That's because his aerials weren't all that great in Melee. I see him being a solid all around character in Brawl.. He has a good aerial game and his ground game is decent too. He has tornado for approaches and his smashes are powerful. The nair also makes it really hard for someone to combo you. His edge game is really good as well. The only thing I don't like about weegee is his range but you just have to learn to work around it.
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The Official "ZOMG Luigi's Tier Position" Thread
- Thread starter Bane84
- Start date
pastaboy
Smash Champion
this is all true, but correct me if im wrong but luigi can aproach best in the air and thats easy for him to be shield grab, especcialy someone who shield grab camps.
If your approaching with bair you can di away from your opponent after hitting them, so it's really hard to sheild grab Luigi.
This is key with Luigi, do this (DI away) = no shield grab, if not you are basically in they're grasp.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
They made a tier list? Since when? O_o. It's a matter of praticing spacing. Better spacing = less chances of shield grabbing. It's pretty gey for those who have bigger grab ranges like Zard or D3.
Well your not gonna see many Charizards when you play and you shouldn't be using Luigi against DDD anywayz.
MasterToshima
Smash Journeyman
I hope we can make Luigi go up hoping for bottom of high tier u know he deserves it but not too many ppl showing up on turneys in USA I cant because I dont live there
The Grinch
Smash Journeyman
People seem to have a little confusion when it comes to tiers and tier match ups. Not to mention some confusion on Luigi's placement.
Honestly speaking from a competitive aspect, Luigi is low for many reasons: He's got insanely low friction, so he slides all over the place and it's hard to shield grab with him; missile recovery is quite easy to gimp; large short hop and terrible dash attack combined with how floaty he is makes his SHFF'ing/ground game a little punishable; unorthodox spike; etc etc etc (SOME of these give him advantages, IE low friction gives him a sliding usmash and whatnot, but more disadvantages than advantage).
Another thing I believe is that, I have to disagree with what LOTS of Luigi players say in his defense, that he's, "too difficult to use, that's why people skip him." Quite the contrary really, with his high priority, great recovery, fast/strong aerials, and an up B that kills earrrrly (Not to mention notably easier to hit with in Brawl) Luigi is a very user friendly character. Go pop in Melee, Luigi's recovery is hella tough compared to Brawl (Difficult rising 'nado, VERY little to no DI with the up B after you come down), and his up B is a little more precise back than.
Eh, sorry to digress like that. Annnnyways, back on track. No, I don't agree that Luigi can win tournies. Luigi players win tournies. Yeah, yeah, if you want to get technical this goes for every character, but I just want to emphasize this on the Luigi boards, since I believe that the Luigi vs Metaknight match up is a tough one for him specifically (Don't worry, you have great chances against Snake in terms of character match up).
Brawl is NOT tech heavy, regardless if anyone of us would like it to be, but I think most of us have gathered by now. I don't honestly believe that Luigi at the moment has too many advanced techs, so I always have a chuckle to myself when I read/hear about other Luigi players talk about their tricks or whatnot with Luigi.
I'm not saying you don't need to practice him and just run around roflstomping people--but rather, I think it's simply all basics for Luigi once you learn things to do with fireballs, how to set up those up B kills, etc. I'll stop myself here so I don't repeat my other thread in this post.
My best advice I could try to imply in this entire post of mine is that Luigi will NOT win tournies, the Luigi players will. Unless someone finds a USEFUL and STRONG (Read: useful and strong) advanced technique with Luigi, then it allllll relies on the ability of the players mental game over his physical game nowadays.
Luigis will not run amuck slapping MK's and Snakes with super unstoppable combos or glitches, they will out space when the time is right, out prioritize when they know they can, use the RIGHT dodge when they should, and just simply out think the person next to you, that's trying to make you trip over your own brain so to speak.
I've got a great example if I may...I've been going to Reggie's/Rejk's local tournies since his first one waaay back in March. The VERY first local tourny he held, I placed second only losing to a Marth player, Nightside, while (As usual) I used Luigi the whole tourny. The guy's just too good at reading dodges, and punishing you for everything you do.
