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The Pit Stimulus Package

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Phaigne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
So, we all love complaining Pit is not getting any better and we need to rethink our way of playing. So here we go... The Pit Stimulus Package, a way of refreshing the Pit boards and gaining clearer method of meta game development. I attended my first tournament awhile ago, and while not doing very well, I was able to see very clearly what our character lacks. So, here we will address these problems while discussing the overall plays tyle of Pit. Below you will find this broken up in a way to aid discussion and thinking.

(Feel free to suggest updates to the main post, there are undoubtedly things I missed)


The Pit problem:
• His reach
• His overall play style is readable


The Pit solution:
Move Analysis!
• Properties
○ Frames
○ Knockback
○ Unique properties (ex. Wind push)
• Follow ups
• Combos
• Damage
• Uses

To start, we will address all of Pit's moves as a whole, breaking them down with the analysis I've shown above (Or just general analysis). We will also discuss the overall tactics of a Pit player, which ones are effective and which ones aren't.

The Moveset:

F-Smash
Range: Mid
%- two hits first hit 7% to 3% second hit 12% to 5% (if the second hit is tippered +1%) Charged first hit 10% to 4% and charged second hit 18% to
8%
Knockback: Sends them flying at a 45 degree angle away from you. One of Pits best kill moves. (Tipper does not seem to add more knockback)
Description: Pit swings his two sword one after the other, this is one of Pits best kill moves.
Notes: Quick and quite powerful. This is an amazing attack. The only problem is at higher levels of play, people may escape the second swing via DI.
Frame Data:
Total: 48
First hit on frame 6
Second hit on frame 24
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Hit Lag: 15
Advantage:
Uses:
○ Killing
○ Damage Racking

D-Smash
Range: Mid-Short
%- In front of Pit 13% to 6% Behind Pit 10% to 5%,Charged in front 19% to 8%, Charged behind 12% to 6%
Knockback: Launches them at a 40 degree angle away from you if hit by the first swipe. The second swipe acts like a Dtilt setting up for an easy Bair. Hits on both sides, so it's great if you're unsure. If your target is inside your character you will get both hits off.
Description: Pit swings one of his swords in front of himself then one behind. Another of Pits good kill moves.
Notes: Great for punishing people who roll a lot. Has some killing potential. Overall good move.
Frame Data:
Total: 41
First hit on frame 5
Hit Lag: 30
Second hit on frame 18
Hit Lag: 29
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Uses:
○ Punishing rolls
○ Killing
○ Damage Racking

U-Smash
Range: Mid vertical
%- three hits (13%) 3>2>8 to (6%) 1>1>4 Charged (19%) 4>3>12 to (8%) 1>2>5
Knockback: Straight. The first two hits send your target down and can be used as a spike if done right, but are more often used to keep your target there so that they will be hit by the third hit which will send them flying.
Description: Pit swings his swords above his head and slightly lifts off the ground.
Notes: Mostly used for damage building rather than killing, this move is Pit's worst smash. It's actually pretty good if used in a slide. Hits players on platforms above you.
Frame Data:
Total: 46
First hit on frame 5
Hit Lag:
Second hit on frame 12
Hit Lag:
Third hit on frame 23
Uses:
○ Damage Racking
○ High Percent Killing

F-Tilt
Range: Mid-Long
%- 12% to 5%
Knockback: Moderate Knock back. Sends your target slightly above a straight horizontal line.
Description: He stabs his two swords in front of him.
Notes: One of Pit's slowest attacks, but also one of his longest ranged attacks. It can possibly kill and is able to punish rolling. Works well with arrow chasing.
Frame Data:
Total: 40
First hits on frame 14
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Spaced Fighting
○ Killing

D-Tilt
Range: Short-Mid
%- 11% to 5%
Knockback: Pops them straight up. If a opponent is holding onto the edge of the stage and you're close on top of them (The hitbox is about where Pit's front foot is) this becomes a very powerful spike, but is very hard to do. They don't have to be holding on the ledge to spike.
Description: Swings his sword at his targets feet.
Notes: Pops characters up into good combo position. Also, it is very fast with good range.
Frame Data:
Total: 29
First hits on frame 6
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Comboing
○ Damage Racking
○ Spiking

U-Tilt
Range: Short horizontal but mid vertical
%- (16%) 3>5>8 to (7%) 1>3>3
Knockback: The first hit is when Pit puts his sword on the ground to hold himself up and it is the hardest to hit with, this knocks them up slightly The two hits are when Pit kicks into the air, the last hits sends them up.
Description: Pit holds himself up with his sword and does two kicks up.
Notes: A very fast attack, but it suffers from abysmal range. Good if you are right on top of your opponent or he is on a platform above you. Also, it is a great move to perform from a Glide cancel slide.
Frame Data:
Total: 35
First hits on frame 2
Second hits on frame 9
Third hits on frame 20
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Quick Attack
○ Spacing above
○ Attack on Platforms above

