Wind-down Lag: Low-Med

Description:
You hit them up, down then sends out a projectile. If the character is light and floaty, they will be sent up, if they are heavy or a fastfaller, you can chain 3, maybe 4 hits. Recovery-wise, it adds a fair bit of vertical recovery to Kirby’s repertoire, but don’t use it too early, as it has very little horizontal recovery and can plummet like a rock. Also, you may want to sweetspot it, as if your hit, you lose all your jumps.

As an attack? It's alright if you can land it, however it's slow to start, and if you get hit out of it you DO lose all your jumps. So be careful.

Ledge cancelling it is an option, however, most often this will be teched.
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
Downward B – Stone (Stone Kirby, Numerous Kirby Games)
Damage: 9-18%
Knockback: Medium
Range: Poor-Decent
Priority: its like a laggy shield on the ground. An “Invincible” Bowesr bomb in the air
Start-up Lag: Bad
Duration: Depends
Wind-down Lag: Looong

Description: This move sucks, It has horrid lag, easy to see coming. Its not very durable and will almost always be grabbed out of. Its invincible to everthing except grabs, but its too slow to be used effectively.

One use, however, is using it to get below the ledge, or sweetspotting the ledge when you pop out. The enemy can’t hit you as you fall past (Unless they grab), and you sweetspot it. Another possible use could be, if you are knocked up high, there is a chance the opponent will try to intercept you. While you are still in the magnifying bubble, use the stone. Chances are, they don't realize you stoned, and will either get hit, or you will fall under them, allowing you sufficient time to break free.

Still, DON'T USE THIS MOVE.

THROWS

Grab->A - Slap
Damage: 1-3%
Try to do one or two of these if you plan to up or down throw.


grab->Forward – Power Bomb (Suplex Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 4-8%
Direction of Opponent: Forwards and Up
Description: Ok, one thing you will notice with Kirby’s Front and Back throws is the fact they can be broken out of.

Anyway, This throw lasts a long time, so its quite common that they will break out. However, if they break ouf at the end, they will be lagged up. You can then Wavedash FROM the little height you gain after the throw then grab. You can also time it so they end up above/ behind you. Namely on FoD, the platforms go low enough that they are above you if the break out.

Grab->Back - Brain Buster
Damage: 4-8%
Direction of Opponent: Backwards, slightly up (Suplex Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Descrription: Again, can be broken out of,But this move easily sets up for a Bair, or can be Chainthrowed, again, which I dunno how to do. Its using the Breakout IIRC. Otherwise, I haven’t much to say on this throw. The opponent often dies before you, so at high damages this could be a good finisher suicide.

grab->up – Ninja Drop (Ninja Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 6-10%
Direction of Opponent: Up

Kirby’s Most damaging throw, you go straight up, then rocket down. First of all, you can Fastfall and Wavedash after the Bounce you get from the landing. This is advised to reuce lag on your end.

You CAN suicide this throw, and its impossible for the opponent to escape, but its hard, really hard to set up. You need to be right on the edge, and Grab to the throw. However, Kirby will ALWAYS die first, so use it sparingly.

This throw does have a good use, however. For example, you and your opponent are at the same stock, he has 3% damage, you have 94%. You can lure him into this throw, and then reset the damages. This works especially well if you are ahead a stock, as it can secure your one-stock advantage. But, because you die first, there is a small window where the opponent can recover. when playing Jiggs, another Kirby, or maybe even Samus or Mewtwo, then can make it back if they react fast enough.

Other than that, it's a good throw, predict your oppoonent well and it can lead into some alright combos.

Downward Throw - Victory dance (Meteor Smash) (Suplex Kirby, Kirby Superstar)
Damage: 4-7%
Direction of Opponent: Right below you
Description: If you want to use this throw, get good at tech chasing. It can be used multiple times if you are good at it.

6..Battle tactics [BTTL]

First, some General information about this section. This stuff is the epitome of generic Kirby. It may not work against everyone, but for the most part, you will find yourself doing this sometimes.

Anyway, Some things to note.

Kirby plays the ledge best. Try to work towards it. He's light, so it doesn't matter if you get smashed near the center. There is a chance you will get hit the other way, as well.

Offensive. [OFNS]
Most of your ground game should be played using tilts, and grabs. Against some characters aerial hammer can be alright, even lead into up tilt combos, however a lot will be able to hit you out of it, or shield grab you. Forward airs work alright, but when playing Kirby, you generally want to be playing a lot more defensive

Defensive. [DFNS]
Depending on the character, it's best to stay crouching a lot. camp with forward tilts and shield grabs. Kirby doesn't have a great approach so he can't really go offensive.

Agaisnt ground based characters you can try spamming back air and hten retreating out of grab range over and over. Generally you'll eventually land one hit.

If you stay crouched and shield when necessary you can be hard to hit. his wavedash allows him to move while staying low as well, so use that on occasion.

7..Recovery [RCVR]
His recovery is VERY predictable, despite being fairly good. he's god 5 jumps, and a primarily vertical up B. NEVER use your up B before your jumps are gone, as you lose your jumps anyway. Because of his mainly vertical up B, when ledge teching, don't jump the ledgetech. Also, make sure you don't get hit, as it will mean the end for you,

8..Ledgegame
Kirby works best at the ledge because of his ability to edgeguard alright and his kirbycides, which can lead into an instant free kill.

Ledgehopped hammers can work alright if you do it well, and can lead into uptilts on most medium weight characters. Floaties will just fly away.

However, most importantly is the Kirbycide, specifically, the swallowcide. If you get them in your mouth off the edge you can actually jump up before you die, as they die before you. If the cahracter was in your mouth you gain all you jumps back, so on most stages you can recover. however, Fountain of Dreams you may not be able to as it a fair way between the ledge and the blast zone.

Omnigamer said:
New frame data in. This is important stuff, so I felt that it needed its own post ^_^

=========================================
Suicide-Cancel Frames
The number of frames between when they die and you die; essentially, it's the frame window that you can jump to save your life for the swallowcide. I've split characters into groups to make viewing and understanding this easier. The number next to each character is the exact frame window that you have. All testing was done on FD, and consecutive tests on the same character proved consistent.
=========================================

--------------------------------
The Easy Guys
The people that you shouldn't have much trouble suicide-cancelling against.
--------------------------------
  • Bowser: 7
  • Captain Falcon: 6
  • Donkey Kong: 6
  • Ganon: 6
  • Samus: 6

--------------------------------
The Moderately Difficults
The middle-of-the-road guys. Timing might be a bit difficult.
--------------------------------
  • Falco: 3
  • Fox: 3
  • Link: 3
  • Marth: 4
  • Mewtwo: 4
  • Peach: 3
  • Roy: 4
  • Sheik: 3
  • Young Link: 3
  • Zelda: 3

--------------------------------
The Very Difficults
You've only got 1/60th of a second to live against these guys. Do you think you have what it takes? But just 1 frame difference is enough for you to win at the last stock.
--------------------------------
  • Doctor Mario: 1
  • Game & Watch: 1
  • Luigi: 1
  • Mario: 1
  • Pikachu: 1
  • Yoshi: 1

--------------------------------
The Impossibles
Don't even bother with these guys unless you're ahead. You die at the same time, and it WILL go into Sudden Death if you're both on the last stock...
--------------------------------
  • Ice Climber: 0
  • Jigglypuff: 0
  • Kirby: 0
  • Ness: 0
  • Pichu: 0
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
9..Edgeguarding [EGRD]

Kirby’s Aerials are mostly advantageous to him on the edgegaurd. Along with his Down Tilt or Smash, possibly his F-smash.

