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The Original Girl With the Whirl: Dixie Kong Support Thread

Vickand

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I think that DK will get a new character (with Returns and Tropical Freeze being so popular), and the most likely is Dixie, because she has been since DKC2 and also she was the star of DKC3 and she would be a very original female character. She has more chance than K. Rool and I really want her to be in smash
 

SethTheMage

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I think that DK will get a new character (with Returns and Tropical Freeze being so popular), and the most likely is Dixie, because she has been since DKC2 and also she was the star of DKC3 and she would be a very original female character. She has more chance than K. Rool and I really want her to be in smash
I'm of the opinion that K. Rool is more likely, but I think that we could wind up getting both. That being said, I definitely want Dixie more than K. Rool. Regardless, welcome to the Dixie thread! We could always use more optimism and positivity in here.
 

praline

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I wouldn't be surprised if Dixie and K. Rool were both added.

But honestly Dixie definitely is the more likely of the 2.
 

Forcerounds

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Somehow I feel like Dixie Kong, being playable in three DKC games, still has a good shot of being playable. Even with K. Rool competing for a spot, I feel like the roster will be big enough to give the DK series four reps.
 

SethTheMage

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One thing that I would like to bring up concerning whether or not Tropical Freeze has any impact on roster decisions:

Dixie was announced to be playable in TF at E3, which was 4 months before X and Y came out. If Greninja, a character who has only been officially out for 6 months, was able to make it into the roster, does that mean that Dixie's playability in TF could influence her position after all? I keep hearing that TF is too recent to effect Smash, but we've known about Dixie's playability in TF for longer than we've known Greninja existed. Also, If Sakurai knew about Greninja during X and Y's development, who's to say that he didn't also know about Dixie being in TF?
 
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D

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She's one of the most wanted characters for SSB4 now, it seems like a toss up between her and K.Rool and with her recent relevancy she has the bigger chance. Also the tiki's are enemies to so I don't think it means much for K.Rool, in fact I think it makes him less likely, I mean I doubt he'd beat up his own guys in smash run
I don't see how Tiki's appearing in Smash Run makes him less likely to show up. The Kremlings appearance in Smash Run shows that Sakurai has not forgotten about K. Rool and the Kremlings; if anything, the fact that Kremlings and Tiki's are showing up indicates that Sakurai could see them co-exist and not at the expense of one other. But this is an argument for another thread.
One thing that I would like to bring up concerning whether or not Tropical Freeze has any impact on roster decisions. Dixie was announced to be playable in TF at E3, which was 4 months before X and Y came out. If Greninja, a character who has only been officially out for 6 months, was able to make it into the roster, does that mean that Dixie's playability in TF could influence her position after all? I keep hearing that TF is too recent to effect Smash, but we've known about Dixie's playability in TF for longer than we've known Greninja existed. Also, If Sakurai knew about Greninja during X and Y's development, who's to say that he didn't also know about Dixie being in TF?
While I don't believe that Tropical Freeze decrease K. Rool's chances, it does help Dixie's odds; not because of recency, but because it restores Dixie's prominence to the series. She is probably the most important Nintendo female that has yet to make playable status at this point. However, I don't think she would be added into Smash for advertisement purposes (I'd argue that there was more to Gekkouga's inclusion than advertisement) but because of her prominence towards the Donkey Kong series and for being a popular request.
 

BluePikmin11

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If the Direct means anything, Dark Samus being an AT could reach out the possibility of semi-clones being ATs. Dixie is one of the possible ones. Just wanted to bring it up as a possible con.
 

SethTheMage

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While I don't believe that Tropical Freeze decrease K. Rool's chances, it does help Dixie's odds; not because of recency, but because it restores Dixie's prominence to the series. She is probably the most important Nintendo female that has yet to make playable status at this point. However, I don't think she would be added into Smash for advertisement purposes (I'd argue that there was more to Gekkouga's inclusion than advertisement) but because of her prominence towards the Donkey Kong series and for being a popular request.
I agree that TF increases her odds, but the point I was making is that one of the counter arguments I keep hearing thrown around (mainly in the K. Rool thread) is "because the roster was decided before E3, Tropical Freeze has no bearing on the roster". Since Greninja, a character who is very recent was included in the roster, I think that this argument loses its ground.