U-Air
Range: Mid
%- (12%) 2>2>2>2>2>2 to (6%) 1>1>1>1>1>1
Knockback: This is another multi hitting attack where the last hit sends your opponent flying Slightly up and at an angle, to the left or right depending on DI.
Description: Pit spins his bow above his head.
Notes: A good move to hit an opponent above you. This move is great because you can angle it so that it hits an enemy who would normally hit you, protecting you from damage and hurting your opponent.
Frame Data:
Total: 31
First Hit on frame 3
Landing lag: 31
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Killing
○ Damage racking
○ Stopping Approaches/attacks

D-Air
Range: Mid
%- 12% to 5%
Knockback: Hits your target straight up.
Description: When Pit does his dair, he swings one of his swords under himself.
Notes: Good for combos and approaches. It hits in a nice arc below Pit. Has some significant landing lag if done close to the ground.
Frame Data:
Total: 38
Earliest possible hit on frame 10
Latest possible Hit on frame 17
Landing lag: 31
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Set up
○ Comboing
○ Approaching
○ Hitting opponents in a 180 degree arc below you

F-Air
Range: Mid-long
%- 13% to 5%
Knockback: Hits your target straight away from you.
Description: Pits swipes his two swords in front of himself.
Notes: A cornerstone in a good Pit's game. Great for gimping and spacing. This move is fast and deadly.
Frame Data:
Total: 28
First Hit on frame 11
Landing lag: 16
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ WoP
○ Killing
○ Damage Racking
○ Approaching

B-Air
Range: short-mid (Sweetspot is short)
%- 9% to 3% Ping 15% to 6%
Knockback: When sweetspotted, this becomes Pit's best kill move sending your target slightly up and very much to the side. If you don't hit with the sweetspot, Pit keeps his sword out for a lingering hitbox
Description: Pit connects the swords making it like a pole with a dagger at the end.
Notes: Amazing move. Good for killing, combos, and approaching. Try and keep this move fresh.
Frame Data:
Total: 27
First Hit on frame 7
Hitbox is out from frames 7-20
Landing lag: 16
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Comboing
○ Hitting opponents from odd angles
○ Damage Racking
○ High Percent Killing

N-Air
Range: Short
%- 8 hits in all, (11%) 1>1>1>1>1>1>1>4 to (8%) 1>1>1>1>1>1>1>1
Knockback: All the hits but the last have very poor knockback.
Description: Pit spins his bow around himself.
Notes: Good priority and fast coming out. Great for approaches and heavy characters. Use this move.
Frame Data:
Total: 31
First Hit on frame 3
Landing lag: 31
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Uses:
○ Approaching
○ Damage Racking
○ Splitting IC/Killing Pikmin
○ Panic Button
○ Hitting opponents all around Pit

Jab
Range: Mid
%- 3>3>5 to 3>2>2
Knockback: The first two hits have poor knockback, the last has slightly more and will keep them away from you.
Description: Does three swipes one after the next.
Notes: Comes out quite fast. Use this for any situation where you need to attack quickly. The first two hits actually pull people in, so it is a good lead in to a grab.
Uses:
○ Panic Button
○ Setup
○ Mind Games

Jab-infinite
Range: Mid
%- 3>3>1>1>1>1>1> to 3>2>1>1>1>1>1>
Knockback: Poor. This attack will constantly hit them and can be kept up for as long as you want. The attack actually has reverse knockback which means that it draws them in slightly.
Description: Does two swipes then spins his bow around himself. It also hits slightly behind Pit.
Notes: A wall of blades. This attack is nice because it has suprising range (it sucks people in) and can hold opponents in for some good damage.
Frame Data:
Total for all 3 Jabs without hitting: 63

First hit on frame 5
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:

Second hit on frame 12
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Uses:
○ Mind Games


Dash Attack
Range: Short-mid
%- 12% to 5%
Knockback: Sends them up and away from you.
Description: Pit runs forward and swings his sword at the feet of his target. This move has a lot of lag at the end making it one of Pit's slower moves.
Notes: A little laggy, but it has some killing potential. Not really the best move, use it sparingly.
Frame Data:
Total: 49
First hits on frame 6
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Panic button