His aerials are his most obvious way to edgegaurd. Bair and Dair are two more commonly used techniques. The Dair is a good Meteor in the fact that if the opponent Meteor cancels to early, they are instantly hit again. You can also Drag them down rather far with this move, while still being able to recover. However, if the bottom blast zone is high, like battlefield, you will commonly die with them if you don’t have enough height. So this move tends to be less useful on stages like Battlefield.

The B-air is good if there coming at you from a Mainly horizontal route. You can jump out, and float to turn in mid air if you needed to spend more time to get out. Alternatively, you can drop down and Bair if they are coming from below. You want to hit with the Base to send them out farther. Be careful against Jiggs and Samus, as htis may help them recover if htey have alright DI.

Kirby’s Cutter can be used for lols. It has a spike, but you won't hit with it. trust me. However, against some character the cutter projectile will own them.

Kirby’s D smash and D-tilt Both have the ability to send the opponent at an low angle. However, Repeating D-tilts actually helps the opponent’s recover sometimes, so be careful.

The D-smash neesds to hit at the tip of the foot to be useful. If you hit too late, they go up. Which is bad for you. Generally, D-tilting is weaker and they will try to recover, so know whne to finish them.

Kirby’s Fair can be used as well. If you hit a fastfaller with one of the weak hits, they will fall, but if you hit with all the hits, namely the last one, most will go out farther. Not much to say with this move, but be careful and try to hit there second jump with it, not the Third one, or else they will try again, usually. The F-smaash is tricky, but the basic is just hit them. Little else to it.

11..Team Play [TMPY]

As stated before, Kirby is a lot better when he's paired up with someone. There are a few key points to this.

First, he can take advantage of his Laggy moves with less chance of being hit. Also, if his partner helps, he can hit with ease. His stone can also help drop in on a party, and your partner can clear the way so you can de-stone. Even though this is possible, DO NOT USE STONE.

Another reason is, while his Copy abilities are normally fairly useless, you can have, potentially, three choices. Meaning you could work out team comboes with your partners copy ability. While this isn't all too much of a great boost, it can provide more options, and allow you to use abilities on other characters.

The above two combined could help. Giant punch, Falcon punch, or Warlock punch could get a lucky hit, if it weren't for the pathetic amount of range given.

Another tactic is swallowing your partner and spitting them out. The star created is unblockable/deflectable [I'm not sure if Moves like Cape, Reflector, or confusion affect it, however]. Your partner could do a move out of it, as well.

Now, this next trick works well if you're opponents have a fair difference in skill level. It also places heavy reliance on your partner.

First, you need to identify which of hte opponents is a larger threat. Your goal, is to in some form, whether it's by THrowcide or swallowcide, kill him. Because a suicide can be easy to get off in the chaos of a team game, you could be able to grab him, and, depending on character, suicide and survive, only to do it again. effectively eliminating your teams largets threat.

Now, you want to be able to at least have some life left after, so try for the swallowcide, and try to recover. If this works, you can easily wear down at your opponents team, and let your partner deal with the less skilled opponent.

The above technique is preffered if you aren't the best smasher, and can't contribute much battle wise. You can do it if you're skilled, but it may be a waste if you have enough ability.
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Donkey Kong.
12..Character Specific [CHSP]

Top Tier

Fox:
Difficulty: Very Hard
Watch out for: Shine, Off the top kills

Kirby Falls down when shined, so that’s an advantage. However, Fox can rack up amazing vertical kills at low damages if your not careful. What you want to take advantage of is his Fast Falling speed. Use it to get amazing U-tilt damage, Use it against him with the Dair while he’s recovering. The Dair can easily be used against the Firefox if you force Fox into that position.

Fox is a lot faster than you, and has MUCH more priority. He can also laser camp you after he gets a one stock lead. This is a VERY hard match to play,

Even though Kirby can’t be Wave shined, the Reflector is still a deadly move. It can Cancel out attacks here and there, Prevent Recovery, etc. It has amazing Recovery, or can be timed to attack in the air to beat out your Cutter. The Shine spike still affects you as well, so be careful and don’t just rush in.

One note on this, Kirby isnt a Vertical killer, which helps against a fast faller such as Fox.

Falco:
Difficulty: Very hard.
Watch out for: SHB, Pillaring, Spike,

Falco’s Blaster is Deadly. It kills your approach, can hit you when you Duck, and allows him safe passage into your zone. However, if you can copy it, you gain a SHDL, shooting not just one, but 2 per jump. It lacks the usefulness of Falco’s, but can still help. His shine is dangerous against Kirby, and can lead into, or get itself, some easy top-kills.

Once again, he's much faster and has more priority. Best you can hope for is gimping him, as well as up tilt combos.

He can also spike you despite your recovery, so be prepared for that.

High Tier

Sheik:
Difficulty: Hard
Watch out for: tilts, Grabs, and Aerials.

The Needles tend to be rather ineffective, and Kirby’s Crouch cancel kills some of sheiks combos. Kirby’s Aerials tend to be rather effective during this match up, and the D-smash will be of good use. Sheik can’t take advantage of her Needles because of the Crouch, ground needles don’t hit, and aerial needles don’t even faze him.

Tilt combos work rather effective, especially the Up tilt. Some good moves include Uair, Bair, or sometimes Fair. Because Kirby screws over sheiks approach and Needles, this allows him to get in a fair bit easier than some other characters. However, you must still be cautious. Sheik still can hurt you.

Just play Defensively until an opening comes. Sheik can’t Chain grab Kirby very well at all either, but once again, still out prioritizes you in the air and on the ground.


Marth:
Difficulty: Very-Hard
Watch out for: That sword, range.

The Main issue here is Marth’s sword range. Right at Kirby’s Prime attacking range is where Marth’s tip is, so it can be hard against a marth without getting bashed on. If you can get in, Bairs are quite effective, as they can be chained. Dair is effective for Kills if you time it, and trading hits with the Dolphin slash is sometimes a good route of action.

Your recovery is in danger. Marth is a great Edgeguarder, and can prevent you from getting to the ledge with his spike. You want to be as unpredictable in your recovery as possible, and grab the Ledge ASAP. Marth’s sword can outrange your Aerial Hammer Anti-edgeguard, so again, you want to mix it up. Try tricking him out.

