The Pledge: USA and Nazi Germany

[GwJ]

How does the Pledge of Allegiance come close to level of indoctrination in Nazi Germany? When's the last time anyone in this thread actually said the Pledge of Allegiance?

You'll find several testimonies as to when users said the pledge last if you read the thread.

As for it coming close to the indoctrination of Nazi Germany, no one said it came close. They've been comparing it to be brainwashing by the government just like Nazi Germany.

Have you read the thread or did you just pop in to make fun of us for talking about Nazis?

 

[Jon Farron]

Hmm, I've never thought about this. I can barely even remember the pledge because I haven't been in public school since 4th grade. I CAN tell you, that at the time when we always said the pledge, I never knew what it meant or ever really cared, lol. However, I always remember people getting in trouble for not saying it. ._.

Omg, we're being brainwashed.

Spoiler

But what's new?

Is there any other countries with a pledge? Because I seriously can't think of any.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Have you read the thread or did you just pop in to make fun of us for talking about Nazis?

Yes. To the latter, that is.

 

[GwJ]

Yes. To the latter, that is.

If that's the case, then please leave.

 

[Jam Stunna]

http://pledge-allegiance.blogspot.com/2009/11/americans-still-use-greeting-hello-as.html

Americans still use the greeting "hello" as they did in the early 1900's, and it is related to the greeting adopted under German National Socialism ("Heil") and thus to "Heil Hitler." http://rexcurry.net/pledgesalute.html

The term "hello" is used for hailing people and is related to the phrase "Hail to the chief" (used for the leader of the USA) and "Hail fellow well met," and to these words: hail, heal, health. It is also related to the term "salud," meaning "health," and thus to the term "salute" and the act of saluting, which included the manner of saying "hello." http://rexcurry.net/words.html

Nazis everywhere!

 

[Muhti]

A little off-topic, but when I started school with the Pledge, one of my classmates didnt say it and was caught by the teacher. He was scolded at and said he will be reported to the main teacher (we had a sub today) she said that you must respect the country that soldiers protected for... Yada yada yada

Another example of people having to do the Pledge with no option.

 

[GwJ]

But that's a case of the teacher not following the law. The law doesn't make us say it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And of course, somebody predictably has to shout "Godwin's Law!" as soon as the word "Nazi" falls, without being able to elaborate on why Godwin's Law supposedly applies to this discussion in the first place [pro-tip: it doesn't at all]. Looks like Godwin wasn't prepared for cases where a comparison is actually legitimate. But it's all cool, just keep on yelling empty terms like a little kid that has found a new favorite word to throw around without using his brain and think you are smart with it. You aren't.

I'm not pleased with where the discussion has been going - it has been rather predictable. Of the five US citizens that made their "points" here two tried to derail the thread with uneducated nonsense and two more seem to not understand. Dre immediately understood and agreed, Xonar immediately understood and agreed as well [even though he's being dumb in this thread] and neither of them are americans. That's not to say that they are smart and the americans are stupid, it just means that most americans seem to have gotten used to saying the plege so much that they fail to see the problem behind it.

Jumpman, I appreciate your efforts to keep this discussion alive and kickin' but I believe you still don't quite understand where I'm getting at. I've already mentioned thrice that it doesn't matter what the pledge itself is about. Even if it's true that the kids don't quite understand what it's supposed to mean [and by that logic it may not be "brainwashing" in its strictest sense] there is still a problem in the fact that they are pressured to say it without being allowed to question the fact that they have to say it. Do you see the issue here? Do you acknowledge that this can easily be perceived as a problem? Especially by those that haven't been exposed to such treatment?

 

[GwJ]

Jumpman, I appreciate your efforts to keep this discussion alive and kickin' but I believe you still don't quite understand where I'm getting at. I've already mentioned thrice that it doesn't matter what the pledge itself is about. Even if it's true that the kids don't quite understand what it's supposed to mean [and by that logic it may not be "brainwashing" in its strictest sense] there is still a problem in the fact that they are pressured to say it without being allowed to question the fact that they have to say it. Do you see the issue here? Do you acknowledge that this can easily be perceived as a problem? Especially by those that haven't been exposed to such treatment?

