The Patch Sucks

[Kiligar]

The patch sucks. UpperTrash, Elagtroshock are here to stay it seems. After all the build up, this? I don’t know what to say.

 

[meleebrawler]

The patch sucks. UpperTrash, Elagtroshock are here to stay it seems. After all the build up, this? I don’t know what to say.

What build-up? Who promised anything about the Pits getting changes? Besides you?

 

[Kiligar]

What build-up? Who promised anything about the Pits getting changes? Besides you?

They got nerfed, my main Dark Pit in particular. If they left them the same that would have been more preferable. After waiting months for a nerf and no buffs to my mid tier character whereas top tiers remain untouched or get buffed, of course I’m disappointed .

 

[AndrewtheAmericanDude]

TBH this does feel pretty lame. I have some confidence in what Pit already has but he kinda feels like Cloud without limit. But yeah no one promised us anything, and our arrows weren't meant to pressure shield anyway.

That said, this patch reaffirmed my belief that much like Mewtwo in Sm4sh, we now have Corrin, Mewtwo again, and Diddy get some special treatment. So it does happen sometimes. But I can't help but feel like my curse that includes my SFV main Juri of no patch adjustments will always follow me. So at least there's no nerfs I suppose.

 

[Kiligar]

TBH this does feel pretty lame. I have some confidence in what Pit already has but he kinda feels like Cloud without limit. But yeah no one promised us anything, and our arrows weren't meant to pressure shield anyway.

That said, this patch reaffirmed my belief that much like Mewtwo in Sm4sh, we now have Corrin, Mewtwo again, and Diddy get some special treatment. So it does happen sometimes. But I can't help but feel like my curse that includes my SFV main Juri of no patch adjustments will always follow me. So at least there's no nerfs I suppose.

In comparison of DP to Pit, his arrows did have decent shield pressure prepatch. Pit’s arrows had many advantages over the Silver Bow, so this may be vital to DP’s viability as a character compared to Pit. Pit’s arrows already didn’t care for shield stun, so the nerf was a joke. But DP’s did, and now? Very disappointing, when Lucina runs around with a grab range buff, continuing to invalidate Marth and make lower tier characters struggle.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Guys guys guys you aren't looking at the big picture . It is disappointing he didn't get buffed in the way that we wanted But both of these characters got a Significant buff that I think you guys are overlooking . It's not for them specifically but they benefit the most from it . Hold tight hit moves cannot be parried until the last hit . The majority of pit and dark pits moves Are multi hit move . This means if you Forward aerial or neutral aerial their shield And fast fall before the last it comes out they cannot parry At all . I know it sucks that they didn't fix a lot of the things we wanted But this Is actually kind of great For him . All of his other little nuisance problems don't really matter all that much because the character is solid .

 

[Kiligar]

Guys guys guys you aren't looking at the big picture . It is disappointing he didn't get buffed in the way that we wanted But both of these characters got a Significant buff that I think you guys are overlooking . It's not for them specifically but they benefit the most from it . Hold tight hit moves cannot be parried until the last hit . The majority of pit and dark pits moves Are multi hit move . This means if you Forward aerial or neutral aerial their shield And fast fall before the last it comes out they cannot parry At all . I know it sucks that they didn't fix a lot of the things we wanted But this Is actually kind of great For him . All of his other little nuisance problems don't really matter all that much because the character is solid .

Always good to have a positive attitude. And I won’t give up even if things didn’t go as hoped. I’ll use every single tool Pit has to his advantage in Ultimate. Patch or no patch, Pit has been “fixed” from smash 4, and that’s enough for me to keep going. You’re right though about there being indirect buffs to Pit, like the shield damage from projectiles, since his reflector is laggy, and Pit has good grounded speed and nice aerials.

 

[AndrewtheAmericanDude]

Also the dodge nerfs could be good for us in keeping dudes in our Pit blender. We have to frame trap and keep people in our active multihitting out all times anyway

 

[Hippieslayer]

The patch was fine. Get rid of that entitlement issue and don't expect things for no reason and you wont be so disappointed next time. Pit isn't even low Tier by any means, he might not ever be patchen. But I do think its likely he Will be, there's no reason to expect changes the next patch though, pits issues are not acute. Other chars are in more dire straits than him. Still there's a bunch of patchen to come, they Will probs get to him eventually.