Peach:
Difficulty: Very Hard
Watch out for: Turnips, D-smash

Peach’s D-smash Kills your Crouch cancel, so be careful when Ccing. This right away takes away a lot of your advantages. Her Turnips kill your recovery, and certain smashes can Kill at low percents.

Peach has an amazing Recovery. Its hard to spike or Edgeguard the Parasol if it comes from below, but if she goes to high, you can hit her out again. Generally, you want to Cutter-spike, as it will protect you, and send her down. Peach is Floaty, meaning you won’t be able to combo her easily at all. Just try to Guard and get random attacks in before killing.

Middle Tier

C. Falcon:
Difficulty: Easy
Watch out for: Grabs, Knee, Aerials.

Kirby can Duck, which messes up Falcon. It allows him to CC his Raptor boost, Duck his grab and Shuffled Knees, and hurt his approaches. However, if you get caught in a D-throw to Knee, it can kill at ridiculously low %'s, and you don't want that.

You can tilt his raptor boost, destroy his SHFFL approach, and his grab misses. But if he gets one good aerial in, he can follow it up easily, so be careful when going aerial. However, the same goes for you, if you get the U-tilt in, it can be comboed into an edge guard with Bair/Fair and other u-tilts.

Ice Climbers:
Difficulty: Hard.
watch out for: Grabs, smashes.

One major thing to watch out for is the grabs. They only need a few good grabs to kill you, so be extremely cautious on the ground. However, even though their hammers are disjointed, they don't have the best range on them, meaning your Tilts can often Clang them out, or Beat them out completely.

Effective ways to separate the two include your Throws. The U-throw and B-throw both Move Kirby, preventing the other IC form attacking, and the D-throw can capture both of them. Also, if you manage to dodge a grab, you can use a D-smash to separate, then follow up on one. However, if you try this too much, they may get one fatal grab off, so be careful.

In the Air the Hammers start to take much more effect. They beat out a lot more of Kirby's Aerials. Also, if you come at them from too high, you may take a F-smash or U-smash, so watch out, and try to stay low.

-Credit to HonorBound for information on this match up

Samus:
Difficulty: Very Hard
Watch out for: Projectiles, grab.

Projectile’s hurt. A Samus that spams will be extremely hard to get at. She also has good up close fighting, but one issue is she can’t SH very well. Also, Samus is rather Floaty, so it will be hard to combo. Be Wary of using the bair while edgeguarding, Samus can use the Bomb jump to get really close, then Grapple. Try spiking her while she’s grappled, or smashing her against the edge. Her ability may help against her, it gives a good Projectile for Kirby, but it’s hard to get the swallow off. Again, just try to slowly rack up damage, because it’s hard to stay in.

Samus is also good up close. It’s hard to rush her down, and crouch cancelling can do nothing but get you grabbed. Her N-air is strong, and has good range to boot, so it can be hard to break past. However, she has a HIGH short hop, so try to take advantage of that, it you can.

Her F-smash is a real killer. It can finish you at low percents. This is a tough battle for Kirby. One strategy is to Bair your way through Missiles, then try to get an Aerial Combo going.

Dr. Mario:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Watch out for: Pills, Cape, F-air/F-smash

Pills are a good ability to copy. You can float and rain Pills down on below. Dr. Mario has the Cape, however, so.

His Bair is a powerful edgeguard. Its one of his better moves, along with U-air Combo's. Try to stay Below him if possible, but also watch out for his F-air. Its a powerful move. The D-throw to Fair can be pulled off on Kirby if you don't DI correctly. His D-smash and F-smash are both good Kill moves, so make sure to Crouch Cancel up close to save deaths at low percents. Doc's Pills hurt Kirby. You can try to duck and dodge them, but they create a wall. Doc's throw combo's are also vicious, so avoid grabs.

If you know how to recover well, Doc may have trouble edgeguarding you. As you well know, Edgeguard is one of Docs specialties. Finishing him may be hard, but try to get him off and edgeguard as best you can.

Jigglypuff:
Difficulty: Hard
Watch out for: Rest Combo's

Jiggly is hard. She is extremely difficult to Combo at times because of her floatiness and lightweight. Her Aerials may overwhelm you, an her recovery keeps her coming back no matter how far you send her out.

Kirby may be easy or Hard to Rest. He is rather short, forcing Jiggly closer to the ground, but he is rather fat. Her WoP is extremely effective, her Aerial Mobility is amazing, and it can be nearly impossible to chase her down with aerials. However, because she is light, one well hit U-air can kill at fairly low percents, or at least give you an edgeguard chance.

Her recovery is primarily horizontal, so if you can get a solid down aerial off on her, it will hurt her recovery. Especially if you do it multiple times.

Mario:
Difficult: Medium-Hard
Watch out for: Cape, Bair/U-air combo's, F-smash.

In a sense, Mario's Fireballs can force you up. They are too low to duck effectively, and your shield will get eaten. If you jump, Mario has you where he wants you, so try to find an alternative method. I prefer the F-tilt.

However, Most Mario's won't spam the Fireballs like Pills. Mario's U-tilt can lead into all sorts of U-air combo's, but you are a floatier character, and shouldn't have too much trouble DIing.

Mario can hurt your recovery. his B-air is vicious on the edgeguard, and the Cape, again, can turn around your cutter. However, if you are above the ledge using it, you should be able to move over the edge anyway. But this may give him a free attack.

One of Mario's main weak points is his killing. However, his F-smash is vicious, and hard to dodge if Mario does it correctly. You may need to CC a couple, but don't let him get you off.

Ganondorf:
Difficult: Easy-Medium
Watch out for: Low percent Kills, F-air, Range.

One quality that may help is the fact that you dodge a lot of his attacks just by Crouching. However, his strength and Ganondorf players generally above par mind games may be able to kill you easily.

First, you can crouch his Jab, Grab, some tilts, even his Down B. His Side B is weakened severely by your crouch. D-tilts work well.

U-tilt combo's are easy and effective. Ganondorf is heavy, allowing good comboing into a U-air. The Edgeguard is confusing, seeing as Ganons recovery can grab you out of nearly all your attacks. You need to time them right in order to hit.

Ganon has Long ranged melee attacks. the F-tilt has good range, etc. Kirby may be able to get in by CCing, but that leads to a game of hit and run. ganon doesn't need to hit alot before he's on the edgegaurd, and Kirby's Recovery is easy for Ganon to kill.


Low

Link:
Difficulty: Hard
Watch out for: Sword, Projectile setups.

Projectiles AND swords? Sounds like a nightmare! Well, he's not as bad as one may think. You can actually duck the hitbox of the spin attack, only at the tip though. IMO its safer to wait it out.

Link is heavy, that means he's easy to combo. However, its getting in thats the problem. His sword can keep you at bay, albeit not as effeectively as Marths, it can still do it. Also, his Projectiles are made to keep you where you want. and iff he spams them, it can get annoying.

I would try Shielding the projectiles. Link can't execute them as fast as otehr ones, so it may be easier to get in. Once inside, the sword is more dangerous. His Tilts are rather slow, however, so just watch out for the D-smash, U-tilt, or NeutralA. His SHFFL game is great. He has a short Short hop, and he can kill easily.

