• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

The Official MGS Discussion Thread

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
We all play Snake. I assume from this, that we all love the Metal Gear Solid series. I've played the games countless times, accomplished most everything possible, and understand it's compelling and confusing storyline very well.

I propose this thread to be a place to discuss the storyline. It's brilliance, creativity, and to get any questions you may have answered. I assure you I can answer them. ;)

To get started, how about a topic that is controversial in the Metal Gear community: Raiden.

No one likes Raiden. He's small, skinny and feminine. But that doesn't mean he's not important to the storyline...Thoughts?
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Really? There are no Metal Gear fans in here that want to discuss the Metal Gear games?

Darn, I coulda sworn we had people around here that liked Metal Gear... ;)
 

NeroeXIII

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
84
Location
Canada
I do. It's just been so long since i've played any of them. MgS 2 was the best, me and my cousin when we were like 8-9, would play that game. Haha, we were so young.

I think raiden was a really interesting character, I liked him. He brought atwist into the game. I can't wait to see that fight with Vamp and Raiden in MGS4..(I think its raiden ). Anyway i never fully understood the plotline.. It was so Darn confusing. :S. Me and my cousin though (We were like mGS buddies :p) would always try to make predictions though. I miss the good old days -sigh-
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
Raiden is slim, and as tall as Snake. Though I do have to admit the hair is slightly ridiculous. The only thing I really don't like about the guy, though, was him being whipped by his girlfriend. I mean, come on. You're on a top secret mission to save the president, and your girlfriend nags about you forgetting what happened that specific day. What the Hell, woman?! I'm trying to do stuff and all you do is ***** about the date! I don't give a ****, I'm on a ****ing mission for ****s sake!

Yeah. Also, the Snakes tend to have a fetish for cardboard boxes.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Raiden is much skinnier than Snake. lol

Raiden is just...Raiden. I agree with Kojima's decision to make Raiden the main protagonist. Otherwise, the story wouldn't be pushed to it's fullest limits. (if you want me to explain just ask)

Also, if anyone has any questions about the confusing storyline, feel free to ask. I love explaining Metal Gear. :)
 

NeroeXIII

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
84
Location
Canada
If I recall correctly, MGS 3, happend before MGS 2. in MGS 3, (I think. My god my memory is rusty) Snake loses an eye. How come he still has 2 eyes in MGS 2?
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
MGS3 took place during 1964. The protagonist of that game was Big Boss, AKA Naked Snake. The game retcons how he lost his right eye. Originally, he lost it during the 80's in some war. Now, he lost it because of the muzzle flash from Ocelot's gun that ruptured his cornea. The Snake featured in the other Metal Gears is his clone, Solid Snake.

MGS1, 2, and 4 take place in the present/extremely near future, and feature Solid Snake as the protagonist in some form. Snake, being a clone of Big Boss, AKA Naked Snake, looks near exactly like Big Boss, with some subtle differences (eye color, height, build, facial structure, etc). The Snake featured in SSBB is actually a combination of both Naked Snake and Solid Snake. Basically, it's Naked Snake's body with Solid Snake's sneaking suit from MGS2.

Also, a little tidbit, Snake's MGS2 suit is the same one from MGS. He just removed the vest because he didn't need it, and as he says early in the game, it's hard for him to move around in.
 

Sir_Psycho

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
79
The MGS games are brilliant. In order my favorites are MGS1 then Snake Eater then MGS2. The story from MGS1 was so brilliant, and Gray Fox is one of the most ridiculously cool characters in all of videogames. That scene where Fox gives his final monologue is one of the saddest scenes I have ever witnessed.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Bman-Good ****, you know your stuff. :)

Sit Psycho- Funny you should mention Fox's final monologue...It's one of the most important sentences in the game. When Gray Fox says: "Even though the only thing I was good at was fighting...at least I die knowing that I fought for what I believed in" (that's pretty accurate, maybe a word or two off) Solid Snake, after taking down Big Boss, (MGS2) retreats to Alaska to live in peace mainly because, he fought for the wrong things. He followed the orders given to him by Foxhound, and as a result, ended up killing his best friend, Gray Fox, and a legend, Big Boss. He returned from Zanzibar a broken man. He fought, but only following orders, which were the wrong reasons.

