Social The Pond: Greninja Social Thread and General Discussion

[MartinAW4]

Today Lea won another online tournament. This time he faced off against Lean's Link in the finals. You can see Lea is starting to use more parries in his gameplay. And his movement around Link's projectiles was really good. He did get cheesed by several stage spikes in later games (which are way stronger in this game than in Smash 4, any weak hit can send you flying into the blastzone as if you were hit by a Smash attack, I do not like this change personally). But Lea managed to avoid getting tilted from this and secured his win with really good consistent gameplay. The Link player was really good at DIing and teching Greninja's combos, so Lea couldn't get as much off his strings as usual.

 

[Firox]

Today Lea won another online tournament. This time he faced off against Lean's Link in the finals. You can see Lea is starting to use more parries in his gameplay. And his movement around Link's projectiles was really good. He did get cheesed by several stage spikes in later games (which are way stronger in this game than in Smash 4, any weak hit can send you flying into the blastzone as if you were hit by a Smash attack, I do not like this change personally). But Lea managed to avoid getting tilted from this and secured his win with really good consistent gameplay. The Link player was really good at DIing and teching Greninja's combos, so Lea couldn't get as much off his strings as usual.

Catching that bomb recovery with his fair at the end was a thing of beauty

 

[MartinAW4]

Catching that bomb recovery with his fair at the end was a thing of beauty

Yeah that's one of the weaknesses of Link's new Bomb recovery that will likely get exploited more in the future. Link gets sent so far, that you can often hit combo him off his own bomb knockback. In the match Lea had several opportunities to punish this, yet he managed to land the very last one which honestly seemed like the hardest one to react to, but Lea was there ready with the slowest of Greninja's aerials so he had to see it coming long in advance.

 

[Waka_Waka_do_do_yea]

Hi hello!
I played a lot of Zelda the first weeks of Ultimate, but the last week has been all about the G-ninja. Watching iStudying's weekened at Armada's place gave me this itch to try the frog. I've been really liking this character and I think i'll settle for quiet some time. There's techy speedy things to do! Online has been my main practice so far.

Long time no see smashboards!
oh and btw, just now realized you could angle the substitute o_o.

 

[Gekkouga]

Akashic now won Spectrum 2. It's looking very good for frogs all over the world

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Hey guys, not Greninja related but I made a Smash Bros animation of Melee Fox playing Fox in Ultimate. I plan on doing one with Greninja next and would love your feedback.

Watch the animation here

 

[Firox]

Yeah, I couldn't believe how many early tier lists had Greninja placed so low. His out of shield game is pretty sad but his speed, power and combo game are constantly overlooked due to his relatively high skill floor. So far, I think Eventhubs has the most accurate tier list for ultimate with Greninja placed among the top 15. Seems fair. He's awesome, but I can understand why he'd struggle with the likes of Chrom and Pikachu.

lol, never mind, I've lost my faith in Eventhubs' tier list. Greninja supposedly plummeted from 15th to 24th in a week for no apparent reason. They dropped him under Corrin, Palutena and K. Rool. No way that's accurate. I guess the recent tournament placements aren't enough for people to stop sleeping on Greninja. Oh well, it's for the best I suppose. Better to be underestimated than cowering beneath the future nerf bat.

 

[Kevandre]

I really thought I'd be in with Ivysaur for the long haul in Ultimate, but really it's almost always Greninja for me these days

 

[Gekkouga]

Gren is just soo much fun lol

 

[MartinAW4]

Exactly, whenever I try to play a different character, even a top tier, I always end up missing either the speed or the disjointed reach or the kill power and kill confirms, or often several of those at once. Greninja might be difficult to learn but once you do, it's really hard to go back to anyone else.

 

[Firox]

Exactly, whenever I try to play a different character, even a top tier, I always end up missing either the speed or the disjointed reach or the kill power and kill confirms, or often several of those at once. Greninja might be difficult to learn but once you do, it's really hard to go back to anyone else.

Yeah, it kinda irks me when people immediately dismiss Gren as only "decent" tier when they have absolutely no idea what their missing. No other character I've played has quite the same mixture of speed, combos and kill power. And no matter what anyone says, I still think he's one of the most awesome-looking characters to watch in a fight.

 

[Lore]

Exactly, whenever I try to play a different character, even a top tier, I always end up missing either the speed or the disjointed reach or the kill power and kill confirms, or often several of those at once. Greninja might be difficult to learn but once you do, it's really hard to go back to anyone else.