Make sure you sweetspot. The spin spike is nasty, and you do not want to get hit by it. His Bairs and Nairs are two of his best edgegaurders.

His recovery, can be difficult, or easy to handle. If he uses spin attack, just land a D-air right in the center. If he hookshots? Then try spiking his hookshot, or Bair him against the stage. If so, he will lose his hookshot, and be helpless if he used his second jump.

Luigi:
Difficult: Medium
Watch out for: Aerials, No-Ping uppercut, wavedash

His Aerial game, and overall mobility is increased because of whats called a SHWD, or SHort hop Wavedashed Aerial. THis llows him to attack, then Follow up with a Wavedash to anotehr attack. Since his Wavedash is so Long, Its hard to feel safe. His D-smash is deadly when Wavesmashed, and his shield game is great.

His recovery is Horizontal, then Vertical. Try to take advantage of this. However, if he misfires, you can end up taking alot of pain, so be wary before just jumping out there.

His F-air and D-air are, IMO, two of his most effective killers. I'm no Luigi player, but they are both quick, can be SHWDed. However, Luigi's SH is rather high. It may be possible to duck the Fair, and CC the Dair.

DK:
Difficulty: Medium
Watch out for: Low percent kills, and his range.

DK has good range on most of his attacks, and he has fair power, so that can be dangerous allowing him to get low percent kills on Kirby. However, he has primarily Horizontal recovery, allowing low, low percent spike kills on him. The Spinning Ape gains VERY little height, and it gains it slowly, allowing you to go and spike again, and again, until he gives up. the fact that Kirby's Meteor is multi hit hurts him even more, preventing Meteor cancels.

However, it can be hard to get in. He has good range on alot of his ground moves, and in the air, disadvantaging you. However, if you do get in, DK is heavy, and easily comboed. One good technique is the SHAH to Grab combo. Once you get a U-tilt combo started, it can go for awhile.

Kirby needs to get DK up to high percents to kill him horizontally, so for the kill, i recomend Knocking off to Dair.

-Credit to King Kong For information on this matchup.

Roy:
Difficulty Medium-hard
Watch out for: Sword.

Similar to the Marth matchup, yet a fair bit easier. For a number of reasons
  1. The sweetspot is not at the tip.
  2. Roy is Slower
  3. Roy is heavier.
this, not only allows you to get in easier, yet combo easier. Still, its hard to get in because of the sword, but not to the severity of Marth because of the Location of the sweetspots.

Again, U-tilt and D-tilt combo's work, but still, watch out for that sword. It will still be fairly hard to win.

Young Link:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Watch ouf for: Sword, Projectile setups.

Same thing as Link essentially, except he will have a harder time killing you. However, his Projectiles are, IMO, much more vicious. There faster, and do more damage. What he loses, is alot of Up-close battle power, so that is where you want to be.

However, i'm not saying he is gonna be EASY in close, he still has a sword, and can still hit hard. His F-tilt, D-smash, U-tilt, and F-smash are all moves he can use either to combo you or clear you out. If your Crouch Cancelling, you should be able to stay in easily, but keep an eye on your damage meter.

Pikachu:
Difficulty: Hard.
Watch out for: Vertical Kills, U-smash, Thunderflip, Thunder jolt, etc.

Well, One advantage you have over him is his limited range. However, Pikachu has good Vertical Killing power, and he has a, different recovery. Pikachu is also light, but not not necessarily floaty, so he can be comboed, but not easily.

He is alot faster on the ground than you, and sometimes may play hit and run. If he does this, Try countering with a Short hopped hammer on the spot, it should hit, allowing you to go into something.

His recovery is hard to anticipate at first, but may get predictable later. He can use the Skull bash to get closer if he went high, and his Up B has fast and random recovery.

However, Pikachu has some range issues, which is an advantage to you. He may not be able to get in up close. However, at far, he can use his Thunderjolt to screw up your ground approach, forcing you into the air.

Bottom

Yoshi:
Difficulty: Medium
Watch out for: Eggs, D-tilt/D-smash.

One of Yoshi's main killing moves is the D-smash, which can be used to sneak under an opponents shield. However, Kirby is much lower to the ground, meaning the D-tilt D-smash under shield won't work. Also, CCing screws D-smash kills until high percents.

Yoshi's Aerials can't start much Combos on Kirby, due to his light nature, he drifts away from them. But Eggs pose a threat, s to D-tilts killing your Cutter, leaving you jumpless.


Zelda:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Watch out for: Thee toe, sparkles.

The Lightning kick hurts, alot. Kirby's Hitbox is rather fat, which means a sweetspotted kick will more offten than not hit. Also, Zelda's Recovery prevents Some of your better edgegaurd techniques, because of its invincible nature.

However, Kirby's Crouch Cancel is a pain to Zelda, and his Fence of Pain is a good tactics to use against her. When you are ducking, Itcan be alot harder for Zelda to hit you with the Kicks, so try to keep low with your CCand CCC.

Kirby also has a diffucult time Killing Zelda. Again, the Recovery, but also her weight. It can take awhile before the U-air kills, so just try to wait it out.

One of the harder things for kirby is getting in past the magic attacks and smashes. Zelda can create a "Barrier" preventing Kirby from closing in.

-Credit to DaRkNeSsOfHeArT for information on this matchup.

Mr. Game & Watch:
Difficulty: Hard
Watch out for: Nair, Grabs, Aerials.

Game and Watch is Painful for Kirby. Nearly all of his moves are disjointed hitboxes, and they all have range over Kirbys. His aerials all outrange him, and a lot of them hit hard.

He is floaty, too, which means he is hard to combo. Plus, he can pull off a Grab to Parachute combo with ease. This guy is Kirby's Nighmare. Best bet is to land a few lucky Fairs or Bairs, or maybe a U-tilt. The Hammer (Aerial) can come in useful for this battle as can the cutter. Those are kirby's two disjointed hitboxes, and will prove useful.

Ness:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Watch out for: Grab, Bat, F-air, B-air

Not necessarily how sure the YYG works, but even without it, Ness has some tricks up his sleeves. For one thing, his F-air is a killer in the air, and may kill your approaches. His Bat can kill you at low percents, as can hit Throws.

In the air, the Bair would say your best bet. Its one of Kirby's fastest aerials, and doens't have bad range. However, Ness's Fair still hurts and can break through. He also has DJC, allowing fast aerials on the ground.

Your Tilts own part of his ground game. But then again, he has the DJC, which hurts your ground. if he DJC's a fair on you into a grab or something, he can kill you if your at high enough damages.

You can edgegaurd his recovery easily if your fast enough. Make sure to space properly when spiking the PK thunder recovery. Ony idea is to absorb his thunder, or spike his vulnerable state.

-Thanks to Dekar for information on this matchup.
-Thanks to Vilness for information on this matchup.