When Snake hears Fox's last speech, it really convinces him to fight for the right reasons, and from there he teams with Otacon and vows to fight only to destroy Metal Gears, or any duplicate of them. This is what leads him to his role in MGS 2, and ALSO ties in to why Raiden is a better protagonist for MGS2 than Solid Snake would be: Solid Snake's goals, his determined roles have already been revealed. Sure he's badass, but at the same time there's not much more room for character development. He found his place in the world after hearing Fox's last speech. I could go on about Raiden, but I'll save that for later.
 

The Enemy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
79
I read an article with Kojima explaining Raiden. He said he thought of putting a....."emo feminine" hero on the game after talking to a bunch of little schoolgirls. They all said that Snake, and old people in general are icky. They said the main hero should be a young, cute guy. It hurt Kojima's feelings so bad that there were actually people that didn't like his games that he tried to make them happy by including Raiden. I personally hate the character, but that's good of Kojima to include a character for everyone. He's not the definition of cool in other countries like he is in Japan, so once again Kojima is attempting to make everyone happy, by turning him into a badass to suit the Western crowds, and Europe.
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
1) Fox's final speech ended with "Fighting was the only thing... the ONLY thing I was good at. But, at least I fought for what I believed in."

2) It wasn't exactly a bunch of schoolgirls, but young women/girls said that they didn't want to play a game where the main character was an old, ugly-looking guy. Hence, Raiden was designed with attractiveness in mind, and ended up looking like a bishonen character (typical effeminate, yet handsome male).

Another little tidbit. During the early stages of character designing and development, Shinkawa, the lead artist, designed Raiden as a weird fellow, who moved around on the ground on all fours, similar to crawling like Spiderman, and would also lick up bird poop from the ground.

Personally, I think that would have been one of the greatest ideas in the history of EVER, but licking bird poop off the ground isn't exactly attractive, so that was dropped rather early.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
I heard about the preliminary concept art for Raiden...I didn't like the thought very much. I liked how Raiden turned out.

Also, looks like MGS4 isn't going to be for everyone lol. Main character=Old Snake. I personally think he looks bad ***, but young women/girls won't. ;)
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
LOL math teacher, priceless. Did you hear, MGS4 is too big for 2 blu ray discs, so they have to either remove some features (most likely extra languages, subtitles etc) or make it on 2 discs? That's CRAZY! Blu ray is easily the biggest digital format...Man, this game is gonna be so nice.
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
Meh. The only reason it's taking up so much space is because of the uncompressed audio. Otherwise, it wouldn't be that bad.

Also, the reason that we don't have a Japanese voice-over option is because the character's lips have been re-synced for the English audio. No longer are the VA's forced to match their speech to the Japanese dialog. Awesome thing, the Codec synth thing has been synced to the English audio, too. Fun times, fun times...
 

Crom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
472
Location
Orlando, FL
Very interesting. Can you link me to that interview by any chance?
There was a DVD extra that came with MGS3 Subsistence if you pre-ordered it which had that interview. It goes through the whole MGS timeline with interviews with Kojima.

But yeah, they were trying to expand MGS's audience and a bunch of girls in a focus group said they didn't like old men, etc, so that's why they included Raiden and his girlfriend constantly nagging him. If you notice, their names are Jack and Rose, same names from Titanic. So yeah, I consider that a bit of a mistake, but MGS2 was still good. I'm glad he's not listening to focus groups any more and doing his own thing, Old Snake looks seriously badass, and it looks like Raiden has been redeemed. I like Raidens new look, his lower jaw is missing and robotic now, shows he's finally been through some real combat experience (and looks almost like a new Grey Fox).

Since you claim to be the MGS master, can you elaborate on the events of Metal Gear 1 and 2?
I know the general story, but since I haven't played them I don't know if there's anything more to it.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Well, there's a lot to MGS 1 and 2. I'll try and go through a few different...points of views? Hmm...I'll try to explain it as organized as possible.

MGS1- Liquid Snake, a clone of Big Boss, takes a special forces army, (genome army) and takes over shadow moses island, in alaska. It's soon realized that Shadow Moses is where Metal Gear is being kept, and that's Liquid's main form of bargaining. By taking control of Metal Gear, Liquid can blackmail the US...If other countries knew that US had a Metal Gear, the world's balance of power would be extremely thrown off, and also other countries would start trying to replicate their own metal gears. Liquid Snake's demands are pretty basic actually. He just wants a lot of money, and the remains of big boss. His real goal, is to recreate Outer Heaven, big boss's country for mercenary soldiers. Liquid believes that soldiers are becoming insignificant to the government, and he wants a place for soldiers, people like him, to fight. He believes that if the us wasn't going to give soldiers a purpose to live their lives, he was going to wage war himself, and give them a reason to live their lives. With metal gear rex, a large amount of money, and big boss' remains (he could create more genome soldiers using big boss' genes) he could recreate outer heaven and give soldiers a place to fight.