If the Direct means anything, Dark Samus being an AT could reach out the possibility of semi-clones being ATs. Dixie is one of the possible ones. Just wanted to bring it up as a possible con.
Oh, goodness. I hope not. I would like to think that since Midna is already an AT with prehensile hair, she kind of took Dixie's gimmick.
 
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BKupa666

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I agree that TF increases her odds, but the point I was making is that one of the counter arguments I keep hearing thrown around (mainly in the K. Rool thread) is "because the roster was decided before E3, Tropical Freeze has no bearing on the roster". Since Greninja, a character who is very recent was included in the roster, I think that this argument loses its ground.
I hope that if you see that argument in my thread, you point it out, because it is clearly flawed. Although, what with so much Returns content to include, the only affect Tropical Freeze may have on the final game is to give Dixie a mild boost.
 

Arcadenik

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Oh, goodness. I hope not. I would like to think that since Midna is already an AT with prehensile hair, she kind of took Dixie's gimmick.
Wait... how would this take away Dixie's gimmick?

Midna is an ASSIST TROPHY who uses prehensile hair... we still do not have a PLAYABLE CHARACTER who uses prehensile hair.
 
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False Sense

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One thing that I would like to bring up concerning whether or not Tropical Freeze has any impact on roster decisions:

Dixie was announced to be playable in TF at E3, which was 4 months before X and Y came out. If Greninja, a character who has only been officially out for 6 months, was able to make it into the roster, does that mean that Dixie's playability in TF could influence her position after all? I keep hearing that TF is too recent to effect Smash, but we've known about Dixie's playability in TF for longer than we've known Greninja existed. Also, If Sakurai knew about Greninja during X and Y's development, who's to say that he didn't also know about Dixie being in TF?
As a counter point to that, I would say that we haven't seen any indication of Tropical Freeze being referenced in Smash so far at all, while we have plenty of references to X and Y. Now, to be fair, that's partially because we haven't seen much Donkey Kong content outside of the two returning characters. However, looking at something like Smash Run, we have Kremlings and Tikis appearing, but no sign of Snowmads (is that what they're called?). It's still hard to say at this point, but from what we've seen, it doesn't seem like Tropical Freeze is being acknowledged.
 

SethTheMage

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Wait... how would this take away Dixie's gimmick?

Midna is an ASSIST TROPHY who uses prehensile hair... we still do not have a PLAYABLE CHARACTER who uses prehensile hair.
BluePikmin was addressing the possibility of Dixie being an AT because Dark Samus was. I was saying that it would be a little redundant to have two ATs with the same gimmick. Don't worry. I am fully aware of her potential as a playable character.

I hope that if you see that argument in my thread, you point it out, because it is clearly flawed. Although, what with so much Returns content to include, the only affect Tropical Freeze may have on the final game is to give Dixie a mild boost.
Fair point. However, even if it is small, at least it's something as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if TF is even referenced at all in this game. Just as long as it affects Dixie's chances.

As a counter point to that, I would say that we haven't seen any indication of Tropical Freeze being referenced in Smash so far at all, while we have plenty of references to X and Y. Now, to be fair, that's partially because we haven't seen much Donkey Kong content outside of the two returning characters. However, looking at something like Smash Run, we have Kremlings and Tikis appearing, but no sign of Snowmads (is that what they're called?). It's still hard to say at this point, but from what we've seen, it doesn't seem like Tropical Freeze is being acknowledged.
True, but even if Tropical Freeze isn't referenced at all, Sakurai had to have known about Dixie's return to being a major playable character in the DK series.
 
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praline

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I'm gonna bet the DK stage for the Wii U will be TF based and the 3DS version being Returns based.
 

SethTheMage

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I'm gonna bet the DK stage for the Wii U will be TF based and the 3DS version being Returns based.
I would love a TF stage on the Wii U (even if it would only be to listen to songs from TF's awesome soundtrack).
 

Arcadenik

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Maybe the Tropical Freeze stage might be based on Lost Mangroves?

I am not sure Sakurai wants to do a frozen version of Kongo Jungle... maybe Sakurai wants the Ice Climbers' stage to be the only ice-themed stage.
 

