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Guide The Puffball from Popstar Ver 2.1

Cos.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
302
Location
Switzerland
I know I'm not a superb smasher, and my Kirby is far from great. But I hope you don't mind the comments I'll make. Correct me if I'm wrong somewhere.

First off, I liked the guide. There were two three things list, I hadn't thought of myself. That should improve my style.

Some of my thoughts on some attacks:
Nair: I'm still working on it, but if you pull it off shortly enough before you touch the ground, it seems to have some potential, as it never seems to lag (I think the guide mentioned that ) I'm still working on it. I think the timing is a bit different than a shuffle. But I don't know how good this can be :urg: .
I think the dash A is hard to shield grab (since you usually run through their shield, unlike other dashes)... it doesn't make the attack good in any sense (I somehow never use it), but maybe it's good to know.
As to the fear of being meteored (this doesn't go for spikes). I'm quite bad at meteor canceling (I hardly ever manage to time right with B ups), but I cancel meteors with ease with Kirby. Even Ganondorf's meteor doesn't work that well on my Kirby with 150% (I almost stay on Ganondorf's heigt)... and I doubt that's because I'm good (because I'm not). After that you can punish the oppent for trying to meteor you (since they're usually still in lag).
I don't know about Kirby's grabs. I actually love his graps (the up and down ones), but playing against CPUs I made some unfriendly discoveries. Quite a few characters can hit and arial on you after a d-grab, before you've recovered from grab lag. Some stand on the ground and can try an attack (but that can be shielded against)... If CPUs can reacter in such a manner... good players can too. That's why I often use the u-grab (maybe I shouldn't), since you can use most arials if the opponent isn't knockback to much (and doesn't kill you with arial quickness as a Luigi). Just thought I'd comment that.

Why doesn't anyone suck on the edge, fall a while and and copy their ability instead of spitting them out?... It's safer than suicide canceling... and kills charaters with bad recovery... and you've copied an ability :) .

Well, those were some thoughts for the moment... Need to go on.
 

Dr.Peabody

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
332
Location
St. Louis
Cos. said:
Why doesn't anyone suck on the edge, fall a while and and copy their ability instead of spitting them out?... It's safer than suicide canceling... and kills charaters with bad recovery... and you've copied an ability :) .

if u swallow they go up and kirby goes down = bad
if u spit them out they go up and kirby goes down = bad
if u let them drop out they go down and u go up = good

usualy people struggle to go out, so u dont have to suicide cancel much




http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=56836 <--------- kirby matchup forum!!!
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
Completed!

About time too, i finally decided to use what i knew about M2 to make a matchup, ableit i know little about Mewtwo. At least its done! I'll still be updating the Battle techniques and adding stuff ot the guide, but anyway...
:bluejump:

Oh, yea, the D-throw is easily sexkicked out of, however, it can hit mutliple opponents... I should add those... :/
 

SonicZeroX

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2005
Messages
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3DS FC
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In Omni's movie, The Kirby Cheat, he actually preforms 7-10 midair jumps before landing! It's the part near the beginning where he does the suicide cancel trick.

So does suicide cancel give back all your jumps? Or does simply using neutral B move give them back? If so, Kirby has Infinite recovery! O.o
 

DeathscytheHello

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
312
When the opponent is released by either death or escape (not spitting out from Kirby), Kirby will regain all jumps.

Speaking of down-throw... Kozzymoto personally showed me the extreme bad part of the down-throw... Normally, I'd only have fallen for this once... but let me explain this a bit.

Alright, so, there's a guy that I play with often that, although not the smartest person, is really good at Smash. He can break out of throws like a mad-man. So, fighting him a lot, I usually had to immediatly throw to negate the risk of the break out. It grew more into my game, and I'd only punch at higher percents (naturally).

Alright, so, the really bad part about the downthrow against Jigglypuff... I don't think I need to explain this... So, I do it once. That's reasonable- I did not know Jigglypuff could do that from there. But then, when I grab again, I am shocked and afraid that my fingers without my brain's permission did the down-throw... again. It happened one more time, too... So now, if anything, I automatically up-throw...

Are there up-throw counters out there?
 

Omnigamer

All the things
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
4,412
Location
Boston, MA
Depends on what you try to do to follow up on the uthrow. And don't feel bad about the dthrow reflex; I play Kozzy all the time and I still will make use of the dthrow muscle memory and find myself dead from a rest shortly after. If you're watching percentages closely though, I believe somewhere above 50%, you'll actually be able to shield before the Jiggs can rest, pretty much giving you a free usmash KO after the missed rest. A little risky, but will work quite a bit if you know your damages.