Until then please don't go around saying stupid stuff like the patch sucks.
All the changes they made in the patch were good. Projectiles were universaly nerfed so there is No reason to ***** about that. They also buffed some underperforming characters in smart ways. They just didnt get to your character yet. Doesnt mean its a bad patch. Doesnt mean other characters are getting special treatment. It just sucks for you. But what did you expect? Again there are other characters with far more acute issues who didnt get touched yet. Game has a Huge rooster man; all in due time.

Maharba the Mystic You sure it works like that? Would make more sense that they could parry whatever hit happens to become the last one before pit touches the ground. If so it would still be a buff though since such a parry would require you to read the exact timing of the pit player touching the ground, and the pit player could just mix it up so I Guess it doesnt matter that much.

 

[Kiligar]

The patch was fine. Get rid of that entitlement issue and don't expect things for no reason and you wont be so disappointed next time. Pit isn't even low Tier by any means, he might not ever be patchen. But I do think its likely he Will be, there's no reason to expect changes the next patch though, pits issues are not acute. Other chars are in more dire straits than him. Still there's a bunch of patchen to come, they Will probs get to him eventually.


Until then please don't go around saying stupid stuff like the patch sucks.
All the changes they made in the patch were good. Projectiles were universaly nerfed so there is No reason to ***** about that. They also buffed some underperforming characters in smart ways. They just didnt get to your character yet. Doesnt mean its a bad patch. Doesnt mean other characters are getting special treatment. It just sucks for you. But what did you expect? Again there are other characters with far more acute issues who didnt get touched yet. Game has a Huge rooster man; all in due time.

Maharba the Mystic You sure it works like that? Would make more sense that they could parry whatever hit happens to become the last one before pit touches the ground. If so it would still be a buff though since such a parry would require you to read the exact timing of the pit player touching the ground, and the pit player could just mix it up so I Guess it doesnt matter that much.

The patch got to my character. Nerfed his arrows, which made him a less viable clone in comparison to vanilla Pit. Ok. Could be worse. What about lower tier characters that I don’t main? Duck Hunt was nerfed, Piranha Plant, Bowser Jr and Little Mac didn’t get the buffs they needed, with Little Mac not even appearing in the patch. Diddy Kong still has terrible recovery, Mii Gunner was hard nerfed with no compensation, and top tier threats such as swordies were free from any nerfs. Those and a few more were some of the negatives. But you’re right that there are positives as well, such as Wolf and Pichu nerfs, many of the projectile nerfs, Corrin, K.Rool and Mewtwo buffs, as well as some buffs for Diddy, Kirby and Sheik. Why did I have high expectations? That’s because the patch was in a Nintendo Direct months earlier. Pit is middle of the group, and I had many struggles in facing top tiers, which I slowly adapted to overcome, but I felt my effort put forth v a top tier opponent didn’t add up considering how close the matches would be in the end. I studied sets with Dark Pit from tourneys, creating my own playlist which I’d watch constantly, hoping to improve. I’d spend time improving my movement in training, discovering new tactics. All this time I discovered a few basic problems in Pit’s moves themselves, where they literally failed to serve their function. I’ll list a few examples. His side Special loses its super armor one frame after connecting with an opponent, meaning it can be very unreliable which is quite unfair considering how insane its lag is, being probably top 3 least safe moves on shield in the entire game. It also has a hitbox that only comes out 2 frames after hitting the opponent, meaning it has no active hitbox. This means there are many times when an opponent hits me, I armor through and hit nothing, and then get punished for the lag and end up taking double damage. His Down Special has a gimmick of blocking attacks and projectiles, but has a lot of lag which means it is one of the worst reflectors in the game, to the extent that alongside side Special I rarely see it used in tournaments. Using it as an aerial shield works sometimes, but I often get killed from beneath anyway. Also if you land with it you can easily be frame trapped, as instead of attacking the shields, the opponent can simply charge up their smash attacks and get a very early stock once they disappear due to the end lag. Due to the Up Special only being good for recovery, that means Pit has only one effective Special on stage, his arrows, which got nerfed, Dark Pit in particular suffering because the gimmick is gaining power and losing control and their shield damage was nerfed. Sorry for the long post, but I want you to begin to understand my frustrations with the patch. There are more iffy moves in Pit’s kit that I could further explain, such as his Up Tilt, Forward Tilt, Up Smash and Dair, but I think you get the idea. I don’t want it only for my main, I want it for all characters that have dysfunctional moves, and unfortunately only about 3 were helped this patch.