SethTheMage

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I was thinking of this as a possibility: DK Island styled after Returns, but after a while, Lord Frederik and some Snomads come into the background. Frederik plays his horn, which summons an ice dragon and coats the stage in ice. This way, we could get Returns and TF references in one stage.
 
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andimidna

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Wait... how would this take away Dixie's gimmick?

Midna is an ASSIST TROPHY who uses prehensile hair... we still do not have a PLAYABLE CHARACTER who uses prehensile hair.
He was hoping that would make a Dixie assist redundant and boost her chances as a playable character a bit.
If my most wanted character is going to get deconfirmed, I want her to help the chances of another character in my Top 5 :p

I'm gonna bet the DK stage for the Wii U will be TF based and the 3DS version being Returns based.
That seems like a fairly safe bet.
I don't know why they'd do anything else.
Unless we got both Dixie and K Rool (which I think is likely) then they could have Gangplank Galleon AND a Tropical Freeze stage.

One thing that I would like to bring up concerning whether or not Tropical Freeze has any impact on roster decisions:

Dixie was announced to be playable in TF at E3, which was 4 months before X and Y came out. If Greninja, a character who has only been officially out for 6 months, was able to make it into the roster, does that mean that Dixie's playability in TF could influence her position after all? I keep hearing that TF is too recent to effect Smash, but we've known about Dixie's playability in TF for longer than we've known Greninja existed. Also, If Sakurai knew about Greninja during X and Y's development, who's to say that he didn't also know about Dixie being in TF?
Good point.
That completely throws out that argument.

Maybe the Tropical Freeze stage might be based on Lost Mangroves?

I am not sure Sakurai wants to do a frozen version of Kongo Jungle... maybe Sakurai wants the Ice Climbers' stage to be the only ice-themed stage.
As long as it's not Rumble Falls 2 I'm all good :laugh:
 

praline

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He was hoping that would make a Dixie assist redundant and boost her chances as a playable character a bit.
If my most wanted character is going to get deconfirmed, I want her to help the chances of another character in my Top 5 :p



That seems like a fairly safe bet.
I don't know why they'd do anything else.
Unless we got both Dixie and K Rool (which I think is likely) then they could have Gangplank Galleon AND a Tropical Freeze stage.



Good point.
That completely throws out that argument.



As long as it's not Rumble Falls 2 I'm all good :laugh:
K. Rool's not happening as much as his fans think he will.
 

andimidna

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K. Rool's not happening as much as his fans think he will.
I think he's got a fair shot, but mostly if there are four DK characters.
There's always been series that get 2 newcomers. DK seems the most accepted and likely of getting such treatment.
Dixie may be more likely, but only by a little bit. (IMO)
 

praline

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I think he's got a fair shot, but mostly if there are four DK characters.
There's always been series that get 2 newcomers. DK seems the most accepted and likely of getting such treatment.
Dixie may be more likely, but only by a little bit. (IMO)
If K. Rool had a chance he'd have been in the newer DK games.
 

False Sense

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K. Rool's not happening as much as his fans think he will.
Well, it seems he's considered more likely by general Smashboards speculators, according to RTC.

If K. Rool had a chance he'd have been in the newer DK games.
That's... Really poor logic, actually. That's like saying Ganondorf wouldn't be in Melee because he wasn't in the most recent game, Majora's Mask.
 

Arcadenik

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Well, it seems he's considered more likely by general Smashboards speculators, according to RTC.



That's... Really poor logic, actually. That's like saying Ganondorf wouldn't be in Melee because he wasn't in the most recent game, Majora's Mask.
Hmmm.... Ocarina of Time (1998) and Majora's Mask (2000) were still relatively new by the time Melee came out in 2001.

And actually, Ganondorf originally wasn't going to be in Melee... he only got added because he had a similar body type like Captain Falcon.
 

Sonicguy726

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I don't see how Tiki's appearing in Smash Run makes him less likely to show up. The Kremlings appearance in Smash Run shows that Sakurai has not forgotten about K. Rool and the Kremlings; if anything, the fact that Kremlings and Tiki's are showing up indicates that Sakurai could see them co-exist and not at the expense of one other. But this is an argument for another thread.
I'm just saying that people think that K.Rool's chances have gone up thanks to the kremlings being enimies
Well, it seems he's considered more likely by general Smashboards speculators, according to RTC.