And SonicZeroX, yes, swallowing somebody in midair will restore all of your jumps. This improves its practicality for certain situations (only slightly, though), and is what makes the swallowcide cancels feasible in the first place.
 

SonicZeroX

Smash Lord
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Omnigamer said:
And SonicZeroX, yes, swallowing somebody in midair will restore all of your jumps. This improves its practicality for certain situations (only slightly, though), and is what makes the swallowcide cancels feasible in the first place.
I have a new Cruel melee strat now... :chuckle:
 

Dr.Peabody

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
332
Location
St. Louis
another problem with the dthrow sometimes... chars with sex kicks >.<
the u throw seems so be safe, since in most cases kirby can get to the ground before the opponent can recover. ive been playin around with a down airdodge right after the uthrow to get down quicker. then u can usualy chain throw or combo depending on %
 

DeathscytheHello

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
312
I often use the Final Cutter after that. It just seems appropriate. Otherwise, I also wavedash back to the ground.

Just a question... does anyone else love using the upthrow as a dodge in a free-for-all/team situation? I know I do! :chuckle:
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,399
Location
Donkey Kong.
SonicZeroX said:
I have a new Cruel melee strat now... :chuckle:
They'll get you when your recovering, plus, it will take a liong time...

I Upthrow in a group to hit multiple people, D-throw works too. I should've put the REcieve all jumps back in the guide.. I'll get on that when i get home. (At school, Math class, teacher coming. BYE!)
 

Buttcrust

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
643
Location
Pickerington, OH
First of all, great guide. I noticed a couple of things though. I think I read somewhere on here that Roy is not heavier than Marth, he just falls faster. And I'm not sure of this, but will the u-b trick with Roy work on Kirby? I'd also like to point out that the suicide cancel can be ledge-hopped. It's a fairly effective anti-edgeguard. Just hit down then immediately jump and inhale. The inhale also has some crazy hitboxes. If you're above someone and they are juggling you an inhale should take priority over their attacks and you suck them up from underneath (I know this works against DK, but I'm not sure about all characters). You can also swallow from behind in some instances though it generally isn't worth trying. But again, this is a very good guide in my opinion. Well done.
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
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Donkey Kong.
Thanks for the posts, and sorry for my lack of posts... My internet has been disconnected at my house, and i couldn't get on... I may be able to sneak on at school, but if i got caught, then i'd be screwed there as well. I hope you understand. I'll still be working on the guide at home on word and i will update when i'm online again. (Being below the poverty line sucks.)
 

King Kong

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
1,451
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Good guide dude. One of the better ones i've read. Thanks for giving me credit for the DK matchup too, it took me a while to remember if i actually did help out there.

peace out
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Donkey Kong.
King Kong said:
Good guide dude. One of the better ones i've read. Thanks for giving me credit for the DK matchup too, it took me a while to remember if i actually did help out there.

peace out
Thanks, I appreciate it. Thanks for the help, too. I couldn't just take information that came from you, right? It would be wrong of me not to give credit where credit is due.

Anyway, i'm in the process of getting up off my butt and updating soon. Advance Wars and Mario Kart really ate up my life recently.
 

DeathscytheHello

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
312
I'd like to add in something with the ground hammer. I was looking at the guide again and came across that section and was reminded of my new self-proclaimed signature move. I've yet to name it something good, but for right now, I call it the wavehammer.

It's a rather simple to do, and by no means is it a great option, but I like doing this. It's just seeing your opponent come in for an attack, dash grab, whatever, wavedashing backwards while pulling out your hammer, and by the time it comes out, they should be in the sweetspot and probably dead at high percents. It's my favorite finisher to pull off. Pretty useful when used correctly, though you gotta know when to use it and who to use it against.
 

Kirbysmasher11

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
10
Location
Knoxville TN
This guide is great. It's the most in-depth kirby guide I've seen. However, I have an addition and an addition/statement...thing.