 

[LordYobin]

The patch sucks. UpperTrash, Elagtroshock are here to stay it seems. After all the build up, this? I don’t know what to say.

Penis stages tho

 

[Jaro235]

I think Mega Man had the worst luck out of all of the characters. How do think Mega Man mains feel about the update?

 

[Hippieslayer]

The patch got to my character. Nerfed his arrows, which made him a less viable clone in comparison to vanilla Pit. Ok. Could be worse. What about lower tier characters that I don’t main? Duck Hunt was nerfed, Piranha Plant, Bowser Jr and Little Mac didn’t get the buffs they needed, with Little Mac not even appearing in the patch. Diddy Kong still has terrible recovery, Mii Gunner was hard nerfed with no compensation, and top tier threats such as swordies were free from any nerfs. Those and a few more were some of the negatives. But you’re right that there are positives as well, such as Wolf and Pichu nerfs, many of the projectile nerfs, Corrin, K.Rool and Mewtwo buffs, as well as some buffs for Diddy, Kirby and Sheik. Why did I have high expectations? That’s because the patch was in a Nintendo Direct months earlier. Pit is middle of the group, and I had many struggles in facing top tiers, which I slowly adapted to overcome, but I felt my effort put forth v a top tier opponent didn’t add up considering how close the matches would be in the end. I studied sets with Dark Pit from tourneys, creating my own playlist which I’d watch constantly, hoping to improve. I’d spend time improving my movement in training, discovering new tactics. All this time I discovered a few basic problems in Pit’s moves themselves, where they literally failed to serve their function. I’ll list a few examples. His side Special loses its super armor one frame after connecting with an opponent, meaning it can be very unreliable which is quite unfair considering how insane its lag is, being probably top 3 least safe moves on shield in the entire game. It also has a hitbox that only comes out 2 frames after hitting the opponent, meaning it has no active hitbox. This means there are many times when an opponent hits me, I armor through and hit nothing, and then get punished for the lag and end up taking double damage. His Down Special has a gimmick of blocking attacks and projectiles, but has a lot of lag which means it is one of the worst reflectors in the game, to the extent that alongside side Special I rarely see it used in tournaments. Using it as an aerial shield works sometimes, but I often get killed from beneath anyway. Also if you land with it you can easily be frame trapped, as instead of attacking the shields, the opponent can simply charge up their smash attacks and get a very early stock once they disappear due to the end lag. Due to the Up Special only being good for recovery, that means Pit has only one effective Special on stage, his arrows, which got nerfed, Dark Pit in particular suffering because the gimmick is gaining power and losing control and their shield damage was nerfed. Sorry for the long post, but I want you to begin to understand my frustrations with the patch. There are more iffy moves in Pit’s kit that I could further explain, such as his Up Tilt, Forward Tilt, Up Smash and Dair, but I think you get the idea. I don’t want it only for my main, I want it for all characters that have dysfunctional moves, and unfortunately only about 3 were helped this patch.

Dude, paragraphs.

The projectile Nerf was global, yes it mightve hurt some characters which were in need of buffs rather than nerfs but its Still made the game better as a whole. And that matters a lot more than things being fair. You cant keep things fair if youre gonna make necessary global changes to a game with a huge set of characters.

Moreover, characters like Gunner and DHD are now in a much better state for future balanced changes; since they can now be improved upon without further encouraging projectile spamming. And without making you liable to get shieldpoked because you vad to block 1-2 projectiles while approaching many characters.

This was a great and necessary patch because of hos parrying works, and also because of the large extent to which the game is played online. Given how it was rarely worth the risk to attempt parrying projectiles (..and how it was litteraly never worth attempting it online) their shield damage was overpowered, its like it was balanced for an offline smash game with powershielding mechanics. And this change did have an impact on several high and top Tier characters, for instance: Wolf, whose blaster was plain dumb.

Instead, youre all hung up about how the patch has effected you. Some of the stuff you mention is also extremely trivial, I mean youre mad that your Main dark Pit might now be ever so very very slightly worse than regular Pit? Then play regular Pit, they are the same character. Furthermore, Diddy is supposed to have an exploitable recovery, thats intentional design which has been around since the birth of sm4sh, of course they aren't about to change that. Funny how even when it comes to one the characters whose problems were in part adressed you still find something to complain about.