Bowser:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Watch out for: Fortress, Low percent kills.

First of all, Kirby can Combo Bowser fairly easily IMO. Second of all, Bowser Can Kill Kirby at Really low percents. Third of all, you may have killing troubles due to his weight.

Bowser is massive. He is a huge, slow, hulking figure with amazing strength, but not so amazing Speed. However, he does have the Whirling fortress. A Powerful, Versatile, and quick move that can kill you at low %'s.

What you want to do is get him above you. This is where Bowser is limited, so use U-tilt Combo's, D-smash, U-throw, whatever you can. Try to keep him up there until you can Bair or U-air into the Edgegaurd. Edgegaurd, however, isn't too difficult. Just a Dair should do.

However, bowser can Kill Kirby really quickly if you aren't careful. His CCing makes it difficult to start combos, and his Ftilt/Fair can be used along with the fortress for Low percent kills. He can easily rack up damage and kill you at a damage you would feel safe at, so avoid damage as much as possible.

-Thank you to SonicZeroX for information on this matchup.

Kirby:
Difficulty: Medium
Watch out for: hammer, Cutter, Spike, Bair, Uair, anything you got, he got.

You have no specific advantages, Kirby is also floaty, so its hard to combo yourself, just , well, you know your disadvantages. Use your knowledge against him?

Pichu:
Difficulty: Easy.
Watch out for: F-smash, Nair

He has MUCH less range than you, is really light, and he hurts himself. Its partially the same as Pika, except Sans Power and alot less range and weight. However, he does have Alot faster running speed, so wait for him to come to you. Tilts all have more range than him, and your aerials can beat him out too.

His Nair is pretty good, Fast, fairly powerful, and it doesn't hurt himself. So in the air, try to space properly to hit him first.

Mewtwo:
Difficulty: Medium-Easy
Watch out for: Throws, Tilts, Fair.

Mewtwo is iffy, noone knows. So i will provide the best insight i can.

His Wavedash is long, and often used to move faster than his slow run. Which allows him to be more maneuverable. Also, he is much more maneuverable in hte air than you are, which is a problem. Your Aerials have good range, but his do too, add that to DJC or his aerial mobility and you have a problem.

However, on the ground you can duck his F-tilt, but then his D-tilt will get you, however the CC will mess it up. His tilts have great range, which takes away your advantage on the ground. However, you can still cancel them out.

Coming Soon... [COME]
  • Shield Game
  • Kirby Styles
  • Kirby Colours
  • Possibly some stuff on the swallow?
  • And anything I/or others can think of.

Closing: [CLOS]

Well, thanks for reading this, its © Alex Cline (-Nitro- (nitro-blazer on the forums)), At least i think its ©.

CREDITS

Thank you too:

-Ominigamer: For providing me with a tonne of useful informaiton and quotes. A huge thank you for giving me access to your wealth of knowledge.

- [A HUGE thank you to $PITE for Movelist Statistics. His are great, and i think it would have been impossible to complete without it. Seeing as i am HORRIBLE with researching things like that.

-Credit to Dr.Peabody for Hitbox of Burning Kirby going from Stronger to weaker.

-DeathscytheHello, for the Ground Hammer use if the enemy misses a laggy attack.

-Dekar for information on Ness Matchup.

-Vilness for information on Ness Matchup.

-SonicZeroX for information on bowser matchup.

-King Kong, for information on the DK matchup.

-DaRkNeSsOfHeArT for information on the Zelda Matchup.

-Omnigamer, for information on Sheik, Fox, Marth, Falco, Peach, C. Falcon, Dr. Mario, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Roy, Zelda, Yoshi, Bowser, Game and Watch, and possibly others.

-Yokoson, for providing opinions on the character matchups.

-HonorBound, for information on the Ice Climbers Matchup.

-The Kirby forum, for discussing Kirby and helping me learn about him.

-[YOUR NAME HERE]: For providing useful information to the guide.

-You, for reading this.

-HAL and Nintendo: For making a great game and a great character.
 

Omnigamer

All the things
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
4,412
Location
Boston, MA


This is a lot to swallow at once. So I'll sticky it and we can all read it at our liesure :)
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
The bulk of it is the Moveset, Edgegaurd, Recovery, Ledgegame, and some char specific. I could've probably done it in 3 posts, but my computer froze everytime i put too much. -.-

Btw, My brother loves that picture. He told me to tell you. :dizzy:
 

King Kirby 90

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
177
Location
Neuss, Germany
Very nice guide nitro. You don't need to look for things like suicide-cancel frames in the Kirby vids and general discussion you just have to check them here. ^_^
I think it would be nice to post a short video clip for techniques like the "Super Kirby Combo" or the suicide swallow+suicide-cancel. So players who decided to play Kirby could see what you have written about.
 

Dr.Peabody

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
332
Location
St. Louis
NICELY DONE NITRO!!! 1 thing though... kirby's dash isnt the same all the way through... its strongest at the start, but gets weaker afterwards

also, there is already a thread for character matchups >:D (ps i made it so w00t!)

i wish i had a burger like that -.-"
^( '.' )>
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
Gimpyfish62 said:
Nice guide nitro! Some stuff was repeated though...

Overall a great guide!

btw...

LMAO @ omni's post!
I repeated things in different sections, because, well, I had it in the mvoeset so poeple would know the technique coresponds mainly to that move. I also doubled it in the correct section.

Dask-attack gets Weaker? Thank you for telling me that. I rarely use it, if i do its the end i hit with, so i don't see the strength increase often, if at all. I'll add that.

Videos? Sounds like a good idea, although i am lacking the technology to do it. I'll check the guide in hte Vid discussion and try to get the stuff.
 

DeathscytheHello

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
312
Although I despise the rock, I find it somewhat useful on slanted stages such as, even though it is banned, Brinstar Depths and Princess Peach's Castle. The slant can sometimes get a double-shot off (making it 40% damage), which always helps. I'd still rather not use it, but I just wanted to point it out.

Also, with the ground hammer- I'm gonna defend this move for a second. It is a great option, in my opinion, if the opponent uses a laggy move, such as Jigglypuff's Rest or Link's Up-B (block the hit with your shield, you won't get hit again, giving enough space for the hammer). Always great to add the classic, "Hammertime," to the death.

I may add more comments later... You know, it's strange... I play a DK very often, but I can't give any real strategies to use against him.

About the video comment, I say just link it to Omnigamer's video. He's got both of those in there, I believe. Plus, everyone should witness the awesomeness of that video.

OH! Just remembered- chainthrowing. I've only really done this a few times, but something you could do is punch, then throw, then grab. Not that much damage, but damage none-the-less. And it's fun to watch, to.
 

nitro-blazer

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But if that does happen, Kirby also has some better moves. Jiggly is really floaty, so a missed rest gives you a chance to get an Up-smash if she's at high damages. Also, it depends what percent there at. If they miss at 0%, then its better to use the time to setup for a Combo.