First off; you have some pretty good info on Kirbycides (the name I use for his suicide), but I noticed something missing, so I'll type it up here:

Another trick to pull off an effective "suicideless suicide" is to fall, then spit them out at a nearly impossible to exit from area. Places this works well on are levels like Pokemon Collosseum and Final Destination; i.e. long flat levels that float. The trick is to spit them out so that they're UNDER the stage, making recovery not impossible, but very hard. It's best to spit them out as high as you can, as the trick is that the cieling immeadiately cuts off their jumps. HOWEVER; it's a possibility that the opponent will expect this, fall to the direction of the edge, and successfully recover. Also; refrain from using this on Pikachu or Pichu. Their quick attack completely kills these strategies.

Also; you said Kirby is a better attacker on the ground than in the air, but I find this to not be true. He can create some darn effective combos using arieals. One in particular that I enjoy is, at a high percentage (100+) use an up throw and combo into an U-Air. The throw's force will bounce them pretty high at their percentage, and the U-Air will usually finish them. His specials (minus swallow) are also quite good in mid-air, but the best for the air is definately the hammer. Not only does it have exceptional range and coverage (keeping Kirby safe from close-up attacks); but it also can do quite a bit of damage if used correctly.


Other than that; the guide is the best Kirby guide I've had the pleasure to read. Congratulations.
 

Omnigamer

All the things
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
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Boston, MA
Kirbysmasher11 said:
This guide is great. It's the most in-depth kirby guide I've seen. However, I have an addition and an addition/statement...thing.

First off; you have some pretty good info on Kirbycides (the name I use for his suicide), but I noticed something missing, so I'll type it up here:

Another trick to pull off an effective "suicideless suicide" is to fall, then spit them out at a nearly impossible to exit from area. Places this works well on are levels like Pokemon Collosseum and Final Destination; i.e. long flat levels that float. The trick is to spit them out so that they're UNDER the stage, making recovery not impossible, but very hard. It's best to spit them out as high as you can, as the trick is that the cieling immeadiately cuts off their jumps. HOWEVER; it's a possibility that the opponent will expect this, fall to the direction of the edge, and successfully recover. Also; refrain from using this on Pikachu or Pichu. Their quick attack completely kills these strategies.

Also; you said Kirby is a better attacker on the ground than in the air, but I find this to not be true. He can create some darn effective combos using arieals. One in particular that I enjoy is, at a high percentage (100+) use an up throw and combo into an U-Air. The throw's force will bounce them pretty high at their percentage, and the U-Air will usually finish them. His specials (minus swallow) are also quite good in mid-air, but the best for the air is definately the hammer. Not only does it have exceptional range and coverage (keeping Kirby safe from close-up attacks); but it also can do quite a bit of damage if used correctly.


Other than that; the guide is the best Kirby guide I've had the pleasure to read. Congratulations.
Your swallowcide tactic has been brought up many times before, but is nonetheless flawed. When you spit somebody out, not only do they get huge upward momentum, but they also regain their second jump because the swallow counts as a grab. In addition, Kirby is actually pushed down, making it slower/harder for him to recover. All in all, it's usually better to just let the swallow go and attempt a swallowcide cancel.

As far as your second point, Kirby does have great aerial combos (sometimes), but as an upfront attacker he has much more trouble in the air than on the ground. It's better to start something on the ground then continue it in the air. Approaching in the air will usually just lead to trouble. And uthrow combos are all entirely dependent on one thing: DI. Your example (I'm assuming you're talking about space animals) only works sometimes, because they need to be either not DIing at all or DIing backwards for it to work. Under the same circumstances, a chainthrow is actually possible at 70%+. As for all other characters, uthrow to uair will work below 15% or so, but also only under the same circumstances. You may get it off once, but don't expect to do it a second time on the same person.

The aerial hammer has a couple good ways to be used correctly. Try to find some info on the Short-hopped Aerial Hammer (SHAH) or Reverse Aerial Hammer (RAH) tactics for better use.
 

Blazey

Magical Love Gentleman
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The only time I would (and have) spit them out at the bottom of the map is Battlefield and Dreamland 64, because they get stuck under the level (with the exception of characters like Pikachu). On places like FD, the upward momentum that Omni mentioned just pushes them up the side (letting them recover really easily) while Kirby goes down. It actually ends up benefiting the opponent.
 

Omnigamer

All the things
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Even at stages like BF and DL64, if the opponent isn't jumpy they can easily live. So long as they don't use their second jump early on, they can easily live, as you can move yourself a bit while the momentum is still pushing you against the ceiling.
 

Da Boogy Man

Banned via Administration
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Feb 20, 2006
Messages
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Hi guys, what's up? I didn't see it in the guide, and i havn't heard it said yet in the convo, but there is on really good combo i know works on the people i play with at least. I have not had a chance to get around to anybody REALLY GOOD with my kirby, but it will happen. Anyways...