So, along rolls around Reggie's second local tourny, and voila. I beat him out this time around, 2-0 in our set. And I'll tell you something---I didn't learn a **** thing in terms of new techs, new combos, or some abused combination of moves. No, I won that fight that night, because I didn't trip over my own game. I spaced ten times better than the last set, I READ multiple dodges and up B'd him out of them, I did completely different set ups for every up B I attempted to keep it fresh, and I threw out nairs when I was caught in that forward B sword trap this time around because I knew it could get it out to stop it. I played MY game, to the extent of out thinking the thinker.
I think I played, maybe 3 different people between the first and second tourny? It's not tech savvy, training hard to time those "buttons presses," it's bending your brain to watch yourself, and more importantly watch your opponent.
Do, not, fight, him. Make him fight himself.
That's how Luigi players will win tournies.
~The Greench
Honestly speaking from a competitive aspect, Luigi is low for many reasons: He's got insanely low friction, so he slides all over the place and it's hard to shield grab with him; missile recovery is quite easy to gimp; large short hop and terrible dash attack combined with how floaty he is makes his SHFF'ing/ground game a little punishable; unorthodox spike; etc etc etc (SOME of these give him advantages, IE low friction gives him a sliding usmash and whatnot, but more disadvantages than advantage).
Another thing I believe is that, I have to disagree with what LOTS of Luigi players say in his defense, that he's, "too difficult to use, that's why people skip him." Quite the contrary really, with his high priority, great recovery, fast/strong aerials, and an up B that kills earrrrly (Not to mention notably easier to hit with in Brawl) Luigi is a very user friendly character. Go pop in Melee, Luigi's recovery is hella tough compared to Brawl (Difficult rising 'nado, VERY little to no DI with the up B after you come down), and his up B is a little more precise back than.
Eh, sorry to digress like that. Annnnyways, back on track. No, I don't agree that Luigi can win tournies. Luigi players win tournies. Yeah, yeah, if you want to get technical this goes for every character, but I just want to emphasize this on the Luigi boards, since I believe that the Luigi vs Metaknight match up is a tough one for him specifically (Don't worry, you have great chances against Snake in terms of character match up).
Brawl is NOT tech heavy, regardless if anyone of us would like it to be, but I think most of us have gathered by now. I don't honestly believe that Luigi at the moment has too many advanced techs, so I always have a chuckle to myself when I read/hear about other Luigi players talk about their tricks or whatnot with Luigi.
I'm not saying you don't need to practice him and just run around roflstomping people--but rather, I think it's simply all basics for Luigi once you learn things to do with fireballs, how to set up those up B kills, etc. I'll stop myself here so I don't repeat my other thread in this post.
My best advice I could try to imply in this entire post of mine is that Luigi will NOT win tournies, the Luigi players will. Unless someone finds a USEFUL and STRONG (Read: useful and strong) advanced technique with Luigi, then it allllll relies on the ability of the players mental game over his physical game nowadays.
Luigis will not run amuck slapping MK's and Snakes with super unstoppable combos or glitches, they will out space when the time is right, out prioritize when they know they can, use the RIGHT dodge when they should, and just simply out think the person next to you, that's trying to make you trip over your own brain so to speak.
I've got a great example if I may...I've been going to Reggie's/Rejk's local tournies since his first one waaay back in March. The VERY first local tourny he held, I placed second only losing to a Marth player, Nightside, while (As usual) I used Luigi the whole tourny. The guy's just too good at reading dodges, and punishing you for everything you do.
So, along rolls around Reggie's second local tourny, and voila. I beat him out this time around, 2-0 in our set. And I'll tell you something---I didn't learn a **** thing in terms of new techs, new combos, or some abused combination of moves. No, I won that fight that night, because I didn't trip over my own game. I spaced ten times better than the last set, I READ multiple dodges and up B'd him out of them, I did completely different set ups for every up B I attempted to keep it fresh, and I threw out nairs when I was caught in that forward B sword trap this time around because I knew it could get it out to stop it. I played MY game, to the extent of out thinking the thinker.
I think I played, maybe 3 different people between the first and second tourny? It's not tech savvy, training hard to time those "buttons presses," it's bending your brain to watch yourself, and more importantly watch your opponent.
Do, not, fight, him. Make him fight himself.
That's how Luigi players will win tournies.