Killing wise, if its a miss at say, 100%, you have time to charge a smash for a half a second or something. The U-smash is much better on a jiggs than the Hammer, unless its a REALLY high cieling.

But yea, thats a good point. If you get the time, it may be worth it, but often A Combo may be better, or a Smash. Still, it is a nice option to have. and can be deadly, but it is hard to execute on a moving opponent.
 

SMB PORTAL

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Great guide! But, one thing i noticed was that there was no difficulty for the ice climbers. Could you tell me why? Also, what you would give them as difficulty if youy had to . Thanks for your time!
 

SMB PORTAL

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Great guide! But, one thing i noticed was that there was no difficulty for the ice climbers. Could you tell me why? Also, what you would give them as difficulty if you had to . Thanks for your time! Sorry double post. My bad.
 

nitro-blazer

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I don't have much info or expirience with the Ice Climbers, but i'll give it my best shot

Ice Climbers:
Difficulty: Medium-Hard?

I'm guessing the Hammer's and Desyncs really bug Kirby. two characters, each armed with disjointed hitboxes.

Anyway, i'll be researching this matchup. Seeing as there is demand for it. That reminds me...

As i'm workign on it, PM me if there is any characters you want completed sooner rather than later. If not, i will be doing it in Order from Highest Tier to Lower.
 

SonicZeroX

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Over at the boswer forum, they say Bowser completly owns Kirby. Not 100% sure how but I guess his crouch cancelling, fair/ftilt for low % kills, and fortress can give some really big problems.
Luckily he should be easy to edgeguard. Go in above the fortress and Dair, or float under and Uair.
 

T Bird

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Errr.... I was just playing my brother and kirby often has better options when off the edge and peeps are in his mouth. If they try to break out they are shot down kirby is shot up, but on stages like battelfild you just have to point under the lip with his mouth and tap a. They go flying out and up, but there under the stage, so they're still screwed and don't get the advantage of the up. Kirby is pushed back a bit. On some Charecters this doesn't work as well. Samus, jiggs Pikachu, cause the're freaks tih as good of recoveries as kirbs.
 

nitro-blazer

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Even with that, they can break out of the star anytime they want if they're fast enough so they could come out ASAP and spike you (IF they have that option.)

However, yes, they can break out of Kirby's mouth, but they fall, they have a break free animation, and that acts as a "Spike", making them fall for a small time, then they may be too late to recover.
 

Dr.Peabody

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T Bird said:
Errr.... I was just playing my brother and kirby often has better options when off the edge and peeps are in his mouth. If they try to break out they are shot down kirby is shot up, but on stages like battelfild you just have to point under the lip with his mouth and tap a. They go flying out and up, but there under the stage, so they're still screwed and don't get the advantage of the up. Kirby is pushed back a bit. On some Charecters this doesn't work as well. Samus, jiggs Pikachu, cause the're freaks tih as good of recoveries as kirbs.
this has all been discused quite recently in another thread (but i dont remember which one-.-") 99% of the time its better for them to fall out, and then fly back up...

now for character discussion... i have a thread up (hint hint) unless u all hate me >:{

btw... which signiture of mine do u like the best? i cant decide o_0
 

8000

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It seems great but i would look at the Link section a bit more and edit it. A lot of spelling mistakes and typos.

Other than that it seems good, expect you may want to note that Link can simply press A to get an "extra" jump out of his hookshot so spiking the hookshot itself wouldn't be a really good idea.
 

nitro-blazer

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Typos and spelling will be editted. Also, i know LInk can do that, but the hookshot itself doesn't sweetspot if he uses the "Jump", so it can be a boon or a bane if Link uses it. Plus, Link may also use Spin attack or other means to recover, so the Spike is only if they DO stay attached

Yea, i was expecting there to be a few typos. My MSWord Spell check is down. I'll edit the Guide soon with Grammar and spelling.
 

SonicZeroX

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In case you didn't know and might want to add this in your guide, there is actually a Kirby called SMASH kirby. Where he has all of His B moves (Final cutter, Stone, Hammer, but no suck cause that's his main move;) ) Along with the rapid punches and the nair (spinning kirby thingy except he swings his blade as well. I wish he did that in Smash) I think SMASH Kirby is only in the Amazing mirror game for GBA.

It's one of my fave power (>")> <("<)
 

nitro-blazer

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SonicZeroX said:
In case you didn't know and might want to add this in your guide, there is actually a Kirby called SMASH kirby. Where he has all of His B moves (Final cutter, Stone, Hammer, but no suck cause that's his main move;) ) Along with the rapid punches and the nair (spinning kirby thingy except he swings his blade as well. I wish he did that in Smash) I think SMASH Kirby is only in the Amazing mirror game for GBA.

It's one of my fave power (>")> <("<)
Yea, i know, i ahve and love that game! You get smash from beating the Miniboss Master Hand. And Yes, Smash Kirby is only in KatAM.
 

Yokoson

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Haha I knew when I saw that difficulty rating for Shiek that things were gona get messy. While I agree that Shiek's godly tier powers are lessened to an extent when fighting against a Kirby, she's still a tier and playing her his still much more adventageous than playing a DK against Kirby (or most any other character according to your rankings).

This is why Sheik is a tier, shes good enough in her moveset to change fighting styles and still be largely effective. If she can't chaingrab, she'll fair out of a down throw. If she can't apprach with a needle offensive she'll space Kirby's tilts with her tilts into combos. The very fact that you suggested that the Kirby player would have to play defensively just goes to show that the match is still very much in Shiek's hands.

As a general comment. Anyone on Kirby's tier level and below shouldn't be ranked so high above him. There is a reason why these guys are lumped together at the bottom, they have glaring weaknessess when viewed by the average abilities of the characters in the game.

I've watched more of my brother's matches than anyone. And the way KirbyKid plays his Kirby, anyone on his tier level or lower always loses. ALWAYS. Its all about exploiting the suckiness of the tiers. There is NO reason why Boswer should be anything above an easy ranking for Kirby. DK, Ness, and GW should have nothing higher than a medium (which I guess is a fair match on your scale).

DK and Bowser are WAY TOO SLOW. KKK uses DK as his training character just because EVERY COMBO he uses works on a DK (twice as true for Bowser). Their power attacks come out too slow, and otherwise (especially for Bowser) they're just foder for attacks until the agressor messes up. They're easy to edge gaurd and way too easy to off gaurd. There is no reason why these two should have an advantage on Kirby.


Not wanting to rant about all the characters I'll give what I feel the list should be like and we can discuss whatever qualm you will have with it. Asuming your scale (easy, medium, hard, very hard) ranges from advantage for Kirby (easy), to a even match up (medium), to a disadvantage for Kirby (hard), and an extreme disadvantage (veryhard).