Glide Attack
Range: Mid
%- 13% to 5%
Knockback: Hits your target up.
Description: Swings his sword under and in front of himself to hit his target.
Notes: When Pit swings his blades, he hits all the way from in below him, to above him and everywhere between.Great for working odd angles. Kind of slow and easily seen coming, this move has limited attack potential. If you do get it off, it has great knockback. Try to predict your opponent and get your glide attack off before they can attack you first.
Frame Data:
Total: 32
Earliest possible hit on frame 6
Latest possible Hit on frame 11
Landing lag: 2
Shield hit lag:
Shield stun:
Advantage:
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Killing Move

Neutral-B
Range: It disappears after crossing the kill zones at the sides and never goes away when shot upwards.
%- Uncharged: 5% to 2%|Charged: 11% to 5%
Knockback: Very little knockback. Good enough for gimping, though.
Description: Pit shoots an arrow that can be controlled by Pit when he is still moving or dead.
Notes: The very symbol of Pit. This is your best friend. Use it to rack up damage, keep opponents at bay, knock them off the screen, play mindgames on them, or just plain out annoy them. If you don't use this move, you should stop playing as Pit.
Frame Data:
Total: 40
Shoots arrow on frame 20
Hit Lag: 22
Uses:
○ Spamming
○ Damage Racking
○ Refreshing Moves
○ Gimping

Up-B
Range: 5 seconds of free ranged flight. 3 seconds if used again without a slight break
Knockback: Doesn't have true knockback, but right as the attack is started there is a wind push effect as WoI is started. T
Description: Pit can fly freely around the stage but if hit can not use his jumps or another WoI until he lands. If this attack is not canceled
with an attack Pit goes into free fall.
Notes: Probably Pit's biggest weakness because if he is hit out of this over a pit, he is auotmatically dead. It gives you amazing mobility in the air. Also, the wind push effect has many uses. If you use this close to the ledge, Pit will auto-cling from a large distance.
Frame Data:
Wings come out on frame 1
Total: 209
Wind is active from frames 5-16
Uses:
○ Recovery
○ Pushing opponents
○ Stopping Projectiles

Down-B
Range: Short
%- no damage it self but deals seems to deal +1 damage to reflected projectile damage
Knockback: None
Description: Pit pulls out his mirror shield to reflect projectiles or turn melee attacks around. This attack has super armor on the pullout of the shield. It can turn melee attackers around if they hit right as the shield is shining.
Notes: Pit's better reflector and object of frustration for a lot of other characters. It can spin many recoveries around (My favorites are Ness and Lucas) and reflects projectiles faster then they came. If only it were a little faster...
Frame Data:
Total: 40
Comes out on frame 5
Reflects attacks on frames 5-19
Uses:
○ Reflecting Projectiles
○ Reflecting recoveries
○ Mind Games
○ Approach

Side-B
Range: Long
%- (how ever much you want/can get off in 10sec) 2% to 1%
Knockback: Almost no knockback, but it has a windpush effect at the end.
Description: When used on the ground Pit dashes forward then spins his swords in front of himself to rack up damage. This attack can also reflect projectiles but shouldn't be your reflector of choice. Can be held out for 10 seconds.
Notes: Not one of my favorite moves. Reflects projectils and is particularly useful against Pikachu's Thunder and Snake's mortar. Try and make it where you only barely hit your opponent, so they can't DI out and punish you before the move is over.
Frame Data:
Total: 64
First hits on frame 12
Ends quickest on frame 41
Hit Lag:
Uses:
○ Damage Racking
○ Approach
○ Reflecting projectiles
○ Reflecting Thunder/Mortar

Pummel
Range: Grab
%- 2% to 1%
Knockback: None.
Description: Pit knees the character he is holding in the gut.
Notes: Great for clearing move degradation. Also, it works wonders for building up damage and angering your opponent.
Uses:
○ Extra Damage
○ Mind Games
○ Set up after release

F-Throw
Range: Grab
%- 10% to 4%
Knockback: Does good knockback and can even kill off to the side of the screen at high percents at either side of the stage.
Description: Slashes opponents to send them flying.
Notes: One of Pit's great grabs. It has a chaingrab on certain characters and is easy to follow up.
Uses:
○ Combos
○ Chaingrabs
○ Kills

U-Throw
Uses:
○ Damage Racking
○ Set up

D-Throw
Range: Grab
%- 6% to 3%
Knockback: Sends them straight up after hitting the ground.
Description: Slams opponent on the ground causing them to bounce up.
Notes: Great for combos at lower %s. Other than that, it's just fun to bounce people's faces of the ground.
Uses:
○ Set up at low %

