The Official Diddy Kong Stage Match-up Discussion Thread (KIRBY)

[Player-1]

Credit goes to PhatyChong for originally coming up with this thread.

Alright, so this is is how it's going to work. Since we've already had discussions on some of the first characters on the tier list, we'll be using that as reference to those characters for now until we get done with all 37, then loop it going down the list of the newest tier list. The current tier list is v3.0 and looks like this:

Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Kirby

Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong

Peach
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik

Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
​

This is a list of the SBR's recommended stages:

SBR Recommended Rule List v2.0: Brawl
Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Delfino (moved from S/C)
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Counter/Banned
Distant Planet (moved from C)
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion (moved from C)
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) (moved from C)
Norfair (moved from C)

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria (moved from C)
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone (moved from C)
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit (moved from C/B)
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett (moved from C/B)
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld (moved from C/B)
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware


USE THIS THREAD FOR EVERYONE FROM METAKNIGHT THROUGH PIKACHU UNTIL WE LOOP THROUGH THE LIST:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225477&highlight=stages

The current discussion is Ice Climbers.


The format you should try to put your opinions in is something like this:

CPs:
Stage 1

Reason why to CP:

(do this for as many CPs that you have in mind)

Bans:
Stage 1

Reason to Ban:

(Do this for as many Bans that you have in mind)

*Note* I will be playing with the format a bit later tonight, but for now let the discussion begin.







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-Neutrals:1. FD 2. YI/SV 3.BF 4. Lylat, PS1, Rainbow Cruise, Castle Siege

Reasoning: Many stages that are good for Diddy are also good for Diddy, and same goes for bans, therefore it's probably best to choose a stage that you feel very comfortable on and that you know your opponent isn't.

FD: A flat stage, good for being aggressive and you can keep your momentum easier on it.
SV: Same reasons as FD
YI: The slopes give you a very slight chance to mess up the CG, you can also DI the CG>Spike and tech it if they go for it, but a lot of times they'll just infinite CG if they can
BF: A good comfortable neutral, you may get nana desynched by a platform a couple times.
Lylat: Same reasons as BF, plus a possible chance the slopes mess it up

PS1: There's a possible chance that the stage transformation process messes up the grabs, some transformations limit ice block camping, you may be able to DI the Usmash at the end of the CG into a wall and tech it or something.

Rainbow Cruise: Easily desynched, can also mess up their recovery, and some parts limit ice blocks. Just be careful on the ship which can be argued in their advantage.

Castle Siege:
The first transformation limits ice block camping if you get the upper ground, and you can DI the CG> spike into the wall and tech if they choose to do so, the slope also gives you a bigger chance in them messing up the CG.

The second transformation limits ice block camping, and gives you higher ceilings so you can live long against a Usmash

Third transformation is like FD but tilts which both work in your advantage for the most part

The in between transformations give you a chance of desynching them then if it transforms into the 2nd or 3rd one then they can appear offstage giving you a good chance for a gimp

Bans:

Norfair: Less of a chance to gimp them, and they can juggle you with Uairs. Not a great stage for ICs though

The neutral you feel least comfortable on and that you may feel the ICs feel most comfortable on.


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[Player-1]

reserved post.

 

[Player-1]

This will do for a few hours, I'll be updating with a better format later, we're currently discussing Ice Climbers.

 

[nezzedaoriginal]

Counterpicks:
Rainbow Cruise

Reason to CP: Diddy's naner game controls first part of the cruise, and should occupy the chain-grabbers until the rest of the stage. The constant moving stage means less time for IC's to finish their chaingrab, and they have little time to grab anyways, as you probably will be constantly jumping from platform to platform. Also, Nana is very prone to dying if seperated because of the constant stage moving. As for the last part of the stage; this seems to be the only time where you might be at a slight disadvantage/even situation. IC's thrive on flat stages, but Diddy does also and hopefully by the time this part of the stage appears either Nana has died, or you are a stock ahead.

 

[chimpact]

I would rather pick norfair because IC have a lot of shenanigans on RC. if you want to be gay, get the lead on battle field, get on the top platform, and just jump.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

Yoshi's Island - The best neutral in this match-up imo. I think you can have your way here, and plus any cg spike they do, you have an easier time to wall tech it and survive.