I know that most of the characters they did buff still need more work, that they didnt really attempt to make them perfectly balanced with One patch. That likewise some stronger characters which got nerfed are likely still overtuned. Thats also a good thing, now they can stop and gather new data, and judge the impact of the changes they made before making more of them in later patches. Getting balance right is hard; its a delicate process. If you try to fix all of an either undertuned or overpowered characters issues in one go youre liable to either overbuff or overnerf, or youre forced to come up with cheap fixes like they did with superheavies in sm4sh.

So in conclusion, you obviously had unrealistic expectations stemming from some childish sense of entitlement as well as a lack of understanding of how balancing works. Otherwise you wouldnt be judging the patch based on such extremely narrow and egocentric criteria. I assume you are quite Young but even so, stop investing yourself emotionally to such a high degree and in such an irrational manner and stop mistaking your own failure to do so with the quality of the patch.

Lastly it needs to be said that unless youre playing at top level skill is more important than the Tier of your character. If Pits side-b is unreliable (which I agree it is, considering hos much endlag it has, just as you say) dont use it unless youre certain its gonna land. When you Keep listing issues with the Pits what comes to my mind is simply what Ive already written: That youre frustrated because of entitlement issues, a lack of understanding of balancing, unrealistic expectations (with such a huge cast the likelihood of any given character recieving something resembling the overhaul you seem to crave for the Pits was very low) and underappreciation of the changes they did make.

That being said you do a Good job of bringing Up the problems with the Pits.

 

[Kiligar]

Dude, paragraphs.

The projectile Nerf was global, yes it mightve hurt some characters which were in need of buffs rather than nerfs but its Still made the game better as a whole. And that matters a lot more than things being fair. You cant keep things fair if youre gonna make necessary global changes to a game with a huge set of characters.

Moreover, characters like Gunner and DHD are now in a much better state for future balanced changes; since they can now be improved upon without further encouraging projectile spamming. And without making you liable to get shieldpoked because you vad to block 1-2 projectiles while approaching many characters.

This was a great and necessary patch because of hos parrying works, and also because of the large extent to which the game is played online. Given how it was rarely worth the risk to attempt parrying projectiles (..and how it was litteraly never worth attempting it online) their shield damage was overpowered, its like it was balanced for an offline smash game with powershielding mechanics. And this change did have an impact on several high and top Tier characters, for instance: Wolf, whose blaster was plain dumb.

Instead, youre all hung up about how the patch has effected you. Some of the stuff you mention is also extremely trivial, I mean youre mad that your Main dark Pit might now be ever so very very slightly worse than regular Pit? Then play regular Pit, they are the same character. Furthermore, Diddy is supposed to have an exploitable recovery, thats intentional design which has been around since the birth of sm4sh, of course they aren't about to change that. Funny how even when it comes to one the characters whose problems were in part adressed you still find something to complain about.

I know that most of the characters they did buff still need more work, that they didnt really attempt to make them perfectly balanced with One patch. That likewise some stronger characters which got nerfed are likely still overtuned. Thats also a good thing, now they can stop and gather new data, and judge the impact of the changes they made before making more of them in later patches. Getting balance right is hard; its a delicate process. If you try to fix all of an either undertuned or overpowered characters issues in one go youre liable to either overbuff or overnerf, or youre forced to come up with cheap fixes like they did with superheavies in sm4sh.

So in conclusion, you obviously had unrealistic expectations stemming from some childish sense of entitlement as well as a lack of understanding of how balancing works. Otherwise you wouldnt be judging the patch based on such extremely narrow and egocentric criteria. I assume you are quite Young but even so, stop investing yourself emotionally to such a high degree and in such an irrational manner and stop mistaking your own failure to do so with the quality of the patch.

Lastly it needs to be said that unless youre playing at top level skill is more important than the Tier of your character. If Pits side-b is unreliable (which I agree it is, considering hos much endlag it has, just as you say) dont use it unless youre certain its gonna land. When you Keep listing issues with the Pits what comes to my mind is simply what Ive already written: That youre frustrated because of entitlement issues, a lack of understanding of balancing, unrealistic expectations (with such a huge cast the likelihood of any given character recieving something resembling the overhaul you seem to crave for the Pits was very low) and underappreciation of the changes they did make.

That being said you do a Good job of bringing Up the problems with the Pits.

All I wanted to see was a better balanced Smash game. I knew several months had passed and there was a balance team designed specifically to balance the game, so I did have expectations that after the patch there would be improved balance. Optimism, not self entitlement. Like I said, balance. If Pit was the most broken character in the game I’d want him to be nerfed for the sake of balance. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with balance. How you can get so many variables and have them average out in the end. I was optimistic and had high hopes that the patch would drastically improve balance, but it didn’t do quite that. And so, I must be optimistic again. I will focus on the strengths of what I have rather than the weaknesses.