Solid Snake, who defeated Big Boss years and years ago, is called out of retirement to stop Liquid Snake, and also rescue hostages at shadow moses. He soon discovered that Shadow Moses was harboring another Metal Gear, and it then became his mission to destroy it. In the process, he once again comes in contact with gray fox, his companion and best friend who he believed to be dead. Grey fox fights snake in order to "feel alive" again. At the end of the game, snake destroys metal gear, goes off with otacon and gray fox's last words have a huge impact on him. Snake then decides to fight for what he believes in, and that's what leads him to mgs 2...

MGS 2: You play as Raiden, a green soldier with no real experience. Raiden's goal is to infiltrate the big shell, and eliminate dead cell and solidus snake, and save the president and hostages. he blindly follows his orders.

Solidus Snake is the last clone of big boss, and he is the one that has taken over the big shell. his goal is to overthrow the patriots, who he works for, but is planning to rebel against. (i'll get to the patriots later) solidus' goal is to capture arsenal gear, use it to launch a strike over NYC, and devestate a huge part of the patriots' control: the economy. then he would expose the patriots to the world, and america would be free again from the control of the patriots. what he didnt count on, however, was ocelot turning him in to the patriots.

Ocelot works for he patriots, and lets them in on solidus' plan. the patriots then use this to manipulate solidus, and set up the big shell events. turns out, everythingg that happens in MGS2, the entire big shell event, is a simulation set up by the patriots, in order to make raiden into the perfect killing machine, aka solid snake. it's a replica of shadow moses, what solid snake had to go through. it's called the S3 plan. a solid snake simulation. by combining real world experience, vr training to get rid of weak emotions, and simulating what solid snake had gone through, the patriots would have the perfect soldier. lol only problem was, the real solid snake showed up at the big shell, which prevented it all from happening. the patriots knew they had to wait till solid snake was dead so he couldnt interfere, because there could never be 2 solid snakes. snake faked his death, which is why the patriots went ahead with this.

The patriots are the driving force behind the Metal Gear Solid series. everything that happens comes back to the patriots. people work for the patriots, people try to rebel, but in the end the patriots control everything. they began as the philosophers (the most wealthy and powerful people from china, russia and america), but then they all died, and the remaining are called the patriots...becasue the original "wiseman's commitee" are all dead, the player really doesnt know what the patriots are. there are many theories, but theres not one solid theory. anyways, rule of thumb to always keep in mind while playing metal gear: Ocelot always works for the patriots, no matter what you think. this will make things much simpler.

lastly, why i'm so excited for MGS4...Snake is setting out to find the patriots, and destroy them. I am so intrigued by the patriots, this is really going to be the best finale to any game ever...
 

Rangles

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
16
Location
So Cal
The best part of metal gear solid is easily David Hayter.

No, not the thrilling story, the awesome gameplay or the incredible characters.

It's David Hayter's perfect voice acting.
 

Crom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
472
Location
Orlando, FL
That was good, but I meant Metal Gear 1 and 2 for NES or whatever, the originals, not the MGS1 and 2. I'm already very familiar with all 3 MGS's.
 

Blackadder

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
3,164
Location
Purple
Wait, wait wait.




I like Raiden. Sure, he lacks common sense at times, he's a bit whimpy with emotional things, and you don't know what gender he/she is BUT. And this is the but.

He's still a champ. He just looks bad compared to Snake.

I'd say TONS more, but I'm tired. =<
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
Meh. Raiden had ridiculous amounts of battlefield experience, he just repressed them (he was a child soldier in Liberia). Solidus was his foster-dad (killed his real parents). The rest isn't really relevant. Also, S3 really stood for "Selection for Societal Sanity." It was a test the Patriots were conducting to see how they would be able to manipulate people and the information they came into contact with in order to keep things relatively stable in the country.

Oh, and the MSX games (not NES, pretend those never happened):

Metal Gear: Big Boss sends Solid Snake, new FOXHOUND dude, to rescue a scientist and fellow comrade Grey Fox. Turns out that there's some sort of giant mecha housed in the facility Snake infiltrated, and that Big Boss was the one behind it. Snake destroys Metal Gear and Big Boss detonates the facility, which just so happened to be Outer Heaven. Typical good guy ending.

Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake: Snake's dragged out of retirement by Roy Campbell, colonel and new leader of FOXHOUND. Important scientist missing again, along with Grey Fox, and some more stuff. To make things short (MG2 has a surprising amount of story), scientist dude from MG1's back, and he's a bad guy. Scientist dude from this game is killed. Grey Fox is now working alongside Big Boss, who is still alive, and is behind everything (again). Snake blows up Metal Gear, which Fox was piloting. Then he kills Fox by way of hand-to-hand combat in a minefield. Big Boss shows up, Snake burns him to death with a can of aerosol and a lighter, and then goes to get drunk in the Alaskan wilderness.

6 Years Later... MGS1.
 

Eternal Yoshi

I've covered ban wars, you know
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
5,450
Location
Playing different games
NNID
EternalYoshi
3DS FC
3394-4459-7089
Wait, wait wait.




I like Raiden. Sure, he lacks common sense at times, he's a bit whimpy with emotional things, and you don't know what gender he/she is BUT. And this is the but.

He's still a champ. He just looks bad compared to Snake.

I'd say TONS more, but I'm tired. =<
That's why many people in the U.S. didn't like him. He doesn't always listen to Roy the first time and doesn't know when to be quiet.

I have a question to ask. What caused Big Boss to lose it and create Outer Heaven? I know that
he was cloned when he was in a coma and without his consesnt
, but does that have anything to do with it?

P.S. That "Scientist dude" in MG1 and MG2 was Sokolov in disguise.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Well Big Boss didn't "lose it."

He was disgusted by the fact that his mentor, The Boss, sacrificed her life, honor and pride for her country, America, and America dishonored her by telling the public she was a traitor.

This is when Big Boss' loyalty to America ended. He wanted to create a place where soldiers could fight for what they believed in, without having to pledge allegiance to a country that would betray them. That's why he created Outer Heaven.
 

Sir_Psycho

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
79
What makes MGS great besides the storyline is the boss fights. I remember how much fun I had fighting Vulcan Raven(2nd time) and Sniper Wolf(both times) in the first MGS. I didn't feel like the bosses in MGS2 were nearly as well done as the ones in MGS (Vamp and Fatman were pretty fun). The boss fights in MGS3 were really good--The End and The Fury were my favorites. I don't know what it is about the Sniper battles/Maze battles(The Fury, Raven) but those fights always make me so tense and it makes the whole fight that much more fun.
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
E. Yoshi, Sokolov's dead by the time MG and MG2 take place. Some other dude, it's referenced in Snatchers or Policenauts, I can't remember.

And yeah, Jesiah. He was originally disgruntled to the point of insanity before the retcon. Now, he's just completely bitter at the American government for all the stunts they did that involved the people he loved. And none of his ideas are even his anymore.

BTW, I don't know if the Snakes were cloned when Big Boss was in a coma anymore, because technically, they'd be born 2 years after MPO. I guess the original way still stand: Big Boss goes into a coma during battle, the American government clones him to create the 3 Snakes.
 

bman in 2288

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
382
No. Snake killed him. And Snake was his clone. Therefore, they couldn't have cloned Big Boss's remains. He wouldn't have been dead by then.

You must be confusing it with the ransom demands Liquid made. He wanted the remains of Big Boss in order to cure the Genome Soldier's "disease." In other words, they were dying (though they weren't aware of it) due to the gene therapy they underwent with Big Boss's genes. So, in order to reverse the problem, they needed his genetics in order to find a way to stabilize them.

Didn't really matter, though. All the Genome soldiers Snake encountered died because of FOXDIE. Johnny survived because he wasn't a Genome Soldier, thus he wasn't in the virus's programming.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
So, the games don't give us enough information to tell us what exactly the patriots are. Hopefully we'll find out in MGS 4, but yeah, I'm interested to hear what everyone's interpretation of the patriots are.
 

CaptainPlatypus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Indiana
MGS is the win. This might seem like a nubb question, but is Twin Snakes different from all the other games... or is it just one of the PS2 games made for GC?
 

Sir_Psycho

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
79
MGS is the win. This might seem like a nubb question, but is Twin Snakes different from all the other games... or is it just one of the PS2 games made for GC?
Twin Snakes follows the story of MGS1 but with the features and new gameplay moves from MGS2(i.e. first-person shooting, rail hanging, etc.). The game also has improved graphics seeing as it's an upgrade from PSX to Gamecube. The game also had new cutscenes developed and a few extra storyline tweaks.
 
Top Bottom