Battlefield - The next best neutral. I kind of like this better then Yoshi's because of stage preferences. Depending on how you play here you can use the platforms to your advantage.

PS1 - I think the stage transformations make it easier to avoid getting grabbed, and for the most part its flat with those to platforms, you can play well using the platforms and the transformations.

Norfair - If you're comfortable here, cp it. The platforms can mess up the cgs, there's the lava that can sometimes help, and you can run away and play gay

Frigate - The stage flips can help gimp their recovery, along with the one transformation without a side.

I don't think there are alot of stages that gives you a big stage advantage against ics, but heres my list/reasons

 

[TreK]

I usually cp Lylat, the slopes mess with cgs a lot. Slopes give them an even more annoying iceblock, but that's nothing diddy can't deal with.

 

[ChocoNaner]

Na mayne, BF is best neutral. ICs player wouldn't risk using the spike unless they wanted to look flashy.

Norfair is probably the best stage. Several platforms for you to camp on, you can jump from edge to edge, if you get grabbed on the lower 3 platforms there's a good chance lava will break the cg. Only problem here is it's going to be harder to get rid of Nana.

Brinstar is probably the second. Small, laval takes up the biggest part of the stage when it rises, it's very hard for ICs to cg here, they have to minimize movement if not risk screwing up the cg. Nanerz on the most upper platform will, again, force them to minimize movement if they can even grab without tripping first.

Third will go to Pirate Ship, or if it isn't legal, then Delfino. Water will make it hard to get rid of Nana but at the same time Diddy will be able to avoid being grabbed there, as well as the platforms and being able to go through the main platform. There are plenty of places where you can camp on Delfino too. On Pirate Ship, you have the water, the platforms, the catapult, the bombs, the twister/tornado thingy(really make it hard to cg, or do anything...), the rock the ship crashes into, and the other boat.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Why you shouldn't pick BF:

IC's U-air has insane priority and does really good damage. It really puts pressure on you from below when you're in the air or on platforms. They have desynch tricks here (blizzard seems to get a notable boost from the platforms and everything, double blizzard with Nana on a platform and Popo on the main stage might work, but I dunno) and they can still do their infinite chaingrab on the platforms.

IMO, all of the other neutrals are a better pick than BF.

 

[Player-1]

Alright, I updated it a bit.
here's my opinion:

CPs:

Final Destination
Smashville
Neutrals you feel comfortable on
Yoshi's Island
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Brinstar

Bans:
Norfair
Stages you don't feel comfortable on


Personally, there aren't really any STRONG CPS or Bans against ICs, everything I listed is just because of a few very small details of the stage.

Final Destination:- Flat stage gives you an easier time being more aggro in this matchup which is what you need to be.

Smashville-Same reasons for FD

Neutrals you feel comfortable on: The neutrals are really what you feel most comfortable on, each stage giving you and the ICs equal advantages and disadvantages. BF you can separate them a bit easier, but the platforms can catch the bananas on top of them which is worse in this matchup because nana is a ******* and rolls straight back into the banana after slipping on it sometimes. YI allows you to tech the wall easier if you can DI the spike if they spike you the slopes CAN mess with the CG too.

Jungle Japes: High ceilings so they have a harder time killing, both of their recoveries (up-b and side-b) get nerfed on here, you actually have a bit better of an advantage camping them on this stage.

Rainbow Cruise: Desynchs ICs and some of the slopes (pendulum) can mess with Ice blocks, it also nerfs both of their recoveries.

Pokemon Stadium: Transformations can mess with camping and CGs if they're in the middle of one. You can also tech the Usmash at the end of the CG if the transformation has a wall

Castle Siege:
1st transformation- you can tech the wall if they go for the spike, camping the upper part of the slope can hurt Ice blocks, it can also mess up CGs
2nd Transformation- High ceilings, and also the statues can mess with Ice block camping
3rd Transformaton- tilting of the stage can mess with ice blocks, other than that it's like FD

Delfino Plaza- Parts of the stage can desynch the ICs easier, and it has some slopes to mess with Ice blocks

Brinstar- Lava can interrupt CGs, slopes + some of those thingymobobbers that have hurtboxs can stop the ice blocks

Bans:

Norfair-The stage can help their recovery, it also gives them a smaller part of the stage so they might have a higher chance of getting the grab if you're both on the same platform. Uair juggling is also great on this stage. Only downfall is that Ice block camping can be less effectivng, but can also be buffed if their at the top platforms, and the lava can interrupt CGs

 

[DUB]

If I was Player-1 I would tell you to go straight to RC. However, thats just not me.