You may wonder why I mentioned optimism so frequently. It’s a useful trait that allows you to pick yourself up from a fall, to bring yourself up from a tragedy or disappointment. Now you seem to be trying to chide me for that trait. “The patch sucks” was my reaction 30 seconds after reading the patch. But now I’m ready to move in a different direction, eager to improve further with my main regardless of patches. As for you, you seem particularly eager to rebuke people.

 

[Hippieslayer]

All I wanted to see was a better balanced Smash game. I knew several months had passed and there was a balance team designed specifically to balance the game, so I did have expectations that after the patch there would be improved balance. Optimism, not self entitlement. Like I said, balance. If Pit was the most broken character in the game I’d want him to be nerfed for the sake of balance. I have to admit, I’m a bit obsessed with balance. How you can get so many variables and have them average out in the end. I was optimistic and had high hopes that the patch would drastically improve balance, but it didn’t do quite that. And so, I must be optimistic again. I will focus on the strengths of what I have rather than the weaknesses.

You may wonder why I mentioned optimism so frequently. It’s a useful trait that allows you to pick yourself up from a fall, to bring yourself up from a tragedy or disappointment. Now you seem to be trying to chide me for that trait. “The patch sucks” was my reaction 30 seconds after reading the patch. But now I’m ready to move in a different direction, eager to improve further with my main regardless of patches. As for you, you seem particularly eager to rebuke people.

Well okay. Yeah I have a tendency to get too much into whatever it is I'm discussing and I probably psychologize too much.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

This is why I quit posting for so many years . People getting way too into it With weird arguments And awkward B******* insults . Like what the hell was all that accusing of Childish entitlement and crap ? Like literally this thread is about talking about the Patch There is no need to attack anybody Ever On this website . Back when I broke my neck How surprised I was people had the audacity to give me s*** about it on here When the smash community is supposed to accept All the rejects. I was hoping that 6 years later The pettiness Would be Replaced by some Maturity And acceptance . Y'all need to play nice Because you are Not just computer avatars Talking to computer avatars You are people talking to people . I hope I don't see any more stuff like this in here Otherwise I'm just Gonna dip from this Website again It hurts my heart to see Cyber bullying Especially in today's meta

 

[CoyoteFlavoring]

I just hit 4 million GSP with both Pits. I'm finally feeling like I understand the engine a little better.

This patch was great! Thank you both for dialing it back and limiting the insults.

 

[OnyanRings]

You can make a steamed hams stage, that's a straight upgrade.

Isabelle's fishing rod though...

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Dark pit doesn't even care about shield damage with his arrows though.

When are you ever in a position to really care about damaging shields with arrows? That makes up 0.4% of dark pit's game.

Dark pit's arrows are used just like pits; for edgeguarding.

His arrows can also be used for counter-camp, but sparingly, and that means, you shouldn't even be using arrow that much in neutral anyways.

I treat Down-B like a counter, akin to a swordsman counter, but specifically for projectiles. Still developing my pit though.

Side B is still in development for me.

 

[Kiligar]

Dark pit doesn't even care about shield damage with his arrows though.

When are you ever in a position to really care about damaging shields with arrows? That makes up 0.4% of dark pit's game.

Dark pit's arrows are used just like pits; for edgeguarding.

His arrows can also be used for counter-camp, but sparingly, and that means, you shouldn't even be using arrow that much in neutral anyways.

I treat Down-B like a counter, akin to a swordsman counter, but specifically for projectiles. Still developing my pit though.

Side B is still in development for me.

Could be worse. Can be better. But right now, the Pits are solid characters who will reward you when you invest time into them. They don’t carry you though, which is one of the reasons I like them. There’s always something to improve on with the Pits, right now I’m trying to improve my overall sniping accuracy with , as well as become more consistent with landing Bair, and learning when to use Dair safely. I also look to improve my juggling with Uair, and my overall pressure on opponents trying to land. I love using these characters, no one in the game plays quite like them. Their aerials are very unique, to find aerials somewhat similar you really have to look through the cast. Nair- Simon/Richter, Palutena. Fair- Falco. Bair-?? Uair-?? Dair- Marth? They have the second highest traction in the game, which makes dash related strategies very precise. There’s always room to improve.