B-Throw
Range: Grab
%- 8% to 3%
Knockback: Throws them straight back
Description: Twirls around with the enemy in tow and launches him backward doing.
Notes: Nothing really special, it's a lot like the forward throw, but looks cooler.
Uses:
○ Set up for Gimps


Advanced Techniques:
Wingdashing
Arrow Looping
○ Comboing
Multiple Arrows
Pivot Grab
 

Phaigne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
The Meta-game/Tactical Discussion:
I have recently tested a few of these things and have a few comments on each

*Wind Push: Pit's Wings of Icarus have a wind-push. It has several effects such as canceling projectiles and pushing opponents away. It's useful for correcting spacing or moving backwards while still facing towards your opponents. The main problem with this is that it often push your opponent too far to reach. It does seem possible to buffer many things with this though, including dashes and attacks. It also is useful for escaping an opponent's grab reach.

*D-Tilt Spike: A very useful quality of Pit's D-tilt is that it spikes opponents, combine this with an opponent hanging on the ledge almost guarantees death to your opponent. The list for opponents spikeable on the ledge is here: [LINK]. But what is more interesting is that when opponents stand or jump up, they are also spikeable. This limits an opponents ledge game a lot when done correctly.

*Angelic Step: Pit's sidestep has the useful property of moving him forward as he dodges. This can be used to close a gap between an opponent and yourself while dodging their attack. This is very useful as it can be done forward and backward to increase attack range significantly. All Pit mains should master the uses of this property.

*Stutter Step:

*Pivot Grab:

*Wing Lunge: Not very effective

*Jab-Jab-Grab: No actual combo, good setup, though.

*Footstool setups: UNTESTED

Points to cover:
*Approach:
*Camping: (Ledge stalling)
*Retreat: (Wingdashing)
*Control:
*Baiting: (Feint)
*Mindgames:
*Knockback:
*Spacing:
*Hitboxes:
*Hurtboxes:
*D.I. :

MORE TO COME!!!! Discuss and suggest additional info.
 

shinyspoon42

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
429
Location
Portland, OR
The Pit problem:
• His reach
• His overall play style is readable
•This is incorrect. You are saying Pit's problem is his reach? He has the arrow. Anytime you are outside their attack range, you can use the arrow. The arrow reaches most everywhere on the stage, and as such he has an excellent reach.

•There are many ways to play Pit, so it isn't readable at all. If they keep predicting what you are going to do, that is because you are probably falling into a pattern. Don't. Problem solved.


Nice work btw, good write-up. Hope this promotes discussion.
 

Hayang

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
258
Location
Connecticut
I do agree with spoon; the pit problem thing isn't really true. The rest of your post has good content, though.
 

Phaigne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
•This is incorrect. You are saying Pit's problem is his reach? He has the arrow. Anytime you are outside their attack range, you can use the arrow. The arrow reaches most everywhere on the stage, and as such he has an excellent reach.

•There are many ways to play Pit, so it isn't readable at all. If they keep predicting what you are going to do, that is because you are probably falling into a pattern. Don't. Problem solved.


Nice work btw, good write-up. Hope this promotes discussion.
I don't agree with the reach statement either, but I've heard the complaint enough to know others do. And about the prediction part, I disagree. When I played in a tourney, everyone else had a much better way to stay just out of my reach while still being able to attack. Perhaps it is his approach that is a problem, I just can't really describe it well enough.
 

Phaigne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Also, if you wouldn't mind, post your overall strategy/play style, especially if you don't have videos up.
Personally, I usually Short Hop F-Air and N-Air, I usually reserve B-Air specifically for killing, WoP all the way, and I feel that baiting opponents is very effective. I wish Pit had more combos and setups.
 

kown

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
1,700
Location
Pearland ,Texas
can u add the knockback of a move when the opponent shields? It would make it harder for the opponent to punish us.
 

teh_pwns_the

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
461
Location
Fort Collins, CO
haha yea cause stimulus packages have worked so well for america (rolls eyes)

but this actually seems useful for the boards, uhm about the whole reach thing, it sounds to me like you guys are more jsut having trouble with spacing, which is linked with reach
 

Kid Nino

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
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Heh, awesome guide. However, as stated above I don't really agree with the problems of Pit regarding his reach. However, Quite a deal of the Pit players I've faced usually follow a very simple pattern depending on the player. (By the way just the title of the thread made me think of something good to come. :D)
 

Coffee™

I need it....
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
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Location
SFL
Phaigne this thread doesn't really show anything that isn't extremely common knowledge or that isn't already in the stickied guide so I'm just go ahead and lock it.
 
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