Neutrals - I have never like playing the Climbers on SV or FD. The IC's I play desynch blocks all dai and it makes a mini wall. You can get around it but it's annoying.

My favorite neutral and CP for this matchup is stadium 1. Pretty standard neutral if your comfortable with it. Stage changes will interfere with chanigrabs as well as alter angles of blizzards and ice blocks.


I wouldn't pick a stage against the climbers that was considered more vertical such as Norfair. If you get caught under them you are bound to catch some u-airs, and you can not compete with that move.

 

[ADHD]

YAY I get to comment on this! Right now we are a solid IC counter, or 60-40 (take that either way.) The thing about ice climbers that we can take massive advantage of is nana has a 6 frame or w/e delay on her movements, therefor we can easily shield pressure them into having nana trip. Once she is tripped, throw her offstage, wait for her jump or whatever you feel most comfortable doing then dair her and side b to grab the ledge. This takes practice, but it's crucial if you want to win. If they are camping ice blocks, who gives a ****, just hop over them and throw a banana at them, that will temporarily stop it. Banans also go through blizzard, so it's a free hit if they use that move on you. Fsmash is a godsend in this matchup, because they're so slippery that if they try shieldgrab you it will never work, plus they have a hard time dash grabbing the lag unlike most characters. You can just fsmash twice in a row if they try to do so.

The other funny thing is, our shield grab range is 2.5-3X greater than theirs; simply shield grab with CAREFUL TIMING if they are attempting to flat out grab you and toss one offstage. This very trick pisses ice climber mains off greatly, even though most characters can do this to them, when you play your cards right it will kill one every, single, time. The hard part is when they catch on to you wanting that bthrow or fthrow on nana, because if only one trips and you attempt to grab them, you will get fsmashed. It's better than getting grabbed, but if they do grab you in this scenario just mash out as quickly as possible.

We have literally an 80:20 matchup advantage on popo alone. He can't flat out do ****, but don't underestimate him. Camp him really hard, because he still has a chaingrab on us from 0-50 and it's pretty deadly. Even past that percentage, it's just a better idea to camp him in risk of getting fsmashed or grabbed by him. Popo can still do stuff without nana. GG ICs.

All neutrals are great for this matchup, you may want to ban ps1 against them.

 

[ANTi_]

^ Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.

 

[ADHD]

^ Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.

GET OUT OF THE DIDdY BOARDS U STUPID TROLL.

 

[ANTi_]

Why did you lowercase the d looks ******** now.

 

[Player-1]

ADHD this is stage discussion, not dumb match-up discussion.

You lost an 80-20 match-up scrub.

 

[Gnes]

WOW GET WRECKED!!!!

Somebody got too excited that they finally learned the matchup

 

[ADHD]

I put the stages

 

[FelixTrix]

PS1 and Lylat would be good bans imo just because they can recover every time with the tether, so they won't get screwed up by the ledges. I would probably just find a good neutral stage and camp the ledges like Battlefield or Smashville.

 

[TreK]

a simple z drop while nana is hanging on the ledge waiting for popo gives you both an edgeguard setup on popo and a free hit on nana, so ICs I know mostly use squall =/
that said, banana'ing a squall will make the 2nd climber freefall, but that's 1 chance out of two instead of a guaranteed thing

Diddy gimps ICs really well that's why I advice avoiding/banning Norfair, where you can't really gimp them. CP is really personnal choice ; mine is Lylat.

 

[Player-1]

I put the stages

but you had like 1 little short sentence about stages and then a whole 2 paragraphs about the match-up >.>

 

[Player-1]

So here's what I'm putting up soon for ICs:

-Neutrals:
1. FD
2. YI/SV
3.BF
4. Lylat

-PS1

-RC

Bans:

????