Absolutely. I think I've found my main in Greninja.

For whatever reason, this character just ticks every box for me. Great reach, speed, kill power, and recovery.

 

[MartinAW4]

It seems Plup has picked up Greninja! He has a very unique playstyle with a very high use of Nair and Ftilt. This is probably what it looks like when you have top player movement and neutral but you're still new to the character. If he decides to main Greninja and polishes up his follow ups and kill confirms, he'll be an absolute monster. I always found that Greninja truly shines when you master his movement. And Plup being the movement god from melee might be the one capable of pushing Greninja to the limits and unlike Venia or Lea, he travels a lot to majors, so we'd get to see him compete vs the best players in the world.

Here are his practice matches vs Void's Daisy:

Venia also just won another tournament. His play looks very good already and so different from Lea. Venia is all out offensive pressure and movement with the occasional crazy option, that often works while Lea is all about precise Fair spacing, great at avoiding attacks and follow-ups and very optimized combos, usually going for the most reliable and guaranteed options. I'm not sure anymore who is the better Greninja. It would be really interesting watching a match between these two.

I found this game to be the best from Venia's games today:

 

[Firox]

I gotta say, between Venia, Lea and Istudying, I'm going to have to go with Venia as the best Greninja right now. I love Istudying and he was a great inspiration to Greninjas everywhere during Sm4sh, but Venia just seems so much more polished right now. Lea has great fundamentals and spacing but doesn't quite have the clean reaction time that Venia has.

 

[Lore]

It's inspiring to see so many people picking up Greninja. I think the community is waking up to how good he is.

 

[Lore]

^ And after Frostbite, it has only continued to build. Hell yes.

 

[Firox]

^ And after Frostbite, it has only continued to build. Hell yes.

I know right? Lea, Plup and Akashic gave the ninja frog a pretty good showing and the fact that a wario could win the tourney means that the meta is far from a shutout.

 

[Lore]

Exactly. The meta has been exciting to watch develop so far, and I suspect we will only see more wins from Greninja.

 

[MartinAW4]

Exactly. The meta has been exciting to watch develop so far, and I suspect we will only see more wins from Greninja.

Yes, especially considering how Lea seemed very dominant throughout most of the set vs Cosmos. I do not think their next encounter will end in a loss for Lea and even in the set they played, it seemed like Lea choking away an almost guaranteed win.

And vs MVD that seemed mostly like matchup inexperience since I don't remember Lea having played any good Snakes in Japan. I'm pretty sure Greninja wins that matchup without much trouble once Lea practices it more. It's similar to ROB, Lea struggled with it at the start but once he practiced it a bit, he ended up 3 stocking Wadi's ROB in tournament.

Plup also has good potential. The main thing I found missing from his play compared to Lea were RAR Bair follow ups from Dash Attack and Dtilt. If he incorporates those into his game and studies some games from Lea, he might become one of the top Greninjas. He's improved a lot even within the short time from his match vs Void's Daisy up to Frostbite, so if he keeps this up, he could be a big threat.

 

[MartinAW4]

Wow, Stroder just beat Tweek at Ultimate Nimbus! His Greninja improved so much since the last time I've seen him play. The Greninja mains have been really upping their game lately. I still think Lea is overall the best Greninja main, but it would be really interesting to have a Greninja saga like in Smash 4 to see who manages to come out on top. In the last one, it was Lea who placed highest and eventually lost to ZeRo.

Here's the set:

 

[Firox]

Wow, Stroder just beat Tweek at Ultimate Nimbus! His Greninja improved so much since the last time I've seen him play. The Greninja mains have been really upping their game lately. I still think Lea is overall the best Greninja main, but it would be really interesting to have a Greninja saga like in Smash 4 to see who manages to come out on top. In the last one, it was Lea who placed highest and eventually lost to ZeRo.

Here's the set:

I'm glad I'm not the only one geeking out about this. Stroder's set was AWESOME! He beat arguably the best player in Smash Ultimate right now! As for Lea's performance at Frostbite, I totally agree that he choked on that set with Cosmos. He was dominating almost the entire time and then his game suddenly got super sloppy. Still, he's made me a believer. I used to think Venia was the strongest greninja out there, but the scales are definitely tipping in Lea's favor right now.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

hey guys, made a fun little animation around the buffs Greninja got in this game. Hope you enjoy it

 

[Firox]

Since when did MKLeo pick up Greninja??? I usually like to root against him but if he actually gives the frog some representation, what am I supposed to do?