That's... Really poor logic, actually. That's like saying Ganondorf wouldn't be in Melee because he wasn't in the most recent game, Majora's Mask.
But ganondorf is the main, big villain, K. Rool isn't anymore
 

andimidna

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I'm just saying that people think that K.Rool's chances have gone up thanks to the kremlings being enimies

But ganondorf is the main, big villain, K. Rool isn't anymore
I mean, he's still the biggest DK villain.
It's not like the Tikis or Snowmads have outshined the Kremlings.
But it's possible Retro will favor their villains and return them over the Kremlings, or continue to make new ones.
It's not like Tiki Tong and Lord Fredrik have a chance.
 

Sonicguy726

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I mean, he's still the biggest DK villain.
It's not like the Tikis or Snowmads have outshined the Kremlings.
But it's possible Retro will favor their villains and return them over the Kremlings, or continue to make new ones.
It's not like Tiki Tong and Lord Fredrik have a chance.
I mean he is the biggest but even ganondorf has never been gone for that long
 

andimidna

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Hmmm.... Ocarina of Time (1998) and Majora's Mask (2000) were still relatively new by the time Melee came out in 2001.

And actually, Ganondorf originally wasn't going to be in Melee... he only got added because he had a similar body type like Captain Falcon.

Yea, and now that Ganon returned in A Link Between Worlds, there's really no villain we can compare King K Rool too.
Ridley was in Other M.
Dedede and Meta Knight were in Triple Deluxe.
Ganon was in ALBW and OoT3d
Mewtwo was in X/Y
Medusa and Hades were in Uprising.
Ghirahim was in Skyward Sword.
Wario was in Game & Wario.
I'm running out of villains....

So I guess we can compare him to Wolf?
Well, not really, he's a semi-clone added at the end of Brawl's development who was recent at the time and is arguably not the main villain of his series and has already been in Smash and is known for being in it... so I don't think Wolf returning would help his chances really...
Seems like a complicated case.
I still think we're getting 4 DK characters though.
 
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False Sense

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I mean he is the biggest but even ganondorf has never been gone for that long
His last appearance was Twilight Princess, or Ocarina of Time 3D if you count remakes.

He's been surprisingly absent lately.
 
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Sonicguy726

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His last appearance was Twilight Princess, or Ocarina of Time 3D if you count remakes.

He's been surprisingly absent lately.
But since then we've only had skyward sword which had demise who is basically ganondorf, Dk has had a bunch of games since 64
 
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andimidna

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His last appearance was Twilight Princess, or Ocarina of Time 3D if you count remakes.

He's been surprisingly absent, lately.
Well, the only main title since Twilight Princess was Skyward Sword.
And it's not too surprising he wasn't in the game. From a story perspective.
Skyward Sword was made to be the prequel to the entire series, in a way.
And according to the Zelda timeline, the original Ganondorf was only born after Four Swords. (AKA OoT Ganon)
So, with that story in mind, the main villain couldn't have had the name Ganondorf, the Gerudo wasn't even a race yet. (Fans speculate that Groose and Impa are the characters that started the Gerudo race, eww.)
Ganondorf is supposed to be the reborn hatred of Demise, or something along those lines. So Demise is essentially very closely tied to Ganondorf, but since they have different names, they're mainly considered different villains.
And on handhelds, Ganon returned, but it was a different Ganon than the one that is also Ganondorf, so you could say that wasn't Ganondorf's return, but it can be argued either way. (ALBW)
Phantom Hourglass was pre-Brawl in 2007, so I won't mention that, but Spirit Tracks also had a new villain. Not much to say about that.
Bellum and Malladus 4 Smash!
And that's all 4 new Zelda games after Twilight Princess so far, I believe
With the stories the Zelda series has been getting lately, it wouldn't always make canon sense for Ganondorf to appear. It's complicated.
The thing with DK is that, it's not complicated. :p
They can put whoever they want as the villain. It's not like the Zelda series with it's detailed stories and timeline. (Although the Kong family history is arguably more complicated than the Zelda timeline :laugh:)
 

False Sense

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But since then we've only had skyward sword which had demise who is basically ganondorf, Dk has had a bunch of games since 64
You do realize K. Rool has appeared in plenty of Donkey Kong games after 64, right? He's only missed out on the three (two if you don't count the 3DS remake) most recent games.

