Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
It could be due to the fact that Mii Fighters are not allowed in for Glory Mode and thats what Sakurai did most of his balancing based off of.
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Aw damn. That makes a ton of sense. I hope they don't end up banning Mii Brawler because of this (heck even just banning Piston Punch is bad for me, I love that move).It could be due to the fact that Mii Fighters are not allowed in for Glory Mode and thats what Sakurai did most of his balancing based off of.
they won't. The move is fixed knockback and only guarantees a kill on one character.Aw damn. That makes a ton of sense. I hope they don't end up banning Mii Brawler because of this (heck even just banning Piston Punch is bad for me, I love that move).
It's too bad the East Coast already did. They banned it the moment after the tournament ended where I used it. Yeah, you can say that customs are the reason why its banned, but the moment customs are allowed again if ever, I can assure you Piston Punch will be banned. I've already given up on the move and moved onto Helicopter Kick, the move is just as viable if not better, lacking the Insta KO though obviously.they won't. The move is fixed knockback and only guarantees a kill on one character.
are you f*cking kidding me. East Coast, you suck. The same area that refused to ban Meta Knight is now throwing the banhammer on a move because of a hard to pull off trick that barely even matters.It's too bad the East Coast already did. They banned it the moment after the tournament ended where I used it. Yeah, you can say that customs are the reason why its banned, but the moment customs are allowed again if ever, I can assure you Piston Punch will be banned. I've already given up on the move and moved onto Helicopter Kick, the move is just as viable if not better, lacking the Insta KO though obviously.
You literally do the same with Helicopter Kick as you would with Piston Punch, the only difference is that Helicopter deals more damage and kills horizontally, meaning places without platforms are no longer an issue. Kills DDD at like 100% lmfao its still really good.
It seems very hypocritical to have previously allowed for moves such as Shuttle Loop and Mach Tornado, or characters like Meta Knight, and techs like Chain Grabs and other infinites... but to allow for similar ATs like Reverse Blazer, Toon Link D-Smash, the Mario Coin Punch, and potentially other KO attacks (like the mysterious Pit F-Spec KO'ing at 44% I had done to me) is just plain ol' scrubbery (or just plain crazy).It's too bad the East Coast already did.
Progress on getting Mii fighters is getting better. I'll repost what I said on facebook.The good news is Customization: Off does not affect the Mii at all.
So it is still unreasonable to group Mii in with Custom Moves.
Edit: I posted a response to the article that was linked. And I am changing my name to t0mMii to show support to Mii ;^)
After the patch, Diddy Kong has been over saturated and became one of the most unstoppable characters in tournament. Almost MK in Brawl level. This isn't exactly the right place to talk about it though.Diddy Kong problem?
A better ultimatum is: Turn Customization "Off" and let the players play the game that they traveled far and wide to pay to do.What I suggest to change towards the rules.
-Ban All Unlockable custom moves
-Mii Fighters must be Guest Miis
-Ban Piston Punch
This is NOT an unfair advantage the same way it was NOT an unfair advantage that Zelda could change her appearance/height/weight/moveset when selecting Sheik (as well as other characters with similar "advantages"). That is the nature of the game's roster: To have a variety, not to ban any character subjectively judged "advantageous".The argument against this would be "Well, thats not fair if they have their customs and nobody else does!"
As much as we may ultimately agree, I believe your reasoning is flawed.This is my counter argument.
As of right now the reason why Customs are banned is because they're impossible to have on all Wii us at a tournament. So just ban the unlockable ones. Palutena and Mii Fighters have unique customs that are just flat out different moves, and they're there from the start and take no time at all to make on the spot on ANYONE'S Wii U. That is why they should be allowed.
Another flaw I see that could be reasonably attacked is stating there is a Diddy Kong "problem". What this is essentially doing is trying to push an idea through rhetoric rather than reason. Appealing to another disliked character is not a reason to keep your character from being banned. Again, no bans, limits, or fixing is needed unless criteria is met. And ultimately strengthens their presupposition that "problems" people have with characters need "fixing" instead of just playing the game.So with that out of the way, why should they still be banned? You're killing an entire character because the rest of the customs are hard to unlock. The worst part about it is that Mii Brawler could be viable too and fix the Diddy Kong problem.
NoIf you guys still have a problem with the Piston Punch, just ban that. Ban that until its proven to not be broken. Just allow Mii Fighters and Palutena to use the rest of their customs. That would be nice. Thanks
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I think Jigglymaster's side is the same as yours, but since they look so keen on banning custom characters all together, it's better if we find a midterm. Later on, we'll think about the rest.(hope I don't come off to heated over this, but I am getting more and more passionate about this debate as it goes on and decided on fully maining Mii due to this scrubby debacle)
Customization: OffThe problem is is that its impossible to get everyone to have all customs on their wii u's, so the solution to that would be to use your 3ds, but the counter to that is that not everyone owns a 3ds, what do you do then?
I don't see Brawler suffering, I just see haters hatin', nothin new to my veteran eyes.Mii brawler is suffering because all customs are hard to get, so just ban the unlockables only. Banning doesn't always mean they're OP.
I don't think they should be allowed in an event that doesn't allow Customization On. Just because you don't have to farm for them doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble it causes the TO's who don't want to have to make sure all their systems are ready to go for just one character.Also, customs being set to "OFF" would make Palutena's customs unviable, which they should be allowed too, you have them from the start.