I would go with a grab near the edge, Dthrow to Utilt tilt at good hight, or less effectivness,(works best on FF and Low %) then Shop-Bair, FFall, land, jump out and Dair 2 to 3 times. It has rarely failed me yet, i believe actually, the only time it ever fails me is against a Marth or Roy and their RETARDEDLY good at stoping edge guarding Third Jump. But try it out everybody, and tell me if it works for you, so i know if it is a valid thing, or if i am just getting lucky by playing people who can't get away from it!

p.s. why is there no posts between mine and the one befor me? That was posted on APRIL 7th!!!!! ****.
 

t!MmY

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Against more capable opponents, Kirby's D-throw is easily teched, if not DI'd, and even if it isn't and you get an U-tilt on them, I doubt they're going to be DI'ing the U-tilt off the stage or not DI'ing at all and giving you a free B-air. Then again, I've pulled off more than that on people who don't DI well...
 

Da Boogy Man

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True, but even if they DI out of it, when they are at low percent it is just about GOING to hit every time. Teching out, don't have anybody who does that on the crew i play with. They do with like Fox or Falco's down throw, but never my kirby's! I don't know why!
 

Vicious Delicious

tetigit destruens
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Wow, very nice guide, but alot to take in and impossible to memorize in one sitting :) But I will definetly use this guide as refrence and for tips i may have missed. Thx much
 

DJLO

Smash Journeyman
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Tallahassee
just a suggestion for the stuff you said was to come, maybe a section on Kirby's glitches?

Awesome guide btw.
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
Fairly sure you can't tech directly out of Kirby's down throw like you can Fox and Falco's, but the throw lag is horrendous for a throw of that type.

I'd also like to add that Roy's difficulty rating should be upped quite a bit, simply because he can crouch cancel almost all of your moves into a Dtilt because of his weight and fall speed. His recovery is also more difficult to edgeguard than Marth's, and on short stages and places like the Fin on Corneria, the Reverse Blazer (Roy's Up-B, done so he turns away and only hits with the first hit) can kill Kirby at any %, because it is fixed knockback.
 

blendy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
10
the kirbycides could be a good thing or a bad thing if you know how to use the technique
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
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Jun 22, 2005
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Alright, I've reread the thread, and I think it's time for an update. I'm going to go through the forum to see anything I missed, and if I get enough free time [between japanese lessons, DJU, School and job] I'll update my guide.

That, and I'm back. I took a break from SWF [still discussing SSBM on other sites], but I may return now.

On another note, thanks for the Criticism and praise everyone. It's good to know I've contributed something worthwhile.
 

nitro-blazer

Smash Lord
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Expect various, yet wide-scale updates at various points throughout the upcoming week.

Main points include throws, all aerials, most tilts, and gameplay.
 

SkaManifesto

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In my experience, if your going up against jigglypuff, it seems best to get her off the stage and Bair on her without mercy. This works especially well if your dealing with an inexperienced jiggly.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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One more thing...

When fighting Roy, watch out for a sweetspotted Reverse Blazer.

It kills Kirby, Jiggs, Pichu, and on some occasions, Peach and Pikachu almost instantly. The ceiling death barrier just has to be close enough, which isn't close at all...

Just so you know...I hope no Roy players are reading this though...
 

t!MmY

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Don't tell me you've actually been KO'd by that. 0_0

I didn't even think it worked on Kirby...
 

nitro-blazer

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I'm not sure how it works. I'm thinking I'll test it on some low ceiling stages, see if it can kill. It is set knockback, right?
 

Triple_R2

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Oct 26, 2006
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During school, at the U, Minneapolis, MN; otherwis
After hearing about Roy's up-b kill I kinda went experimented myself. It only kills on Yoshi's Island if you are on a platform. In Corneria it only kills on the fin and the hump in the front of the ship. It kills on the highest platforms in Onett. It works on the two platforms in Pokemon Stadium. It only works on the top platform on Battlefield. And on Kongo Jungle 64 it only works on the two rotating platforms when they are at their peak height lol. I guess you could add it to your guide if you want, but I don't think it's a huge threat. The chances of a Roy pulling it off are probably slim since you have to be on certain stages and then sometimes on certain platforms to do it. At least I don't think it's too much of threat for Kirby.
 
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