~The Greench
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I agree with Grinch all the way. Luigi still does very well even without the usage of ATs. Hell squirtle has alot of ATs but it doesnt prove extremely useful. The only AT that's like best is like Yoshi's DR or something. Luigi players have to be the ones winning NOT LOSING in tourneys.
In all honesty, his low traction doesn't prove a crazy threat imo. If you know how to powershield, your pretty krystal from there. If luigi placed high in tourneys, Luigi could possibly be on the top of middle tier or bottom of high tier.
If your a good player in general who knows how to overcome mistakes, DI well, space well, ulitize a character's moveset at max, you'll win tourneys with luigi like cakewalk
In all honesty, his low traction doesn't prove a crazy threat imo. If you know how to powershield, your pretty krystal from there. If luigi placed high in tourneys, Luigi could possibly be on the top of middle tier or bottom of high tier.
If your a good player in general who knows how to overcome mistakes, DI well, space well, ulitize a character's moveset at max, you'll win tourneys with luigi like cakewalk
Luigi player
Smash Master
I think Luigi should be low tier... he sucks.
ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
^^^^ Otherwise known as Sucky Player?
zippo074
Smash Cadet
Weegee should be atleast bottom of high tier, and mario maybe middle of mid tier... Why is ness so low??!
Bowser has a grab release on every character in the game. It might seem like he's a big, slow, blundering character but he's not. All he has to do is use his jabs, fire, fortress, and when you get to higher percentages he can land a powerful attack out of his grab release.
Not saying he should be higher than Luigi, just wanted to point that out
boss8
Smash Hero
o well for now my luigi will always be high tier if any of you believe tiers are for queers u wouldnt mind making this statement true.....because i've seen the impossiable possiable.......
M@v
Subarashii!
One of the most recent tourneys I went to, a Mario/Luigi player took 2nd.
Darth JoBak
Smash Apprentice
c'mon luigis! there is so much potential
luigi brawl = melee jiggly?????
luigi brawl = melee jiggly?????
MasterToshima
Smash Journeyman
Haha agreed...you should see vids of this dude Cazcom and Cazcombo than see if Ness is low tier I think he should be higher.... Why is ness so low??!
CR4SH
Smash Lord
The reason ness is low tier is the exact same reason luigi is so much lower than he ought to be. Tiers have a weird amount of emphasis on specific bad matchups. Luigi has a GODAWFUL matchup against MK, and a terrible one against D3, two of the top tier characters. This plummets him in the list. I personally think that's ridiculous, considering one or two terrible matchups are basically irrelevant in a game where you can...switch character!?
Luigi is an excellent character, that needs a secondary to compete. Ness is the same way (grab infinites ftw). Luigi is just as capable at destroying 30 members of the cast as mk/snake/gw etc. He just has a couple bad matchups, and for some reason that makes sbr think he's terribad. Weird.
As for his weaknesses, yes he has a number of them. But look at his strengths, there's a very long list. (like, seriously 10 completely lagless, on the front end at least, ko options. Tell me another character that can boast that.)
Luigi is an excellent character, that needs a secondary to compete. Ness is the same way (grab infinites ftw). Luigi is just as capable at destroying 30 members of the cast as mk/snake/gw etc. He just has a couple bad matchups, and for some reason that makes sbr think he's terribad. Weird.
As for his weaknesses, yes he has a number of them. But look at his strengths, there's a very long list. (like, seriously 10 completely lagless, on the front end at least, ko options. Tell me another character that can boast that.)
I don't know what your talking about. *runs away*Marsulas said:
/sarcasm
Awesome post Grinch, I really agree, but in my case I'm just not really glad with my Luigi in terms of tournament play.
In a sense I believe I limit myself and that's what I lack as a player when using Luigi. Therefore, I, as you say, try to fight my opponent instead of my opponent fighting him/her-self.
Either way, every tournament I go to I use Luigi in friendly's against those people who I fight when using other characters and I see how my Luigi has improved or what I need to improve and when the time comes I know I'll be sure to use Luigi in tournaments all out not just in some matches.
katanagash
Smash Apprentice
There are no Luigi mains in my area except for me. Right now the best I've done at our tournaments is top 16. =(