Shiek (hard): These two are NEVER on an even playing field
Fox (very hard): Fox is in contol of this match
Marth(hard): Sword is great but not as great as some might think

Peach(hard): She stays alive too long while Kirby doesn't
Falco (medium-hard): RIGHT ON THE BUTTON
Samus(hard-veryhard):

Jiggs (hard): Jiggs is Kirby + goodness
Doc(medium): Mario's are the wellrounded characters, a nice match up IMO
G-dorf(medium): good counters Power v Weirdness (?)
Mario (medium): See Doc
ICs (medium- hard): if the player plays to the ICs correct stregnths then things get hard

Luigi (medium): A mario is a mario
Link (medium-hard): NAIL ON THE HEAD
Roy(medium): When did Roy move so high on the list?!!
Dk (medium): DK is a goon, combo doll
Pika(medium-hard): YOU GOT THE RIGHT ON BABY UH HUH
Zelda(easy-medium): Naruy's Love with Kirby = Mewtwo's spamming neutral air. Besides that a Zelda looking for a Kill is easy to spot and avoid (oh look shes in the air, I wonder what move she's gona use?)

Ness(easy-medium): Possibly the easiest person to kill of off the edge
Kiry(medium): Kirby = Kirby, really any other ranking would break the laws of Math
Yoshi:
G&W(medium-hard): Air air air
Bowser(easy) = Kirby's Bowser breath, combo bag, slow as mud

Mewtwo (easy-medium): Not too many effective Kill moves for M2
Pichu(AUTO WIN): haha I kid

If you look at the number of each ranking in each tier rank, you would see something that more closely dictates the the power of the tiers. Top tier has more hards-veryhards. Upper has more hards than High. High has more hards than middle. As we approach mid and low tier we find more and more characters at match Kirby's level.

Ok time to argue!
 

T Bird

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Oh wow. I don't believe I've ever seen anyone take the tier list quite like that... Biggest problem. Luigi is NOT mario. HUGE DIFFERENCES. Do you know what a wave dash is? Mario and doc are both pretty much the same, and they are well rounded, but that does not mean that they don't counter anyone. Cape+not sweet spotting edge=death. Not that they neccessarily counter kirby, but the reason for this no-countering isn't because they're "good all around". I have often heard that kirby is good v sheik, I don't know that it's true, but SHEIK IS TOP TEIR OMG does not mean SHEIK COUNTERS EVERYONE. Ever seen chu dat vs azen? It's histerical.
 

nitro-blazer

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I was wondering how long until someone posted some constructive critisism


Yokoson said:
Haha I knew when I saw that difficulty rating for Shiek that things were gona get messy. While I agree that Shiek's godly tier powers are lessened to an extent when fighting against a Kirby, she's still a tier and playing her his still much more adventageous than playing a DK against Kirby (or most any other character according to your rankings).
Yea, i was iffy about that rating. Alot of my character information comes from what i've read previously, and what i've expirienced. Most of the time, i read people rating Kirby and SHeik as even, so, this is why i've rated it so low.

Yokoson said:
As a general comment. Anyone on Kirby's tier level and below shouldn't be ranked so high above him. There is a reason why these guys are lumped together at the bottom, they have glaring weaknessess when viewed by the average abilities of the characters in the game.
Tiers aren't everything. Kirby has some distinct advantages. Game and Watch has a tonne of disjointed hitboxes, and his Aerials are near impossible for Kirby (At least some Kirby's,) to beat. However, i've heard KKK has a VERY different Kirby than most, so... >_>

Yokoson said:
I've watched more of my brother's matches than anyone. And the way KirbyKid plays his Kirby, anyone on his tier level or lower always loses. ALWAYS. Its all about exploiting the suckiness of the tiers. There is NO reason why Boswer should be anything above an easy ranking for Kirby. DK, Ness, and GW should have nothing higher than a medium (which I guess is a fair match on your scale).
The reason i rated bowser so hard is because, i;m trying to get everyones rating... I checked around on the Bowser forum and they say Bowser Coutners Kirby to an extreme degree, yet i say he's easily comboed. Again, its not necessarily speed that dictates everything. Bowser can kill kirby at obscenely low percents.

Yokoson said:
DK and Bowser are WAY TOO SLOW. KKK uses DK as his training character just because EVERY COMBO he uses works on a DK (twice as true for Bowser). Their power attacks come out too slow, and otherwise (especially for Bowser) they're just foder for attacks until the agressor messes up. They're easy to edge gaurd and way too easy to off gaurd. There is no reason why these two should have an advantage on Kirby.
Again, Edgegaurding is only a part of a match. Combo's are huge, but again, still only a part. DK has good range, which can prevent a Kirby from getting in close. Once a Kirby gets in, DK is screwed, so, yes. Your right.

Not wanting to rant about all the characters I'll give what I feel the list should be like and we can discuss whatever qualm you will have with it. Asuming your scale (easy, medium, hard, very hard) ranges from advantage for Kirby (easy), to a even match up (medium), to a disadvantage for Kirby (hard), and an extreme disadvantage (veryhard).[/QUOTE]

OK, my rankings go from:

Very hard: THis character Counters Kirby.
Hard; Character has a larger advantage over Kirby
Medium-Hard: Character can have a slight advantage
Medium: Fair matchup.
Easy-Medium: kirby can have a slight advantage
Easy: Kirby has a large advantage
Very Easy: Kirby Counters this character.

Oh, one thing as well.Character Matchups are indeed open for discussion, as is anything, ANYTHING in this guide.

Infact, discussion is encouraged.



Yokoson said:
Shiek (hard): These two are NEVER on an even playing field
Again, its only a few views i've reead + my own, so i'll add this to that annd change it to a Medium hard (To reflect the collective perspective).

Yokoson said:
Fox (very hard): Fox is in contol of this match
I have no idea why i rated Fox so low! He has two DANGEROUS kill moves, the Shine STILL hurts, alot. He may not be able to flatland you, but can still do amazing damage. However, he is easy as heck to combo and edgegaurd...

Yokoson said:
Marth(hard): Sword is great but not as great as some might think
Again, Kirby's attacking range is perfect for tipped F-smash, so it hurts. Didn't i rate him hard in the firstplace?

Yokoson said:
Peach(hard): She stays alive too long while Kirby doesn't
I hate her recovery as well... Kirby can't even spike her easily.
Yokoson said:
Falco (medium-hard): RIGHT ON THE BUTTON
<_< Thanks?
Yokoson said:
Samus(hard-veryhard):
I agree.

Yokoson said:
Jiggs (hard): Jiggs is Kirby + goodness
Also, add that to the fact Kirby has problems with floaties.
Yokoson said:
Doc(medium): Mario's are the wellrounded characters, a nice match up IMO
Still, the pills and Aerials pose a large threat. teh Cape can turn your recovery as well, not saying you can't DI onto the edge.
Yokoson said:
G-dorf(medium): good counters Power v Weirdness (?)
Yokoson said:
Mario (medium): See Doc
I;d give doc a medium-hard...
Yokoson said:
ICs (medium- hard): if the player plays to the ICs correct stregnths then things get hard
Yokoson said:
Luigi (medium): A mario is a mario
Luigi has similar wieght to a Mario, but doesn't have the same attaccks or patterns. His Wavedash is obscene, his aerials > You, his mobility > Yours, so i think its a little harder...
Yokoson said:
Roy(medium): When did Roy move so high on the list?!!
He has a sword... Not too dangerous, but still a sword.
Yokoson said:
Dk (medium): DK is a goon, combo doll
IMO, his Range and priority eats Kirby up. his Grab hurts, too.
Yokoson said:
Pika(medium-hard): YOU GOT THE RIGHT ON BABY UH HUH
Yokoson said:
Zelda(easy-medium): Naruy's Love with Kirby = Mewtwo's spamming neutral air. Besides that a Zelda looking for a Kill is easy to spot and avoid (oh look shes in the air, I wonder what move she's gona use?)
I'm not necessarily a Zelda specialist.