I agree, it would have been better if they just had all the customs unlocked from the start and an option to disallow Equipment on it's own in-game.I really wish customs could be allowed in general but the way nintendo screwed everything up with how you unlock them is making it impossible in a comp environment.
Do you have a list of the characters it works on and at what % & distance?As for Piston Punch, it kind of is a 1 hit KO on half of the cast, face it, the stream hates it and if the stream hates it and the pros hate it, its not happening. We have to make a compromise.
A ban on Custom Characters essentially bans everyone EXCEPT the Mii fighters.I think Jigglymaster's side is the same as yours, but since they look so keen on banning custom characters all together, it's better if we find a midterm. Later on, we'll think about the rest.
I'm not really in the market of espousing more/less balance postulation because that would just beg one to question why we need "more" balancing, if the "balancing" is desired or not, or if there is some kind of unknown problems that arise of such balancing. I just play the game how it was designed to be able to be played and leave it at that.This means that some characters are actually more balanced when using custom moves. If you're going to voluntarily diminish the pool of competitively viable characters over it... Then I hope the ban gets lifted when every custom move has been unlocked.
That's exactly what I meant by a "midterm".I really wish customs could be allowed in general but the way nintendo screwed everything up with how you unlock them is making it impossible in a comp environment. As for Piston Punch, it kind of is a 1 hit KO on half of the cast, face it, the stream hates it and if the stream hates it and the pros hate it, its not happening. We have to make a compromise.
Oh wow, a single glitch and suddenly custom moves are the Dark Lord themselves.As I said since day one. Customs cause balance issues and it turns out I am right. I wonder how many more stupid **** we will find
All of my future events will have custom moves banned.
Let's not do that and just learn to avoid the attack.Just ban Miis not customs in general
(If you are going to ban anything)
You said you had contacts with Alex right? Have you contacted him yet concerning these rules for APEX? I think that should be our main goal right now is to get these rules to apply to that specific tournament.Oops, forgot to link the post I made in the Competitive Discussion boards:
Competitive Principles: Mii
Yeah, I feel like we should follow the Customization OFF route. Japan currently uses this ruleset I believe and allows Mii fighters to use their customs this way. Mii Brawler is A tier in their tier list, he wouldn't be otherwise.I used to talk with him about stuff and do the Skype meetings, but my house got some deadly mold in it and I ended up pretty much burning everything I owned and moving so I am just now getting things back like a computer and internet connection as well as trying to find my way back through my networking (lost a lot of my contacts, accounts, and passwords).
My plan right now is to advertise my "Competitive Standard" ruleset and try to get it a lot of attention, then when I get a hold of people like Alex point them to that and they'll see how very functioning, reasonable, and respected it is and can draw whatever information from it they want (if any).
I always think the best way to get things done is to do something so impressive people will demand to pay you richly for your work, so I spent a good deal of time working out the foundations of Competitive Philosophy to build my ruleset and arguments for the Mii :^)
Unfortunately, it seems like I can't do anything (logic-wise) for Palutena or Customization in general except to promote a full-blown Customization:On event and let people just play that and enjoy it for what it is (Equipment included and all). I actually came to like it, but wary of it being widely accepted, so I tend to just stay on the Customization: Off side of the argument (for now).
But, yeah, help promote a FAIR ruleset that is COMPETITIVE SOUND - whether it benefits us individually or not, but right now I believe I engineered the strongest one that also happens to help the Mii users quite a lot.
Actually, I think what really should be done is create a thread that consolidates all rulesets that have been formally proposed and ask the viewers to "like" the one they think is the strongest, competitively speaking.
The genius in this idea is that it is a competition of competitive thinking!
Unfortunately I do not have the ruleset, all I know is that they made a new tier list and Mii Brawler is above Rosalina, Fox, Sonic, Lucario, Ness, ect, sitting in A tier.Somehow it takes Japan to change American standards, and that country seems to follow a similar philosophy to rules I do.
Well, I wanted to promote my Competitive Philosophy guide to help build a strong foundation, but I may have to jump the gun here and make a kind of "marketplace" thread posted in the Competitive Discussion boards and see how it goes.
Essentially I will consolidate all the formally proposed rulesets together in one place and heavily promote the thread so the public is made aware of all rulesets then the strongest ones will emerge and TO's will take notice of them and adopt them (hopefully on a national level like Apex). Maybe by that time I can get in contact with whoever is running Apex this year and point them toward that list.
Do you have a link to the Japanese ruleset you mentioned?
No, there should not (competitively) be a "1111 rule" enforced at any competitive tournament - A ban/limit must meet specific criteria to be enforced competitively, if it is not met then it is a casual tournament competition-seeking players should avoid.If their only rule is that customs have to be off, then yeah, Mii Brawler can be used no problem, even with movesets other than 1111.
Kinda unfair to Palutena mains, though :\ I wish there was a way to just unlock everything for TOs... Nintendo won't do it, but I wish they did...
Hey guys I usually play with the gamecube controller/3ds at my friends house but one day we had extra guests so I had to stick with the nutty wii remote. I can hardly play any character with it so I decided to play random characters and start "trolling" by spamming moves. (Flare blitz, Phantasm etc) But when I got to Mii Brawler I used the Down-throw > Piston punch combo and obliterated everyone because somehow I managed to One-inch punch consistently not missing a single one. Jigglypuff, Peach, and GameNWatch were all banished to the shadow realm. Was I just lucky? New Wiimote strats?
*I noticed that I got it every time my friends DI'ed away from D-throw*