But they don't have to say it. They're also perfectly within their rights to question it. They do obviously, since many of US stopped saying it as some point in school just like I did. It'd be a problem if everyone did exactly what they were told by authorities in school, but that's not the case.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Gheb, how much firsthand experience have you had with the pledge of allegiance?

 

[Claire Diviner]

Gheb, how much firsthand experience have you had with the pledge of allegiance?

This.

If you had any experience with the pledge of allegiance, you'd know there is no obligation - be it moral or not - to cite it. The reason kids don't question it is because they're kids; once they grow old enough and their brains develop further, then they'll gain the awareness to question it as I and countless others have. It's one thing if it's a law to have to cite the pledge, but the fact of the matter is, it's not, and even the court has ruled that a citizen has every right to not cite the pledge, and that for them to be forced to do so is a violation of the First Amendment. I was pretty sure I was clear on this.

 

[GwJ]

I'll say it again. The reason I don't consider the pledge to be brainwashing (aside from the fact that you're not forced to say it) is the fact that it's never reinforced. The only time we praise our government at any time that isn't considered 100% voluntary is the pledge. Other than that, most of the time we analyze the morality or "goodness" of our government it's usually negative.

 

[FirestormNeos]

When you didn't say "Hail Hitlar!" in Nazi Germany, you got shot by an officer and made an enemy out of their government.

When you don't say the Pledge of Allegiance here in the "Home of the Free, the Donut, and the Self-Entitled Internet Troll" (fancy way of say the U.S.), you get at worst slapped by your teacher (and this is if you go to a school, and that school is really antsy about the pledge).

Yes, you could say that the government pays the school to tell the teacher to make the kids say it, but
1) it's not the case with every teacher at every school. You really expect me to believe a shady government would be picky about what schools they bribe???
2) Slapped By Your Teacher =/= Getting Shot by an Officer.

Is the PoA propaganda? Maybe. Is it far to compare it to Nazi Germany? NOPE.

 

[Claire Diviner]

2) Slapped By Your Teacher =/= Getting Shot by an Officer.

That would result in child protective services being on that teacher's a**, as well as pissed off parents. Damn the day anyone (let alone a teacher) puts their hands on my little girl... but I digress.

 

[FirestormNeos]

That would result in child protective services being on that teacher's a**, as well as pissed off parents. Damn the day anyone (let alone a teacher) puts their hands on my little girl... but I digress.

My apologies for the hyperbole. That happens when someone lacks proper experience to know what happens when someone doesn't bother saying the pledge in a school where the teachers are really antsy about that.

 

[Sucumbio]

SO late to this thread but I just wanted to point out the first person in that original thread from decisive games who actually recited the pledge wrote I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of america, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

WROTE IT. GRRRRRR.... it is CALLED the Pledge of Allegiance. You don't say the of! ><

That's okay, though. Proves the point quite nice about brainwashing lol They were so ingrained they even wrote it when saying back to themselves in their heads.

 

[The Smashing Samurai]

To me, the United States Pledge is a symbol of indoctrination and, when recited, is a pledge to such indoctrination. When I look at the pledge on a piece of paper, all I see it a pledge to have unquestioning loyalty to the nation/or government, and I consider myself pretty liberal who thinks the government should have more of an active role. Which means, according to Rush Limbaugh, I'm a "commie socialist Nazi KKK Satan worshiper."

When I look at it from a religious perspective, as I am also Atheist, it is a pledge that is specifically targeted against me, as the words "Under God" are in it. When this pledge is recited by young children, they think the United States was founded on religion. They are pledging themselves to the country, and thus, with the words "Under God" are smashed into their heads, believe that all non-believers, people like me, are "un-patriotic, American-hating, unlawful sinners."

I do not stand to recite the pledge, and until it is changed, whether tomorrow, or the day I die, I never will.