No one is really giving me any bans


I'd like people to look at my post again because I see some of these being good CPs that no one is agreeing with me (particularly japes)


CPs:

Final Destination
Smashville
Neutrals you feel comfortable on
Yoshi's Island
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Brinstar

Bans:
Norfair
Stages you don't feel comfortable on


Personally, there aren't really any STRONG CPS or Bans against ICs, everything I listed is just because of a few very small details of the stage.

Final Destination:- Flat stage gives you an easier time being more aggro in this matchup which is what you need to be.

Smashville-Same reasons for FD

Neutrals you feel comfortable on: The neutrals are really what you feel most comfortable on, each stage giving you and the ICs equal advantages and disadvantages. BF you can separate them a bit easier, but the platforms can catch the bananas on top of them which is worse in this matchup because nana is a ******* and rolls straight back into the banana after slipping on it sometimes. YI allows you to tech the wall easier if you can DI the spike if they spike you the slopes CAN mess with the CG too.

Jungle Japes: High ceilings so they have a harder time killing, both of their recoveries (up-b and side-b) get nerfed on here, you actually have a bit better of an advantage camping them on this stage.

Rainbow Cruise: Desynchs ICs and some of the slopes (pendulum) can mess with Ice blocks, it also nerfs both of their recoveries.

Pokemon Stadium: Transformations can mess with camping and CGs if they're in the middle of one. You can also tech the Usmash at the end of the CG if the transformation has a wall

Castle Siege:
1st transformation- you can tech the wall if they go for the spike, camping the upper part of the slope can hurt Ice blocks, it can also mess up CGs
2nd Transformation- High ceilings, and also the statues can mess with Ice block camping
3rd Transformaton- tilting of the stage can mess with ice blocks, other than that it's like FD

Delfino Plaza- Parts of the stage can desynch the ICs easier, and it has some slopes to mess with Ice blocks

Brinstar- Lava can interrupt CGs, slopes + some of those thingymobobbers that have hurtboxs can stop the ice blocks

Bans:

Norfair-The stage can help their recovery, it also gives them a smaller part of the stage so they might have a higher chance of getting the grab if you're both on the same platform. Uair juggling is also great on this stage. Only downfall is that Ice block camping can be less effectivng, but can also be buffed if their at the top platforms, and the lava can interrupt CGs

 

[Deez.]

I'm def practice that for Meep. thanks Wyatt. and agreed with Anti Nerd! lmao jk

 

[Player-1]

I'll be updating this as soon as I get my laptop back in 1 or 2 days.

 

[Player-1]

Alright, I finally updated this since I got my laptop back, even though they say they fixed it and guess what?!?!?! They sent it back with the same problems it was having, anyway this week's discussion is Kirby.

 

[DUB]

Neutrals are pretty even across the board between these two. If striking....pick your favorite or FD.



There's an obvious list of bans. Kirby is pretty good on any stage you put him but ban or be ready for RC/Brinstar/Norfair if you lose. Winning the 1st match and having a CP left incase of a 3rd game is really good to have. Try to play them on your best neutral first and save your CP. Kirby is deceptively good on Brinstar.

 

[TreK]

Ban Brinstar.
JJ is one of Diddy's good stage and it's Kirby's top 3 best, you can still win there
RC is one of Kirby's top 3 bests, but listen to P1 and you'll **** here.
But Brinstar, just ban it, or you're basically asking the Kirby "hey steal my money plz".

For CPs, I wouldn't know... Kirby is an aerial character so he's good everywhere, just pick your favorite stages (2nd best first, then your best, because if he adapts to you and you're forced to play somewhere you're not that good you're asking to get smashed at 90%)

 

[Gnes]

Diddy is not better than kirby on RC....or even close. Kirby is amazing there.

Take Kirby to wide stages/stages wit low ceilings.

 

[Player-1]

Diddy is not better than kirby on RC....or even close. Kirby is amazing there.

Take Kirby to wide stages/stages wit low ceilings.

as a character, no. But if you know the stage well then it can probably be close to even, that can go for any stage.