Yokoson said:
Ness(easy-medium): Possibly the easiest person to kill of off the edge
Yokoson said:
Kiry(medium): Kirby = Kirby, really any other ranking would break the laws of Math
Indeed. This battle is all skill... or luck, whichever one comes first.
Yokoson said:
My thoughts exactly. :laugh:
Yokoson said:
G&W(medium-hard): Air air air
Disjointed hitboxes, crazy aerials, and hte throw to Nair combo all hurt Kirby seriously. the D-tilt Kills CC.
Yokoson said:
Bowser(easy) = Kirby's Bowser breath, combo bag, slow as mud
Whirling fortress is why hes hard, i dunno, i asked on the bowser forums.
Yokoson said:
Mewtwo (easy-medium): Not too many effective Kill moves for M2
He's to floaty, but the U-air may work. Spikes are nearly useless IMO.
Yokoson said:
Pichu(AUTO WIN): haha I kid
Pichu is a pathetic Pikachu, so...

Sheik may have grab combo's, but the Grab IIRC is too high for Kirb's duck. D-tilts eat Sheik up, and i think her Dair kills hte U-tilt combos at times. I'll change the character rankings, but not necessarily to an extreme degree.

I never said Kirby owns sheik, i said he may be able to gain a slight advantage, so...

Thanks for the arguements, its good to know i'm getting feedback.
 

Yokoson

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Nitro, you wouldn't happen to know the argument as to why Bowser counters Kirby now would you? I looked in the Bowser boards and found no evidence.

And again, sorry for any....over the topness I might have shown. I'm just so passionate.

And again, and again, more debate.
 

nitro-blazer

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I think it has to do with Low percent Fortress kills and other things. I have no idea, i'd try asking in the Bowser Counters thread, but I'm not exactly on the best of terms with MagnuM right now...

Here is the thread stating that Bowser Counters Kirby, albeit i find no evidence in it...

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=57237

EDIT: After conducting a search, i found the thread with the evidence

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=848755#post848755

Though its old, so i wouldn't be bumping it...
 

Yokoson

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That Bowser thread is a classic example of the problems suffered when you have a disscussion about Kirby. There isn't a large knowledge base of a 'good Kirby's' playing tactics and styles so people seem to acknowledge and reinforce out dated and inaccurate Kirby stereotypes. The Kirbys they play against aren't the type of Kirby's that we should draw any type of meaningful conclusions from. Just like those piss poor Bowsers we all play aren't the type of Bowsers we should draw any meaningful conclusions from.

I'll try to do a right up later, but as it stands the Bowser countering Kirby arugment is bunk.
 

Omnigamer

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I've had opportunities to fight two of the best Bowsers, GrabFestBowser and Arash, and these are my thoughts on the matchup.

Whirling Fortress is of course the main killer. Sure, it can be seen ahead of time when Kirby's on the approach, but it's most dangerous when you don't see it coming. Yokoson said it himself: Bowser is slow and heavy. It's because of this that Bowser players have had to develop ways to protect themselves from the combo starters (mainly grabs) and find ways to fit Fortresses in after laggy attacks when you wouldn't expect it. This was the common problem I found when I was fighting both players. From there though, they have two completely different styles that affect Kirby in different ways.

Arash is very centered around speed. Finding the fastest way to go between a set of attacks with relative safety and still be in a finishing safe position. He was also very profficient with Bowser's dash grab which I'm pretty sure is actually the longest-ranged grab in the game. Also, because of where the hitboxes appear, a crouching Kirby can be grabbed. This may not sound like a whole lot just reading it, but combined with the oddness of Bowser's dd, it's quite scary until you realize what's going on.

GrabFestBowser, on the other hand, was based much more into mindgames and priority. The first thing that I noticed is that it's very hard to get inside aerially against a well-placed fair. Bowser's fair may not seem like much, but it comes out very quick and has a good deal of hidden range. It'll beat out a Kirby fair or whiffed bair more often than not. Also, it'll be able to get through right in that time where there are no hitframes on the Final Cutter, making recovery iffy sometimes. On the same subject of odd edge-gaurds, I fell victim to a Bowser Bomb to edge (!?!) edge-gaurd a number of times when recovering. Even if you successfully evaded the Bomb with an air-dodge, it'd usually follow with Bowser's all-too-good <100 ledge-attack, which would toss you back out and usually out of position to recover. Other than that, Koopa Klaw can catch Kirby a number of times in weird places, and a Klaw bthrow is death at 90 in a lot of cases. Bowser's ftilt will also beat out Kirby's in priority, and it stays out much longer, so it's something to be wary of.

Despite all that, Kirby still just needs a good combo starter to get Bowser down. From fighting both of the above players, I went about even, so I'd give this matchup a medium.
 

Omnigamer

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As for the blank Yoshi ratings, I only have a single paragraph, as opposed to the 3 for Bowser ^_^;

I've only had one chance against a Yoshi player (Tacoom) during the low-tier tournament at FC3. This is about all I can tell you: Kirby should pull out on top. Yoshi relies on the dtilts and dsmash to get under an opponent's shield, normally, but since Kirby is so low to the ground as is, it's much harder for them to pull it off. That, and Kirby's normal tilts will beat out Yoshi's. IIRC, a Yoshi fsmash will miss a crouching Kirby, and most of Yoshi's aerials don't set Kirby up for to many things. Also, if all three hits of the fair connect while Yoshi's doing his second jump, it'll take it away and he'll drop to his death. But Yoshi isn't completely without defences... dtilts can sometimes get through a Final Cutter to recover and eggs tend to mess Kirby up.

I say easy. Ish.
 

nitro-blazer

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Omnigamer said:
IIRC, a Yoshi fsmash will miss a crouching Kirby,
Nope >_>. I tried it out in training. Maybe if it was angled up, but it still hits a crouching Kirby. The CC however makes it barely move him at low percents.
 

Dr.Peabody

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marth and samus are the hardest for kirby, then followed by the floaties (jiggs and peach)... ness can be a prob too with his bat and >_<

fox and falco can be hard for any char (part of the reason they r high tiers), but kirby can get though combos on them good, and a dair = death past an edge... id say medium-hard to medium for them

bowser is a combo target once kirby can get in close, about medium-easy for bowser

(all this has been said before but o well)
 
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