 

[MartinAW4]

Since when did MKLeo pick up Greninja??? I usually like to root against him but if he actually gives the frog some representation, what am I supposed to do?

Most people don't know that MKLeo had a Greninja from early on in Smash Ultimate. He just didn't use him in tournament, so people didn't get to see him. He probably still needed practice since Greninja has a very different playstyle from the traditional swordsmen that MKLeo likes to use. But it seems that at Summit he finally pulled him out vs ZeRo and he did play well.

But the reason I am more excited about Plup picking Greninja than MKLeo is because Greninja is not a good secondary character to have. He really shines when you solo main him and not pull him out for a specific matchup or two. And Greninja doesn't seem to fit MKLeo's style as well as someone like Lucina, so I don't think he'll keep using Greninja for long.
On the other hand who better to have maining Greninja than the movement god from Melee? For Plup it seems like a perfect fit. And he's learning very fast. Despite losing at Summit relatively early, he still kept it pretty close vs the best players in the world.

He had some trouble closing out the stocks, but that'll come with practice. Greninja has plenty of kill confirms and frame traps he can use in many different situations. He's still not at the level of the other top Greninjas like Lea, Venia and Stroder, but if he keeps improving at this pace, it won't be long before he catches up.

 

[Y2Kay]

Hello everyone, I will be the Mod for Greninja boards in Ultimate btw

Also, Leo played Greninja to CP Wolf, as he thinks Wolf loses to Gren. Pretty interesting.

 

[Ultomato]

Hello everyone, I will be the Mod for Greninja boards in Ultimate btw

Also, Leo played Greninja to CP Wolf, as he thinks Wolf loses to Gren. Pretty interesting.

He kinda proved his point too.
Very nice to see

 

[Firox]

Most people don't know that MKLeo had a Greninja from early on in Smash Ultimate. He just didn't use him in tournament, so people didn't get to see him. He probably still needed practice since Greninja has a very different playstyle from the traditional swordsmen that MKLeo likes to use. But it seems that at Summit he finally pulled him out vs ZeRo and he did play well.

But the reason I am more excited about Plup picking Greninja than MKLeo is because Greninja is not a good secondary character to have. He really shines when you solo main him and not pull him out for a specific matchup or two. And Greninja doesn't seem to fit MKLeo's style as well as someone like Lucina, so I don't think he'll keep using Greninja for long.
On the other hand who better to have maining Greninja than the movement god from Melee? For Plup it seems like a perfect fit. And he's learning very fast. Despite losing at Summit relatively early, he still kept it pretty close vs the best players in the world.

He had some trouble closing out the stocks, but that'll come with practice. Greninja has plenty of kill confirms and frame traps he can use in many different situations. He's still not at the level of the other top Greninjas like Lea, Venia and Stroder, but if he keeps improving at this pace, it won't be long before he catches up.

One thing I gotta say I really liked about MKLeo's Gren was how incredibly aggressive he was. Did you see that beastly use of Up air?! Every time Zero left the ground, it was two or three up airs right up the butt. It was definitely interesting to watch someone try to play Greninja like an FE swordsman though.

To Y2Kay's point, I found it interesting too that MKLeo would even attempt to play Gren as a counter to Wolf. Wolf is my secondary and I actually use him to counter other Greninjas! His blaster, Fair and Nair are great for canceling out Greninja's approaches if used correctly. All the more surprising that MKLeo was actually winning against Wolf for a while there. Still, I have to agree with MartinAW4. Greninja does NOT make for a good secondary character. I feel that is due to the fact that his playstyle is quite demanding and requires solid practice of his fundamentals. Wolf is much easier to shift into than away from, at least for me. After playing so much Greninja, the swordies feel almost painfully simple by comparison.

 

[Graizen]

I think you guys NEED to see this:

https://twitter.com/DuckySSB/status/1106170169615925248

So if you input Shield + Shadow Sneak, greninja gets access to a frame 1 parry called shadow parry. If you parry (or shadow parry) something, and mash side b, you can auto parry using the frame 1 shadow parry to parry moves that normally CAN'T be parried.

 

[Firox]

I think you guys NEED to see this:

https://twitter.com/DuckySSB/status/1106170169615925248

So if you input Shield + Shadow Sneak, greninja gets access to a frame 1 parry called shadow parry. If you parry (or shadow parry) something, and mash side b, you can auto parry using the frame 1 shadow parry to parry moves that normally CAN'T be parried.

HUHHH??? Holy feck, I need this in my life.