With the stories the Zelda series has been getting lately, it wouldn't always make canon sense for Ganondorf to appear. It's complicated.
The thing with DK is that, it's not complicated. :p
They can put whoever they want as the villain. It's not like the Zelda series with it's detailed stories and timeline. (Although the Kong family history is arguably more complicated than the Zelda timeline :laugh:)
You do bring up some good points in regards to story and timeline, so I'll give you that. But I might argue that Ganondorf has a tendency to get randomly shoved into the plots of some Zelda games, whether it makes sense or not. Twilight Princess, for instance, had a perfectly good villain in Zant, who ends up being revealed as a pawn of Ganondorf right near the end of the game. Ganondorf really didn't need to be in that game, to be perfectly honest. I feel like the makers of the games, Zelda and Donkey Kong, just do whatever they want with the villains. Sometimes they want the main one, or sometimes they want something new. They can pretty much bend the plot to accommodate anything they want to do, anyway.

Fans speculate that Groose and Impa are the characters that started the Gerudo race, eww.
Wait, you mean... But that's... Ew...
 

Sonicguy726

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You do realize K. Rool has appeared in plenty of Donkey Kong games after 64, right? He's only missed out on the three (two if you don't count the 3DS remake) most recent games.
Well I meant the main games he hasn't really been seen in them since DK64, unless I'm completely forgetting something
 

False Sense

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Well I meant the main games he hasn't really been seen in them since DK64, unless I'm completely forgetting something
I guess if you only count big console games... But how many of those have there actually been since 64? I think Returns was the, well, return to that sort of thing. But there were plenty of handheld games and spin offs that King K. Rool appeared in. He's still been around, there just hasn't been that many "main" games since 64 until recently.
 

TheMasterDS

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I think that K Rool is more likely in general. I think Dixie is also very likely and DKC is especially worthy of 4 slots especially since Returns did extremely well. Also if it's not K Rool than it has to be Dixie.

Quick thoughts about this, not really happy with any of the proposed movesets. I feel like none of them really make Dixie stand out the way that Rosalina, the proxy fighter, Little Mac, the ground specialist, and WFT, the temporary buff character, stand out. Here's what I think is the core of Dixie and what makes her novel as a Smash Fighter in the same way the other confirmed newcomers are. Dixie is a flier. She's an Air Specialist.

Her normals I picture would be decent on the ground but much better in the air, working with a lot of reach, speed and power in the air due to her air expertise and the length of her ponytail. To complement that I believe her specials should be built around being super useful in the air primarily and/or assisting with doing stuff in the air. Here's my suggestions.

Special-Side: Helicopter Twirl, her core move. Works like a fast sideways Spinning Kong. Catch people in it, bring them with you damaging them along the way! Goes for longer in the air.
Special-Up: Helicopter Flip, her recovery. Works like her twirl in the respect it'll bring enemies she catches up with her but is a lot briefer and going up. Can still do things after it ends with limits.
Special-Down: Stage Dive. She takes out a guitar and comes slamming down with it. Basically like the second half of Kirby's Special Up only with more omph. I imagine if forward air was good for keeping them in the air and getting hits in rather than knocking them away this would be a good way to finish the job.
Special Nuetral: Kiddy Crash. Kiddy appears out of nowhere and hurls himself through the air. When he hits the ground shortly thereafter grounded enemies are popped up into the air and are briefly stunned. Works like Kick's Party Starter.

What do you reckon? Seem likely that would be the direction Sakurai goes?
 
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I think that K Rool is more likely in general. I think Dixie is also very likely and DKC is especially worthy of 4 slots especially since Returns did extremely well. Also if it's not K Rool than it has to be Dixie.

Quick thoughts about this, not really happy with any of the proposed movesets. I feel like none of them really make Dixie stand out the way that Rosalina, the proxy fighter, Little Mac, the ground specialist, and WFT, the temporary buff character, stand out. Here's what I think is the core of Dixie and what makes her novel as a Smash Fighter in the same way the other confirmed newcomers are. Dixie is a flier. She's an Air Specialist.

Her normals I picture would be decent on the ground but much better in the air, working with a lot of reach, speed and power in the air due to her air expertise and the length of her ponytail. To complement that I believe her specials should be built around being super useful in the air primarily and/or assisting with doing stuff in the air. Here's my suggestions.

Special-Side: Helicopter Twirl, her core move. Works like a fast sideways Spinning Kong. Catch people in it, bring them with you damaging them along the way! Goes for longer in the air.
Special-Up: Helicopter Flip, her recovery. Works like her twirl in the respect it'll bring enemies she catches up with her but is a lot briefer and going up. Can still do things after it ends with limits.
Special-Down: Stage Dive. She takes out a guitar and comes slamming down with it. Basically like the second half of Kirby's Special Up only with more omph. I imagine if forward air was good for keeping them in the air and getting hits in rather than knocking them away this would be a good way to finish the job.
Special Nuetral: Kiddy Crash. Kiddy appears out of nowhere and hurls himself through the air. When he hits the ground shortly thereafter grounded enemies are popped up into the air and are briefly stunned. Works like Kick's Party Starter.

What do you reckon? Seem likely that would be the direction Sakurai goes?
I definitely agree that Sakurai should go the direction of making her an aerial ("HAIRial"? lol I should slap myself for that.) specialist. Long, disjointed hitboxes with fairly weak attack power on the ground, but in the air, capable of racking up lots of damage and having several kill options (perhaps Up Aerial, Down Aerial, and Back Aerial). I can see her having multiple jumps so that she can maintain her aerial mobility, with her ground game being mostly based on spacing, grabbing, and launching the opponent into the air.

I like your Up Special and Side Special, but personally, I think it's a little weird to have Kiddy just randomly pop out of nowhere for a standard move (though, that might just be my opinion). I would give her a projectile for Neutral B (perhaps the Bubblegum Popgun from Tropical Freeze) for spacing purposes, and make the on-the-ground Side Special have forward momentum and the last hitbox launches the opponent up into the air. Also, I think that the Up Special on the ground should give her a fast vertical climb without putting her into a helpless state (similar to Sonic's Spring). This would make it so that she can chase opponents and combo them in the air (and also as a fake out/surprise getaway).

These are all just my opinion, though. I agree with your main concept.
 
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praline

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Well, it seems he's considered more likely by general Smashboards speculators, according to RTC.



That's... Really poor logic, actually. That's like saying Ganondorf wouldn't be in Melee because he wasn't in the most recent game, Majora's Mask.
Ganondorf is the big bad of Zelda. Nintendo doesn't even use K. Rool anymore.
 

TheMasterDS

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I definitely agree that Sakurai should go the direction of making her an aerial ("HAIRial"? lol I should slap myself for that.) specialist. Long, disjointed hitboxes with fairly weak attack power on the ground, but in the air, capable of racking up lots of damage and having several kill options (perhaps Up Aerial, Down Aerial, and Back Aerial). I can see her having multiple jumps so that she can maintain her aerial mobility, with her ground game being mostly based on spacing, grabbing, and launching the opponent into the air.

I like your Up Special and Side Special, but personally, I think it's a little weird to have Kiddy just randomly pop out of nowhere for a standard move (though, that might just be my opinion). I would give her a projectile for Neutral B (perhaps the Bubblegum Popgun from Tropical Freeze) for spacing purposes, and make the on-the-ground Side Special have forward momentum and the last hitbox launches the opponent up into the air. Also, I think that the Up Special on the ground should give her a fast vertical climb without putting her into a helpless state (similar to Sonic's Spring). This would make it so that she can chase opponents and combo them in the air (and also as a fake out/surprise getaway).

These are all just my opinion, though. I agree with your main concept.
I agree with the Up Special. It was my intent that yeah you'd still be mobile after using it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

And yeah, I guess. Dedede throws Gordos though. Peach produces a Toad. Zelda makes a Phantom appear. Game & Watch has loads of NPCs. Olimar has Pink Pikmin appear out of nowhere. It's not unheard of basically. Though I dunno if you're right. My first thought for Kiddy was more like him acting as a barrel but I favored the thumping aspect of his and Dixie's thing in DKC3. Also it's like Kick from Divekick's Party Starter which is great when you can start the party.
 

oGr33n

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Yeah, don't hate me for this but Dixie has too much of a similar structure to that of diddy. Besides a different moveset, she just doesn't look very unique that way.

If its anyone, it will be KKR.
 
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